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Dealing with an existential crisis
- Thread starter Oblivion
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Oblivion said:
I think you're still somewhat under the hold of your former beliefs. Your questions rest on the assumption that life can only have meaning if this meaning comes from someone that isn't you.
The aforementioned assumption is the result of a very childish mentality (which isn't to say that you are childish; you've almost completely escaped from it, after all). It is exactly like that of a child whose only purpose in life is to please his parents and do what his parents want him to do. People usually grow up and 'find' their own purposes, unless they're deeply religious, in which case they continue to follow the wishes of a fictional father figure.
The question you should ask yourself is, "Why the hell would the meaning that I make for myself be in any way inferior to the meaning that somebody else made for me?" Since you are yourself, your own purposes are by definition more important to you than anyone else's purposes, including God's, if He exists. What do you really want out of life? That is your life's meaning.
These questions are either trivial to answer, or incoherent. A state of reality X which includes an individual A at a certain point in spacetime exists because an extremely long chain of cause and effect led to such a state. You might as well ask, "Why did this die I've just thrown come up 6?" It came up 6 because you threw it in a certain way and the molecules that make up the air and the surface the die fell on bounced off it in another way. The same kind of explanation applies to everything else. You are you and not someone else because if you were someone else you wouldn't be you asking yourself why you're you, now would you?
Another question you should be asking yourself is, even if there was loads of evidence that the universe was created by a magical super-intelligent being with some purpose in mind, would this really resolve the crisis you're experiencing? All it would mean is that the chain of cause and effect that led to your existence includes a mind somewhere in it. You would still have to figure out what meaning you want to give to your life. One possible course of action would be to run up to the magical being and ask Him why he created you. Assuming there is a reason for your existence in particular and that He gives a shit, He should tell you. Then what? You would still have to figure out if you care about what the magical being wants.
So, start by identifying the assumptions that your distress-inducing interrogations rest on, and notice that they are baseless remnants of your old beliefs. Then, ask yourself what these questions actually mean, what the possible answers to those questions might be, and how these answers might affect you. Once you've realized that, ultimately, all that really matters (to you) is what you want (which, if you're not a psychopath, will include a certain amount of consideration for what others want), all that's left is some introspection to know what your real desires are.
If that doesn't do the trick, chances are that your distress doesn't really have anything to do with the change in your beliefs about reality, and I would suggest you read this:
Existential Angst Factory
Napoleonthechimp
Member
You have no control over the progression of time and also didn't choose to exist so why bother worrying over something you absolutely cannot change?
If there really is absolutely no afterlife or shift in reality beyond death then you will literally be unable to comprehend oblivion or nonexistence so you will never know anything but what it is to be alive.
If there really is absolutely no afterlife or shift in reality beyond death then you will literally be unable to comprehend oblivion or nonexistence so you will never know anything but what it is to be alive.
I really dislike the trite "invent you own meaning" platitude. It's just not how it works in real life. Religions provide a fixed horizon, a reason for living; your very soul is on the line and every action you make has huge potential consequences. While this is an awful tyranny that I see as quite a pathetic way of deriving meaning from life, it's none the less meaningful. A meaningful life outside of religion is clearly possible, but the challenge largely ignored or glossed over with that platitutde is that of actively finding meaning in life in a Godless universe. The punch in the gut feeling the OP is talking about is when someone finds themself going from having a world-view where meaning is delivered right to your doorstep to one where you're not even sure there's anything meaningful out there to find. It just annoys me that something so personal is treated as something to be rationalised or analysed away.
I don't quite follow you, especially your example of religion, considering that it invented its own meaning for life. "Inventing your own meaning" isn't analyzing/rationalizing personal concerns away, it's merely stating the obvious. Everyone, religious or not will eventually introduce meaning and purpose into their lives at some point.
Mash said:
As I briefly mentioned in my post above, the "reason for living" that you think religions provide isn't even a reason at all (and wouldn't be a reason even if one of these religions were true). "Your very soul is on the line" is a belief about reality, just like, say, "There's an apple on this table". A reason for living is a desire, not a belief. The desire that motivates (some) religious believers is "avoiding being tortured for eternity". Becoming an atheist has no effect whatsoever on the desire: Ex-believers still don't want to be tortured for eternity, they just don't believe that this is likely to happen.
