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[smokeandmirrors]

My point is yes, there is work for every single young person out there if they are willing to try hard enough.

Citation needed. Unemployment rates for pretty much every western disproves that notion.

 

[Dead Man]

Where did I mention poor people? I work 70 hour weeks for not a lot of money, I'm hardly rich. My point is yes, there is work for every single young person out there if they are willing to try hard enough.

No western country has enough jobs for it's whole population to work.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

In Belgium there is currently 1 solicited job opening for every 17 people looking for a job at any given time and that's not taking into account job ads posted twice or more. It's also not surprising people actually want a decent job and many have studied for one and can't find one after graduating as they're competing with a pool that consists of plenty of people with 5 years experience looking for junior functions because they lost their job in 08. There's a growing divide between nice jobs and shitty ones and automation is probably going to make this trend worse for a while, so blaming things solely on the individual is a convenient way of pretending these things aren't happening. The other extreme of taking no personal responsibility into account is also not a good way of looking at things, however.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

So people who leave school at 16 and can't find a job can't claim have any money for five years.

You could also find a job at 16, pay tax and national insurance for four years, lose your job, and still be unable to claim benefits that you've paid into until you're 21.

What could go wrong?

This would most likely be income based JSA not contribution based JSA. I assume those who paid Tax and NI would be eligible to have it "paid back" if they became unemployed in the 5 year period between leaving traditional education and being JSA eligible.

The whole move how ever only serves to appease those who see people on JSA as a drain.

From what I hear from friends the entire JSA process is becoming more and more ridiculous as time goes on. One friend for example has to work 9-5 5 days per week. training the computer illiterate at the Job Center or her £112 per fortnight JSA will stop.

 

[The Cowboy]

From what I hear from friends the entire JSA process is becoming more and more ridiculous as time goes on. One friend for example has to work 9-5 5 days per week. training the computer illiterate at the Job Center or her £112 per fortnight JSA will stop.

This is the "help to work" scheme (or at least 1 of them - there is a few), its just workfare renamed in which your made to work and you get paid around a 3rd (depending on your age) of the minimum wage - basically you work a full time job for your benefits..

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Where did I mention poor people? I work 70 hour weeks for not a lot of money, I'm hardly rich. My point is yes, there is work for every single young person out there if they are willing to try hard enough.

Entirely untrue.

The entire north east of England is in a dire state with anywhere between 30-50% of a locations population being unable to find work.

National Unemployment stands at 2.02 million. (A 5 year low) 2.02 million more jobs simple don't exist especially in more northern areas of the country.

The population simple outweighs the jobs.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

This is the "help to work" scheme (or at least 1 of them - there is a few), its just workfare renamed in which your made to work and you get paid around a 3rd (depending on your age) of the minimum wage - basically you work a full time job for your benefits..

Which in turn has the added effect of eliminating real jobs, because why would you pay someone a normal wage for work you can force upon the long-term unemployed.

 

[Dead Man]

Which in turn has the added effect of eliminating real jobs, because why would you pay someone a normal wage for work you can force upon the long-term unemployed.

We have a work for the dole scheme here that does the same thing, but is getting expanded. :/

 

[Deleted member 13876]

We have a work for the dole scheme here that does the same thing, but is getting expanded. :/

There's a fairly tragic case in the Netherlands where a parks department worker got fired due to budgetary cutbacks, was unemployed for a while and then had to do his old job as part of community service in return for benefits program. Same work, none of the previous pay.

 

[Dead Man]

There's a fairly tragic case in the Netherlands where a parks department worker got fired due to budgetary cutbacks, was unemployed for a while and then had to do his old job as part of community service in return for benefits program. Same work, none of the previous pay.

Damn, that is fucked up.

 

[The Cowboy]

Which in turn has the added effect of eliminating real jobs, because why would you pay someone a normal wage for work you can force upon the long-term unemployed.

Yep, back when it 1st started in London (for example) loads of staff at the tube stations lost there jobs, a few months later loads of people (200+) on the A4E workfare initiative got given "jobs" at the tube stations. In effect, the tube stations cut actual fully paid workers and replaced them with unpaid workfare workers.

