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[Glass Rebel]

My personal experience with feminists has been exclusively negative. From friends and love interests talking about how they want more rights but not the duties that come with it, over that feminist blogger in the whole Penny Arcade Dickwolves fiasco to chicks writing stupid Facebook stati they haven't helped put a good light on the movement.

But I acknowledge that they don't represent the original ideology. Getting offended at the description in the source code just shows how thin-skinned you are. Being offended at the state of the industry that this story implies is completely understandable though.

 

[SteveWinwood]

This is the worst thread I've ever seen on gaf. Some of this is honestly gamefaqs level shit.

EDIT: To be positive I'll add some more love on Campster's posts.

 

[Amagon]

This is the worst thread I've ever seen on gaf. Some of this is honestly gamefaqs level shit.

Lol, I just skimmed through the pages here and you just read my mind.

 

[IrishNinja]

I think we´ve reached the point where feminists aren´t fighting for equality anymore, but only for pro-female development, even at the cost of males. That is all there is to it, really.

Feminism isn't about equal rights. It's revenge sexism.

ITT: GAF talks out of its ass, more than usual.

Campster: your posts were awesome, thank you.

No, I´m not saying that perfect gender equality has already been achieved, *but* if feminists were serious about their agenda, they´d do their best to avoid any reverse-sexism developments. See parents rights, abortion rights, divorce rights, etc.. There shouldn´t be feminists, ideally, but equalists.

ahahahaha wow

I would argue that it's more likely a lack of experience and a tad fear of girls than misogyny.

...probably a fair call, here.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

It probably makes sense given the demographic but it's fascinating to think that this thread is predominately about how people feel about feminism as opposed to the appropriateness of the label "feminist whore" for a female character.

 

[Glass Rebel]

It probably makes sense given the demographic but it's fascinating to think that this thread is predominately about how people feel about feminism as opposed to the appropriateness of the label "feminist whore" for a female character.

Considering this is as no-news as it gets, what exactly did you expect?

[ ] I feel offended
[x] I don't feel offended

?

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Considering this is as no-news as it gets, what exactly did you expect?

[ ] I feel offended
[x] I don't feel offended

?

Yes, because the entire issue boils down to whether or not you specifically were offended.

 

[SmokyDave]

Most of this topic consists of people proclaiming how disgusted they are at this topic. Nobody seems to want to call out individual posts, just express general outrage.

It probably makes sense given the demographic but it's fascinating to think that this thread is predominately about how people feel about feminism as opposed to the appropriateness of the label "feminist whore" for a female character.

Why would we discuss the appropriateness of the label 'feminist whore' for a female character? That's not the case here. It was the variable name for a perk, in the source code, not the final retail characters name.

I don't think the name was big, hard or clever, but I do think that some of this 'outrage' has to be manufactured. I'm yet to see a 'victim' of this apparently seething malice come forward. Has anybody really, honestly had their feelings hurt?

I'm sure that a variable called 'Chauvinist Prick' wouldn't have ruffled any feathers.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Yes, because the entire issue boils down to whether or not you specifically were offended.

Yup, that's exactly what I said. Whether I feel that this is important news or not (I think it's not) or the implications are problematic (I think they are) this is a discussion forum and people get to share their opinions and experiences on this matter. And luckily, neither you nor jim-jam bongs get to decide what direction this thread takes. As long as it's within the TOS, it's all fair game.

 

[Boss Doggie]

My personal experience with feminists has been exclusively negative. From friends and love interests talking about how they want more rights but not the duties that come with it, over that feminist blogger in the whole Penny Arcade Dickwolves fiasco to chicks writing stupid Facebook stati they haven't helped put a good light on the movement.

But I acknowledge that they don't represent the original ideology. Getting offended at the description in the source code just shows how thin-skinned you are. Being offended at the state of the industry that this story implies is completely understandable though.

That's because the stupidest ones are the noisiest ones. I mean, the one that stinks is the one that gets attention a lot, after all.

 

[IrishNinja]

. I'm yet to see a 'victim' of this apparently seething malice come forward. Has anybody really, honestly had their feelings hurt?

not that i'm inclined to quantify things for others, but for posterity: i agree with others earlier on that no, this isn't really a big deal at all, but the defense force that inevitably sprung up around it points to it being a very minute example of something a bit bigger within gaming. and yeah, those "feminist whore" is still more clever than some of the posts this topic's seen, yikes.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Considering this is as no-news as it gets, what exactly did you expect?

