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Customers lying to businesses. Justifiable?

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IHaveCandy said:
Store 1 has to send that copy out as a defective product. Defective product hurts a store's bottom line and performance. Loss Prevention keeps track of that stuff.
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Ok, defective product part wasn't in the OP. I try to buy used from GameStop so I can return it in the 7 day window so I guess I was thinking along those lines. Still I wonder if they would send it in or just resell it. We all know they don't have a problem opening games and selling them as new.

GameStop intentionally removing Deux Onlive Coupons
 
Seth C said:
It's GameStop, and to them an open game is still a new game. So why not even up the playing field?
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I buy all my new games from GameStop and I have yet to buy a new game that was opened already. I have heard of this happening, and that really sucks. Luckily the store near me doesn't do this.
 
IHaveCandy said:
A business is not screwing you over by not giving you an offer you don't like. If you don't like it, don't do business with them. That is not the same as lying to you. Businesses do not often lie outright. From a legal standpoint, they would be at a huge liability if they do. Customers tend to complain about businesses not offering them what they want or giving them the service they want at the price they want. Then go elsewhere, don't lie.
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I never said they were screwing you by doing that...?

There are plenty of scummy businesses with bullshit loopholes that treat their own employees like ass. That's what I'm talking about, not a "bad deal".
 
Gamer @ Heart said:
Can some of you share stories of catching customers in a lie? I love those.
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I work insurance claims so it happens on an almost daily basis. Lying to your insurance company is not a wise life choice. That includes faking or exaggerating injuries.
 
ronito said:
You keep missing the point.
It's not the corporation that gets screwed. Effective companies are effective because they make sure they never get screwed. What I'm saying is that his actions hurt the customers, us and that's what he should feel bad about.

Now small business? Yeah he's hurting the business very much, but big business? They don't get screwed, they pass the buck onto the consumers, industries that can't collapse. So when you go to gamestop and get even less for a trade thank your buddy.
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I see, so big companies don't ever get screwed, ever, no matter how many times customers lie. Lying customers only hurt honest customers and the company never loses any real money because the company already deemed it lost dollars from the start.


This is crazy talk.
 
I've seen it from first hand experience. Nothing about the company policies screws over employees. Though you will always have douchey managers that screw over employees. That isn't GameStop though because they would be reprimanded if caught.
 
IHaveCandy said:
I see, so big companies don't ever get screwed, ever, no matter how many times customers lie. Lying customers only hurt honest customers and the company never loses any real money because the company already deemed it lost dollars from the start.


This is crazy talk.
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You didn't listen at all did you?
But hey, don't let me get in the way of your indignation. That's important.
 
Isn't there a school of thought that basically goes: If I fool you then you are at fault for letting me do so hence you are the true evil for allowing me to go down the wrong path. By feeling offended by my fooling you, you reveal your hypocritical nature of allowing people to make mistakes you simply absolved yourself of using your lack of vigilance as an excuse. It's as though you willingly closed your eyes to reap the opportunity to place yourself on a high moral artifice to look down on your fellow man. It minimum, you are reckless but one can go as far as to say you have a God complex.
 
yn-neko hates a cat said:
Isn't there a school of thought that basically goes: If I fool you then you are at fault for letting me do so hence you are the true evil for allowing me to go down the wrong path. By feeling offended by my fooling you, you reveal your hypocritical nature of allowing people to make mistakes you simply absolved yourself of using your lack of vigilance as an excuse. It's as though you willingly closed your eyes to reap the opportunity to place yourself on a high moral artifice to look down on your fellow man. It minimum, you are reckless but one can go as far as to say you have a God complex.
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That's one crazy school of thought.
 
I'm hardly a paragon of morality. If I can lie to my benefit and get away with it, I'll do so.

Some businesses I might be honest with, some I might try to screw over. Depends on my experiences with the business in the past. I like the guys at my local Gamestop and wouldn't try to intentionally rip them off. Walmart, on the other hand? All bets are off.

But really, it's not something I have to think about often.
 
I just really don't like the whole "Well, I like these guys. So I won't lie and trick them. I'm not naive and realize the world is filled with people that do all sorts of things I'd consider wrong, and that these sort of things are on the low end on any "wrong list" I'd make. I guess what bugs me the most is the complacency of it. It's so casual. Steal from a store? That's blatantly wrong! Lie and trick your way out of some cash you didn't deserve? That's different! I'm just trying to get what I can get because they'd screw me over too!
 
What he did was messed up and I wouldn't do it but I think you just care more than most about Gamestop getting tricked into giving a game out because his copy was technically "used." They check the discs after they get them back, if everything is in good condition they'll just sell it back as new anyway.
 
Ive done way more ethically questionable things in regards to this than the OPs friend. Just taking advantage of holes in the system... The system that the stores put in place, not the customer. But if those policies were actually hurting the store, they would get rid of them dont ya think.
 
