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[Red Liquorice]

Bold/underlined section: Isn't that a one time use only ring though?

Repair it for 3000 souls.


In answer to the OP - I think DS2 is the wost of the 3, it's still a great game, it's just the other two are better. The sequel benefits from being a sequel, so it fixes some things - but breaks others, just like DS1 did after Demon's. And in terms of level design and enemy encounters it fails big time. Is there anything as tight as Sen's in DS2? I didn't see it. Some areas were just down right boring, and I'm thinking of some of the later game areas here, not the early ones which I think are tight fun to play and explore.

I do think it's a good balance between DeS and DaS style. You have branching paths from the start much the same as DS1, the warping makes the game feel more like DeS, even though in reality all 3 games are set up pretty much the same. Several long branching paths that end in deadends, it's just DS1 had a little more Metroidvania going on in the first half - which was magnificent, I loved it - but the second half you see each path ends in the same deadends as DeS and DS2, so they're all pretty much the same on that front.

The menus in DS2 swap one problem for another imo. I think they're less laborious to scroll through because more items are on screen, but it's more difficult to navigate and I haven't found a way to reorder things like the previous game (is there a way?) so I find the icons more difficult to use, the item name being bottom left is more difficult to use, darting your eyes up and down after every item selection. The armour isn't as visually appealing either. And I think there are way too many consumable items just to cover all bases.

It feels like they tried to merge Demon's and Dark, it feels as much of a sequel to Demon's as it does Dark to me, and they did that meshing of the two well - I'm just not sure it was to the end game's benefit.

 

[Zoggy]

Definitely agree with that. Dark Souls 1 is very simple once you know how to play it and don't artificially limit yourself with arbitrary constraints like doing a SL1 run. Dark Souls 2 isn't harder but it isn't easier either. Dark Souls 2 is just really similar on a mechanical level so your DS1 skills transfer pretty well to DS2.

I find normal enemies stronger in DS2, especially in the starting areas. Bosses are on average about as hard as in Dark Souls 1, -ie. not really hard-. Both games have a couple of stand-out bosses difficulty wise (Ornstein & Smough in DS, Darklurker in DS2 for example).

would like to third this. many boss fights in ds1 are replicated in ds2 and many players are accustomed to the mechanics of the souls games now (rather than being completely oblivious like they were in ds1) so of course they find this one easier.

 

[Jobbs]

Dark Souls 2 makes improvements in some areas, like much better animation and the cloth physics are rather glorious. We also have a meatier game with more actual geography to go through.

That said, generally speaking, I think the first game is clearly better. It has a much more unified vision in terms of its overall design, and speaking in terms of the level design and geography, it feels much more cohesive, like one coherent world, where you can see how everything connects up -- clearly -- just by looking at it. Everything is laid out logically and you can see where everything is from everywhere else. It's sublime.

By contrast, one thing that takes me out of Dark Souls 2 is how segmented the game feels. You walk through a tunnel and now you're in another world. Little tunnels and caves act as portals to other dimensions. It doesn't feel very believable as one real place, instead, it feels like many different places.

 

[Randam]

Bold/underlined section: Isn't that a one time use only ring though?

you can repair it for 3000 souls.

 

[Stoze]

Does anybody think it's possible that From added the fast travel as a way to expand beyond the niche-ish market of DeS and DaS1? Bring it to a bigger and more casual market? Fast travel sucks, to be honest. You don't feel immersed when you're fast travelling all the time. Don't feel like you're actually adventuring throughout the lands.

NB: there should be an option to disable fast travel and be allowed to level up at any bonfire.

No. Constant back-tracking is one of the main things that burnt me out on Dark Souls to the point of where I couldn't finish it. World continuity is nice and creates an extra bit of atmosphere, but not enough to overshadow the tedium and boredom you get from backtracking. Once I've put in 40+ hours into these games, things like backtracking really destroy my interest.

I still feel like I'm adventuring, and like Dark Souls you can take most paths all the way back to the start without loading if you so desire, the exceptions being points like the Gutter or Great Soul bosses.