Sadly, this is happening more and more as the scheme carries on.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

surplus labor (force) is a standard aspect of capitalism (Karl Marx noted this btw, so this isn't new at all). So there is always a need for maintaining order among the unlucky as well, and imprisoning the poor, like the US has been increasingly doing, doesn't work. Banning some arrangements to score point with idiots who don't read does not get you anything (the same poisonous thought pattern is running amok in Western Europe though ).

 

[RukusProvider]

What will Grimsby do? Most of them have 3 kids by that age

 

[Visualante2]

Cameron guarantees triple lock young people's throats

 

[funkypie]

Hilarious how it is automatically disgusting. As someone who has had to use benefits once I find these changes good. Far too many people take the piss. If you can't feed your family and pay the rent (which is paid for with housing benefit) you're clearly spending that 23k on shite.

And if you're having 6 to 8 kids and moaning that 23k isn't enough then you're also taking the piss. People have that many kids And still work.

you already have to be 25 to claim housing benefit anyway so he isn't stopping anyone in that department.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

you already have to be 25 to claim housing benefit anyway so he isn't stopping anyone in that department.

Not true

 

[Visualante2]

you already have to be 25 to claim housing benefit anyway so he isn't stopping anyone in that department.

Pretty sure that was discussed and Clegg said he'd veto it and it wasn't coalition policy. Can't expect someone who makes sweeping generalisations to have their facts right though.

 

[funkypie]

Not true

It says it on the housing benefit website. How do I know? Because I had to use it last year.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

It says it on the housing benefit website. How do I know? Because I had to use it last year.

You're going to have to point it out for me, as I can't see any mention of it on the eligibility page.

https://www.gov.uk/housing-benefit/eligibility

 

[funkypie]

You're going to have to point it out for me, as I can't see any mention of it on the eligibility page.

https://www.gov.uk/housing-benefit/eligibility

They must have changed it then. Last year if you were under 25 you weren't not eligible unless some special circumstances. Like I said I know because I had to use it, my mistake if they have changed it.

So all Cameron is doing is reinstating a previous policy.

 

[The Cowboy]

Hilarious how it is automatically disgusting. As someone who has had to use benefits once I find these changes good. Far too many people take the piss. If you can't feed your family and pay the rent (which is paid for with housing benefit) you're clearly spending that 23k on shite.

And if you're having 6 to 8 kids and moaning that 23k isn't enough then you're also taking the piss. People have that many kids And still work.

you already have to be 25 to claim housing benefit anyway so he isn't stopping anyone in that department.

Is the other way around - its only a small amount who "take the piss" (as you put it), the majority (the vast majority at that) don't get anywhere near 23k and get just the bare minimum.

I swear some people seem to think everyone on benefits automatically gets £20,000+ and blow the lot of beer and big screen TVs - its not like that at all and we are at record highs of people relying of food banks.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Gotta save money somewhere, there isn't enough to go around, sorry.

 

[funkypie]

Is the other way around - its only a small amount who "take the piss" (as you put it), the majority (the vast majority at that) don't get anywhere near 23k and get just the bare minimum.

I swear some people seem to think everyone on benefits automatically gets £20,000+ and blow the lot of beer and big screen TVs - its not like that at all and we are at record highs of people relying of food banks.

I don't automatically think that but if not that many people get the full amount then what's your problem with the gov capping it? Its quite obvious who gets the large amounts, the people who have x amount of kids. Anyone getting 23k or more which they currently can do is taking the piss.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

It says it on the housing benefit website. How do I know? Because I had to use it last year.

I used it aged 23-24 last year without any problems.

 

[Dead Man]

I don't automatically think that but if not that many people get the full amount then what's your problem with the gov capping it? Its quite obvious who gets the large amounts, the people who have x amount of kids. Anyone getting 23k or more which they currently can do is taking the piss.

So why restrict it by age? It makes no sense and will only hurt those that do need it.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

They must have changed it then. Last year if you were under 25 you weren't not eligible unless some special circumstances. Like I said I know because I had to use it, my mistake if they have changed it.

Somehow I doubt Cameron abolished it in the last year!

The only thing that's changed recently is that the age that you get a single-bedroomed place (as opposed to a bedsit) was raised from 25 to 35. You might be confusing it with that.

 

[funkypie]

So why restrict it by age? It makes no sense and will only hurt those that do need it.