To use an analogy, the fact that there may or may not be an apple close by doesn't change my desire to eat an apple. If my deepest, most fundamental desire is to eat an apple, it would admittedly be great to discover that there's an apple "right on my doorstep", as you put it, but even if I discover that this isn't the case, it doesn't make my life meaningless; it merely makes it more challenging. If there's no apple on my doorstep, I'll go to the grocery store. If there are no apples in any grocery store in my city, I'll go to another city. If there are no apples in my country, or in the entire world, I'll become a genetic engineer or a nano-scientist and design a freaking apple.
Or, if I'm religious, I'll delude myself into believing that I will get all the apples I want after I die.
Mr. Melender
Banned
I used to think like you. That there was no meaning to life and whatnot, but something dawned on me...
I'm the product of 4 Billion years of struggle to survive. All those lifeforms, fish, mammals, struggling to survive to ultimately give birth to me... and for what? To watch myself waste it?
No, I've been apathetic about life too long, and seeing how this is the only one I get I'm gonna grab it and make the most of it.
Sure, it won't matter after I'm gone, but at least having fun makes the time go faster than being bored and depressed all the time. If you wanna talk about meanings, there's literally no meaning to being caught up, depressed and apathetic towards life. That's just wasting what 4.000.000.000 years of struggle has given you. Meaning shmeaning. Go enjoy life.
I'm the product of 4 Billion years of struggle to survive. All those lifeforms, fish, mammals, struggling to survive to ultimately give birth to me... and for what? To watch myself waste it?
No, I've been apathetic about life too long, and seeing how this is the only one I get I'm gonna grab it and make the most of it.
Sure, it won't matter after I'm gone, but at least having fun makes the time go faster than being bored and depressed all the time. If you wanna talk about meanings, there's literally no meaning to being caught up, depressed and apathetic towards life. That's just wasting what 4.000.000.000 years of struggle has given you. Meaning shmeaning. Go enjoy life.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Did you know that the Metazoan lifeform 'Hydra' is biologically immortal?
I'd hate to continue as myself for all eternity.
I'd hate to continue as myself for all eternity.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Mash said:
Sure it will. Folks with serious realization are the most moral folks you'll ever meet. Once you get over being egocentric, you can genuinely start acting in the best interests of others. Zen practitioners still take the mahayana vow.
One the one hand he's not a bad read, but there are a lot of teachers who said he didn't quite "get it". He also kind of mashes a lot of things together. But he's not the worst place to start.
Oblivion said:Okay, this is kind of complicated and probably also dumb, but here goes.
I was born into a religious family. I guess you could say I was fairly religious. I believed in the rules established by my religion, and was really convinced that it was the 'right' one. I did have certain questions, that I'm sure most religious people had at least one point in their lives (like "Why is our religion the right one?"), but the answer to those questions were pretty much always: STFU.
But I went about my business and just accepted it. Around the time I was 18 or 19, I came across a debate about religion on one of the very first forums I used to frequent. One of the posters was an atheist (you could probably guess which side he was arguing), and he made a bunch of excellent points about the contradictions, hypocrisies, inconsistencies and paradoxes about organized religion that I couldn't help but feel enlightened. About a week after following the debate, I was of the opinion that all organized religion is baloney, and that you don't need religion to be a moral person. Interestingly enough, I didn't have a crisis of faith at the time like you would expect to happen once finding out that nearly everything you believed in was a lie. In fact, I was quite happy with my new found belief system.
However, I didn't consider myself an atheist. I still believed in a "God", or some sort of higher power. One that was as powerful as the gods of the major religions, but not bound by the arbitrary rules created with most religions (such as pre-marital sex being a no-no). However, throughout the past several months I've come to find myself drifting more and more to the side of atheism. The problem with this is that it seems to take away any meaning life had to offer. I mean, is life really just an accident? It's one thing when your parents call you that, but for it to actually be true on a cosmic scale? The more I think about it, the more questions come up. Why are you who you are, where you are, at what point in time you are? I mean, babies that are born, just to die from tay sacch's (sp?) or something? The hundreds of thousands of people that die every year, why aren't you one of them?
