WaterAstro
Member
What is this garbage idea thinking that anyone can ship an unfinished game.
The console makers goes through insane testing to make sure that it is very much playable because when shit breaks, it looks bad for the console as well.
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Day one Patches that erase progress?
- Thread starter King of Custard
- Start date
What is this garbage idea thinking that anyone can ship an unfinished game.
The console makers goes through insane testing to make sure that it is very much playable because when shit breaks, it looks bad for the console as well.
travisbickle
Member
Pre-launch of the XB1, the Forza devs talked about their game literally not booting up until you downloaded the update. That's a lot different to the games we have had released with day one patches. We know one player who has "completed" NMS without the update.
If it's an online focused game or one that's dependant on community exploration and interaction like No Man's Sky is then no, I don't have a problem with it.
If it's an offline, single player game (like an RPG) then I would be upset.
I guess in the end the difference between the two situations is minimal, but I can understand Hello Games wanting everyone to experience the shared world together.
If it's an offline, single player game (like an RPG) then I would be upset.
I guess in the end the difference between the two situations is minimal, but I can understand Hello Games wanting everyone to experience the shared world together.
who cares if they finished it? I mean, seriously. What difference does it make in your life? It's a game. If the game they sent out to sell wasn't the actual game, they fucked up.
Conkerkid11
Member
It is a finished product that people can play and enjoy, when it releases.
It's not out yet.
Clockwork5
Member
Day one patches are built into the development timeline. Developers don't really care if a few people get it early, they are more concerned that the 99.9% of customers get the extra few weeks of polish.
If that means the patch scrubs game saves and resets progress, so be it.
The Dutch Slayer
Member
One of my main reasons I stopped playing beta's for games that have the same sections of gameplay in the beta as the main game.
I don't want to replay that stuff.
I don't want to replay that stuff.
spazimoose
Member
Online patch distribution has fundamentally changed how games are made. Now the game on the disc doesn't need to be absolutely immaculately bug free. You can print a game thats reasonably playable from beginning to end while ironing out any remaining bugs.
No one was supposed to be playing the game prerelease unpatched so why would a dev maintain compatibility with those saves which no one should have made anyways? Unfortunately it is expected nowadays that your console is online to at least download patches.
I have a product for people who can't get online patches, it's called the Game of the Year Edition.
No one was supposed to be playing the game prerelease unpatched so why would a dev maintain compatibility with those saves which no one should have made anyways? Unfortunately it is expected nowadays that your console is online to at least download patches.
I have a product for people who can't get online patches, it's called the Game of the Year Edition.
/s
ScientificPizza
Banned
I mean, it's called a day one patch for a reason. If you're playing it before hand either you are aware of what is going to happen when the game launches because you've been given an early copy or code, or you shouldn't be playing it. It's not really a controversial thing at all.
Yeah, who cares if the product you purchase isn't the actual product?
Melchiah
Member
It is, when you buy it on the actual release date.
travisbickle
Member
The product you purchase is definitely the product you purchase.
stan423321
Member
As long as your machine is offline, this is the product you will play on the actual release date.
People need to finally realize that a game is not a product. If you are buying a physical copy, the product is the disc. And the manufacturer only needs to make sure that the disc works.
Games, just as all other entertainment is basically a type of service. You do not buy the game itself, you merely purchase the right to use the software for a (un)limited period of time, and patches, updates and other fixes are all a part of that service, and are offered for free to all customers.
Pokemaniac
Member
You vastly overestimate what console certification looks for. The bar for passing that is pretty low, and has little to do with a game being finished.
friskykillface
Banned
For online X ranking it's a great thing and I love when everything gets reset
For a single player only game , I don't really care tbh
For those that have no mans sky and are playing it I don't really care, doesn't bother me or will effect me when I play
For a single player only game , I don't really care tbh
For those that have no mans sky and are playing it I don't really care, doesn't bother me or will effect me when I play
Melchiah
Member
Unless it's an online title.
Stores do get penalties, the problem comes down to finding out who broke the release date. As for giving players penalties simply because they were lucky with getting a game early, that's not just a tad ridiculous, but majorly ridiculous. Gone beyond the realm of simply "well if I can't have it early neither should they" to outright spiting them. Ugly ugly ugly.
And stay out of spoiler threads I guess. GAF is pretty good about spoilers if you use your noggin. I know nothing about NMS simply because I've never stepped foot in a NMS thread. If you're visiting places like 4chan however, I have very little pity for you, you should know they give no qualms about spoiling things.
Melchiah
Member
The earlier others get something in their hands, the harder it's to avoid spoilers. Not to mention, that those who start on the release date have to stay away from Gaf's screenshot threads until that time in order to avoid spoilers. Why should the majority of players suffer because of the minority who got a headstart?
It's also annoying to see spoiler threads constantly on the front page. If OTs can only be created close to the release, why the same rule doesn't apply to spoiler threads?
