Relaxed Muscle
Member
Is not only the shadow casting, the lighting looks way more flat. Is not a matter or brighting or not. The number of light sources and the indoor lghting is completly butchered.
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#DarkSoulsDowngrade and #YOULIED \\ a.k.a You got some splainin' to do, Namco
- Thread starter Havel
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Is not only the shadow casting, the lighting looks way more flat. Is not a matter or brighting or not. The number of light sources and the indoor lghting is completly butchered.
That would be nice, All I wanted from this is some communication from either the devs or PR. I understand that releases are a carefully managed thing but a little honesty is expected. Considering they fostered that expectation with how they handled DS1 PTD I don't think that is unreasonable.
My day one purchase is now riding on the condition of the PC port so I'm thankful that I had advance warning.
They are intentionally not showing us the PC version to keep us in the dark. Asking questions will hopefully give us some information on the subject.
My fear is the people yelling about the downgrade will overwhelm anything else and we won't get any information. Why the downgrade happened is obvious, now lets get some actual information on the PC version.
These shots from the retail version show that the gifs that are floating areound are hyperbolic and cherry picked without torches to make the retail version look bad, clearly. These look near identical to the TGS demo. Can we move on now?
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Hey, if we'd have seen this version of the console version a month earlier maybe something could have been done there. Airing this grievance with a month before the PC version seriously underlines the "do not fuck this again" report card they're going to want to hit.
I got to make an informed decision and hope the PC version fixes some of this shit, but I do feel sorry for the console players that didn't see any of this in time or dont have the luxury to try the PC version. Hell, my aging 5570 may not even be up to the task I don't know!
And you can now regularly see more of the environment with the torch turned off, completely inverting an intended game mechanic. So no, this isn't "jobs a goodun, go home". God, people are just inordinately rattled by criticism of a product they have no financial hand in. A fuck up has occurred, we would like to see the fuckup corrected or at the least EXPLAINED before deciding when we move on.
Metalingus5150
Member
With the torch they look similar in THAT area. However, if you don't use the torch, you can see FINE!! It's ALL GREY not even dark. You can tell by ENEMY placement that the dark would hide them. I know this because I've played the part. There are moments in the game that look SIMILAR to the TGS build and there are moments that look FAR off from what we've seen earlier. Look at the Dark Souls 2 website, they're showing pictures of the old version, I CAN TELL the difference between those screenshots and what is out now. Also I don't think anything in the TGS demo can't be done on the ps3/360 at 720p 30fps.
Orthogonal
Member
The whole point was to show the torch mechanic is now useless because you can actually "see" better without the torch now in many area's, defeating the whole purpose of it. There are also numerous comparisons with torch's too that you seem to ignore or have missed that shows they still aren't up to par from earlier builds.
Nope. People who pre-ordered the game on consoles and who legitimately thought that the game would look like what they saw in the screenshots and trailers divulged so far (not to mention the ones which are on the back of the box of the retail version) were wronged.
No one questions that the game is still an enjoyable experience. But people were tricked, people who may not have pre-ordered the game on consoles if they knew the product would be so different graphic-wise (something which also affect not only the atmosphere but also the gameplay experience, since torch mecanics are now less important). And there was absolutly no communication about this downgrade, with the last images of the game two months before its release being radically different from what the game actually look like. People didn't buy what they tought they bought.
This is false advertising, and it should have legal consequences, the least of those would be to allow people who pre-ordered the game the possibility to be reimbursed in exchange of their copy of the game. That would be the bare minimum.
Next, since the back of the boxes of the console version of the game displays graphics which are not present in the game, such boxes should be switched with new ones displaying the actual graphics (because, once again, it's false advertising). Not to mention that other footages of the game available on the internet on their official YouTube channel (and especially on Steam if the PC version also suffers from the same graphical downgrade, something which remains to be seen) should reflect the reality of the product currently available
Finally, From Software could have to pay a fine, since what they did is blatantly illegal. Not saying that they will pay one, but it's still a possibility.
vpance
Member
No info until the initial sales slows down.
CountAntonius
Member
So here are the three possible reasons for the gutted lighting in the retail build.
1. Technical limitations of the current consoles.
2. Negative feedback about how dark the game was during the beta tests.
3. Intentionally gutted the game to sell what some say is an inevitable next gen version with all the bells and whistles.
I tend to lean towards one and maybe a bit of two.
1. Technical limitations of the current consoles.
2. Negative feedback about how dark the game was during the beta tests.
3. Intentionally gutted the game to sell what some say is an inevitable next gen version with all the bells and whistles.
I tend to lean towards one and maybe a bit of two.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Nobody is trying to make the game look bad. It does a fine enough job of that on its own.
Also, everyone knows the shadows become dynamic when you take the torch out - it's just that 1. this destroys the framerate, on PS3 at least and 2. there's no real need to ever do it because you can see everything without the torch.
NICE posting format, I REALLY hope you KEEP that UP.
Metalingus5150
Member
Nice response. You must be fun at parties.
This
If FROM / Bamco had said anything I would have been OK, but instead they chose to not say a word, that's dishonest and deceiving.
zephervack
Member
These shots are off screen which is known to increase contrast, go look at gt5 gifs made from off screen footage.
Game has gutted lightning with the torch off and on.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
With torches. Still TGS lighting looks way better and natural.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
And yet people are using offscreen footage from the previous builds for these comparisons (TGS build gif, for example).
Trust me, the game does look pretty good when the enviroments are lit by torches. It does increase the brightness contrast or something as dark areas outside the light radius definitely become darker. However, it's also true that when not lit by torches, these particular environemts are rather bright and you can navigate them without torches. The game definitely switches some ambient lighting numbers there (we've seen that happening in previous Souls games as well when you traverse into different zones and the "mood" suddenly changes; when entering Blighttown, for example).
