all 3 were better than 80% of dark souls 2's bosses.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Dark Souls VS Dark Souls II
- Thread starter Trick_GSF
- Start date
all 3 were better than 80% of dark souls 2's bosses.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Not pointing fingers but you sound biased. I can't believe someone thinks a reskinned Asylum Demon, Centipede Demon and BoC are better bosses than most of Dark Souls II ones.
Demon Ruins and Jurassic Park on lava were probably some of the most uninspired parts of DS1. They obviously were burned out/tired at that point....or something.
One thing tho it doesn't feel like there is a Painted World equivalent in DS2. I thought the layout of it was pretty cool. Felt alot like a "practice" level they made before doing DS1
One thing tho it doesn't feel like there is a Painted World equivalent in DS2. I thought the layout of it was pretty cool. Felt alot like a "practice" level they made before doing DS1
BoC isnt a demon ruins boss.
and maybe not 80%, but at least 66%.
because 2/3 of the bosses were "strafe to the right with your shield up and attack after their attack" bosses.
johntown
Banned
My favorite souls games is Demon's.
This game is good but they make it so you cannot fail.
An absurd amount of restorative items and buffs. Everyone had a +10 weapon. Invasions are almost non-existentent in the first playthrough. Enemies stop re spawning after a while and there is a ring you can wear do you never lose anything ever!
I really enjoyed the optional bosses and bosses you cannot summon for.
Just tweaks could make this game better but as others have said it is still a great game.
If they can get rid of soul memory that would be a start. Have items for infinite invasions.
I mean with all the coop and buffs no one should have any issue fighting invaders.
I think they wanted to make the game more accessible and managed to do it subtly.
This game is good but they make it so you cannot fail.
An absurd amount of restorative items and buffs. Everyone had a +10 weapon. Invasions are almost non-existentent in the first playthrough. Enemies stop re spawning after a while and there is a ring you can wear do you never lose anything ever!
I really enjoyed the optional bosses and bosses you cannot summon for.
Just tweaks could make this game better but as others have said it is still a great game.
If they can get rid of soul memory that would be a start. Have items for infinite invasions.
I mean with all the coop and buffs no one should have any issue fighting invaders.
I think they wanted to make the game more accessible and managed to do it subtly.
Nah, I'd say at most they were on par with some of the worse DaS2 bosses. Ceaseless discharge, centipede and the asylum demon version 3 were really bad.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Dark Souls 1 is easily better.
Dark Souls 2 isn't bad by any means, but a lot of if feels uninspired
And I know Dark Souls had shitty parts like demon butt hell, but like half of DS2s areas were like "ok, whatever. Next."
Dark Souls 2 isn't bad by any means, but a lot of if feels uninspired
bosses and enemy designs
Co-signed.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I love the DeS soundtrack but other than Maiden Astraea and the "dark" ending theme, I don't think it's necessarily better than Motoi's compositions in Dark Souls. I admit so far few DkS2 songs grabbed me, but they might grow on me.
Better exploration. There are way, way, way more secrets to find. And it's generally very rewarding. In Dark Souls you'd sometimes drop to some obscure risky platform and then find something crappy but in Dark Souls 2 you'd find an amazing item, at least far more often.
Game is about double the length. A lot of stuff to do, most of it great.
Way, way better and more interesting NG+ experience.
Way more weapons, armours, spells, items. More possibilities of different builds and playstyles.
Manually aiming spells and crossbows is a significant improvement.
Despite the criticism that it got "nerfed" or downgraded or whatever, the torch mechanic was pretty neat. Used it a lot myself, it was nice to find secrets too, not just to "see" in front of you.
No Bed of Chaos-like boss.
Cape and cloak physics. Enough said.
It's too soon for me to say which one I like most, and it's fine to prefer one over the other (hell I might argue Demon's Souls is still the best because it was my "first love"
and it still has the best PvP), but to state that there is nothing better in DkS2 over DkS1 reeks of either rose-tinted glasses or disingenuousness.There are tons of good-looking armour sets, but posting the pics would be spoilerific at this stage I guess. And again: cloaks. Cloaks win. Sorry.
Ceaseless Discharge is a cool boss. Not sure why he gets so much hate.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
You're both wrong IMO. Both take skills and are not particularly "cheap". Cheap and lame is like Bed of Chaos. But both the Anor Londo archers and the Shrine of Amana can be beaten using a variety of tactics, some of which require skill, others which are longer but require patience or planning. That's why these games are so good.
i guess Im the only one who liked DS2 OST more than 1. DS1 OST felt too "samey" for me. Nothing comes close to Gwyns theme though.
Ok, I can agree with this. Its just that I dont see how the archers require more skill than the mages in the Shrine, Both are trollish encounters (especially for a full melee player).
Ok, I can agree with this. Its just that I dont see how the archers require more skill than the mages in the Shrine, Both are trollish encounters (especially for a full melee player).