I don't visit places like 4chan. I have no idea where that assumption came from.
King of Custard
Member
Games getting spoiled on the internet is nothing new and people who actively try and spoil games for people are arseholes.
This isn't really what the thread is about though it's about day one patches erasing progress.
Not disagreeing with you BTW just wanted to keep with the conversation.
I'm always against, there is time where i couldn't go online with my console for a very long time. No Man's Sky could have interested me, but if i know there is a day one patch which will wipe out everything, i would be stuck and i would probably have played the game quite a bit before knowing that.
It's not the kind of thing i find excusable.
It's not the kind of thing i find excusable.
striferser
Huge Nickleback Fan
My reaction to different scenario that i could think off:
Online game -> i'm fine with this.
Single player offline -> fuck that
Single player with online component tied to single player content -> Damn it, but at least i understand dev intention. Would be nice if Dev tell the consumer in advance
Single player with online content not tied to single player content -> Fuck that
Yeah, i guess that sum it up.
Online game -> i'm fine with this.
Single player offline -> fuck that
Single player with online component tied to single player content -> Damn it, but at least i understand dev intention. Would be nice if Dev tell the consumer in advance
Single player with online content not tied to single player content -> Fuck that
Yeah, i guess that sum it up.
SlickShoes
Member
It's only progress from pre release that's being wiped here though, your discoveries will be post release date so will populate the new universe when you go online and get the patch.
The only people this affects are people playing the game online and populating a pre release universe with data.
That's bullshit
First, Hello probably have a valid excuse, so I'll defend their decision here.
But for someone in the consumer end to say that it's "perfectly acceptable" is a completely different ballgame. We all know that a lot of people get early access to pretty much all videogames that are being shipped out of the factory (and digital stores, if that happens) it has been like that since beginning, it's an expected and big part of the scene. Giving out games early is the stores' responsibility, so It's not a consumer responsibility that the product is flawed, it should've been fixed before it went gold. So in this case it's understandable that people might whine a little about getting their progress erased.
Elite Dangerous did the same when it was released btw. A little bit different since people "only" had played a beta until then, but it was nevertheless painful.
Conkerkid11
Member
lol, in what way?
I really hate what gaming has become :/
Well if you have a problem with games having their progress wiped before release then maybe you shouldn't play them before release.
But for something that's only listed as a single-player game, there's probably hardly any MP interaction at all so unless there is a ranked system or something, it makes little sense.
But for something that's only listed as a single-player game, there's probably hardly any MP interaction at all so unless there is a ranked system or something, it makes little sense.
I'm all for it, but I really think the official release date should be printed either on the box or inside somewhere, because you will have people knowing nothing about video games and release dates walking into a store that breaks the street date, bringing that hot new game home, and who will lose days of progress not understanding why. I used to say the same thing when people were getting banned from XBL for playing Halo too soon.
I'm all for enforcing street dates, but the effort should be on sony/ms/whatev and the retailers, not on the consumer.
I'm all for enforcing street dates, but the effort should be on sony/ms/whatev and the retailers, not on the consumer.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
No Man's Sky went gold on the 7th July. The release date is the 9th August.
That's a month to get it to production, printed, distributed. It's not a massive amount of time for logisitics.
It also represents the game being in a fully playable form, from start to finish.
That extra month also allows Hello Games to, well, finish the game and do addition testing. Consoles are connected now and downloading a day 1 patch should be expected. That's sometimes a month, or more, of additional work that can be done on the game to ensure it's at the best standard possible. It's not a bad thing.
That's a month to get it to production, printed, distributed. It's not a massive amount of time for logisitics.
It also represents the game being in a fully playable form, from start to finish.
That extra month also allows Hello Games to, well, finish the game and do addition testing. Consoles are connected now and downloading a day 1 patch should be expected. That's sometimes a month, or more, of additional work that can be done on the game to ensure it's at the best standard possible. It's not a bad thing.
Fbh
Member
For online games or online centric games I actually think it's good. Everyone should start at the same point and you shouldn't have people with a massive level/gear advantage just because they got the game earlier.
For offline or single player focused games I don't really see the point other than trying to keep people from breaking the street date. And even then it seems like you are punishing the user who legally purchased a product he saw on display when the only one at fault is the retailer
To be fair, not everyone is up to date with the release dates of games.
There were a couple of stores where I used to live that regularly broke street dates (generally only by 2-3 days, but still). The thing is, they would just put the game on display and start selling it. Random people would see that, think "oh cool that game is out" and buy it.
Feels kinda dumb to punish those people, it's not really their duty to be up to date with the official release date of everything they buy. The responsibility to uphold the release date falls on the seller, not the buyer
For offline or single player focused games I don't really see the point other than trying to keep people from breaking the street date. And even then it seems like you are punishing the user who legally purchased a product he saw on display when the only one at fault is the retailer
To be fair, not everyone is up to date with the release dates of games.