IHaveCandy said:
I had an argument with a couple of friends of mine today. My friend bought Borderlands 2 and didn't like it. He couldn't return it, so he exchanged it at one GameStop, and returned it at another since the employee did not keep the old receipt and didn't open the game.
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Am I the only one confused about what actually happened?

He bought the game, opened the seal, played it, then tried to return it. He couldn't, because he'd opened it, but they let him swap it for something else (?), which he then returned at another store? If he couldn't return it, then how did he exchange it?

Anyway, I do this kind of thing all the time, as long as it's a big chain who rip you off anyway. I'd never do it to a small indie store.
 
Devolution said:
What he did was messed up and I wouldn't do it but I think you just care more than most about Gamestop getting tricked into giving a game out because his copy was technically "used." They check the discs after they get them back, if everything is in good condition they'll just sell it back as new anyway.
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They don't. It's labeled defective and goes to the warehouse.
 
IHaveCandy said:
They don't. It's labeled defective and goes to the warehouse.
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Is it eventually tested and sold? If it's returned as defective, why doesn't the manager just snap it in half? What is your primary concern, that a business loses money (certainly Gamestop has policies in place that this is not how it works out--and no, a clerk is not privy to those) or a person is compromising what should be a universal moral creed: do not steal?

Too many of us have played "new" games from Gamestop that have fingerprints on the disk or gamesaves on the cart to have much sympathy for the company.
 
adamsappel said:
Is it eventually tested and sold? If it's returned as defective, why doesn't the manager just snap it in half? What is your primary concern, that a business loses money (certainly Gamestop has policies in place that this is not how it works out--and no, a clerk is not privy to those) or a person is compromising what should be a universal moral creed: do not steal?

Too many of us have played "new" games from Gamestop that have fingerprints on the disk or gamesaves on the cart to have much sympathy for the company.
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Because corporate does it. It prints out a sticker that says field destroy and corporate comes and collects them every so often.

And fingerprints doesn't mean it's used and again you're confusing shitty managers with some sort of company policy. I know it makes you feel better by pretending they're told to by home office but they're not.
 
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
Because corporate does it. It prints out a sticker that says field destroy and corporate comes and collects them every so often.

And fingerprints doesn't mean it's used and again you're confusing shitty managers with some sort of company policy. I know it makes you feel better by pretending they're told to by home office but they're not.
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Yeah if a corp did that they're just throwing away money.
Most, if not all, of the big corps take in defects run them through the same QA process they would for a regular product and if it passes it goes into new packaging and off it goes again. Unless you've got a monster of a retailer that just destroys the stuff and bills the manufacturer and they wont argue because they need their shelf space. If you're a big enough player you can get them to send the stuff back to you (at your cost of course) and they just do the above.

For electronics they'll probably replace a bad part, label it as "refurbished" cut the price 30% and off it goes.

Most companies try like mad to not take a 100% loss on "defect" returns because they know that many times there's just nothing wrong other than the consumer.
 
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
Because corporate does it. It prints out a sticker that says field destroy and corporate comes and collects them every so often.

And fingerprints doesn't mean it's used and again you're confusing shitty managers with some sort of company policy. I know it makes you feel better by pretending they're told to by home office but they're not.
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So every game that is returned as being defective is destroyed and doesn't enter the retail chain in any form? That's good policy, and good to know.

The whole "employee check-out" thing was just a spontaneous idea thought up by random managers scattered across the US and not official company policy? And, you are agreeing that employees playing games and selling them as new is "shitty," right?
 
Do you guys think shipping and testing product to a warehouse is free? It's all a cost. Plus, more and more games are packaged with a one time use code.
 
ITT:we pretend we know what gamestop does with defective products.

you know they have funds to protect them from scams like this.

//
the employee messed him. he should of gutted the new copy to prevent it getting returned.
 
IHaveCandy said:
Do you guys think shipping and testing product to a warehouse is free? It's all a cost. Plus, more and more games are packaged with a one time use code.
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Do you really think they pay for all that shipping? You know those same trucks that drop off the product and have to head back to the warehouse can also pick up product and take it back on that same trip they would've had to have made. You don't have to hire another Q&A team, you have to do QA anyway. Sure they're doing a fraction more work but if said fraction cuts your loss by more than it costs to staff the team more power to you.

I really don't get why you even made a thread.
You get all indignant about how all this happens.
Several people who have quite a lot of experience in RMAs and defects have pointed out that companies account for this and detail how it works.
And you come back with "But I'm indignant!"

Is it justifiable? no. But companies don't care if it is or isn't. They plan for it anyway and there's a whole industry setup around RMAs and defects and a slew of consulting firms that do nothing but help businesses plan for just this. It's a reality of business. You can be indignant all you want. But the companies have stopped caring long ago and have dealt with it.
 
ronito said:
Do you really think they pay for all that shipping? You know those same trucks that drop off the product and have to head back to the warehouse can also pick up product and take it back on that same trip they would've had to have made. You don't have to hire another Q&A team, you have to do QA anyway. Sure they're doing a fraction more work but if said fraction cuts your loss by more than it costs to staff the team more power to you.

