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[Respect]

Searched, didn't see a thread, wanted to get Souls-GAF thoughts and felt it needed more than just a post in the OT thread.

Demon's started with a mana bar, but with 99 spices in your inventory, you could just stock up and use spells pretty frequently.

Dark Souls came out and introduced the spell use system. No more mana bar, just a set number of uses. You could stack the same spell to get more uses, but you were fairly limited in the number of spells you could cast per bonfire rest. Wasn't much different in Dark Souls 2, they added a few items to refill uses and attunement would give you more casts at certain break points, but was still very similar to DS1.

Now in Dark Souls 3, they went back to the mana bar (Focus Points) but you are limited by the amout of ashen estus you allocate, and this sacrifices your amount of estus heals.

First play through was a melee character, now going through as a more caster focused. I think I like the trade off between healing and more FP, though at times I do miss the use system. Think in the end I prefer the FP system.

Which do you prefer? Use or the DS3 FP system?

 

[Lumination]

I think I liked the use system because spells could be balanced by exactly how many times you could use it per slot, rather than some arbitrary amount of MP.

I don't mind the Ashen Estus though. Seems like a fair tradeoff.

 

[Romars202129]

Prefer the use system, personally. Managing a mana bar feels restricting. Like, I can't use this spell, cause I'm gonna need to use this one later.

 

[KittenMaster]

I think they added FP so that melee characters would have a reason to raise attunement, but IMO I always felt the original Attunement system was pretty elegant, they just needed to do a better job balancing the spell strength and the costs, and in Dark Souls 3 most melee weapon skills don't seem like they justify having an MP cost even if it's a fairly small one.

 

[ponpo]

I like the FP bar. Being able to sacrifice HP and HP Estus in order to have a huge bar and lots of refills is nice.

 

[Bl@de]

Demon's Souls was the best for magic. Mana bar with consumables like Bloodborne

 

[Respect]

I think they added FP so that melee characters would have a reason to raise attunement, but IMO I always felt the original Attunement system was pretty elegant, they just needed to do a better job balancing the spell strength and the costs, and in Dark Souls 3 most melee weapon skills don't seem like they justify having an MP cost even if it's a fairly small one.

Yes, I tend to think it was added to force melee users to invest more in attunement if they wanted to cast. I know pyro + melee was extremely strong in both DS1 & DS2. Though the non-existent int/faith requirements for using pyromancy added to that as well.

 

[Krusenstern]

I think that the FP system is the best one so far. Demon's mana refill via spice made magic somewhat overpowered and with Dark's limited spell uses magic went a bit backwards and was no ideal solution either.

The new FP system feels more balanced and Ashen/Estus allocations also brought some depth to it as well.

 

[Afrodium]

My DS3 character is not a caster but I imagine that the combination of fast enemies + slow casting + less healing Estus flasks makes magic builds very frustrating.

 

[silva1991]

I prefer the FP system. it's like DeS, but with no infinite magic casting.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

I think the FP bar and Ashen system really sucks if you're starting a fresh new game. Early on it feels so restricting because you need to invest in DEX, INT, ATN instead of VIG and END. At least that's how I approached it wanting to min/max my capabilities as a sorceror. But once you have enough ATN for a a nice big FP bar and have enough shards to give you a good amount of healing estus and ashen, it becomes a lot better.

Its nice not having to take up an attunement slot with a duplicate just to have more casts. On the other hand, Great Heavy Soul Arrow and Farron Flashsword are really the only sorceries I feel like I have to use. And even then I don't use flashsword that much when I have the moonlight greatsword.

 

[StrangeTaco]

I kinda like the FP system but they need to adjust the casting speed, damage, and FP costs of the spells. Seems like magic is still really geared towards the slower combat of DS1/2, that in addition to the scaling changes with INT and FTH make caster builds.... less than appealing.

Edit: Though I think the upcoming patch has some balancing changes for magic so hopefully that'll get things where they need to be.

 

[Romars202129]

My DS3 character is not a caster but I imagine that the combination of fast enemies + slow casting + less healing Estus flasks makes magic builds very frustrating.

From what I can tell, magic people actually love it. But if you just want to do a little magic on the side you're kinda screwed now.

 

[Mr_Appleby]

I think FP is probably my favourite actually, since it forces you to balance healing and casting to suit. Also weapons skills using FP is imo better than durability since you could just stack repair powders before. Now you have a firm limit but aren't left with a broken weapon.

 

[RevenWolf]

I like the FP system in DS3.