I don't know. My post was directly only at the cap limit. I have no problem with the age bracket.

 

[The Cowboy]

I don't automatically think that but if not that many people get the full amount then what's your problem with the gov capping it? Its quite obvious who gets the large amounts, the people who have x amount of kids. Anyone getting 23k or more which they currently can do is taking the piss.

Ahh i get your original point now (at least i think i do), now that you've said this. The way i read it was that you are not only OK with the cap but OK with younger people not getting benefits at all (as per the 1st post) - sorry about this.

I do actually agree the cap is to high (as its actually higher than a lot of paid jobs), i don't agree with making it so young people can't claim JSA and other benefits (this is where my big issue is).

 

[Dead Man]

I don't know. My post was directly only at the cap limit. I have no problem with the age bracket.

Hilarious how it is automatically disgusting. As someone who has had to use benefits once I find these changes good. Far too many people take the piss. If you can't feed your family and pay the rent (which is paid for with housing benefit) you're clearly spending that 23k on shite.

Should probably be more specific then. I can see why someone would think the cap was too high, but restricting benefits by age is just ludicrous.

 

[Goron2000]

I don't automatically think that but if not that many people get the full amount then what's your problem with the gov capping it? Its quite obvious who gets the large amounts, the people who have x amount of kids. Anyone getting 23k or more which they currently can do is taking the piss.

Yeah man, fuck the disabled! Buncha money grabbing cunts.

 

[funkypie]

Yeah man, fuck the disabled! Buncha money grabbing cunts.

With disabilities I say a case by case basis is fair. Unless you think that fat guy who got 500k a year was fair just because he couldn't stop eating, He was disabled to.

 

[ninjapanda]

Australia's PM has probably given him some ideas. We are current planning to make unemployed people under 30 wait 6 months before getting any unemployment benefits.

I actually take some comfort in seeing that other countries are attempting to adopt similarly controversial measures. It'll be interesting to see how it is received in the UK although I suspect talking points will be similar. Discussion has definitely shifted focus in Australia.

There's a fairly tragic case in the Netherlands where a parks department worker got fired due to budgetary cutbacks, was unemployed for a while and then had to do his old job as part of community service in return for benefits program. Same work, none of the previous pay.

That's fantastically messed up.

 

[iceatcs]

They must have changed it then. Last year if you were under 25 you weren't not eligible unless some special circumstances. Like I said I know because I had to use it, my mistake if they have changed it.

So all Cameron is doing is reinstating a previous policy.

If you’re single and under 35, you can only get Housing Benefit for bed-sit accommodation or a single room in shared accommodation. (aka shared accommodation rate - 20% of HB)

If you have DLA middle or high rate, you can get one bedroom or more rate under 35.

https://www.gov.uk/housing-benefit/eligibility

 

[The Cowboy]

If you’re single and under 35, you can only get Housing Benefit for bed-sit accommodation or a single room in shared accommodation.

If you have DLA middle or high rate, you can get one bedroom or more rate under 35.

It should be made clear on this, this is only if you go private - you can still get full (or almost full if you get 2 rooms or more) housing benefit if your under 35 and single for houses/flats etc if you get social (council/housing association) housing.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

I actually take some comfort in seeing that other countries are attempting to adopt similarly controversial measures. It'll be interesting to see how it is received in the UK although I suspect talking points will be similar. Discussion has definitely shifted focus in Australia.



That's fantastically messed up.

Source, in case people think I'm pulling this out of my ass. It's in Dutch, but Google Translate should give the gist of it.

On second thought, fuck it. I'm translating it.

Unemployed street sweeper needs to sweep for benefits

The Hague citizen Harry (53) lost his job as a street sweeper 3 years ago. Now he's picked up the broom again in exchange for unemployment benefits. "I get paid 400 euros less a month than I did before," he sighs. "I feel exploited, like a slave."

He's dumbfound why he can't get a regular contract like before. "I'm doing the exact same job, providing work that's very necessary to be done in the city. That's why I want to be paid the same as before "

Lawmaker Henk Kool stresses this is not a compensation in exchange for benefits. "These are reintegration trajectories," states his spokesman. "It's a great thing unemployed people get into a work rhythm and gain work experience."