There were a couple of stores where I used to live that regularly broke street dates (generally only by 2-3 days, but still). The thing is, they would just put the game on display and start selling it. Random people would see that, think "oh cool that game is out" and buy it.
Feels kinda dumb to punish those people, it's not really their duty to be up to date with the official release date of everything they buy. The responsibility to uphold the release date falls on the seller, not the buyer
I dont think a person without internet will be able to play the game at release if they dont have internet. The moment the client tries to connect to the server and sees their is a mismatch it'll give out an error.
You reference the majority but it seems like you just care about the annoyances it causes you personally. People should be banned and stores should be fined because you are annoyed at other people discussing spoilers. Which is pretty absurd.
The "majority" are not suffering because a Spoiler thread is on the forum.
So complex that many games are rarely finished at release.
This is a moot argument...of you're playing a game before release date, especially now in the days of day 1 patches, then you're playing a game that is not intended to be played yet. This holds especially true for a game designed like BMS where everything relies so heavily on algorithms that work to generate the universe...
You're in the process of moving into a new house, or moving into your dorm at college, and don't have time to get your internet up and running...BUT, somehow had time to put hundreds of hours into a game???...hmmmmm...
Idk when the last time you moved was, but you generally have things like phone service, internet, electric, gas, taken care of before you move so that everything is up and running either before you move in, or very soon after...
Also, what college have you ever been to where you would be waiting hundreds of hours before having access to the school's network?
No it's not..you shouldn't be playing the game before the release date...
In this case though the way the entire universe is being created is being altered...so all the things you have "discovered" in the "old" galaxy no longer actually exist...it makes sense that it would break old game saves...
Now if 6 months, a year from now they change their algorithms again, and it breaks saves...THATS a problem...
You're in the process of moving into a new house, or moving into your dorm at college, and don't have time to get your internet up and running...BUT, somehow had time to put hundreds of hours into a game???...hmmmmm...
Idk when the last time you moved was, but you generally have things like phone service, internet, electric, gas, taken care of before you move so that everything is up and running either before you move in, or very soon after...
Also, what college have you ever been to where you would be waiting hundreds of hours before having access to the school's network?
No it's not..you shouldn't be playing the game before the release date...
In this case though the way the entire universe is being created is being altered...so all the things you have "discovered" in the "old" galaxy no longer actually exist...it makes sense that it would break old game saves...
Now if 6 months, a year from now they change their algorithms again, and it breaks saves...THATS a problem...
Melchiah
Member
And from another point of view, the minority of firstcomers won't be suffering, if they can't partake in the common screenshot thread before the release date. After all, I'd wager the majority of people on the thread didn't have Uncharted 4 before its official release. Just like the majority didn't get to play DS3 beforehand due to Microsoft's loop hole. Many over here did voice their complaints about its negative effects for the community, when the game had been cleared, with playthrough videos published, before it's actually released.
Silent Chief
Member
I was playing Fallout New Vegas and my wife managed to crack the disc. So I buy a used copy to replace mine and I'm sent an American copy just to discover that it's not compatible with the Canadian version. Shit happens.
I don't play games without the day 1 patch. That's asking for troubles. As a designer, I run into these issues almost every day. Product groups like to release new apps on top of existing platforms because it's stable, even when they need functionality from the latest platform. They ask me to patch the functionality back and I tell them no and then it's up to management to make me do it and break the existing customers. Loads of fun.
I don't play games without the day 1 patch. That's asking for troubles. As a designer, I run into these issues almost every day. Product groups like to release new apps on top of existing platforms because it's stable, even when they need functionality from the latest platform. They ask me to patch the functionality back and I tell them no and then it's up to management to make me do it and break the existing customers. Loads of fun.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
those are inconveniences at best.
Melchiah
Member
Wouldn't it also be an inconvenience at best to have a day one patch erase the progress? Like people like to say, you can't have your cake and eat it.
No. The devs didn't intend the game to be played before release. It's more an inconvenience to see your game spread across the Web before you're done with it.
Melchiah
Member
I'm not disagreeing with any of that.
Is that thread really that important? It's just one thread out of the many on GAF. I mean unless you plan to beat every game day one, you will always risk spoilers if you venture in there. And, I'm not really on the staff team so I can't really say why certain rules are in place, but people do need a place to freely discuss everything about a game prior to launch without fear of accidentally spoiling it for people who don't want to read it. Would you rather they post them outside such threads?
And I apologise, should have used the pronoun 'one' to make it clearer I was referring to people in general visiting places like 4chan that are known for being liberal about spoilers and complaining rather than you specifically.
test_account
XP-39C²
Pretty much every game that is shipping on physical media is complete. Games before also had bugs in them and could have been improved as well, so this is nothing new. Back in the days however, there wasnt any good way to distribute patch other than reprinting the games, especially for cartridge based games. Games before were also more simple.