No, I'm questioning his choice of words. "Other people should not dictate how you act" is a pretty bold statement.
eh... nvm lol.
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Customers lying to businesses. Justifiable?
- Thread starter IHaveCandy
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No, I'm questioning his choice of words. "Other people should not dictate how you act" is a pretty bold statement.
eh... nvm lol.
IHaveCandy
Banned
The actions of others should not dictate how you act. If you feel stealing is wrong, you should not feel it is right just because others steal. This is simple. Come on.
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
Honesty aside, your friend sounds smart.
I'd agree that it the bit you highlighted wasn't stated in a very precise manner. I thought the underlying message came through, though. But, you're right. This probably isn't worth much more discussion.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Yeah, that sentence was simply saying "What others do shouldn't change what you do." I could have been extremely cliche and asked you if you'd jump off a bridge if everybody else was doing it.
If there was a reward and minimal risk to my wellbeing I probably would.
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
Back in the day you could return games you weren't satisfied with, like PS1 era. It's not like I didn't appreciate those days, I mean the prices of the games have not gone down since then.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I often hear people say its not wrong to keep change when accidentally given too much. Funny how people flip out when it's the opposite.
I once had a manager who was helping this guy who was a bit slow. I don't know if he was high or dumb, but he was definitely a bit off. The guy accidentally gives my manager a extra $20. My manager didn't tell him about him and let him leave. He deposited the extra $20. He said it was the customer's fault for not paying attention and that customers don't return extra change to us. Thankfully he was fired later for a different reason.
I'm sure most people would say he was wrong even if they are okay with keeping extra change. You can certainly say it was his job to return the money, but that is simply an occupational obligation. Even if the store owner was fine with keeping the $20, wouldn't you say he was wrong for doing that.
I once had a manager who was helping this guy who was a bit slow. I don't know if he was high or dumb, but he was definitely a bit off. The guy accidentally gives my manager a extra $20. My manager didn't tell him about him and let him leave. He deposited the extra $20. He said it was the customer's fault for not paying attention and that customers don't return extra change to us. Thankfully he was fired later for a different reason.
I'm sure most people would say he was wrong even if they are okay with keeping extra change. You can certainly say it was his job to return the money, but that is simply an occupational obligation. Even if the store owner was fine with keeping the $20, wouldn't you say he was wrong for doing that.
IHaveCandy
Banned
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
I had the ability to return games, the last time I was able to return that which I wasn't satisfied with was Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone for PC. Then, after that Wal-Mart no longer returned any games because you could copy them.
Over here, in Canada, games were always 59.99 or even the premium 69.99 (Conker's Bad Fur Day, Majora's Mask).
Snes games were $75 new.
Shit hasn't changed.
I just got an orange juice at dunkin donuts. It was 1.9x, I gave the cashier a 5, she was about to give me 8.0x back in change. I let her know before she even handed it out me because I'm not a scumbag. The idea that because they are trying to screw you over its okay for you to lie, steal and cheat is absurd.
scar tissue
Banned
.
Consumer vs (big) corporation is a dirty battle, I'll use any trick available to get ahead.
Only exception is Amazon, they're just too nice.
Shit like this is what gets me. ALL CORPORATIONS ARE EVIL, except this one that I conveniently like, until they do something I don't.
mclaren777
Member
So you're cool with things like insurance fraud?
It's called cognitive dissonance. Adjusting your values to fit your actions. If the actions of your friend had caused, say, firing of the employee, then your friend probably wouldn't justify his actions like that. That fits cognitive dissonance phenomenon that the farther one's actions (or results of one's actions) are from one's values, the less likely one is to engage in cognitive dissonance.
scar tissue
Banned
They're not all evil, but I'd be hard pressed to find a single big corporation that doesn't use dirty tricks, be it in advertising, production or wherever.
Hell, I'm sure Amazon has its own problems, I just like them for there very good support and lenient return policy. I feel that their excellent return policy should be rewarded, so I'm not going to abuse it.
Gamestop, OTOH, is the fuckin worst. They sell used games as new. Fuck gamestop.
But of they ever change that policy then it's okay to lie to get what you want.
scar tissue
Banned
I wouldn't take it to extremes, but yes, I might lie to them.
Not saying it's generally morally okay, just saying that I personally might do it.
It all comes down to what the business loses from the deceit. In the OP's example, the Gamestop that received the "defective" disc will claim it out and get credit back for it, and the Gamestop that took back the sealed game gets another copy in their inventory that is perfectly sale-able for full price. The OP's friend definitely isn't in the right by treating a retail purchase like a free rental and then bragging about it, but in the end, the business didn't really lose anything but an extra copy of the game to sit on their shelf for a few weeks. As far as screwing businesses goes, it's a very minor infraction, and GS is not blameless in it since they didn't follow their own policy by not opening the sealed game.