Well, I liked the tomb, and New Londo and the Dukes Archives. Demon Ruins and Lost Izalith sucks though.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Huh you can also apply that to almost every boss in DS1 and DeS
This. Both of those places are skill, hell, they scared the shit out of me but it wasn't until about my third character that I even died on the Anor Londo archers, and all my deaths on Shrine of Amana have been mistakes on my part too (although I think the water being so dark around the ruin parts is a bit cheap and makes it hard to see where you can get out).
I've always found the Souls soundtracks a bit hit and miss, but they've generally grown on me over time. To be fair nothing in DS2 sticks out as immediately awesome like Maiden Astraea, Ornstein and Smough or Gwyn, but there's already a few tracks that are growing on me.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I usually favour full melee (though I went pretty intensely with archery in DkS2 compared to previous games), and have no problem with the AL archers anymore. Run up to the right, roll, then parry the fucker. Voilà.
Try torch
Another reason why I'm annoyed at people who say the torch is only useful in the Gutter. I wonder how many of those people overlap with those bitching at Amana...
I just found out way latter that that section was so hard for almost everyone.
and srsly, what is so "shitty" about demon ruins and lost izalith?
especially demon ruins?
and only thing that was kinda shitty about LI were the dragon buts and BoC.
2 of them were at least interessting and kinda well designed.
and the 3rd asylum demon wasn't that bad either.
there weren't many interessting bosses in part 2.
and if the were, they were easy.
like demon of song, guardian dragon, or the last boss.
I know about using the torch to find the edges (I sure would have found that place a lot more irritating without realising that), but that leaves you completely at the mercy of the mages unless you swap everything around. It's a little hard to describe but I'm mainly talking about the ruins before the third bonfire (near the house you can go in) where there's a bridge thing with a lot of cover and only one or two ways up onto it; if you overlook that it's really easy to drop off and not realise there's only a couple of ways back up onto it.
Then again, even then you can always look around to learn the territory before engaging the mages and knights, and it pretty much only catches you out once.
Then again, even then you can always look around to learn the territory before engaging the mages and knights, and it pretty much only catches you out once.
There are also even less memorable or even good level design and bosses in DS2.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
What?
The game is more non-linear if anything.
Dark Souls1 had a certain forced progression before you could access newer areas.
This opens ups way more branching paths at the start.
I played through several later levels & completely went off the intended storyline path without ever even knowing it.
The levels themselves are just as intricate.
Deja Vu. The same opinions were voiced when comparing Dark1 to Demons.
Each game has its lows and highs.
Demons
Dark1
Dark2
Even with their flaws, each game stands above everything else out there. I also like that each game has very different layouts and mechanics, it leaves a lot to explore and figure out.
I see a lot of complaints about easy circle strafe bosses in dark2, but those were common in both games. In dark 2 they also come with some addition details, like the Dragon Rider is much harder if you don't raise the platforms and the lost sinner is brutal if the room is left dark. I like these little changes that reward exploration.
In the end.
I like the PvE best in Demons souls best. The world is dark, harsh, and scary to the end. Lots of diversity in enemies and flavor throughout.
I like the lore in Dark Souls 1 the best. Piecing together the gods, wondering about the abyss and the serpents, discovering the four legendary knights, and each world had its own flavor and story to tell.
I like the PvP in Dark Souls 2 the best. Lots of good covenants supply lots of ways to play against each other, very little lag, and tons of varied options for combat.
All in all, all the games do the above 3 things very well, but to different degrees of success. I dont think i could choose just one, I must have all of them and all the ones that have yet to come. I Need Souls.
Each game has its lows and highs.
Demons
- Terrible design for boss weapons, and terrible drops on stones to upgrade weapons.
- Armor didnt matter
- world tendency was a pain
Dark1
- terrible end game zones
- Reskinned bosses
- laggy and unresponsive online play
Dark2
- Disconnected world, some areas seem out of place
- The worlds lore depended too much on Dark1 instead of reinventing itself
- Some poor visuals in the beginning of the game.
Even with their flaws, each game stands above everything else out there. I also like that each game has very different layouts and mechanics, it leaves a lot to explore and figure out.
I see a lot of complaints about easy circle strafe bosses in dark2, but those were common in both games. In dark 2 they also come with some addition details, like the Dragon Rider is much harder if you don't raise the platforms and the lost sinner is brutal if the room is left dark. I like these little changes that reward exploration.
In the end.
I like the PvE best in Demons souls best. The world is dark, harsh, and scary to the end. Lots of diversity in enemies and flavor throughout.
I like the lore in Dark Souls 1 the best. Piecing together the gods, wondering about the abyss and the serpents, discovering the four legendary knights, and each world had its own flavor and story to tell.
I like the PvP in Dark Souls 2 the best. Lots of good covenants supply lots of ways to play against each other, very little lag, and tons of varied options for combat.
All in all, all the games do the above 3 things very well, but to different degrees of success. I dont think i could choose just one, I must have all of them and all the ones that have yet to come. I Need Souls.