Needless to say, it's gotten pretty depressing. I've been feeling a hell of a lot more paranoid about being killed. I feel a bit better than I did a little while back when all of this hit me at once, but I don't know if I'll ever be able to go back to that blissful sense of ignorance about such matters.
So now I need help to get my life back on track. If anyone has any advice, or books or whatever to help cope with this existential crisis I'd appreciate it. I'm 25 years old, I shouldn't be feeling this way, dammit!
Yeah, I also used to be like you. Very religuous.
And then, as I grew older, I started to analyze things. And honestly, the whole world as a grand scheme of god doesn't make any sense. But I still dig Jesus. Not because of the whole son of god business but because of his teachings. You can think about good and bad on the basis of ethics. You can use Kant's Categorical imperative to look at things.
At least intellectually this will be very fruitful and fill a part of the void. Alwa
Now, this may sound weird, but do you really miss a meaning or praying? Because over the years, this turned out to be the one thing I actually miss. Sometimes seriously. But praying to a god I don't believe in feels plainly wrong to me... it also doesn't work. The feeling doesn't come back. Makes me kinda sad because in prayer I felt really connected. Hard to describe but there was something special about it.
So currently I feel stuck between not being really Christian anymore but wanting to pray in some form. I'm currently practising Buddhist prayer for the good of all sentient being but it feels foreign to me. Then again, one thing I did for over 20 years and the other I only started. I hope I'll get that feeling back.
Yeah, okay, this wasn't as much an advice as it was sharing the story of myself in a "you're not alone, kid" way. Hope it helped in some way
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I've come to feel that nothing external can ever give someone peace with existence; no framework, culture, belief system, logic, religion, nada.
These things all suffice for people up to a certain point; some people may be "lucky" enough to die before they reach that point fully. But eventually one doubts and thinks "but what about <unexplained factor>?" Eventually the external framework runs out of premade answers.
So in a nutshell, you have to come up with your own internal rationalization of why it's awesome to keep living instead of horrible because you'll only truly believe in it, balls to bone, and forever, through all trials and challenges and "tests of faith", if it comes from yourself.
People who have achieved this are relatively rare, though there's nothing special about them. That's the cosmic joke of it all; anybody can do it, there's no entry fee.
(FYI, I don't see people who have gotten to this stage as inherently belonging to any particular belief system, including the belief in non-belief. As much as hardline atheists might not like to admit it, there are religious people for example, who have found extreme inner peace and are only a asset to the world - in every way. Granted, I've found such people do not follow any prepackaged, approved, stamped, signed edition of said religion; they've had to go much deeper than the average person goes and dispense with many human delusions and abuses of said belief system.)
The ironic answer to the question of "what is the point in living" boils down to "you". You're the point in living, so personally, I'd recommend you make a good point.
These things all suffice for people up to a certain point; some people may be "lucky" enough to die before they reach that point fully. But eventually one doubts and thinks "but what about <unexplained factor>?" Eventually the external framework runs out of premade answers.
So in a nutshell, you have to come up with your own internal rationalization of why it's awesome to keep living instead of horrible because you'll only truly believe in it, balls to bone, and forever, through all trials and challenges and "tests of faith", if it comes from yourself.
People who have achieved this are relatively rare, though there's nothing special about them. That's the cosmic joke of it all; anybody can do it, there's no entry fee.
(FYI, I don't see people who have gotten to this stage as inherently belonging to any particular belief system, including the belief in non-belief. As much as hardline atheists might not like to admit it, there are religious people for example, who have found extreme inner peace and are only a asset to the world - in every way. Granted, I've found such people do not follow any prepackaged, approved, stamped, signed edition of said religion; they've had to go much deeper than the average person goes and dispense with many human delusions and abuses of said belief system.)
The ironic answer to the question of "what is the point in living" boils down to "you". You're the point in living, so personally, I'd recommend you make a good point.
Monocle
Member
Would it really be so wonderful to have been created for a purpose? To find out I was designed by a divine overseer, my function and worth predetermined, would be by my most optimistic standard a crushing disappointment. It would invalidate my individuality and undermine my values to learn that everything I am arose from another mind, rather than the sum of my life experiences and personal choices in tandem or tension with my genetic imperatives. Isn't it far more grand to embrace the truth of our situation as we currently understand itthat we alone are responsible to create our own meaning? Is it such a poor thing to take rudder in hand and steer our own lives as best we can with the wisdom of great scholars, philosophers, scientists, and artists as our guide?
