Phoenix
Member
That would be a false equivalence as many countries have a national curriculum that includes many of the core tenets of common core.
It can tell you what is and what is probable - unless you just don't believe in distributions.
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Dad writes check to child's school using Common Core
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That would be a false equivalence as many countries have a national curriculum that includes many of the core tenets of common core.
It can tell you what is and what is probable - unless you just don't believe in distributions.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
To be honest Common Core teaches something that i didn't learn until college, Subtraction doesn't exist, there is only the addition of opposites
...which we call subtraction. Is Common Core teaching too that East doesn't exist, only another form of West?
Omegasquash
Member
Direct assistance with homework is one thing, but making sure that they have food, time, rest, etc, is just as helpful. Interaction with children, asking them honest questions about what the parent is seeing and not understanding has an incredible effect.
Not saying that I can look at some of these questions and not scratch a hold in my head, but there are more ways to help than one. I have to say that you make a fair point, as I can easily imagine frustration being the initial reaction to seeing what you perceive to be a simple problem presented as anything but.
Asian countries have their own boatload of problems with regard to education, even if it has enabled them to perform well on one particular standardized test administered by some organization.
America seems to hold its own in terms of technology (Apple, Microsoft, Tesla, wat wat) even though they don't seem to be killing themselves in terms of workload during highschool.
I am proposing hat we take the data and say "we need to do a better job teaching how he traditional methods of arithmetic work". You can get that result from the statistics. Earlier, you were assuming that the data implies that the traditional method cannot teach how math works because it statistically is representative that it has not been doing so for too many students.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
4 - 2 =/= 2 - 4
4 - 2 = -2 + 4
Subtraction doesn't exist breh. y - x is just short hand for y + -(x). Same as division doesn't exist, only the multiplication of reciprocals.
PdotMichael
Banned
Now I want to see some examples and some of the statistics.
Please explain that with me losing a bunch of apples, because I'm so clumsy.
shinobi602
Member
First time I've seen this...."common core"? Looks a little frustrating for no reason.
Glad I finished school when I did lol.
Glad I finished school when I did lol.
I see no issue in teaching children alternative ways of visually math. Teaching children how to learn and how matg works seems very valuable.
The issue is in TESTING children on these individual methods. Children should be able to use whatever method they feel most comfortable with.
The issue is in TESTING children on these individual methods. Children should be able to use whatever method they feel most comfortable with.
PdotMichael
Banned
That's bullshit, what you mean that subraction is one of the inverse operations like division or exponentiation. What next? The wide field of inverse functions doesn't exist?
onadesertedisland
Member
I'd say another significant problem with common core math is that many elementary teachers are poor at math and are even worse at teaching math.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
you learn to do this by learning place value and wrote memorization + practice
You hire engineers at the end of high school in the US?
My girlfriend is going to teach math so I see some of this Common Core stuff once and a while and to people like me who learned it the old way it is kind of confusing. But in reality when she breaks some of the stuff down it makes more sense in explaining why it works and the reasons behind it. I feel like it's harder to grasp when you're older and just understand that 2-(-2) =4. Not whatever CC way would teach it.
That's great, but I'll bet a hefty sum your experience was not the norm for most people. Either that, or they're misremembering.
This paragraph betrays a lack of understanding of what Common Core actually is.
Common Core is a performance standard. It tells us, "By such-and-such a grade level, a student should have such-and-such skills." It does not command teachers to adhere rigidly to one method of solving problems.
The new methods that are catching so much hate are part of curricula developed by teachers to help students better reach the learning goals set forth in Common Core. They are not mandatory, and in fact as I understand it, teaching various methods of approaching the same problem is more of a part of classwork now than it was in the past. Old methods are still taught alongside new ones. Students aren't having their creativity "stifled" as you say; they are simply being shown methods that are easier to apply to more advanced concepts later in life.
You're also arguing what amounts to a false equivalency between the old and new methods of teaching math, where "one's just as good as the other and who's to say what's better?" But there's a lot of evidence that the old ways are, in fact, inferior, and that a lot of kids simply aren't able to carry it over and move on to more challenging concepts in later years.