It's too soon for me to say which one I like most, and it's fine to prefer one over the other (hell I might argue Demon's Souls is still the best because it was my "first love"
Dark2 absolutely isn't double the length.In my case, Dark Souls took me 70 hours the first time where as 2 took me 59 hours.
Most weapons are just reuses from Dark Souls.There aren't that many more weapons at all.
I stand by what I said.Having played Dark Souls right after my Dark Souls 2 playthough I can easily say that its just uniformly better.
About the secrets...Are you sure ? Most things in Dark Souls 2 were pretty easy to find without much "ahaaa" moments. Dark Souls had a lot more tricky things to find. Heck the freaking painted world and the great hollow were secrets in Dark Souls.
Where were things like that in 2 ? None.
Hate the weapon breaking mechanics, very much dislike the combat "rebalancing" when they introduced tons of recovery to everything you do.
I just really think Dark Souls is better in every single regard.
level design, not world design.
and what dark souls 1 bosses were reskinned demon's souls bosses?
or did you mean the 3 asylum demons?
and yeah, in dark 1 you had to find the right way in the beginning.
a lot of players didn't even find lower undead burg and the depths after the first bell.
and what about using curse to hurt ghosts?
devine weapons to kill the skeletons?
going back to the asylum?
painted world?
John Rabbit
Banned
people knocking the level design/progression in Dark Souls II is baffling to me. it's so abstracted and weird. every world almost seems to exist unto itself. they're like tiny microcosms of atmosphere, each unique and part of a larger, barely connected whole.
i acknowledge Dark Souls had more of an obvious "world" where things were more sensibly connected to each other, but the fractured nature of Dark Souls II is really something I enjoy. i feel like it ties in better to the kind of experience and emotion From Software delivers with these games.
i acknowledge Dark Souls had more of an obvious "world" where things were more sensibly connected to each other, but the fractured nature of Dark Souls II is really something I enjoy. i feel like it ties in better to the kind of experience and emotion From Software delivers with these games.
I usually favour full melee (though I went pretty intensely with archery in DkS2 compared to previous games), and have no problem with the AL archers anymore. Run up to the right, roll, then parry the fucker. Voilà.
Yep. I got the archers down with full melee easy with that tactic.
The shrine was a bitch, lots of rolling and carefully pulling, especialy the part after the second bonfire, with the mages and the phantom.
Demon Ruins probably isnt as bad but no way its better that any DS2 areas. LI is just a big open empty area with some roots to climb up and terrible enemy placement (and terrible enemies period.)
Not complaining about that. I already said DS1 is better than 2. But I cant agree with anyone that says LI is better than any area in DS2. That section was just plain bad, and I love DS1 like almost no other game.
I havent read through the whole thread so not sure how many times these issues have come up. It is still a little early for me to pick which game I like better yet. Due to all the good games in March I have put in maybe 40 hours playing Dark Souls 2. When it was released many people hated Dark Souls, they thought Demons Souls was much better. Since then Dark Souls has won over a lot of people. It will take time to see how Dark Souls 2 holds up and what changes they make based on player feedback. Im sure they are going to release a patch or DLC to address some of the complaints.
Dark Souls world is very well connected and feels seamless imo. Every zone seems to fit and the change makes sense. The only ones I felt that were sudden was flying out of Sens Fortress to Anor Londo, and going through the portrait in Anor Londo to get to the Painted world. Moving from one area to the next felt gradual and smooth unless you took one of the shortcuts. Once I opened the short cuts in Dark Souls 1, I felt I could move around in the whole world quickly and easily without using bonfire warp.
In Dark Souls 2 the change between areas feels jarring and sloppy. It feels like they put duct tape over the cracks in hopes people didnt notice. Changes between one area to the next is very noticeable. It seems like different teams worked on each area and when they finished a section they got together to throw things together the best they could. The bonfire warp system feels like a band aid to hide the poorly connected world.
The bosses and the online component of Dark Souls 2 could have used more player testing as well. The complaints I have with Dark Souls 2 could be fixed with a few tweaks, patches or DLC. I havent finished my NG+ playthrough yet and Ive heard a couple of the problems I have with the game are missing in NG+. In 6 months I will have a better idea which Dark Souls game I like more. A possible PS4 version or the PC version with a few changes could make a big difference.
Dark Souls world is very well connected and feels seamless imo. Every zone seems to fit and the change makes sense. The only ones I felt that were sudden was flying out of Sens Fortress to Anor Londo, and going through the portrait in Anor Londo to get to the Painted world. Moving from one area to the next felt gradual and smooth unless you took one of the shortcuts. Once I opened the short cuts in Dark Souls 1, I felt I could move around in the whole world quickly and easily without using bonfire warp.
In Dark Souls 2 the change between areas feels jarring and sloppy. It feels like they put duct tape over the cracks in hopes people didnt notice. Changes between one area to the next is very noticeable. It seems like different teams worked on each area and when they finished a section they got together to throw things together the best they could. The bonfire warp system feels like a band aid to hide the poorly connected world.