[ ] I feel offended
[x] I don't feel offended

?

See, the thing is though, there are issues raised by this beyond whether you are offended by it or not. It's certainly your place to come and post how you feel about things, I'm not trying to suggest otherwise. But there are a whole lot of broader issues at play here, like the overwhelmingly male representation among the core gaming community, and whether that community actively discourages greater participation in their hobby through acts of aggressive sexism. As an example.

It's pretty difficult to draw any major conclusions from the facts to be sure, I just think it's interesting that the focus was actively shifted from a place where we were talking about a possible act of sexism to a place where we were either for or against feminism. Which seems to me to be missing the point somewhat.

Why would we discuss the appropriateness of the label 'feminist whore' for a female character? That's not the case here.

Whoever wrote the code gave it as a label to that character.

 

[Glass Rebel]

That's because the stupidest ones are the noisiest ones. I mean, the one that stinks is the one that gets attention a lot, after all.

Oh, I know. That's why I don't talk to them anymore. I know better though than to extend my disdain to a whole ideology.

See, the thing is though, there are issues raised by this beyond whether you are offended by it or not. It's certainly your place to come and post how you feel about things, I'm not trying to suggest otherwise. But there are a whole lot of broader issues at play here, like the overwhelmingly male representation among the core gaming community, and whether that community actively discourages greater participation in their hobby through acts of aggressive sexism. As an example.

It's pretty difficult to draw any major conclusions from the facts to be sure, I just think it's interesting that the focus was actively shifted from a place where we were talking about a possible act of sexism to a place where we were either for or against feminism. Which seems to me to be missing the point somewhat.

Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily disagree with you but you can't blame anyone for not directly assuming that this was much more than a joke. This isn't like that one case where we had e-mails and chat-logs with sexist content from that game company (forgot their name, I think they were working on some Wii game starring a Wizard). And even there you had some stupid cunts blaming her. What I want to say is, as it stands, without any other context given, talking about how women are treated in the industry is a bigger leap that talking about feminism. In my opinion of course. If it's worth discussing or not is a different issue altogether though, especially on the gaming-side.

 

[SmokyDave]

not that i'm inclined to quantify things for others, but for posterity: i agree with others earlier on that no, this isn't really a big deal at all, but the defense force that inevitably sprung up around it points to it being a very minute example of something a bit bigger within gaming. and yeah, those "feminist whore" is still more clever than some of the posts this topic's seen, yikes.

Casual misogyny is rife amongst teenage boys, who make up the bulk of gamers. I think most grow out of it by their early 20's but some don't and go on to develop games (amongst other professions). That occasionally leads to incidents like this variable name. Although this is not an ideal situation it is slowly changing and one variable name isn't going to reverse that.

I'm still not quite clear on just what is so offensive. Should the terms 'feminist' and 'whore' be mutually exclusive? If a character in GTA called another character a 'feminist whore' would it stir up more outrage than the other insults and slurs thrown about those type of games?

Whoever wrote the code gave it as a label to that character.

As I understand it, the name referred to a perk for the character, not the character herself. It was changed to 'gender wars'.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

I'm still not quite clear on just what is so offensive. Should the terms 'feminist' and 'whore' be mutually exclusive? If a character in GTA called another character a 'feminist whore' would it stir up more outrage than the other insults and slurs thrown about those type of games?

Context is everything, so probably not.

 

[AgentOtaku]

*whoops*

 

[jim-jam bongs]

As I understand it, the name referred to a perk for the character, not the character herself. It was changed to 'gender wars'.

While it is the case that the player can choose not to take the perk it seems a bit disingenuous to deny that there is any significance to the fact that the coder thought it amusing to call a variable related to a perk which increases the damage done to male opponents "feminist whore".

I'm a programmer myself and if I call a variable BlinkeringCockSlot you had better believe there is a good reason for it. Anyway, I honestly don't have much of an opinion about this, but I think the direction taken by the thread was interesting is all.

 

[blitzcloud]

What an exciting debate! No, not really. I really dislike when a minor collective wants to make a fuss out of everything remotely connected to them to say: "hey, I exist".

Maybe there should be a collective to complain continously about games that display obese people as temperamental freaks that are no good. I mean, that's kinda common and I bet it must be pretty hurting to see, like in dead rising, that they treat you as a closet freak that carries a pervertly themed chainsaw and wants a wife desperately. A forever alone freak.

I see it as something that couldve been a placeholder or something that doesnt imply that feminist are whores, but were certain that it would be looked like that, and so they opted not to use it.

