Namco completely ignored the huge petition that says to them don't use GFWL,I doubt they will listen or care now.
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Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition GamesCom trailer [update: new screens]
- Thread starter PixelHorror
- Start date
Namco completely ignored the huge petition that says to them don't use GFWL,I doubt they will listen or care now.
Revenile
Member
Ok granted, however there's probably more than just ignorance as to why they chose to keep it in (the multiplayer structure being the same as the 360 is my guess). But what is stopping people from sending their complaints directly to Namco like I did? Petition is just one option.
Why do you people insist on going over the same stupidly obvious argument again and again, when it's continually hammered into your skulls? It's a shitty port, replete with GFWL, muddy IQ w/ low resolutions, hard FPS caps, and the experience of playing such a poor port will understandably affect any first-time experience with anything.
That it will run better than the consoles isn't much of a consolation when decent PCs are vastly more capable, and the game didn't exactly run like a dream on consoles. We're setting a pretty damn low bar here. PC gamers are going to get a game that doesn't make use of what the PC is capable of, and incredibly enough, standards there are quite different.
Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are by leaps and bounds my favorite games to come out of consoles this gen, and I always thought they'd be a perfect fit on PC. This isn't particularly what I was expecting, and I think it's very unfortunate that these technical issues may for many people taint what is truly a fantastic game underneath the dirt.
D3RANG3D
Member
LOL this just keeps getting better and better!
There's being cheap, basically, but that applieas to all the problems with this port.
I personally signed the petition someone made a couple of weeks back, but i don't think it will accomplish anything worthwhile.
I mean it's not like they don't know what the minimum requirements for a PC port are, they just chose to ignore them to save as much money as possible, OF COURSE the customers are gonna be pissed off.
Sentenza
Member
Well, no, that's not an ignored reason (in fact it's probably everyone's guess), it's just an insufficient one.
The "conversation" going on is something like:
"You know, using the same netcode as the 360 version is very practical for us".
"Yeah, well, we don't care. We hate the service and we are your customers, don't give us something we hate. It's bad for us and bad for you as a business practice".
It gets even worse if you consider that the 360 version is quite easy to hack and this will most likely be even worse on PC.
I hope it is.. but again, it could be like mass effect or bioshock.. a game from a console designed for a console, that has the option of playing it as designed removed.
The PC is an amazing machine that can play the part of many disparate devices.. but a game designed for a console should at least meet what the game was on console.. that's what i expect from a port anything else is gravy.
Mass effect had a good looking game with higher screen res, but it didn't play as designed - and I consider that to be the worst crime.. graphics are there to support the gameplay, I'd like them to be nicer sure, but not if their crappy PC code makes it run like crap (from)
I'd love to see dark souls have some of the support and patches and the PC version approach that Alan wake was shown (Removal of gfwl in particular) and I can still hope for future improvements, but I know that the game will run at its worst better than console and give me the same experience as designed.. a lot of console ports don't even do that..
Glass Rebel
Member
Almost as bad as the people claiming that we don't want to buy it because we're afraid it might be to hard for us.
Almost.
Sorry, I didn't mean 'enabled' in the sense of 'entitled' (I hate that expression, it seems to have flooded anything gaming related on the internet).
I think I'd be happier if I was playing games right now rather than reading about them.. sick in bed so doing next best thing.. but oh well.. learned my lesson. This game should not exist as it <insert whatever here> and that is clearly better than having a version of the game at all. The internet has told me I was silly for being happy a game I was wanting to play will be available for me to play. Thank you internet.
D3RANG3D
Member
You do realize that it wasn't the enabling, it's the accusation of we would not have bought it anyway that I was trying to call attention too.
Second set of apologies.. I'm typing on a tab so not rereading stuff over as I should.. I shouldn't have generalised.
I will be buying the game and giving Namco customer services hell.
uk.support@namcobandaipartners.com
uk.support@namcobandaipartners.com
anyone thinking that not buying this is going to make somekind of grand statement is being silly. Namco/From/the-rest-of-the-industry cannot read minds.
If it does tank, what will be seen by From is that the same game that was successful and widely praised on console, with added free bonus content did not sell on PC, even though 100 000+ people asked for the game to be on PC. end of.
What they won't be thinking is "well, on neogaf, the same 20 guys posted 1140 posts on how they would have bought it if it was different than on console. So we should spend loads more money & do that next time."
Not buying a port of a niche game from an independent Japanese developer isn't going to mean anything in terms of what ports are like in the future from other companies, only what future ports (or lack thereof) are going to come from From Software.