The bosses and the online component of Dark Souls 2 could have used more player testing as well. The complaints I have with Dark Souls 2 could be fixed with a few tweaks, patches or DLC. I havent finished my NG+ playthrough yet and Ive heard a couple of the problems I have with the game are missing in NG+. In 6 months I will have a better idea which Dark Souls game I like more. A possible PS4 version or the PC version with a few changes could make a big difference.
I guess I'll chime in and say what I think of the sequel.
- Architecture
Architecture is nowhere near that of the previous game. In DkS, discovering that Parish/Graveyard/New Londo/Burg was a great thing. Discovering that you could skip the entirety of Blighttown by the way of the Valley was also a great thing. Here, at most, I noticed that various parts of Bastille attach to each other and that's it. And how does the ship from No Man's Wharf connect to Bastille? Logically, how does Iron Keep connect to Earthen Peak? Why is the Sunlight covenant in Earthern Peak? What happened to things like, people having to run the gauntlet of the Sen's Fortress in order to reach Anor Londo? And the various methods used to give players non-linearity are done by things like.. a fork road with three paths? And it isn't even that linear, considering there's no alternative at the beginning of the game than to go to the Forest of Giants. I guess that brings me to my second point.
- Linearity
Dark Souls 2 is the most linear game in the series thanks to the way they've implemented petrified areas and their required items in order to progress. Can't get down the well without a relatively expensive ring or certain amount of souls for HP? Well, I guess you'd better trot off elsewhere and grind for souls! Can't get to the forest area because a petrified woman is blocking the area? Well, go find that item! What we have here is a ton of people progressing through the Forest of Giants and Bastille, hitting a wall at Ruin Sentinels.
- Bosses
There is a boss behind practically every fog wall and that's a huge disappointment because it makes the game hilariously boring and predictable. As for the bosses themselves, I have to wonder what they were thinking with some of them. Covetous comes to mind, as does gimmick bosses which are affected by the environment's surroundings. Having difficulty with Mytha? Don't worry, there's a gimmick which trivializes the entire fight. You've probably found it, though, thanks to the way orange signs are implemented (in such a way which can literally spoonfeed a player). I guess that brings me to another point! Also, a fair portion of these bosses seem to be rushed or simply not thought out or made in poor taste (Vendrick, Ancient Dragon, Covetous, Flexile, etc).
- Orange signs
I can't believe I'm actually complaining about orange soapstone signs in this, but here I am. It's one of the unique features that I really liked back when I first discovered Demon's Souls. There's two problems with this. Firstly, they've given the player far more freedom to indirectly tell you "something <therefore/in short/by the way of/if that's the case>". In the previous games, it was far more limited and made it difficult for players to leave hints which other people could understand. Rather than a "hint", which is their purpose, they've now become indirect spoilers. Another issue with the orange signs is: people are putting these spoilers in front of illusory walls. Since it isn't possible to "toggle" between a wall and an orange hint, you can't open the wall which is now activated not by attacking them, but by pressing X.
- Weapon scaling
I don't know about you guys, but I made two dexiterty oriented builds and found them to be utterly disappointing. My first was one using a +10 Falchion (which is awful and constantly left me open for attack) and even late game, my +10 Fire Longsword was doing comparable damage. I also remember doing some entry-level PvP after unlocking the Brotherhood covenant only to find that I was winning basically every fight thanks to the Fire Longsword. My second dex build used a combination of dual wielding the Berserker Blade and Manslayer (Uchigatana and Blacksteel prior), which did pathetic amounts of damage to most bosses. Most weapons out of the weapon library are based around Strength as far as melee goes.
- Everything is weak to Strike
Nicovideo residents are calling speedruns "taiko runs" because everything is weak to strike damage and dual wielding clubs is the best way of progressing through the game. They could have probably worked on what bosses are weak to what and not have everything so all over the place. I really have no idea how I would have made it through Smelter on my first run (at that point I didn't realize he was optional) when my dex build (with 40 dexterity) was doing less than 80 damage to him per hit.
- Soul Memory
I understand that SM's purpose is to keep players on an even playing field in PvP, but everything about it is terrible and actually impedes people from progressing throughout the game if they wish to continue to PvP at such an area with such an audience. What if I'm a level 120 sunbro wanting to help people with the Ancient Dragon that only have a SM of 2-3 million, yet I have one of 5 million? I can't.
- Hexes
Hexes are overpowered, I don't think anyone who has used them is going to disagree. Especially Great Resonant Soul, which I one-shot people with for 1450 damage. Out of 80 or so people that I have invaded, I have killed possibly over 80%. Why even bother making a melee build? There is no etiquette in this game as of yet, so why bother?