PS: There are (or maybe were) collectives of people who feel feminist that attack clueless males in their anatomy. I know it's not the norm though.

 

[SmokyDave]

While it is the case that the player can choose not to take the perk it seems a bit disingenuous to deny that there is any significance to the fact that the coder thought it amusing to call a variable related to a perk which increases the damage done to male opponents "feminist whore".

I'm a programmer myself and if I call a variable BlinkeringCockSlot you had better believe there is a good reason for it. Anyway, I honestly don't have much of an opinion about this, but I think the direction taken by the thread was interesting is all.

I'm not denying the significance of the perk name, it's that that makes all the difference. If the character was called feminist whore, that would be a different kettle of fish (although I don't understand why it would be taboo to portray a feminist whore in a videogame). As a name for a perk that causes more damage to men, it's an understandable joke if a little tasteless.

 

[Enco]

Some woman on twitter posted that anyone who buys te game knowing this makes them a misogynist.

This is another case of people over reacting over nothing.

 

[squidyj]

For people talking about reverse sexism and whatnot I think it's far more diversified than that, there are a lot of people out there who are truly feminists and who believe in destroying or reimagining the paradigms that society lives under as opposed to simply reversing their terms. Unfortunately the society at large has difficulty with this and I think latches on to the much simpler and more easily implemented concept of 'women good'. Of course there is most likely a fringe group of man-hating harpies with severe psychological and emotional issues who claim to be lesbians or feminists but in reality are not and are instead disturbed and pathetic individuals who would do well from some form of medical intervention. (can you say Valerie Solanas and the SCUM Manifesto?)

At the same time however a lot of early research into things like Intimate Partner Violence seem to reflect a very naive an biased understanding, relying on concepts such as the male need to assert dominance in the patriarchal society and leading to such limited models as the Duluth Wheel Model. This sort of knee-jerk feminist response trivializes and fails to explain the experiences of both male victims of IPV at the hands of heterosexual partners and at the same time people who suffer IPV in homosexual relationships (male and female both), or, perhaps most dangerously, the experiences of trans individuals. Furthermore it paints very tight boxes of behavior and motivation as well as biasing narratives of Intimate Partner Violence. It seems likely to me that there could in fact be more done in feminist and sociological scholarship in the area of criticism and critique.

I've also noticed that, much as with breast cancer research, there exists an entire network of financial organizations, charities, aid groups, etc etc that have a self-serving motivation to perpetuate specific narratives of society. The degree to which they actually engage in this behavior is unknown to me. It seems unlikely to me however that these groups would want to scale themselves back or disband themselves, regardless of the current state of women in society (this is not to say that these groups do not provide valuable services to women, or that they do not currently address problems within our society).

Finally I would argue that feminism is a broad term that covers many different subsets and is not simply, as some might have you believe, "The radical notion that women are people". That may be a key tenet but there's far more to it than that and there's nothing I've seen that suggests that you must agree with everything every feminist tells you because they are a feminist and therefore right (although do try to avoid the whole mansplaining thing).

 

[DanteFox]

It's a passive-aggressive dig at modern feminism; the type of people who proclaim themselves champions of equal rights, all the while regurgitating ad hominems against those who don't agree with them and discrediting the views of men, simply because they're men, so they can't know what it's like to have anyone say anything negative about them.

 

[i_am_ben]

I personally think its wildly inappropriate.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

It's a passive-aggressive dig at modern feminism; the type of people who proclaim themselves champions of equal rights, all the while regurgitating ad hominems against those who don't agree with them and discrediting the views of men, simply because they're men, so they can't know what it's like to have anyone say anything negative about them.

You clearly know shit-all about "modern feminism".

 

[Margalis]

I'm yet to see a 'victim' of this apparently seething malice come forward. Has anybody really, honestly had their feelings hurt?

Whether or not anyone had their feelings hurt is completely irrelevant.

The key issue here is what does it say about the individual, the organization and video game development as a whole that someone thought this was an appropriate thing to include? And it's not just one person, other people surely saw the name, used it in code, etc.

The fact that the company culture was such that this was named what it was and further that at no point did anybody say "uh...yeah we should probably change this" says something unless it's some sort of silly inside joke.

Code you write for your job is not a good place to express your social, political and sexual opinions. In a text file that the public can read it's a PR issue but more fundamentally it's an issue of professionalism, respect for your co-workers and just generally behaving like an adult.