You can disable fast travel, just don't use it unless absolutely necessary, i.e. primal bonfires.

 

[Red Liquorice]

What "constant backtracking" are you doing in DS1? Like what areas, what part of the game. I can't think of where this (common) complaint comes from.

 

[Randam]

By contrast, one thing that takes me out of Dark Souls 2 is how segmented the game feels. You walk through a tunnel and now you're in another world. Little tunnels and caves act as portals to other dimensions. It doesn't feel very believable as one real place, instead, it feels like many different places.

like, when you leave aldia's keep to face the guardian dragon.


and where was constant back-tracking in dark 1?

 

[Yoshichan]

I disliked every intern-made-map that came after Anor Londo.
I disliked how shit the covenants were.
I disliked the abysmal framerate in Blighttown.

Are the three above fixed in DkS2? Buying this soon.

 

[soontroll]

I disliked every intern-made-map that came after Anor Londo.
I disliked how shit the covenants were.
I disliked the abysmal framerate in Blighttown.

Are the three above fixed in DkS2? Buying this soon.

From what I've heard, they are fixed. This is what's getting me excited to play it too, despite all the criticism the game has been getting. Post-Anor Londo just felt like a tedious chore for me (though maybe the prison area of Duke's was pretty fun).

 

[Stoze]

What "constant backtracking" are you doing in DS1? Like what areas, what part of the game. I can't think of where this (common) complaint comes from.

and where was constant back-tracking in dark 1?

Whenever I wanted to go back to an area that I've visited/cleared out previously that wasn't Firelink Shrine? That's backtracking in my book. I can't remember specific areas that annoyed me with that, it's been a while since I've played it. Needless to say running around the world started to lose its charm for me.

If I had to sprint through the majority of Lost Bastille just to get boss weapons, or the beginning to visit the main blacksmith, that would get old fast.

 

[Bedlam]

like, when you leave aldia's keep to face the guardian dragon.

Hands down the best transition of the game despite how jarring it is. I love that view.

I still can't wrap my head around the Earthen Peak>Iron Keep elevator though. It's like they accidentally inserted it upside down or something. What were they thinking? It makes absolutely no sense how these levels are connected and situated in relation to each other.

and where was constant back-tracking in dark 1?

Yeah I don't get that complaint either. There is a little bit of revisiting old areas but that's just inherent to the Metroidvania-formula and an aspect that I love dearly because it really strenghens the sense of place and of a connected world. And that's exactly what DS2 lacks. It feels like a collection of disjointed places partly because of the constant warping (the other part are the lazy and nonsensical transitions).

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

Haven't beaten II yet, but there are a lot of little things I really appreciate design wise. I've been really impressed with it so far

Can't really say its better than DS1 yet, especially since the 4 DLC bosses were so god damn epic and amazing in that game.

 

[Randam]

Whenever I wanted to go back to an area that I've visited/cleared out previously that wasn't Firelink Shrine? That's backtracking in my book. I can't remember specific areas that annoyed me with that, it's been a while since I've played it. Needless to say running around the world started to lose its charm for me.

If I had to sprint through the majority of Lost Bastille just to get boss weapons, or the beginning to visit the main blacksmith, that would get old fast.

so Maughlin isn't getting much business in your game. huh?

 

[SmokedMeat]

Been hoping for a PS4 version so I've pretty much stayed away, but had a free Redbox rental code and gave it a shot.

Didn't get too far into the game but I'm not feeling it the way I did with Demons Souls and DS1. Enemies didn't feel threatening and I really disliked the level setup where it's a bland section with fog doors to go through. Previous games seemed to throw me right into the action rather than big sections of nothing.

I should mention I was tired and had far less patience, but I wasn't too impressed so far. This was done by a different team right?

 

[iuuk]

Yeah I don't get that complaint either. There is a little bit of revisiting old areas but that's just inherent to the Metroidvania-formula and an aspect that I love dearly because it really strenghens the sense of place and for the world. And that's exactly what DS2 lacks. It feels like a collection of disjointed places partly because of the constant warping.