- For a game set thousands of years after DkS, technology has diminished
Movesets. I'm talking the Murakumo's moveset, katanas, rapiers, Zweihander, scythes, you name it. All of them have different movesets now which feel awkward and inferior to the previous game. It's likely FROM didn't want people breezing through DkS2 with the same thing a player's grown accustomed to in Dark Souls, but a lot of these weapons are no longer useful because of their adjustments. A lot of these weapons (Murakumo, for instance) can completely miss enemies at close range, which was a problem in the original Dark Souls but is even more of a problem now in the sequel. There are a few exceptions but they shouldn't be punishing the player for picking (dexterity) if the mass majority of the movesets are inferior to the previous game or bad in some way.
- Incentive to PvP
There really is no incentive to invade and kill someone any more. Most of the incentives from covenants aren't worth the time and effort (1000+ fights for the Ring of Thorns +2?), especially things like "a shiny glowy aurea if you're in the Brotherhood covenant". Maybe if I was 14 and still wanted that ridiculously bright aura obtained only after reaching level 99 in Ragnarok Online, I'd care. Everyone just uses the Ring of Life Protection so it's not like you're even affecting them in any way. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that a lot of the covenant upgrades for your "loyalty" aren't worthwhile, especially in comparison to DkS where things like the Sunlight blade and Darkmoon Blade were covenant upgrades. Darkmoon Blade and Sunlight Blade, among other things like obtaining the infinite Red Eye Orb, were significant things. I will agree that covenants are generally better than DkS though.
- Tons of last minute changes between the network test and final retail version
This bothers me a lot, especially if they're doing such changes as Resistance to Adapatability. They changed Titchy Gren's voice entirely as well, to something much inferior as far as I'm concerned:
Beta https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2G-NF1vmtMo#t=20
Retail https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=l8oisLxidFc#t=71
They've changed various songs, and god knows what else to the game from the time between the network test and the final version. This leads me to believe the game was largely rushed.
- False advertising?
I'm a console gamer and anyone who knows me knows I mostly play 2D games, so know thoroughly that I don't care about graphics over gameplay. But yeah, you'd be lying to yourself if you thought these graphics were on par with what we saw in the network test or from the various trailers. It looks like shit in comparison to the trailers. Remember when they were showing that rockin' lantern with a character progressing downwards with a burning torch, and everyone thought that it was going to be the reincarnation of 2-2? Turns out it's just a small part of a late game memory. Or the very early footage of DkS2 which showed Aldia's Keep being progressed through in the opposite direction, with the skeleton?
- Soft caps, stats in general
Is everyone expected to have 20 Vigor, 20 Vitality, 20 Endurance with 40 in Strength or Dexterity or Int, or a mix of Strength/Faith or Strength/Int? It feels like the caps on VGR/VIT/END seriously limit people to what they're capable of doing with their character. As a result, a lot of people are saying that the PvP range should be raised to 150 or so, just because there's so many caps and so many spells/hexes which require a high level of them.
- Writing
I'm the last person who cares about the lore, but even I noticed that a lot of it is half-assed this time around. It's a little hard to believe that Dark Souls II is set so far into the future that the whole tone of item descriptions has changed. I feel like the item descriptions on a few things could have done with a better translation or possibly even been more thought out, especially considering how the fanbase paid so much attention to the lore of Dark Souls. I understand that these games are intentionally vague, but when there's nothing more than a linear description and nothing more to go by, or "this was owned by x who lived in x", it doesn't leave anything to the imagination.
I'm going to stop here, but I do have other finer issues with the game. In short: better PvE excluding bosses, worse everything else. Seriously, I think this game was rushed. I expect 10+ patches within the next year.
- Architecture
Architecture is nowhere near that of the previous game. In DkS, discovering that Parish/Graveyard/New Londo/Burg was a great thing. Discovering that you could skip the entirety of Blighttown by the way of the Valley was also a great thing. Here, at most, I noticed that various parts of Bastille attach to each other and that's it. And how does the ship from No Man's Wharf connect to Bastille? Logically, how does Iron Keep connect to Earthen Peak? Why is the Sunlight covenant in Earthern Peak? What happened to things like, people having to run the gauntlet of the Sen's Fortress in order to reach Anor Londo? And the various methods used to give players non-linearity are done by things like.. a fork road with three paths? And it isn't even that linear, considering there's no alternative at the beginning of the game than to go to the Forest of Giants. I guess that brings me to my second point.
- Linearity
Dark Souls 2 is the most linear game in the series thanks to the way they've implemented petrified areas and their required items in order to progress. Can't get down the well without a relatively expensive ring or certain amount of souls for HP? Well, I guess you'd better trot off elsewhere and grind for souls! Can't get to the forest area because a petrified woman is blocking the area? Well, go find that item! What we have here is a ton of people progressing through the Forest of Giants and Bastille, hitting a wall at Ruin Sentinels.
- Bosses
There is a boss behind practically every fog wall and that's a huge disappointment because it makes the game hilariously boring and predictable. As for the bosses themselves, I have to wonder what they were thinking with some of them. Covetous comes to mind, as does gimmick bosses which are affected by the environment's surroundings. Having difficulty with Mytha? Don't worry, there's a gimmick which trivializes the entire fight. You've probably found it, though, thanks to the way orange signs are implemented (in such a way which can literally spoonfeed a player). I guess that brings me to another point! Also, a fair portion of these bosses seem to be rushed or simply not thought out or made in poor taste (Vendrick, Ancient Dragon, Covetous, Flexile, etc).