If a character in GTA called another character a 'feminist whore' would it stir up more outrage than the other insults and slurs thrown about those type of games?

If it's in a script that's a completely different issue. That is coming out of the mouth of a character for creative reasons, not because some programmer decided to bring their personal issues into the workplace.

 

[Dennis]

It's a passive-aggressive dig at modern feminism; the type of people who proclaim themselves champions of equal rights, all the while regurgitating ad hominems against those who don't agree with them and discrediting the views of men, simply because they're men, so they can't know what it's like to have anyone say anything negative about them.

Yup, pretty much accurate. Nailed feminism. Nailed it to the wall.

 

[PinkCrayon]

i'll bet whoever wrote the code just went through a divorce or break up. these things happen. i'm glad they do because they're hilarious.

 

[Momo]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-09-techland-reflects-on-dead-island-blooper

Dead Island developer Techland has reflected, following an internal investigation, on the embarrassing "Feminist Whore" blooper.

"The person responsible for this unfortunate situation will face professional consequences for violating the professional standards and beliefs Techland stands for," the company declared.

The rest of statement is all humble pie, apologising for the "inexcusably overlooked" and incriminating line of old game code.

"It has come to our attention that one of Dead Island's leftover debug files contains a highly inappropriate internal script name of one of the character skills. This has been inexcusably overlooked and released with the game," the company stated.

"The line in question was something a programmer considered a private joke.

"The skill naturally has a completely different in-game name and the script reference was also changed. What is left is a part of an obscure debug function. This is merely an explanation but by no means an excuse.

"In the end that code was made a part of the product and signed with our company name," Techland added.

"We deeply regret that fact and we apologise to all our customers or anyone who might have been offended by that inappropriate expression."

The Feminist Whore line of code would never have been found had developer Techland not accidentally released a developer build of Dead Island on Steam.

When the news of the Feminist Whore code broke, Techland told Eurogamer it was "disturbed" by the surprise violation of "professional and ethical" standards.

Europeans will benefit from a hefty day-one Dead Island patch when Steam wakes up later today. This will fix the dodgy developer version and fix numerous bugs. It may also wipe existing character saves due to incompatible game versions.

Techland announced this morning that Dead Island wave-based arena DLC will arrive later this month.

 

[Glass Rebel]

SMH. After the Dead Island launch Techland should be the last talking about "professional standards".

 

[Spat_triate]

Sooo are they ever going to upload the retail version to steam? It seems like they are blaming all of their issues on the 'accidental' uploading of the Dev build.

 

[Momo]

Sooo are they ever going to upload the retail version to steam?.

Jesus, is this still the case?

 

[Timber]

i still don't understand. does the skill summon sasha grey or something?

 

[Qwomo]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-09-techland-reflects-on-dead-island-blooper

Sucks that external pressure forces them to penalize someone over something completely harmless.

 

[subversus]

i still don't understand. does the skill summon sasha grey or something?

damn, that would be awesome

 

[mclem]

Why would we discuss the appropriateness of the label 'feminist whore' for a female character? That's not the case here. It was the variable name for a perk, in the source code, not the final retail characters name.

I don't think the name was big, hard or clever, but I do think that some of this 'outrage' has to be manufactured. I'm yet to see a 'victim' of this apparently seething malice come forward. Has anybody really, honestly had their feelings hurt?

Actually, the bit that's bothering me is the claim that everyone in the office bar the person who wrote it found it offensive - there's absolutely no way that everyone in the office was *ignorant* of it, you stumble on random unusual terms and jokes in comments all the time. If it really was a WIP version of the skill name (I believe they've not mentioned that, have they?), then quite a few people would have discussed it directly.

 

[Bresson]

Meh, put a bunch of guys together in a locker room or drinking on a terrace watching girls and you'll hear a lot worse. It doesn't mean anything, its just a guy talk joke, the guy that did it probably didn't meant it.

Yes it shows that the hardcore gaming industry is a boys club ...o rly?

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Meh, put a bunch of guys together in a locker room or drinking on a terrace watching girls and you'll hear a lot worse. It doesn't mean anything, its just a guy talk joke, the guy that did it probably didn't meant it.

 

[cleveridea]

whose life is hurt by this?

arent people struggling enough just to find and keep jobs etc?

 

[djtiesto]

Says an anonymous commenter online who is most likely a middle class white male who has never experienced discrimination

Yes, because it is impossible for middle class white men to be discriminated against. Come on, now.