I look at Borderlands as a case in point. They spend very little time on the PC version, but it sold well. Borderlands2 for PC apparently has had a good amount of resources devoted to it, and will be better on PC than B1. That happened because B1 sold well, not because it sold poorly on PC.
If it does tank, what will be seen by From is that the same game that was successful and widely praised on console, with added free bonus content did not sell on PC, even though 100 000+ people asked for the game to be on PC. end of.
What they won't be thinking is "well, on neogaf, the same 20 guys posted 1140 posts on how they would have bought it if it was different than on console. So we should spend loads more money & do that next time."
Not buying a port of a niche game from an independent Japanese developer isn't going to mean anything in terms of what ports are like in the future from other companies, only what future ports (or lack thereof) are going to come from From Software.
I look at Borderlands as a case in point. They spend very little time on the PC version, but it sold well. Borderlands2 for PC apparently has had a good amount of resources devoted to it, and will be better on PC than B1. That happened because B1 sold well, not because it sold poorly on PC.
Castor Krieg
Banned
Who needs to read minds? Just to your average job and you will still come up with putting more effort into it than Namco/From did. Support for custom resolutions is "reading mind" territory now?
Felix Lighter
Member
I'd say the majority of the people who are choosing not to buy it aren't trying to make a "grand statement." They just aren't buying it or are waiting to buy it when it's lower in price or improved in quality because they feel the game is subpar on a technical level to the point that it's not worth $40.
You seem to be suggesting that those people should just buy it at full price to make the grand statement that despite the quality of the product they are selling they are willing to buy the game just in hopes that From supports the platform better in the future.
Of course not everyone, but plenty of people have said that they don't want to buy this game because it will say to the industry that this kind of thing is OK.
Buy the game because it is a stellar arpg that doesn't pander. Don't buy the game for any other reason. Games are luxuries and game companies are not charities.
But to avoid the game only because of console quality graphics or because you want to make some kind of industry-wide statement is silly.
Sleeping Dogs got great PC support and the dev studio had put little effort in their PC ports before. Capcom provided abysmal support for PC but this generation they keep on going all out.
Dark Souls is one of the few hardcore games on consoles and thus its cult following will defend the game of any flaws it has. The pretentious attitude of the fanbase to PC gamers has to stop. Stop defending bad ports. Stop defending poor support. If this was just about any other game with a poor port job noone would be trolling the PC platform constantly. But since the fanbase is nuts, the bullshit will continue.
zephervack
Member
I find it funny that 2 days before release we really have no concrete info, all this debates and backlash has happened because of one article from Eurogamer I think.
I cant wait to get real impressions from people that know what they are talking about, Im not saying that Eurogamer doesnt know what they are saying, im just saying that it is very different to test a game in a Media press room than in your own home/office.
Maybe im just in denial, I have been waiting for this game for so long, I just wish there was a big detailed technical article about it.
Wouldnt want early birds' negative impressions from deterring people still on the fence before they release it. Im sure they are pretty scared about this.
I cant wait to get real impressions from people that know what they are talking about, Im not saying that Eurogamer doesnt know what they are saying, im just saying that it is very different to test a game in a Media press room than in your own home/office.
Maybe im just in denial, I have been waiting for this game for so long, I just wish there was a big detailed technical article about it.
Wouldnt want early birds' negative impressions from deterring people still on the fence before they release it. Im sure they are pretty scared about this.
It is one of the few hardcore games period, pc or otherwise.
And the only trolls are the ones saying the game is bad on pc. Yeah, ok, the port is barebones, but as long as it doesnt have crashes or save corruptions, the game will be outstanding.
There's reaching, then there's this. You're so far in denial that you're crossing the border to Sudan.
kurrptsenate
Banned
The game is already a huge success. If people on PC don't adopt the version ported for them, it will probably mean they won't bring it to the PC again. It's not going to hurt anyone but themselves.
D3RANG3D
Member
GFWL is notorious for fucking up saves, crashes are bound to happen the frequency are anyone's guess though.
Your point being? We should still buy it however bad the port is? We should pretend we have zero standards and just pay 40 bucks for it? I don't care how good the gameplay is. If it can't meet the minimum standars of 16 year old games, I'm not paying full price for it. 5 bucks is the most, if at all.
Luckily no one is saying that
(I'm pretty sure I made this exact same post, word for word, in the other thread. Round and round we go...)