I usually don't like this remark, because it seems like an easy way out of a discussion, but it really is 'because people are different'.

I actually quit playing Dark Souls one because of the backtracking and much preferred the 'do whatever you want if you don't feel like playing through this part' style of Demons (picked it up again in December last year, liked it better then). Dark II brought that back for me. After getting somewhere you can leave it be and play something else until you feel like actually finishing the area. I like the diversity it provides way better than the cohesiveness of Dark 1.

 

[Red Liquorice]

Whenever I wanted to go back to an area that I've visited/cleared out previously that wasn't Firelink Shrine? That's backtracking in my book. I can't remember specific areas that annoyed me with that, it's been a while since I've played it. Needless to say running around the world started to lose its charm for me.

If I had to sprint through the majority of Lost Bastille just to get boss weapons, or the beginning to visit the main blacksmith, that would get old fast.

I can't think of a time where you needed to revisit cleared areas, maybe for a merchant? In which case that's no different to sitting through several loading screens in DS2 to get to merchants in odd locations or even just to level up. And they give you multiple ways of going back to a bonfire even before getting the lord vessel.

You go to the blacksmith, you warp back, that's no biggie to me and it's in all 3 games.

 

[iuuk]

I can't think of a time where you needed to revisit cleared areas, maybe for a merchant? In which case that's no different to sitting through several loading screens in DS2 to get to merchants in odd locations or even just to level up. And they give you multiple ways of going back to a bonfire even before getting the lord vessel.

You go to the blacksmith, you warp back, that's no biggie to me and it's in all 3 games.

But by the time you could warp you already finished the best part of the game though. Apart from that, I sometimes like doing areas again, either for finding secrets, or just for fun. It's not as fun when I need to go through a different area to get there.

 

[Randam]

Hands down the best transition of the game despite how jarring it is. I love that view.

the weather is completely different and the area too.

imo as inconsequent as the iron keep part.

 

[Red Liquorice]

But by the time you could warp you already finished the best part of the game though. Apart from that, I sometimes like doing areas again, either for finding secrets, or just for fun. It's not as fun when I need to go through a different area to get there.

Like I said, you can warp from the start - homeward bone, miracle, dark sign. Say I'm in Blighttown, I done fucked up and I need to buy something, I run to the merchant and homebone back. If that's backtracking, I'm fine with it because it's in all 3 games, it's never changed. They just switched a quick run for a loading screen.

 

[Randam]

But by the time you could warp you already finished the best part of the game though. Apart from that, I sometimes like doing areas again, either for finding secrets, or just for fun. It's not as fun when I need to go through a different area to get there.

imo that made the game better.
better than demon's and way better than part 2.


that you had to "get" to some merchants, that you could get stuck in some areas when not prepared.

 

[iuuk]

Like I said, you can warp from the start - homeward bone, miracle, dark sign. Say I'm in Blighttown, I done fucked up and I need to buy something, I run to the merchant and homebone back. If that's backtracking, I'm fine with it because it's in all 3 games, it's never changed. They just switched a quick run for a loading screen.

Not everything was a quick run, at least not the way I played it. Getting stuck in blighttown was infuriating because of it. I would have loved just to leave it be and finish it later if I could, but the game didn't allow for that.

imo that made the game better.
better than demon's and way better than part 2.


that you had to "get" to some merchants, that you could get stuck in some areas when not prepared.

That's fine, I can understand that's why people prefer Dark 1, but that kind of comes back to 'people are different'. To me it made the game more annoying, and with blighttown (not knowing the shortcut when I first started playing, and the crappy framerate) almost unbearably frustrating.

 

[dralla]

Dark Souls went to complete garbage after Anor Lando. If the last quarter of the game didn't exist it would be an incredible game. But because of that, I would say it's the weakest game in the series, which is a shame because I think it still offers the best moments between all the games. Essentially DS has the highest highs but the lowest lows, and it's wildly inconsistent. DS2 has problems of its own with consistency. I think both games would be much better off if they were shorter. Not only would they be better but they'd be better suited for NG+ runs. Demons Soul's, for its time, is still the best. It never quite reaches the high points of Dark Souls, but it's consistently great throughout with no filler or gimmicks, with one exception (Dragon God).