I've never even heard of this game, but what Houston3000 posted earlier sounds right on the money. A developer's build accidentally got leaked, with a stupid variable name in there... I'm sure, buried in the source code of many products, are things way more offensive to one's ears than "feminist whore"... programmers get bored and/or frustrated and like to name variables stupid things Doesn't make it right, but this seems like a whole outrage over nothing... every time someone makes an ignorant comment (like when Ueda made that comment of women not having the grip strength of men), are we gonna chastise them and debate endlessly?

 

[LocoMrPollock]

This thread went full retard.

 

[angelfly]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-09-techland-reflects-on-dead-island-blooper

That really sucks. I hope that this is just for PR and someone really isn't going to get into trouble for a variable name that used in a developer build of a game. It clearly wasn't used in the final version of the game. The is Hot Coffee all over again. Some portion of the game that isn't presented to the player is uncovered by people looking to mod the game and causes controversy.

 

[ScionOfTheRisingSun]

Yes, because it is impossible for middle class white men to be discriminated against. Come on, now.

I've never even heard of this game, but what Houston3000 posted earlier sounds right on the money. A developer's build accidentally got leaked, with a stupid variable name in there... I'm sure, buried in the source code of many products, are things way more offensive to one's ears than "feminist whore"... programmers get bored and/or frustrated and like to name variables stupid things Doesn't make it right, but this seems like a whole outrage over nothing... every time someone makes an ignorant comment (like when Ueda made that comment of women not having the grip strength of men), are we gonna chastise them and debate endlessly?

Oh, people and their first world problems. If I had any sway with the powers that be I would wish upon us all war, pestilence, famine and death in equal measure so that at least our grievances would have a modicum of substance.

 

[Haint]

I honestly feel sorry for anyone that is bothered or offended by meaningless trivialities such as this. They must live miserable lives. Truly pitiable human beings.

 

[Mooreberg]

So this guy really got boned by whoever released the developer build by accident.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I honestly feel sorry for anyone that is bothered or offended by meaningless trivialities such as this. They must live miserable lives. Truly pitiable human beings.

Thanks, your pity means a lot.

 

[theBishop]

Sucks that external pressure forces them to penalize someone over something completely harmless.

Harmless? Techland isn't interested in selling their products to women? Or hiring female employees?

If Techland don't take it seriously, and firing the coder with that check-in, it reflects horribly on them. It's not about people being "offended", although this language does strike me as hateful, it's about protecting your reputation as a company and your corporate culture.

 

[Sennorin]

ITT: GAF talks out of its ass, more than usual.

Really?

I´m for equal rights, not for advantages/disadvantages to either gender. But a lot of the more vocal feminists aren´t like that. If those radicals are such a minority, they´re really hurting the original movement.

Also, regarding what this topic was actually about, it *was* a simple, harmless joke. And I´d really hate Techland if they fire a person over that.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Oh, people and their first world problems. If I had any sway with the powers that be I would wish upon us all war, pestilence, famine and death in equal measure so that at least our grievances would have a modicum of substance.

You're super edgy dude. Mad cool.

I honestly feel sorry for anyone that is bothered or offended by meaningless trivialities such as this. They must live miserable lives. Truly pitiable human beings.

You too. Fuck the police! I wasn't offended, so nobody should talk about this!

This is an ugly, ugly thread, even more ugly than the Deus Ex racism thread that turned into several people trying to have a discussion over the heads of a peanut gallery of people trying to be fucking clever. Guess what: being personally offended isn't the issue at hand here. This thread has moved on from the initial topic to something much bigger and far more gruesome: namely, that there are a lot of people here who wear casual misogyny like some kind of badge of honor. The wink-wink, nudge-nudge jabs at "feminism" (as if many people here were even remotely qualified to talk on the subject), the constant bleating of how much one really doesn't care (and yet cares enough to let everyone know) about the problem.

The issue is not whether someone was offended. The issue is not whether or not someone would be offended if presented with some hypothetical parallel to this situation. The issue is casual, snarky sexism in the gaming community. Good thing this thread can serve as a way to preserve the feedback loop between stupid, ill-informed, vicious comments in the gaming industry and stupid, ill-informed, vicious comments amongst their consumers consumers.

 

[udivision]

I honestly feel sorry for anyone that is bothered or offended by meaningless trivialities such as this. They must live miserable lives. Truly pitiable human beings.

This is the most offensive line of code since G.O.B.'s program. Show some respect.

 

[theBishop]

So this guy really got boned by whoever released the developer build by accident.

This code has no business in the repo.