- Orange signs
I can't believe I'm actually complaining about orange soapstone signs in this, but here I am. It's one of the unique features that I really liked back when I first discovered Demon's Souls. There's two problems with this. Firstly, they've given the player far more freedom to indirectly tell you "something <therefore/in short/by the way of/if that's the case>". In the previous games, it was far more limited and made it difficult for players to leave hints which other people could understand. Rather than a "hint", which is their purpose, they've now become indirect spoilers. Another issue with the orange signs is: people are putting these spoilers in front of illusory walls. Since it isn't possible to "toggle" between a wall and an orange hint, you can't open the wall which is now activated not by attacking them, but by pressing X.
- Weapon scaling
I don't know about you guys, but I made two dexiterty oriented builds and found them to be utterly disappointing. My first was one using a +10 Falchion (which is awful and constantly left me open for attack) and even late game, my +10 Fire Longsword was doing comparable damage. I also remember doing some entry-level PvP after unlocking the Brotherhood covenant only to find that I was winning basically every fight thanks to the Fire Longsword. My second dex build used a combination of dual wielding the Berserker Blade and Manslayer (Uchigatana and Blacksteel prior), which did pathetic amounts of damage to most bosses. Most weapons out of the weapon library are based around Strength as far as melee goes.
- Everything is weak to Strike
Nicovideo residents are calling speedruns "taiko runs" because everything is weak to strike damage and dual wielding clubs is the best way of progressing through the game. They could have probably worked on what bosses are weak to what and not have everything so all over the place. I really have no idea how I would have made it through Smelter on my first run (at that point I didn't realize he was optional) when my dex build (with 40 dexterity) was doing less than 80 damage to him per hit.
- Soul Memory
I understand that SM's purpose is to keep players on an even playing field in PvP, but everything about it is terrible and actually impedes people from progressing throughout the game if they wish to continue to PvP at such an area with such an audience. What if I'm a level 120 sunbro wanting to help people with the Ancient Dragon that only have a SM of 2-3 million, yet I have one of 5 million? I can't.
- Hexes
Hexes are overpowered, I don't think anyone who has used them is going to disagree. Especially Great Resonant Soul, which I one-shot people with for 1450 damage. Out of 80 or so people that I have invaded, I have killed possibly over 80%. Why even bother making a melee build? There is no etiquette in this game as of yet, so why bother?
- For a game set thousands of years after DkS, technology has diminished
Movesets. I'm talking the Murakumo's moveset, katanas, rapiers, Zweihander, scythes, you name it. All of them have different movesets now which feel awkward and inferior to the previous game. It's likely FROM didn't want people breezing through DkS2 with the same thing a player's grown accustomed to in Dark Souls, but a lot of these weapons are no longer useful because of their adjustments. A lot of these weapons (Murakumo, for instance) can completely miss enemies at close range, which was a problem in the original Dark Souls but is even more of a problem now in the sequel. There are a few exceptions but they shouldn't be punishing the player for picking (dexterity) if the mass majority of the movesets are inferior to the previous game or bad in some way.
- Incentive to PvP
There really is no incentive to invade and kill someone any more. Most of the incentives from covenants aren't worth the time and effort (1000+ fights for the Ring of Thorns +2?), especially things like "a shiny glowy aurea if you're in the Brotherhood covenant". Maybe if I was 14 and still wanted that ridiculously bright aura obtained only after reaching level 99 in Ragnarok Online, I'd care. Everyone just uses the Ring of Life Protection so it's not like you're even affecting them in any way. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that a lot of the covenant upgrades for your "loyalty" aren't worthwhile, especially in comparison to DkS where things like the Sunlight blade and Darkmoon Blade were covenant upgrades. Darkmoon Blade and Sunlight Blade, among other things like obtaining the infinite Red Eye Orb, were significant things. I will agree that covenants are generally better than DkS though.
- Tons of last minute changes between the network test and final retail version
This bothers me a lot, especially if they're doing such changes as Resistance to Adapatability. They changed Titchy Gren's voice entirely as well, to something much inferior as far as I'm concerned:
Beta https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2G-NF1vmtMo#t=20
Retail https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=l8oisLxidFc#t=71
They've changed various songs, and god knows what else to the game from the time between the network test and the final version. This leads me to believe the game was largely rushed.
- False advertising?
I'm a console gamer and anyone who knows me knows I mostly play 2D games, so know thoroughly that I don't care about graphics over gameplay. But yeah, you'd be lying to yourself if you thought these graphics were on par with what we saw in the network test or from the various trailers. It looks like shit in comparison to the trailers. Remember when they were showing that rockin' lantern with a character progressing downwards with a burning torch, and everyone thought that it was going to be the reincarnation of 2-2? Turns out it's just a small part of a late game memory. Or the very early footage of DkS2 which showed Aldia's Keep being progressed through in the opposite direction, with the skeleton?