Bottom line: These new methods don't suck for the kids, they suck for the adults trying to help the kids, who in most cases haven't immersed themselves in these concepts in decades. But they aren't the ones who matter most here.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
What I don't understand is how would anyone know what numbers to fill in to bridge the gaps between 87 and 243 in the image you posted.
If they knew intuitively that the difference between 90 and 87 is 3, and that the difference between 243 and 200 is 43, then it's not a great deal more effort to simply "know" what 243 - 87 is without having to draw out some ridiculous diagram.
I thought the point was to teach children alternate methods to solving math problems? Doesn't forcing them unto one standard method defeat the purpose of Common Core math? Isn't that supposed to be the problem with times tables or route memorization -- it's one solution to doing math and it's not ideal for most kids. It seems to me like we are trading one problem for another, different one.
PdotMichael
Banned
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
that isn't because of their HS math class... and many of those companies have people from foreign companies working on visas.
The problem isn't Common Core itself, it's the overly complicated lesson plans and materials that the textbook industry has released as a response to it. They saw CC as an opportunity to dupe school boards into thinking that these new, unproven teaching methods were somehow being specifically prescribed to them from on high. They went as far as to put the words "Common Core" on worksheets and homework, as if to say "if you don't teach it this way, you're violating the law." It's a scam, netting them billions, since the old text books are now "invalid".
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
In the opinion of the author of that article, the dad was wrong because he failed to understand the material and complained about it instead, as was illustrated by his random patterns of circles, boxes and x marks that demonstrated his lack of understanding of common core. It could be said that that was his point, but his point is demonstrably false. Plenty of people understand how those shapes work to illustrate math.
Corronchilejano
Member
That's a good explanation. Now, does it work?
And_Gignac
Member
The ANGER that Common Core creates with older generations is amazing.
Omegasquash
Member
We were always taught that the world was flat, you see.
King Gilga
Member
I dunno why they even bother teaching kids this shit.
I just use a calculator for everything.
I just use a calculator for everything.
The issue is that our schooling sucks ass.
Parents complain because we are the ones helping our kids with their homework. I spend about an hour a day working with my kids on their homework, specifically math.
Having to unpack a different teaching method and reexplain it in a way that wasn't how we learned is more difficult than just teaching the same method we were taught when we were kids.
Teachers are not doing a sufficient job of teaching these new methods of math, therefore it falls to the parent to fill in the gaps.
The method isn't better if I have to spend more time tutoring them and helping them with homework.
Parents complain because we are the ones helping our kids with their homework. I spend about an hour a day working with my kids on their homework, specifically math.
Having to unpack a different teaching method and reexplain it in a way that wasn't how we learned is more difficult than just teaching the same method we were taught when we were kids.
Teachers are not doing a sufficient job of teaching these new methods of math, therefore it falls to the parent to fill in the gaps.
The method isn't better if I have to spend more time tutoring them and helping them with homework.
Krauser Kat
Member
I have the same opinion. even though most people here are 20s to 40s we are like the old man yelling at the cloud.
That works great until you run out of people who know how to build calculators and other computers, which requires math, which requires kids learning math.
What am I looking at? Four tens? Those aren't numbers, those are pies! You don't expect my kid to bake a ton of pies each time he has to do math. I'm a 23 year old law graduate with an IQ of 155 and I can't even figure this shit out. Common core is out of control, terrible is right.
I heard they had some new crazy way of teaching times tables too that I can't even begin to comprehend. I get teaching the basics of how something works but that is what word problems were always for at this low of a level math. You have 4 apples. Johnny takes 3. How many apples do you have? 4-3 = 1. This drives me insane as a masters of ECE with a minor in probabilistic mathematics. You can only go so basic before it starts becoming more complicated again.
I wish people would quit with this "I'm a [educated person with a background unrelated to mathematics] and even I can't figure this out!" nonsense.