 

[Stoze]

so Maughlin isn't getting much business in your game. huh?

Nope, because he dosen't sell boss weapons.

Spoiler

And I didn't know he even sold boss armor until your post . That's where everybody has been getting those Smelter Demon heads.

I can't think of a time where you needed to revisit cleared areas, maybe for a merchant? In which case that's no different to sitting through several loading screens in DS2 to get to merchants in odd locations or even just to level up. And they give you multiple ways of going back to a bonfire even before getting the lord vessel.

You go to the blacksmith, you warp back, that's no biggie to me and it's in all 3 games.

Several? Just one man, one loading screen to go to any other bonfire in the game, and they're like 15 seconds at their longest. Maybe merchants? More likely I have a very completionist attitude and feel the need to go back and check items I don't know their purpose of on previous objects/locations, or NPC's/objects I couldn't react with before and felt the need to try again. Just trekking in general in the game wore on me I suppose.

 

[Red Liquorice]

^ There's two loading screens every time you level up or use a merchant.

Not everything was a quick run, at least not the way I played it. Getting stuck in blighttown was infuriating because of it. I would have loved just to leave it be and finish it later if I could, but the game didn't allow for that.

Everything up to the point of where you are in the game is a "finished area" apparently, so it seems like a simple of job of running past everything you've already killed and know the area layout of to get to where you want to go and homeward bone back and do the area later if you can't handle it yet.

That's the joy of the gamestyle for me, I like the design choices in the series of having enemy placements and aggro ranges - by the time you've cleared an area you're familiar with all that and can use it to your advantage if need be.

In the end, some people always preferred the warping, chopped up level style of DeS and some preferred the connected world or DS1. That discussion continues in DS2.

 

[Randam]

Nope, because he dosen't sell boss weapons.

Spoiler

And I didn't know he even sold boss armor until your post . That's where everybody has been getting those Smelter Demon heads.

but be warned, it is a pretty long walk from the majula bonfire.

and yeah, 1 loading screen to get to the merchant/level up lady and 1 to get back.

and maybe you guys are all playing the download version, but loadtimes are not 15 seconds and way longer than in demon's and dark 1

 

[Stoze]

^ There's two loading screens every time you level up or use a merchant.

You're right, but that's still not several...

In the end, some people always preferred the warping, chopped up level style of DeS and some preferred the connected world or DS1. That discussion continues in DS2.

Yeah, exactly. I can see where people's disappointment came in for those who loved DS1 in that regard. I also think it should be realized that a larger yet segmented world could also be a strong pro for those like me instead of a con.

but be warned, it is a pretty long walk from the majula bonfire.

and yeah, 1 loading screen to get to the merchant/level up lady and 1 to get back.

and maybe you guys are all playing the download version, but loadtimes are not 15 seconds and way longer than in demon's and dark 1

He still dosen't sell boss weapons, which is what I buy with boss souls, and what I said in my other post.

I'm playing on 360 version installed from disk. They are definitely not more than 15 seconds from my experience, and I can't even remember any outliers where they were longer. The loading in this game was not an annoyance for me. I remember testing this and counting a few loading screens when someone brought this up in the OT.

 

[Randam]

He still dosen't sell boss weapons, which is what I buy with boss souls, and what I said in my other post.

are you realy buying the many boss weapons?
and that often?

and if you knew how, no merchant/blacksmith was hard to get to in part 1.
not even the giant, or vamos.

 

[njean777]

I must be the only person who liked demon ruins and lost izalith. Idk what you people are smoking but those parts were awesome. Even BoC was cool because it was a change up from just dueling a boss. Ds2's change up is the chariot boss, both games have at least one. Any who I agree with the warping hate, I don't care for being able to warp to places as it does make the world less consistent.