- Soft caps, stats in general
Is everyone expected to have 20 Vigor, 20 Vitality, 20 Endurance with 40 in Strength or Dexterity or Int, or a mix of Strength/Faith or Strength/Int? It feels like the caps on VGR/VIT/END seriously limit people to what they're capable of doing with their character. As a result, a lot of people are saying that the PvP range should be raised to 150 or so, just because there's so many caps and so many spells/hexes which require a high level of them.
- Writing
I'm the last person who cares about the lore, but even I noticed that a lot of it is half-assed this time around. It's a little hard to believe that Dark Souls II is set so far into the future that the whole tone of item descriptions has changed. I feel like the item descriptions on a few things could have done with a better translation or possibly even been more thought out, especially considering how the fanbase paid so much attention to the lore of Dark Souls. I understand that these games are intentionally vague, but when there's nothing more than a linear description and nothing more to go by, or "this was owned by x who lived in x", it doesn't leave anything to the imagination.
I'm going to stop here, but I do have other finer issues with the game. In short: better PvE excluding bosses, worse everything else. Seriously, I think this game was rushed. I expect 10+ patches within the next year.
The Xtortionist
Member
What? You can start at Heide's from the beginning, kill the bosses there, then either continue to No-Man's Wharf/Bastille, buy Silvercat Ring (pop Heide boss souls to afford it) and go to The Pit, or open the path to Huntsman's Copse. The latter two paths will yield Fragrant Branches of Yore that unlock the Shaded Woods path. I'm pretty sure Forest of Fallen Giants is completely optional
until late game
I mentioned it earlier but a lot of people seem to have forgot (or never saw) how inferior Dark Souls 1 was on release compared to what it is today. Even discounting the potential improvements in the PC version I have no doubt that in a year or so DS 2 will be refined a lot compared to how it is now (and it's already more polished than DS1 was on release).
I can't even say it's hyperbole to say that level looks like something out of a PS2 game, and the first half is also linear as hell. On the other hand the foggy section is one of the most unique setpieces in the game and the ruins part is much better structurally (even if it still doesn't look great). That first section is by far the most conspicuously bad section in the game.
At least compared to Dark Souls 1 this is plain objectively wrong; there's literally one easily accessible and beatable (at least when you get good) boss standing in the way of you blowing the whole early game wide open, and the fact there are multiple ways down the well before you even unlock the "story" method to get down is a point in it's favour.
So just like Dark Souls? Like half the things you mentioned were far worse in the original release of DS1.
Edit:
If you're hammering X in front of a wall and it's not working then the sign is bullshitting you, the game specifically prioritises illusory walls over signs.
Edit 2:
Also, the reason a higher level cap for duelling is being proposed is because the game is longer and you level up much more even on your first run, and there are more viable stats between builds, not because of some sort of diminishing returns issue.
Sakura
Member
Personally I think Dark Souls 2 is the best game in the series. I never finished Dark Souls or Demon's Souls. I found they weren't very approachable, and I never felt like I had a good grasp of what I was doing. It seemed unfairly frustrating in many parts, requiring you to memorise patterns and areas rather than actually be good.
Dark Souls 2 so far has really grabbed me, I think it's a lot more accessible, it is much easier but not in a bad way. I always feel powerful but not too powerful. The gameplay feels smoother and I like a number of the changes they've made. There are some things that suck (the lag in opening the start menu at times for example) but for the most part it's a really solid game and feels well put together.
Dark Souls 2 so far has really grabbed me, I think it's a lot more accessible, it is much easier but not in a bad way. I always feel powerful but not too powerful. The gameplay feels smoother and I like a number of the changes they've made. There are some things that suck (the lag in opening the start menu at times for example) but for the most part it's a really solid game and feels well put together.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I agree with pretty much everything you said.
I think Dark Souls II has much better level design for the most part. My favorite game in the series is Demon's, so I enjoyed being able to warp to the level I want to play and warp out when I'm done.
Online is also leagues better than Dark 1, and I personally thought it had funner bosses. Dark 1 has the edge on atmosphere and sound though.
Online is also leagues better than Dark 1, and I personally thought it had funner bosses. Dark 1 has the edge on atmosphere and sound though.
I don't want to come off as a prick, but If you never finished the previous game (and by the sounds of it, perhaps never gone that far) then I don't know it is fair to say DS2 is the best in the series, even if it is your opinion.
Sakura
Member
How so? If the game didn't enthral me enough to play it through to completion, while the latest one does, I can't say I enjoy the latest one more? I have to see the credits roll in order to know whether or not I was enjoying something?
I think you are making a false assumption that the version of the game we played during the network test was the most current version of the game at that time. The purpose of that test was just to evaluate the online infrastructure, and they could (and probably did) utilize an older, more stable build. That is a standard practice in software development. As far as we know, they could have introduced Adaptability months before the network test occurred.