The idea that you're not sending a message about not poorly porting games, you're sending a message about porting games at all and their next game will probably be an awesome port is ridiculous. How would we know how the publisher interprets sales? Should the end user have to care about the implications of buying or not buying the game? There are reasons to buy or not buy this game as the situation stands, and no one gets to tell anyone that they're wrong about interpreting the situation in a way that makes them not want to buy the game. The same goes for the opposite, but I'm not seeing anyone here getting really pissed off at those who know the technical issues but decide to buy it anyway.
Sure it's a barebones port and still manages to be superior to the console versions, but...
- Saves are not only encrypted, but they will be locked to machines/accounts. There is no moving your save between machines, installs, accounts, etc.... This is the sad reality of current GFWL, and I doubt it will change with DS.
- Limited post-release support. So it's one one free patch, and everyone after that costs them? Obviously the budget was tight from the start, so I doubt they've also budgeted multiple, post-launch patches. Hope for a few, prepare for just one.
- Hacking is relatively commonplace on 360 with XBL, so it's logical to assume it will be even more commonplace on a open platform, such as PC, using the same network, GFWL.
- The longevity of Dark Souls on PC, at least in terms of multiplayer, is tied to MS's support of GFWL. Unlike Valve who has a profit motivation to keep supporting Steam/Steamworks until the end of gaming as we know it, MS's approach comes off as some inconvenient obligation... at best. I personally wouldn't count on them supporting MP for GFWL titles in 5 years when they eventually overhaul/scrap it.
So it's essentially the 360 version, almost quite literally, and they were surprisingly honest and forthright about that from the start. However, it needs to pointed out that they've squandered absolutely any/all benefits the PC platform could afford their efforts, except for maybe K&M controls, better performance, and a couple of graphics toggles. As someone that was looking to buy a second copy but nevertheless someone who asked for the port, it's sad I'm so reluctant to be a repeat customer for what is an awesome game by a company I have a lot of respect and admiration for.
And I realize I'm just repeating points that have already been made, but it doesn't hurt to repeatedly bring up the issues that will effect every customer, regardless of their feelings about the quality of the port.
I am waiting until after release before deciding if/when to buy, and I would recommend the same to anyone else bothered by the above, unavoidable issues. Regardless of what happens though, the Souls games are still two of my all-time favorite games and I will be purchasing the DLC this fall for PS3.
Petition to improve Dark Souls for PC
EDIT: I have no stance on those who will buy in spite of the issues. What you do with your money is of no concern to me. I just want people to be informed and maybe, hopefully, contribute to making the experience better for everyone.
PixelHorror
Member
It's the same method that Steam uses, it just a timed release to prevent zero day piracy.
Way to ignore the rest of my post
See? FROM's defense force is just as retarded as any chronic complainer and is gonna sour the OT just as much. Do I have to clarify I don't sort my backlog by resolution? Of course I fucking don't, you're being purposely dense and overlooking the point I and many others have tried to make. I rank the shit ports lower in my backlog than the good ones, yes. I have a good amount of other games just as good as Dark Souls I could play instead, that have none of these issues.
I'm tired of non-PC gamers tellling me what should I deem acceptable. If you think Dark Souls is a good port then you don't understand PC gaming and you should refrain yourself from discussing a subject you don't know shit about.
I'd like you to find me a single post saying that the game will be bad on PC.
If they cared, it would still be under embargo.
zephervack
Member
... at all.Way to ignore the rest of my post
See? FROM's defense force is just as retarded as any chronic complainer and is gonna sour the OT just as much. Do I have to clarify I don't sort my backlog by resolution? Of course I fucking don't, you're being purposely dense and overlooking the point I and many others have tried to make. I rank the shit ports lower in my backlog than the good ones, yes. I have a good amount of other games just as good as Dark Souls I could play instead, that have none of these issues.
I'm tired of non-PC gamers tellling me what should I deem acceptable. If you think Dark Souls is a good port then you don't understand PC gaming and you should refrain yourself from discussing in a subject you don't know shit about.
I'd like you to find me a single post saying that the game will be bad on PC.
Edit: sorry, you're right. I read your post badly and my comment wasn't called for - sorry about that.
vikingvessel
Member
Thank you for taking the time to break it down so concisely in the original post. It really cleared things up for someone as unfamiliar with GFWL as myself.
no, I'm not telling anyone to buy it. All I'm saying is that if you like nails arpgs & ps360 graphic quality is ok with you, then there is no sensible reason not to pick it up on PC.
Yeah, wait till after release to see if there are any gamebreaking bugs, or wait for a sale or whatever. But to not play the game because of some arbitrary porting standards...
I guess I now know how nintendo supports feel.
EatinOlives
Member
Yeah, a framebuffer locked at a ridiculously low resolution is NOT "some arbitrary porting standards". You saying they're arbitrary is, in itself, what is arbitrary.