However I still feel that magic needs a bump to damage considering the game introduced lots of drawbacks to it.

1. Enemies are faster, your casting speed is slightly faster but many feel not fast enough.
2. Ashen flask use means giving up on some of your estus heals which for a pure mage can kinda suck.

I feel if they bump damage a little (or keep late game damage the same but bump early game scaling a bit) it would make being a mage more worth it.

Atm it just seems that the disadvantages outweigh the advantage (not by a lot), so it would be nice if they bumped it up a tad.

 

[M0nochromatic]

It makes magic feel even more underpowered. Having to trade out health for a limited attack resource just doesn't feel worth it. If the magic was fast, powerful, or varied, it would be a great balancer, but magic isn't those things.

 

[RevenWolf]

It makes magic feel even more underpowered. Having to trade out health for a limited attack resource just doesn't feel worth it. If the magic was fast, powerful, or varied, it would be a great balancer, but magic isn't those things.

Pretty much my thoughts, the speed can stay the same if they want (as that would be really hard to balance) but boosting damage would fix alot of problems, and more variety would be a cherry on top.

 

[Zombegoast]

The FP bar. If you wanted to have more spell uses, you had to use up a Attunement Slot

 

[Spainkiller]

The FP bar sucks, because it almost makes it impossible to do a sorcery-only run, especially in the early game. Trading estus for more mana? Damn, that leaves an already fragile caster without his healing items. It's plain cruel. Some bosses need so many soul arrows to bring down that you might run out of mana even if you switch ALL of your estus to ashen estus.

That said: it's fine if you're using a melee weapon to complement sorceries. But sorcery-only? Good fucking luck.

Naturally, because I'm a masochist and I needed a proper challenge, that's exactly what I'm doing right now: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAsA-S3mIEsatY0iGr502Xk1os-fHOCh7

But I just got to Irithyll and only just now is the game allowing me a little bit of breathing room. The Greatwood, Crystal Sage and the Deacons especially were hellish without melee weapons (ironically they were the easiest bosses if you went melee).

 

[UmbraeCruxis]

Love the FP system. Makes Attunement useful for everyone, and the dynamic between ashen and regular is pretty awesome imo. People may say that it hurts sorcery only runs, but I found it hard already to do sorcery only runs in previous games, so mixing it up with a sword felt like the same as you had to do before. Anyway, I'm really digging this system.

 

[Toxi]

I've been really disappointed with the damage of offensive miracles. Giving up healing Estus for Ashen Estus is a pretty bit trade-off, and yet Lightning Spear does compable damage to my unupgraded bow.

 

[Zafir]

I think I preferred the Demon's Souls system if I had to choose.

That all said, I'm not much of a magic user in Soulsborne games. Melee is just too fun.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

FP is a particularly brilliant fourth option between the Mana system of Demon's and the Vancian system of Dark 1&2 without being nearly neither like BB.

It also helps you don't 2 shot trash mobs and enemies ain't bum-rushing you for casting "out of turn". Keeps it spirited.

 

[Demoskinos]

My DS3 character is not a caster but I imagine that the combination of fast enemies + slow casting + less healing Estus flasks makes magic builds very frustrating.

There are plenty of rings to help mitigate fp usage, cast time ect... being a pure mage in DS3 is very viable.

 

[neoism]

ds2 did it best!

 

[aeolist]

in 50 hours of playing i've barely seen anyone use magic much less pure mage builds

it may be possible but it seems way harder than before. i messed with miracles for a bit but the damage seemed like garbage, have to imagine that put people off.

 

[Orochinagis]

Maybe if spells are a little faster and a decent damage then yes, the mana bar is justified but no, I like the use system more due spell being underpowered at the benefict of long range combat and you will need a lot of casting and attunement to survive. Mana bar in Dark Souls 3 can take like less of a half of any area and enemies move too fast before you could land a spell on them and pvp, oh boy pvp is a nightmare for casting

 

[nded]

I kind of like the FP system, but having to allocate ashen estus at firelink is a bit cumbersome. I think it would've been better if you had a shared estus pool that you could use to restore health or focus as the situation demands.

 

[Azriell]

I love the FP system. I don't use skills very much, but I love being able to weapon buff myself on tougher fights. If skills didn't require me to put my shield away much of the time, I would use them more often. Instead, I usually have Flash Sweat, Fire Orb, or a healing miracle attuned. I'm nearing the end of my first playthrough (melee), am looking forward to trying out some sort of casting focused build to see how the FP system fairs when I'm using it more.