 

[Bedlam]

I must be the only person who liked demon ruins and lost izalith. Idk what you people are smoking but those parts were awesome. Even BoC was cool because it was a change up from just dueling a boss. Ds2's change up is the chariot boss, both games have at least one. Any who I agree with the warping hate, I don't care for being able to warp to places as it does make the world less consistent.

I'm with you.

I liked Lost Izalith, I liked TotG and I really loved Blighttown and The Depths. I think these are the most essential Souls-levels in the whole franchise.

(I particularly liked those areas pre-patch, when the early Skull Lantern drops wouldn't trivialize the first part of TotG, and when you actually still had to fight the dinosaur butts in Lost Izalith)

Frankly, I miss tense experiences like those in DS2. This is also why DS2 is a much less memorable experience for me. There are really no tense areas, no emotionals highs and lows anymore. Most DS2 levels are streamlined cookie-cutter stuff unfortunately.

 

[Stoze]

are you realy buying the many boss weapons?
and that often?

and if you knew who, no merchant/blacksmith was hard to get to in part 1.
not even the giant, or vamos.

I was before I beat the game, yeah. Why wouldn't I? I don't need the souls because I have so many already, and I like to have as many weapons as possible because I want to see each of their movesets. Plus they look cool, and I love the fact that I can be rewarded with a boss's weapon by killing them. Seems pretty logical to me.

That's the thing, I didn't know who. I went into both these games blind and I don't use a guide unless I beat the game or am completely stuck. I ask questions sometimes about things I'm extra curious about on here, and that's it. Hence the reason I had no idea about Maughlin's extra wares.

 

[TeddyShardik]

I'm with you.

I liked Lost Izalith, I liked TotG and I really loved Blighttown and The Depths. I think these are the most essential Souls-levels in the whole franchise.

(I particularly liked those areas pre-patch, when the early Skull Lantern drops wouldn't trivialize the first part of TotG, and when you actually still had to fight the dinosaur butts in Lost Izalith)

Frankly, I miss tense experiences like those in DS2. This is also why DS2 is a much less memorable experience for me. There are really no tense areas, no emotionals highs and lows anymore. Most DS2 levels are streamlined cookie-cutter stuff unfortunately.

I agree on Lost Izalith pre patch. Not because of the dragon butts but because of the lava. Remember you could mess up and not get the Orange Charred Ring from the Centipede Demon? >.< Yeah that was tense as hell.
Now it might just as well be a big empty room. You just run through to the worst boss in the game and be done with it.

 

[Randam]

I was before I beat the game, yeah. Why wouldn't I? I don't need the souls because I have so many already, and I like to have as many weapons as possible because I want to see each of their movesets. Plus they look cool, and I love the fact that I can be rewarded with a boss's weapon by killing them. Seems pretty logical to me.

That's the thing, I didn't know who. I went into both these games blind and I don't use a guide unless I beat the game or am completely stuck. I ask questions sometimes about things I'm extra curious about on here, and that's it. Hence the reason I had no idea about Maughlin's extra wares.

what didn't you know?

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

I actually never saw LI as "bad" (remember the level of quality of Souls level design is so high as to make it look "bad" in comparison to say Sen's). That's what places like Forest of Fallen Giants feel like in 2, just "ok" and would be the best area of lesser games, but look "bad" to what I'm working thru now.

no, the fast travel is there to make the game a less of a drag (even if there were shortcuts ds1 style, once you got the lordvessel you'd warp to bonfires anyway)

there's nothing wrong with allowing the warping. if you really hate it just don't warp. its not that big of a deal. you want an option to disable warping, just don't do it, jesus christ.

the reason why i don't think they allowed warping to "appeal to da casuals" (god i hate dark souls purists) is because they returned back to the demons souls method of leveling up only at the nexus (firelink shrine/nexus).

why do you have to go back to the hubworld to level again instead of any bonfire? i don't know, maybe from just wanted to be a dick, it doesn't matter.

dark souls 2 WAS NOT nerfed to appeal to casuals (aka people who don't have the time to invest in video games as much as you), so stop reaching for that strawman

God, I hope this was tongue-in-cheek.