Nobody's arguing about the quality of the game itself. People are pissed about the quality of the port which can have a direct effect on the enjoyment of the game for some people, whether you like it or not.
What is it that you lot don't get?
no one is saying the game us bad. But we are all saying the port is bad!
this is only like say buying bayonetta on 360 instead of ps3 because the ps3 port is substandard. Except in this case if you are a pc only gamer there is no alternative, so many pc players will just choose to go without.it doesn't mean however they don't have the right to complain.
to try to clarify how important iq settings are to pc gamers:
go play haze for ps3. Then look at that games image quality. Or play a ps1 game on your ps3 on a HDTV.
I really don't understand the defence for this less than bearebones port
no one is saying the game us bad. But we are all saying the port is bad!
this is only like say buying bayonetta on 360 instead of ps3 because the ps3 port is substandard. Except in this case if you are a pc only gamer there is no alternative, so many pc players will just choose to go without.it doesn't mean however they don't have the right to complain.
to try to clarify how important iq settings are to pc gamers:
go play haze for ps3. Then look at that games image quality. Or play a ps1 game on your ps3 on a HDTV.
I really don't understand the defence for this less than bearebones port
This isn't everything that's bad with the port, but it's a start. And that's what everyone who criticised it was saying: buy it if you don't mind that stuff, don't buy it if you don't.
They aren't "arbitrary porting standards", they are common features present in EVERY 3D PC game (and most of 2D games) from the last 16 years. I don't get why is it so hard to understand for some that there may be some people who aren't willing to sink 40 dollars on a game that doesn't have a variable rendering resolution, which is something that every other game can do. It's not about the game having "console like" graphics, it's not about the game being bad (from what I've read and heard, it's awesome and I'd like to try it), it's not about trying to send some criptic messages to the developers/publishers. It's about PC gamers not wanting to be forced to buy a game that plainly contradicts the reasons they started gaming on PC in the first place.
It doesn't have anything to do with what happened to the Wii. That was a case of some third party developers not wanting to downscale their games to run in that hardware, believing it wouldn't sell and being lazy (which I think is BS, but at least Nintendo's games were good enough to make the console worth having, and many third party games were great indeed), but this is just Namco being cheap as fuck.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
You get 'em tiger!
I don't see how that proves a thing. I will also say that if the community finds a way to unlock the res and frame rate, I'm still not giving them a sale until it's cheap. It doesn't particularly sit well with me to support a dev who releases a game in this less than bare minimum form just because the community fixes it for me. That leaves a bad taste but for 10 or less, I will. That's only if things are fixed. If From/Bamco decide to fix this, I may break at 40 or slightly less.
Goes to show that I'm not completely against supporting this game barring it gets the love it deserves on PC.
Make no mistake, missing out on a quality game like this is not good but it will also not be missed. Not with all the great things already happening and that will continue to happen on PC. This isn't even including stuff like mod support and the dozens of bells and whistles PC brings to gaming.
A good game is a good game but PC standards (and I'm sorry to say this) are simply higher. Not that this should cost devs insane amounts of monies considering we are only asking for bare minimum things like proper resolution support really.
I would almost have lived with everything else if not for that but as shameful as that sounds, it's a terrifically bad port.
Krappadizzle
Member
It is like a merri-go-round with you. Same thing. It seems like you are not going to play this on PC anyways, so why defend FS and a shoddy port? No one questions the quality of the material, just the quality of the port.
30 hours out, and we get a bit of new information.
Hmmm....
New(???) recommended specs:
Also,
- It appears we'll at least get a windowed mode.
- Mouse unable to be customized?
Hmmm....
Not looking good, fellas. Can anyone here do better than Google translate?!
New(???) recommended specs:
Those are some steep recommended specs for a game running at 1024x768, unless they're not actually recommending a Radeon 6XXX or higher card.
Also,
- It appears we'll at least get a windowed mode.
- Mouse unable to be customized?
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
It's so poorly worked that it needs hardcore donkey style PC's with gangster like parts to run such pimp 1024x768 badassery on screen -_-
Sentenza
Member
I'm ready to bet there won't be any preload.
Someone in this thread got an AU/NZ retail copy and the game said it was locked until the 23rd, which is the release date for those regions. Not sure about Europe.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I know it will be a shameful admittance of rat bastard like proportions but when is the OT going up?
Tonight-ish, hopefully. Indigo Cyclops is updating the original OT and adding a new FAQ.
zephervack
Member
Wat????
Does the game use DX10 at all?? why recommend it?