PVP was better in Dark Souls 1, imo. When they made medium poise worthless they made it so any short weapon is worthless in pvp. You need to be able to take at least one hit without stagger or else the guy with the higher damage weapon will just trade blow with you till he wins. The way they made the roll speed the same from 0-70%(Even if there are distance differences) also messed with the dynamic. Shield users used to be on the medium roll on average, now they can dodge the same blows that light 2-handers can dodge with ease. Also, in order to compensate for how poise has been nerfed, everyone is wandering around in a mixture of Vengarl and havel armor, and they're still able to roll like pros.
Also, at first I had thought that backstabbing had become significantly harder, but I was wrong. The way you get an easy backstab is different now, but it's still pretty easy to pull off. I've been getting a ton of backstabs in pvp now, and I'm not really fond of backstabbing.
Dark souls 1 pvp was not perfect. Poise was OP. But instead of finding a happy medium where poise is useful but not OP, they decided to just throw it out the window for anyone wearing less than havels armor.
And I didn't even get into how soul memory ruined invasions in NG.
Also, at first I had thought that backstabbing had become significantly harder, but I was wrong. The way you get an easy backstab is different now, but it's still pretty easy to pull off. I've been getting a ton of backstabs in pvp now, and I'm not really fond of backstabbing.
Dark souls 1 pvp was not perfect. Poise was OP. But instead of finding a happy medium where poise is useful but not OP, they decided to just throw it out the window for anyone wearing less than havels armor.
And I didn't even get into how soul memory ruined invasions in NG.
The soul memory restriction removed in NG+, yeah? One of the biggest complaints by people in Dark Souls was low level invasion builds and griefers. For NG, soul memory is a pretty good compromise to prevent this type of activity from messing with new players, while still offering a good amount of matchmaking. If you want to pvp and Sunbro to your hearts content, go to NG+.
I like Dark Souls better so far. But 2 is extremely good as well.
I disagree with Dark Souls late areas being bad. Lost Izalith had a great atmosphere/architecture. Boss was terrible, though. And I liked Duke's Archives, reminded me of Lovecraft's The Shadow Out of Time. Tomb of Giant/New Londo were decent areas. And the last boss was extremely solid. When you compare with Demon's Soul shitty end boss/last area there's no contest.
I like that Dark Souls 2 didn't try to reiterate the architecture of Dark Souls, because as much as I loved it, it's not the kind of stuff you can pull twice. Another vertical, connected world would have feel weird. So, I can see why they tried something different. Sometimes it feels unnatural and overwhelming because there are too many areas, some of them being really pointless, underused or redundant, but overall the level design is still good.
I disagree with Dark Souls late areas being bad. Lost Izalith had a great atmosphere/architecture. Boss was terrible, though. And I liked Duke's Archives, reminded me of Lovecraft's The Shadow Out of Time. Tomb of Giant/New Londo were decent areas. And the last boss was extremely solid. When you compare with Demon's Soul shitty end boss/last area there's no contest.
I like that Dark Souls 2 didn't try to reiterate the architecture of Dark Souls, because as much as I loved it, it's not the kind of stuff you can pull twice. Another vertical, connected world would have feel weird. So, I can see why they tried something different. Sometimes it feels unnatural and overwhelming because there are too many areas, some of them being really pointless, underused or redundant, but overall the level design is still good.
hokagespit
Member
i love them all!
dark souls 2 is p fucking awesome i watch or play it almost constantly when im not working. having new things pop up in ng+ makes it friggen awesome.
i feel like theres a bit more mystery than dark souls. not the same level as demons but closer. nothing like what must be done to find yuria. which i do love. i will probably play 2 more than one now but thats just because its newer to me.
i can play a good chunk of dark souls blindfolded as long as enemies do the right things. sometimes they throw a loop and mess me up. but i think itl take a lot longer for me to get to that kind of point in 2
dark souls 2 is p fucking awesome i watch or play it almost constantly when im not working. having new things pop up in ng+ makes it friggen awesome.
i feel like theres a bit more mystery than dark souls. not the same level as demons but closer. nothing like what must be done to find yuria. which i do love. i will probably play 2 more than one now but thats just because its newer to me.
i can play a good chunk of dark souls blindfolded as long as enemies do the right things. sometimes they throw a loop and mess me up. but i think itl take a lot longer for me to get to that kind of point in 2
Tomb of Giants was scary and very well designed. LI was a massive lava pit filled with dragon butts and a short trek to the worst boss of the series.
Lost of Izalith is mostly just a pit of lava filled with 30 copies of the same lame enemy.
It's as if From just said fuck it and didn't even bother trying.
I don't know why anyone considers 'that' last boss as the 'last' boss, it's clear who the proper last boss was and its great. Lots of games have 'event' bosses after the end.
I think I'll be signing this one.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
With all these complaints I'm curious what the first big patch is going to change.