Having an unrelated degree doesn't make you an expert on math or anything else unrelated to your field; nor does having a high IQ. And certainly neither of those things inoculates anyone against closed-mindedness toward new concepts.
I really think it depends on the kid. Some kids will probably learn CC just fine. Others will struggle with it. My kids were taught Singapore Math (not sure how it compares to CC), and they hated it. Now they use a program called Math U See, and it's fantastic. It really clicks with them in a way that Singapore never did. Honestly, I wish I had learned math this way, I would have liked it far more than I did. I'm actually considering taking their calculus course, in all that spare time I have.
birthday-suit
Banned
A lot of the people here throwing up there hands and saying common core is stupid!
Would call other people stupid if they got frustrated like that over regular math and blamed the concept.
And the parent who wrote that letter to Jack petty and is not doing his child any favors...imagine if you did that at work because you didn't like a new system that was implemented.
Would call other people stupid if they got frustrated like that over regular math and blamed the concept.
And the parent who wrote that letter to Jack petty and is not doing his child any favors...imagine if you did that at work because you didn't like a new system that was implemented.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
That's not a good mentality for a teacher to have...
NinjaMouse
Member
What am I looking at? Four tens? Those aren't numbers, those are pies! You don't expect my kid to bake a ton of pies each time he has to do math. I'm a 23 year old law graduate with an IQ of 155 and I can't even figure this shit out. Common core is out of control, terrible is right.
No, no...he gave negative forty cakes. He didn't take any.
cubicle47b
Member
Haha.
Yeah, that's what I meant. Denying the existence of subtraction is just silly.
The phrasing was weird, but the underlying concept wasn't wrong. Subtraction and adding negative numbers are just two ways of looking at the same thing.
Yes, but the poster didn't present it as another way to look at it, at which point I would've agreed, he straight-up claimed that subtraction doesn't exists. And if that's what Common Core teaches, it's downright stupid. As my apples and Luthor's cakes show, there is important practical use for subtraction. You don't add negative money to your wallet, you subtracting money from it.
Idk. I think the top test scores should be reserved to the students who have proven they've mastered the concept to the point that they can demonstrate it in every context, not just a context they're comfortable with.
This is inevitably what happens in college. In engineering, once they taught us a concept, professors had no problem throwing a problem on a test that was something we had never seen before and were not comfortable with. They were looking for the students they knew the concept well enough to apply it perfectly in a new way. Underneath actual knowledge creation, this is the ultimate demonstration of knowledge learning.
Joel Was Right
If you smell burning, it's probably the generators acting up. Report it anyway.
Obviously, I couldn't read it.
Bonus - A parent fills out their child's homework:
Business Insider article about these and other criticisms of Common Core changing the way math is taught:
http://www.businessinsider.com/dad-writes-hilarious-common-core-check-2015-9
The Column Method the father uses is the correct version.
However,
The Number Line Method the school is using has a purpose. It is used primarily to introduce, and reinforce, children's understanding of number bonds. For instance, 95 + 6 is not 01, but rather 101.
The Column Method is ideal for written calculations, however without a strong understanding of the Number Line method (number bonds), children suffer with mental arithmetic.
The father should have spoken to the class teacher about his concerns or reviewed the school's maths policy document.
Understanding this fact from these two angles is an example of how crucial it is to try to understand something many different ways, not just from a convenient algorithm.
I feel like I "learned" what a derivative was in a new way every semester out of 5 years of college, to where now it is such an intuitive physical and mathematical concept to me that I could explain it to a kindergartener or use it to solve a complex engineering problem. All sides of the spectrum because of the rigor in angles I had to consider my understanding of the concept.
Another example is the quotient rule and the product and chain rule of derivatives. Either algorithm will get you the same answer, so why is that? I prefer product and chain rules, but I had to complete several problems where I used each method including the definition of a derivative to get the same answer. Did this long ass work suck? Yes, but it was crucial to my understanding. I see now why they are all connected and all the same.
FinalStageBoss
Banned
lmao common core is bullshit
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