 

[HeelPower]

no, the fast travel is there to make the game a less of a drag (even if there were shortcuts ds1 style, once you got the lordvessel you'd warp to bonfires anyway)

there's nothing wrong with allowing the warping. if you really hate it just don't warp. its not that big of a deal. you want an option to disable warping, just don't do it, jesus christ.

the reason why i don't think they allowed warping to "appeal to da casuals" (god i hate dark souls purists) is because they returned back to the demons souls method of leveling up only at the nexus (firelink shrine/nexus).

why do you have to go back to the hubworld to level again instead of any bonfire? i don't know, maybe from just wanted to be a dick, it doesn't matter.

dark souls 2 WAS NOT nerfed to appeal to casuals (aka people who don't have the time to invest in video games as much as you), so stop reaching for that strawman

I agree.I don't think the game was ever made easier to appeal to new comers at all.

I think Dark Souls 2 could probably destroy any "casual" player just like any of its predecessors.

Warping doesn't make the game easier just kinda boring.

 

[AuthenticM]

I like it better than either Dark Souls or Demon's Souls. Better interface, better level design, better graphics, better gameplay mechanics; just better everything, really.

discombobulated

what

 

[Ferr986]

I hate LI, but other than that, I dont get the complains that the second half of DS1 is like some hot garbage. Its not as good as the first part, but the Archives, the Tomb and New Londo are still awesome stages IMO.

 

[Steel]

I hate LI, but other than that, I dont get the complains that the second half of DS1 is like some hot garbage. Its not as good as the first part, but the Archives, the Tomb and New Londo are still awesome stages IMO.

It's funny. New Londo, Duke's Archives and Tomb of Giants are my favorite areas in Dark Souls 1(add in Painted world even if it is optional). In fact Duke's Archives+Crystal Cave are my favorite areas in the series.

 

[tokkun]

First, I have to say, hiding behind a greatshield in dark Souls 1 in pvp wasn't nearly as effective as you make it out to be. Someone 2-handing an ultra greatsword, or even a falchion could crack them with swings to spare if built right. In fact, I'd argue the opposite of what you're saying here: A person with a greatshield is actually more effective at blocking in Dark Souls 2 because of the 70% barrier.

A person with a great sheild in Dark Souls 1 generally couldn't move very fast, so you'd be able to go to town with combos on his shield till his guard breaks. Now, you can get 1-2 hits depending on the weapon before you have to stop slashing and move up on the guy to eventually whittle down his stamina, in this case, you could hit the enemy more often with long range weapons and short range weapons have nothing but disadvantages.

Well, I guess we have a disagreement on fact, then. All I can say is that I had a build with Greatshield of Artorias in DS, and pretty much never had people breaking my guard. In contrary, in DS2, an upgraded Havel's Greatshield can get its guard broken relatively easily even by medium weapons.

Poise is not replaced by staggering opponents who are out of stamina, either. You get a nice little critical hit animation that does a reasonable amount of damage, but you would be able to get 2-3 slashes in the dark souls 1 stagger in its place.

The front critical is better than 2-3 slashes since the knockdown gives the attacker a chance to recover their vitality and possibly also use an item or spell.

You're thinking about this the wrong way. A light build cannot have 0 vitality, it's just not possible. In fact, 20 levels in vitality is a reasonable goal even for a light in this case(Who would still want the roll distance advantage lower percentages give for PvE), and it really doesn't drag down your other stats. Because of this light would need at least 15 points in vitality, which would give him, what, a 5 point advantage in the other stats you mentioned?

No, I said "put 20 levels into vitality", i.e. 20 levels more than my base vitality. That would give a ~15 point advantage.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not completely hating Dark Souls 2 pvp. There's fun to be had here, and I hold my own in the light class, though I do far better using a long range weapon now than a short range one. My statement was that Dark Souls 1 pvp was superior and that the changes to how poise and weight percentage functions in Dark Souls 2 made a lot more people wear havel's and Vengarl's armor. If you play pvp for any length of time, you'd see what I mean.