I'm sure retail businesses would *love* for their worst worry to be the occasional defective return that's not really defective, but that's still returnable for credit on their part. It's not ideal and it's not moral on the customer's part, but any retailer would gladly choose to take on more of those types of scams if it meant a reduction in folks outright stealing the offending items from 'em.
I'm sure retail businesses would *love* for their worst worry to be the occasional defective return that's not really defective, but that's still returnable for credit on their part. It's not ideal and it's not moral on the customer's part, but any retailer would gladly choose to take on more of those types of scams if it meant a reduction in folks outright stealing the offending items from 'em.
Then don't go there.
Scamming them only justifies them treating customers like shit.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Resident Evil 6 is $60 new and $55 used. They buy used copies for $25. Right now, they are making $30 profit on each used copy. Problem is, they don't stop taking copies of RE6 when they have dozens of non-selling copies in each store. The price of the game drops and they might start moving them faster. A year later, that same copy they have credit for $25 is now selling for $20. Now they are losing money. The fact that they buy more copies of a game that they could ever possibly sell means they need a high margin. Selling it to somebody who intends to play it will always get you a better deal. GameStop has to not only resell them, but ensure they are making enough profit throughout the lifetime of that inventory. Plus they offer plenty of ways to up your value. Last month, I traded in a dual shock 3 controller for $43.
adamsappel
Member
A couple of months ago I was at a liquor store and I bought a bottle of scotch that should have rung up at $55. It rang up as $15. I snuck a glance at the screen and it said it was a six-pack of Miller Lite. My hand was shaking as I paid with a $20. No, I don't need a bag! I high-tailed it out of there. Now, if the clerk had mistakenly given me $40 extra in change, I would have given that back, but an inventory mistake that they don't catch isn't my problem.
My supermarket used to have a policy that if something rang up at the incorrect price, they refunded the entire cost of the item. I would check sale tags to see if anything was out of date. Presto, free item. They also have self-check-out and it would be easy to simply not ring items up, but I don't do that.
The other day I bought something from REI that the shelf tag said was $8.99. It rang up at $9.99. I mentioned the discrepancy to the clerk. He said, "The computer says it's $9.99." A manager standing right there gave me the difference. I am making this purchase based on the price I see, the store should honor it. Inventory conflicts aren't my fault.
My supermarket used to have a policy that if something rang up at the incorrect price, they refunded the entire cost of the item. I would check sale tags to see if anything was out of date. Presto, free item. They also have self-check-out and it would be easy to simply not ring items up, but I don't do that.
The other day I bought something from REI that the shelf tag said was $8.99. It rang up at $9.99. I mentioned the discrepancy to the clerk. He said, "The computer says it's $9.99." A manager standing right there gave me the difference. I am making this purchase based on the price I see, the store should honor it. Inventory conflicts aren't my fault.
Not always the store's fault. Stupid customers will place items in the wrong spot on the shelves.
What if someone gets fired or needs to pay for the difference out of their own pocket?
IHaveCandy
Banned
The employee likely rang up the scotch wrong. I'd still say it was wrong of you to keep quiet about it. Though that gets into passive actions. I wouldn't justify it as okay to not correct something that is clearly a mistake. You are obviously not legally liable for those mistakes, but I believe people should do the right thing in these cases. Anything else is a compromise. I think we'd all agree the most proper thing to do is be honest about the mistake you noticed. I don't like the idea of merely being as honest as the world allow. I believe people should create a system of morals and stick to them.
DR2K
Banned
Which they'll go back and sell as new regardless.
Morality aside, all corporations plan on stuff like this and work it into their costs. Not like they're unprepared
Also about Insurance fraud have you ever gotten a letter from your insurance company saying "our fraud department has saved us millions so we are going to lower your rate."?
Its all worked into the price
Also about Insurance fraud have you ever gotten a letter from your insurance company saying "our fraud department has saved us millions so we are going to lower your rate."?
Its all worked into the price
IHaveCandy
Banned
No, they send it to a defective warehouse refurbishment center. It wont be sold as new. Regardless, this is simply justifying a wrongful act. "It's okay that I lied because in my eyes it did not hurt the person that much and they have a lot of money too" is not a legitimate excuse. It isn't even true that it doesn't cost them a lot. If most customers lie and trick their way out to get money and free stuff, their accumulative actions cost greatly.