1. Likely the case as some light sources of the same type do cast dynamic shadows while others do not.
2. Very likely, in my opinion. Brightening the ambient lighting is a design decision and will probably be the same in the PC version.
3. Bullshit.
Off-screen pictures. This is what it really looks like:
Did they dial down the particle effects as well? I knew that would happen after playing the beta.
No one has said anything.
The only person to comment on this was Jim Sterling on a podcast he was on.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Off-screen pictures. This is what it really looks like:
With torches. Still TGS lighting looks way better and natural.
Again, you guys do know that the TGS demo is offscreen footage as well, right? At least apply your standards to footage from all builds.
Yeah, I already said it in my original post: the ambient lighting is definitely brighter in the retail version. What I wanted to demonstrate is that there were no fundamental changes to the lighting engine and that the dull non-lit environments become pretty good-looking when lit.
edit: I would've much preferred the darker version as well, btw.
^^^lulz
Almost leaning towards 2 more than 1. Other games on those systems are capable of good lighting, but I could see feedback from focus tests saying the contrast hurts their eyes, makes things difficult to see, etc. The double-edged sword of listening to too much feedback instead of going with your original vision. Now I'm reading too far into it, but we've seen it before time and time again.
Self_Destructive
Member
In my heart, I want FROM to have been so ashamed of their PC version of Dark Souls that they have developed the PC version to really take advantage of the hardware and have been showing the PC version all along in the previews. I'm not holding my breath though lol.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
XANDER CAGE
Member
Well, here's April 2013, and January 2014 (although the description does mention "last year;" not sure if they mean the demo is the same or if they just mean the content is similar), and some videos of the beta.
It's hard to compare since the beta takes place in previously unseen areas compared to the E3/TGS demos, but it looks to be somewhere in between what we got and the demos. The lighting is definitely not as vibrant as the original demos, but we don't know if that's due to a downgrade or because the outdoor areas were always a little flat. The game is definitely darker though, there's more pitch black than that same area in the retail build.
Off-screen pictures. This is what it really looks like:
I'm ok with that, I just need dark areas to be dark now.
Can you fix this, Durante?
Shame, I was expecting one or two to maybe speak out in defence of FROM, I'd hazard a guess that they don't want to be negative against the game.
Hopefully someone will make a True Darkness mod even if the PC version has a raised ambient lighting. Although I can see those areas becoming popular with gankers running the vanilla version.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Repost:
I'm gonna be honest, I put DS2 in just now and the first thing I thought when control was passed to me was literally: "EW".
This doesn't even look as good as DS1 at the minute...
I'm gonna be honest, I put DS2 in just now and the first thing I thought when control was passed to me was literally: "EW".
This doesn't even look as good as DS1 at the minute...
I think they shouldn't bother talking about it. People watch their videos for gameplay/lore/guide videos etc. they don't have to explain or defend anything really.
jim2point0
Banned
Seems dialed down a LOT. WAAAA video removed.... U_U
Unknown Soldier
Member
It truly would be the Dark Souls of Dark Souls.
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
Where did all the atmosphere go?Except all the lightmapped shadows in that level are gone.
SilverBullet
Member
This thread is just going in circles now...
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Yeah, the same.
Love the absence of AO in the retail version. Makes the game way more playable...
That video is gone? but I know what you're talking about. It was honestly the thing that impressed me the most, in terms of the visuals, when I played the old build.
lazer_bean
Member
I find it odd that during the beta some of the feedback was that the game was too dark and someone at From said they would not make it any brighter. It's like both From and the players changed their mind about that since.
Still, a lot of players seemed to actually find it too dark. I don't remember reading about the torch besides a comment where the player said he thought it was ok a temporary mechanic for that area but hoped it wouldn't be overused in the game. Many people here seem to miss it as a permanent item though.
Even about Des or DS I often read that the games were too dark (I agree with that), even with the brightness all the way up.
One thing about false advertising: I pretty much agree with it after seeign the trailers but every time From released screenshots people wouldn't believe how bad they were. From probably did issue pictures of the game as it is but we didn't believe them because they were too ugly and we expected something else (which we were promised)
Still, a lot of players seemed to actually find it too dark. I don't remember reading about the torch besides a comment where the player said he thought it was ok a temporary mechanic for that area but hoped it wouldn't be overused in the game. Many people here seem to miss it as a permanent item though.
Even about Des or DS I often read that the games were too dark (I agree with that), even with the brightness all the way up.
One thing about false advertising: I pretty much agree with it after seeign the trailers but every time From released screenshots people wouldn't believe how bad they were. From probably did issue pictures of the game as it is but we didn't believe them because they were too ugly and we expected something else (which we were promised)
zephervack
Member
Can someone make a gif of this exact same area but with the torch out
Cant find any TGS Direct feed footage of that area with the torch light off
Im dying to make you a GIFs but I cant find it, in the all access video, they have the torch on all the time.Regardless, here is a comparison of TGS Demo, Direct feed of the hall before the boss, you can see how they murdered the light in the Retail version
Left is TGS Demo - Right is Retail
Yeah, the same.
Love the absence of AO in the retail version. Makes the game way more playable...
AO would only make the game run even worse. I don't think they'd remove that from the PC version. At least I hope they won't (should be easy to fix though. Maybe not as good as Durante's version for the first game, but better than nothing)
CountAntonius
Member
lol now?
CountAntonius
Member
What Dark Souls 2 need is Hats, flaming hats and flaming hair.
That would open up your hands...
I've always said I'd kill for a Dota type game with dark souls combat.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
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