"I thought I'd go crazy when they told me that," responds Harry.
"Gain work experience?" Haven't I been doing this job for years?"

 

[iceatcs]

It should be made clear on this, this is only if you go private - you can still get full housing benefit under 35 for houses/flats etc if you get social (council/housing association) housing.

But there is eligible for social housing. Not anyone can get it. Even my deaf friend still waiting for it for 7 years.

I think it is more for a poor family with young children who need extra help. Single person going to be harder to get social housing.

Private rent with HB is far quicker.

 

[The Cowboy]

But there is eligible for social housing. Not anyone can get it. Even my deaf friend still waiting for it for 7 years.

I think it is more for a poor family with young children who need extra help.

Ohh yeah i understand that, waiting lists are blooming terrible in certain citys (i think Lincoln for example is 12+ years) - luckily in Manchester they have some houses on a 1st come 1st serve basis (this is how i got mine).

Australia's PM has probably given him some ideas. We are current planning to make unemployed people under 30 wait 6 months before getting any unemployment benefits.

Its like some sort of survival of the fittest setup, if you can manage to survive 6 months unemployed without benefits you earn the right to be able to buy some food.

 

[Goron2000]

It says it on the housing benefit website. How do I know? Because I had to use it last year.

Are you sure you're not talking about working tax benefits?

 

[travisbickle]

Cameron, Cameron, the social housing snatcher.

 

[FyreWulff]

Where did I mention poor people? I work 70 hour weeks for not a lot of money, I'm hardly rich. My point is yes, there is work for every single young person out there if they are willing to try hard enough.

Nope. There's not enough jobs to go around. 0% unemployment is impossible to have.

 

[travisbickle]

Where did I mention poor people? I work 70 hour weeks for not a lot of money, I'm hardly rich. My point is yes, there is work for every single young person out there if they are willing to try hard enough.

There's not enough jobs because you're working the hours of two people. People need to protest for a reasonable wage on a 35 hour week!!!

 

[zero shift]

What if you have a kid?

What if you yet have a degree and are going to school but can't work enough hours between your school shift?

Why lower the allowance? Why not just have stricter judgment on case management?

Where did I mention poor people? I work 70 hour weeks for not a lot of money, I'm hardly rich. My point is yes, there is work for every single young person out there if they are willing to try hard enough.

"I'm miserable because I work two full time jobs for shit pay! If I settled for a short straw so should everyone else!"

 

[DJKhaled]

I see he is taking ideas from Tony Abbott.... Seriously, these conservatives are ruining our western countries, Canada, Australia, UK and NZ (though, NZ to a lesser extent)

 

[dreamcastmaster]

Cameron, Cameron, the social housing snatcher.

They took my milk too!

 

[Henke]

Worth noting that while the school leaver age is 18 in England and Wales it's still 16 in Scotland.

Better Together.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Is there actual direct confirmation of this?

I'm always dubious when it comes to these things, especially in the run up to a general election.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Where did I mention poor people? I work 70 hour weeks for not a lot of money, I'm hardly rich. My point is yes, there is work for every single young person out there if they are willing to try hard enough.

Such claims. I assume you can back beyond just anecdotal evidence?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Is there actual direct confirmation of this?

I'm always dubious when it comes to these things, especially in the run up to a general election.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto...e?shareToken=3a8efe8cdc12e8d432faa7d1c894bc30

http://www.cityam.com/1411893656/conservative-party-conference-tories-unveil-plans-slash-welfare

Instead of JSA, 18-21 year olds will receive a "youth allowance". The level will remain the same as JSA, which is currently £57 a week.

"We are saying you will receive an allowance but if you can't find work after six months, you will have to work for the dole," Osborne told the Mail on Sunday. However, certain groups such as single parents will be exempt from the measures.

Idiots. My God...I don't even know what to say.

This is interesting though,

 

[Rubbish King]

This is fucking disgusting.

 

[mrklaw]

The whole system has been screwed for a while. I don't understand how a family can be bringing in 45k a year and still qualify for working families tax credit. Or how they can remove child benefit from a single earner bringing in >50k, but still give it to two earners bringing in 49k each.

They've just piled layer upon layer of red tape and now it is so tangled that it is impossible to unravel.