So is shoplifting, but I don't see you advocating that.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I'm not really sure how that is supposed to change anything. The fact that they expect customers lying to cost them money doesn't really mean anything.
do you see me advocating anything? I'm just pointing out that they've prepared for it and the rest of us pay for said preparation
adamsappel
Member
I was trying to decide between two different items, so I frequently checked the tags. Definitely rang up incorrectly.
That's why I would correct someone giving me back the wrong change. That's something that would be reflected almost immediately and the assumption would be the clerk was stealing, instead of just stupid. I doubt the inventory between scotch and beer would ever be reconciled. Also, this is GAF. If someone made a thread about how they accidentally rang up a $55 bottle of scotch as a $15 twelve-pack of Miller Lite, 98% of the posts would be that they deserved to be fired.
I have a more malleable set of ethics, obviously. The clerk scanned the item and I paid the price he quoted me. My karma might be improved if I had pointed out the discrepancy, but I don't feel not doing so consigns me to hell.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Then why are you saying it? What is your point? That it doesn't hurt them? Just because it is an expected loss does not mean it doesn't hurt them.
Bingo.
This is what people don't understand. Every time you steal, scam, rip off, abuse, obfuscate, deter, lie, con, or do anything else that effects the bottom line of a business, you're only making it more difficult for other people that use that business.
I run a shoe store. I know when these high schools have their homecoming and prom dances. And every Monday or Tuesday after, I get these uppity soccer moms trying to return used shoes and say that they didn't wear them, I end up having to give them cash back and then lose the value of the shoes. Two months later? Same assholes are in the store bitching about how the price of shoes goes up year after year. Obviously it's largely to do with the economy, cost of product and overall quality of the dollar, but if we're taking losses on shit, guess where that money is going to be made up? Other customers.
travisbickle
Member
I bought a DS at target in the electronics dept. Gave them my bank card
and they processed (so I thought).
We had to get some other stuff checked out at the main register and I asked the
cashier if they needed to check the bag from the electronics dept. They did and we went home.
When I looked at the receipt from the electronics dept I saw that they charged me for a game I bought but not for the system itself.
Targets mistake my benenfit.
and they processed (so I thought).
We had to get some other stuff checked out at the main register and I asked the
cashier if they needed to check the bag from the electronics dept. They did and we went home.
When I looked at the receipt from the electronics dept I saw that they charged me for a game I bought but not for the system itself.
Targets mistake my benenfit.
UltimaPooh
Member
You could have a no return policy.
Beerman462
Member
How was anyone harmed in OPs example?
Store 1 exchanged an open game with an unopened game which is their policy(even if they are supposed to open it) so this store has the same result reguardless of what happens after the fact.
Store 2 paid full retail for an unopened game that they can turn around and sell at full retail. /shrug
True dirt bags use those fake 4chan coupons or return iPad boxes with pieces of wood in them.
Store 1 exchanged an open game with an unopened game which is their policy(even if they are supposed to open it) so this store has the same result reguardless of what happens after the fact.
Store 2 paid full retail for an unopened game that they can turn around and sell at full retail. /shrug
True dirt bags use those fake 4chan coupons or return iPad boxes with pieces of wood in them.
Some companies go out of their way to screw over their consumers for the sake of profits. I'd say it's reasonable to care only about your own benefit as much as they care about their own. Other companies bend over backwards to make their customers happy (even if it is for profits), and I'd say it's extremely unreasonable and petty to take advantage of that for your own benefit.
It's why I'd take advantage of Gamestop but never Amazon.
It's why I'd take advantage of Gamestop but never Amazon.
It sounds like he just took advantage of their policies. It's not like he bought ice cream cakes with a "free ice cream cakes for life" card and then had someone else return them for cash.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Store 1 has to send that copy out as a defective product. Defective product hurts a store's bottom line and performance. Loss Prevention keeps track of that stuff.
IHaveCandy
Banned
How many companies outright lie like customers do to get what they want? I don't mean sugarcoating facts or hyping a product more than most would think it is. I mean to outright lie about facts.
Insurance companies. When ever I've been sick they've tried to overcharge me/refuse to cover things they said they'd cover. It's always a 2 or 3 hour phone call to clear it up and 1 call never works. Keep in mind I've tried multiple companies as well, they're all shit the one I'm with right now is just the least shit.
You keep missing the point.
It's not the corporation that gets screwed. Effective companies are effective because they make sure they never get screwed. What I'm saying is that his actions hurt the customers, us and that's what he should feel bad about.
Now small business? Yeah he's hurting the business very much, but big business? They don't get screwed, they pass the buck onto the consumers, industries that can't collapse. So when you go to gamestop and get even less for a trade thank your buddy.
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