Did you play Dark Souls 1 PVP in the same launch window? Do you remember the pre-patch Fog Ring? Tranquil Walk, Giant Sword? Everyone using lightning weapons because stat scaling was useless? All the people using Elite Knight set?

I am not trying to say there are no balance issues present in DS2, but in my opinion, the PvP is a lot better balanced out-the-gate than it was in DS1. When you change mechanics, you have to expect that it will take time to figure out all the balance quirks.

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

Dark Souls 2 makes improvements in some areas, like much better animation...

I wouldn't call the floatiness an improvement.

 

[tiny raptor]

the thread to end all threads

 

[Steel]

Did you play Dark Souls 1 PVP in the same launch window? Do you remember the pre-patch Fog Ring? Tranquil Walk, Giant Sword? Everyone using lightning weapons because stat scaling was useless? All the people using Elite Knight set?

I am not trying to say there are no balance issues present in DS2, but in my opinion, the PvP is a lot better balanced out-the-gate than it was in DS1. When you change mechanics, you have to expect that it will take time to figure out all the balance quirks.

Dark souls 1 pvp was outright broken in that respect out of the gate. It got tons better as time went on, yeah(Granted, I never really got the fuss about fog ring cause I barely ever lock-on). I'm not comparing DS 2 pvp out-of-the-gate to out-of-the-gate Dark souls 1 though. I'll give you that Dark Souls 2 will have inevitable patches that may make the situation better, and those patches might make Dark Souls 2 pvp far better than it is now, perhaps even better than Dark Souls 1 pvp as it now. Also, I'm not even going so far as to say Dark Souls 1 pvp was perfect, I mentioned before that poise was overpowered in it(Though, since anyone could equip the wolf ring which gave almost as much poise as elite knight there were still a large variety of options).

I'm simply saying that what they did with poise was make it so the majority of people use havel's armor to get the same effect they did in Dark Souls 1 with a minimal cost while no one else gets any benefit from it. It severely limits viable build options for people who don't go that route.

As for your other points:

The front critical is better than 2-3 slashes since the knockdown gives the attacker a chance to recover their vitality and possibly also use an item or spell.

Perhaps, but it still does not replace being able to take a hit without staggering. It's a minor change in comparison.

Well, I guess we have a disagreement on fact, then. All I can say is that I had a build with Greatshield of Artorias in DS, and pretty much never had people breaking my guard. In contrary, in DS2, an upgraded Havel's Greatshield can get its guard broken relatively easily even by medium weapons.

I honestly never had trouble getting past someone's greatsheild in DS 1, so your experience is counter to my own. You can break shields in both games in a relatively straightforward manner, just Dark Souls 2 gives the shield user more of an opportunity to down their guard inbetween hits with the standardized movement speed under 70% to get their stamina back.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Demons Souls.

But all of these games are amazing. I remember hearing someone say that even the worst episode of The Sopranos was better than 95% of the garbage on TV. That's the Souls series.

 

[super-famicom]

What memes has DS2 spawned? Dark Souls had stuff like "that's real Nito," GIANTDAD, casul, Solaire/praising instensifies, etc. I know some of you guys think they may be dumb, but they made the DS OTs fun. With DS2, I have seen this kind of thing yet. Maybe its still too early because people are working on finishing NG.

Personally, I really really like and enjoy DS2, but I love Dark Souls. The way every place in Lordran is connected is amazing, and really makes going through the game a lot of fun (fuck Lost Izalith though). Drangleic has a better "home base," with Majula being nicer than Firelink, but a lot of the areas being on "separate spokes on a wheel" (taking Majula to be the center) don't feel as good to me. It's not a terrible thing, since I liked the Nexus and arch stones in Denin's Souls, but Lordran was overall a better game world to me.

 

[Sephzilla]

I'm really enjoying Dark Souls 2 and (I believe) I'm into the 2nd half of the game, and it seems noticeably better than the first half. But Demons and DS1 both feel a lot more polished. Like many others have said in this thread, DS2 is still better than a huge majority of what's out there in gaming right now - but it still feels like the weakest Souls game.