I really don't get why you even made a thread.
You get all indignant about how all this happens.
Several people who have quite a lot of experience in RMAs and defects have pointed out that companies account for this and detail how it works.
And you come back with "But I'm indignant!"

Is it justifiable? no. But companies don't care if it is or isn't. They plan for it anyway and there's a whole industry setup around RMAs and defects and a slew of consulting firms that do nothing but help businesses plan for just this. It's a reality of business. You can be indignant all you want. But the companies have stopped caring long ago and have dealt with it.
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This thread isn't just about ripping off GameStop. They are an example. This is about lying customers. And bringing up the fact that they plan for theft and lying customers mean absolutely nothing. It is completely pointless to make. It contributes absolutely nothing.
 
Fuck it. Live and let live when it comes to stuff like this.
There are better things to do than be Jiminy Cricket on people's shoulders with stuff in stores.
 
Just answering to the thread title:

Corporates incur additional costs when customers lie. In order to avoid this cost, they will put measures in place to catch cheaters and liers. These measures themselves are not free. The cost of these measures (catching cheaters) will be transferred to -all- customers.

So at the end of the day it is customers the get hurt.
 
IHaveCandy said:
This thread isn't just about ripping off GameStop. They are an example. This is about lying customers. And bringing up the fact that they plan for theft and lying customers mean absolutely nothing. It is completely pointless to make. It contributes absolutely nothing.
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So, "Stop trying to teach me shit. I'm pissed!"

Got it.
 
It's a 10 cent disk to be honest, they can make masses if they wanted too. Nobody here was harmed.
 
ronito said:
So, "Stop trying to teach me shit. I'm pissed!"

Got it.
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I live in a bad neighborhood where break-ins are common, and I get an alarm system that deters most, but not all, break-ins. Does that mean if I get only one break-in, while everybody else gets tons for my entire life, that break-in was not a cost to me?
 
IHaveCandy said:
I live in a bad neighborhood where break-ins are common, and I get an alarm system that deters most, but not all, break-ins. Does that mean if I get only one break-in, while everybody else gets tons for my entire life, that break-in was not a cost to me?
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Oh so this happens only once to gamestop? Because, you know, my whole point is that they deal with this all the time and have complex systems to deal with it and pass the cost on to consumers so in the end your friend is screwing everyone and not the company. A more apropos metaphor would be:

I live in a bad neighborhood. I get robbed several times a week. I have a system set up where I track what I've lost and then I alter the amount I pay to my landlord based on my costs to replace what I've lost. That would've been a good metaphor. But that would of course would require you to actually read what I wrote and comprehend it.
 
No it doesn't because it assumes what GameStop would and would not charged based on their costs. Costs only decide a portion of the prices. Customer demand has a much higher impact. Companies aim to maximize profits, not just ensure they are above a certain threshold. So if every customer was an honest saint, that doesn't necessarily mean GameStop would sell used games for less than $55. They charge what the market bares. As it is now, $55 is a successful pricing model.
 
IHaveCandy said:
No it doesn't because it assumes what GameStop would and would not charged based on their costs. Costs only decide a portion of the prices. Customer demand has a much higher impact. Companies aim to maximize profits, not just ensure they are above a certain threshold. So if every customer was an honest saint, that doesn't necessarily mean GameStop would sell used games for less than $55. They charge what the market bares. As it is now, $55 is a successful pricing model.
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I have to ask. Do you know anything about RMA business? Honestly? Because if someone returns a product as defective it's the manufacturer who pays not the retailer (unless you're a small business or working on a consignment model, neither of which gamestop is). I think you have a fundamental disconnect with how you'd like to envision it works and how it does.
 
ronito said:
I have to ask. Do you know anything about RMA business? Honestly? Because if someone returns a product as defective it's the manufacturer who pays not the retailer (unless you're a small business or working on a consignment model, neither of which gamestop is). I think you have a fundamental disconnect with how you'd like to envision it works and how it does.
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Even if you are 100% correct on that, the business that takes the hit on that return is still being hurt. You are acting as if I am saying lying and cheating to GameStop is wrong because it hurts GameStop. That is not my argument. I am talking about lying to ANY company to trick your way into getting what you want is wrong. I'm not interested in what the business does wrong or how they prepare for being wronged by customers. I am not going to justify an act just because a business might also be dirty or able to recover from it. That just means both of them are in the wrong.

Since so many people here have some hatred of GameStop that I find to be somewhat irrational, I'll use another example. A dad and his 13 year old son go to a buffet. Adult prices start at ages 12 and up. The dad lies and says his son is only 11 to get the children's price. This happens all of the time and exploits a buffet's trust in the customer.
 
Gamestop does not behave honorably, nor do their business practices exhibit goodwill towards their customers, so really what he did was not wrong. It's justified and more of an example of what goes around comes around type of thing...And this isn't a 2 wrongs don't make a right type of thing, it's more like 1000's of wrongs on the part of Gamestop do make your friend's single action a right.
 
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