 

[Renekton]

in 50 hours of playing i've barely seen anyone use magic much less pure mage builds

it may be possible but it seems way harder than before. i messed with miracles for a bit but the damage seemed like garbage, have to imagine that put people off.

IINM the scaling is there but it takes too many levels in before you start to feel the power (for PVE)

 

[Defuser]

FP is great, it remove the limit of uses each spell/miracle could use. I allocate at least 2 Ashen flasks, if I'm running out of estus flask to heal there is healing miracles to use to back me up thanks to FP. Not a big deal.

 

[30yearsofhurt]

I prefer the FP system. it's like DeS, but with no infinite magic casting.

Didn't you get a ring early on (in Demon's) that replenished your mana bar?

 

[JoeyJungle]

IINM the scaling is there but it takes too many levels in before you start to feel the power (for PVE)

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=IINM for noobs like me

 

[Vital Tundra]

FP is better. The issue is Ashen Estus gimping magic users. Trading off Estus for ash early game is super lame. What would be interesting is gaining more ashen Estus based on attunement instead of having to balance it so spell casters can have the same amount of Estus, but extra ashen based on how hard they go on their magic build.

 

[GorillaJu]

Don't like the DS3 system because I don't like having to trade heals for FP regen.

 

[super-famicom]

I prefer the FP system. Similar to Demons Souls but without the spice spamming

 

[jacksepticeye]

Trading health restoration for mana restoration sounds like a interesting balancing act on paper but in the game its annoying. Feels very limiting and spells suck in the game already limiting you further, especially early on. DS2 did it best I think, sorcery builds were really damn fun and competent in that game.

 

[Flipyap]

I never liked the idea of spell ammo, but having to sacrifice Estus charges makes the FP system far too costly.
It's nice that they came up with a way for non-magic builds to make use of the blue resource bar. Too bad the two ways of using it don't mix, so when I got a couple of buff spells near the end of the game, I basically had to stop using Weapon Skills because sacrificing an Estus to recharge after applying a buff just wasn't worth it.

 

[Sciz]

The FP system is nice, if only because it lets you blow all of your resources on a single spell if you really want to without having to track down half a dozen copies of it.

IINM the scaling is there but it takes too many levels in before you start to feel the power (for PVE)

I keep seeing people say this, but my own sorcerer was nuking stuff pretty hard from start to finish, without any real health/mana issues at any point.

 

[Steel]

Preferred uses.

Well, I do like weapon skills and they're well balanced with FP, but it makes me not want to do a mage build if I have to give up weapon skills to conserve FP.

 

[KHlover]

in 50 hours of playing i've barely seen anyone use magic much less pure mage builds

it may be possible but it seems way harder than before. i messed with miracles for a bit but the damage seemed like garbage, have to imagine that put people off.

Someone made a great post about that in the DS3 OT. I don't remember everything, but the gist was that you're supposed to use miracles like the Lightning Spears from basically melee range for maximum damage. The farther away you get from the enemy, the less damage miracles do.

 

[Hugstable]

I like FP better, it's like a more balanced version of Demon's magic system

 

[web01]

There should be a magic weapon infusion that recovers FP.
Clerics get the HP healing infusion but it could use a buff.

The spell use system was better. But I can see why they went with mana.
It is much harder to balance spell uses. DS3 has some areas that are very large and others that are very short between bonfire.
I think overall they do not really intend for people to play pure mage. Early sword spell and shield buff is very powerful and overlooked / ignored.

 

[Manus]

I love the FP system. Been running a Pyro/Dark build on PC and it just makes the late game broken for PVE, you do so much damage to bosses and enemies.

 

[Caim]

I like both systems, but as far as DS3 goes I think to balance it out a little bit I think spells should do a bit more damage because having to get to 50+ INT and/or FTH just to do good damage is pretty insane.

 

[105.Will]

I think FP+Ashen estus would be the better if magic didn't absolutely suck

 

[Wagram]

FP + Ashen was a brilliant way to do it. Lots of consumables is garbage.

 

[Sub_Level]

A bar for special melee attacks is great.

I think its a bad idea that the bar must be shared with magic, though. Magic should be numbered charges.

 

[Toxi]

Someone made a great post about that in the DS3 OT. I don't remember everything, but the gist was that you're supposed to use miracles like the Lightning Spears from basically melee range for maximum damage. The farther away you get from the enemy, the less damage miracles do.

Even at point-blank, the damage is terrible unless you've got a huge faith investment.

 

[Robot Pants]

I think the DS3 system is the most balanced overall.