 

[SlickShoes]

The level design at the start of DS1 is superior to most of DS2. HOWEVER, overall DS2 is far superior as far as I am concerned.

New Londo, Lost Izalith, large parts of Anor Londo and a few other areas are truly abysmal. They are tacked on to the end of the game in some sort of attempt to make it a bit longer and force us through these supposedly great bosses that are all really easy to beat apart from bed of chaos which is probably one of the worst bosses in any game ever.

People have now romaticised DS1 to a level that this weird "it was the perfect game" comparison happens.

DS1 was a great game but it had plenty of flaws.

As for the boss fights, well they are more of the same really, if you play through 1 souls game you maybe will find the bosses hard, the next souls game you play you will not find the bosses as hard because you already know the boss mechanics that FROM like to use.

I think whatever souls game you played first will be your favourite, if a new player batters through DS2 and loves it, when he plays DeS or DS he will get a lesser experience because he already knows what to expect from the enemies.

 

[Sephzilla]

The level design at the start of DS1 is superior to most of DS2. HOWEVER, overall DS2 is far superior as far as I am concerned.

New Londo, Lost Izalith, large parts of Anor Londo and a few other areas are truly abysmal. They are tacked on to the end of the game in some sort of attempt to make it a bit longer and force us through these supposedly great bosses that are all really easy to beat apart from bed of chaos which is probably one of the worst bosses in any game ever.

People have now romaticised DS1 to a level that this weird "it was the perfect game" comparison happens.

DS1 was a great game but it had plenty of flaws.

As for the boss fights, well they are more of the same really, if you play through 1 souls game you maybe will find the bosses hard, the next souls game you play you will not find the bosses as hard because you already know the boss mechanics that FROM like to use.

I think whatever souls game you played first will be your favourite, if a new player batters through DS2 and loves it, when he plays DeS or DS he will get a lesser experience because he already knows what to expect from the enemies.

Eh...

I'll agree with you that Lost Izalith and the first half of Anor Londo are poorly designed, but New Londo is over all great and the Dark Souls DLC is probably the pinnacle of the franchise.

Regarding the bosses, I was a Demon's Souls late bloomer to played that game and went straight into Dark Souls on release day. The bosses in DaS still felt plenty challenging to me even with Demon's still fresh in my memory. The bosses in DS2 so far just feel like big let downs and are generally the easiest parts of their respective levels/worlds.

 

[Mman235]

What memes has DS2 spawned? Dark Souls had stuff like "that's real Nito," GIANTDAD, casul, Solaire/praising instensifies, etc. I know some of you guys think they may be dumb, but they made the DS OTs fun. With DS2, I have seen this kind of thing yet. Maybe its still too early because people are working on finishing NG

With a couple of exceptions it was at least a month or two before memes starting forming with DS 1, much longer than that in many cases (stuff like GIANTDAD only came about after patches had given PVP a history).

In short Hurrah for Wheel!

 

[Despera]

I think whatever souls game you played first will be your favourite

I played DeS and then DS1... And I think DS1 was an improvement in almost every aspect.

Haven't played much of DS2 yet so I can't really compare it to the other games, but so far there are some changes I like and some I don't... Overall it feels as good as a Souls game should.

 

[Gorillaz]

Yea the Giantdad joke didn't pick up till a year or so after release and patches

 

[MormaPope]

Dark Souls 2 has better atmosphere in general, while Dark Souls 1 has more intricate environments. Things feel more "lived in" in Dark Souls 1, while Dark Souls 2 has a really unique feeling for most of the game. After/during Anor Londo Dark Souls 1 is pretty muddled, progression feels stunted, the "I've been on a long and treacherous journey" feeling starts to go away quickly.

Meanwhile Drangelic Castle and onward is paced excellently. The story and physical progression in Dark Souls 2 is more exciting, intrigue is escalated, tension is escalated.