There are several problems with Mash's view that religion provides a reason for living. A big one is that the purpose of life, according to most religions, is to please god. Beyond the absurdity of devoting one's precious time to exalting a being that almost certainly doesn't exist, it's deeply dissatisfying on an intellectual level to resign oneself to the role of a lowly acolyte, one cog in a vast machine that generates eternal praise for its creator. And for what? Why, being given the opportunity to offer eternal praise, of course. It's an exquisitely grotesque piece of circular logic. Maybe it's just me, but existence would seem a lot less appealing if humans were the marionettes of an egocentric omnipotent supervisor who is privy to our innermost thoughts. We should all be grateful that there is not a shred of evidence to support this ghastly idea.
Living without the false consolation of religion may seem difficult, but it becomes less so when we acknowledge that faith isn't harmless fantasy so much as a deeply corrosive negative force that binds people hand and foot in the manacles of ignorance and false security and leaves them to drown in indifference and apathy. Why pay any mind to things we do not understand if we are swaddled in the righteous honeyed certainties of religion? Why concern ourselves with temporal affairs if we believe that this life is a brief interlude in an endless cosmic journey? We must cast off these childish notions as we cast off the naivety of youth.
Without the illusory safety net of immortality, one's impulse may be to withdraw from the world and live a sheltered life shielded from its dangers. But there is no refuge from mortality, no lasting safety, and the sooner we come to terms with the fact that all aspects of existence are to some degree out of our control, the sooner we can get on with living. And living is what we should do, boldly and with vigor. We should savor every golden moment of our existence. As Sanderson of Oundle said,
If you're tempted to think that disavowing religion somehow diminishes the wonder of life, consider this. The ingredients that form our bodies were forged in the hearts of stars. Through us, the cosmos stands up and knows itself. I can't speak for anyone else, but to me this an awe-inspiring, transcendent thought. My mind reels when I contemplate the profundity of nature. Religious myths and supernatural "explanations" are positively dull in comparison to reality as revealed by science. This might not allay my dread for death, but it does help me appreciate my life enough to resolve not to waste it. Richard Dawkins writes in Unweaving the Rainbow (a book I recommend to you):
Among many other things, I live for family, friendship, literature, art, and knowledge. I value these and the rest of life's gifts all the more highly for knowing they cannot last. Treasure your life. Instead of lamenting the end before it arrives, do what you can to bring joy to yourself and other people while you can. Leave a legacy you can be proud of.
There are several problems with Mash's view that religion provides a reason for living. A big one is that the purpose of life, according to most religions, is to please god. Beyond the absurdity of devoting one's precious time to exalting a being that almost certainly doesn't exist, it's deeply dissatisfying on an intellectual level to resign oneself to the role of a lowly acolyte, one cog in a vast machine that generates eternal praise for its creator. And for what? Why, being given the opportunity to offer eternal praise, of course. It's an exquisitely grotesque piece of circular logic. Maybe it's just me, but existence would seem a lot less appealing if humans were the marionettes of an egocentric omnipotent supervisor who is privy to our innermost thoughts. We should all be grateful that there is not a shred of evidence to support this ghastly idea.
Living without the false consolation of religion may seem difficult, but it becomes less so when we acknowledge that faith isn't harmless fantasy so much as a deeply corrosive negative force that binds people hand and foot in the manacles of ignorance and false security and leaves them to drown in indifference and apathy. Why pay any mind to things we do not understand if we are swaddled in the righteous honeyed certainties of religion? Why concern ourselves with temporal affairs if we believe that this life is a brief interlude in an endless cosmic journey? We must cast off these childish notions as we cast off the naivety of youth.
Without the illusory safety net of immortality, one's impulse may be to withdraw from the world and live a sheltered life shielded from its dangers. But there is no refuge from mortality, no lasting safety, and the sooner we come to terms with the fact that all aspects of existence are to some degree out of our control, the sooner we can get on with living. And living is what we should do, boldly and with vigor. We should savor every golden moment of our existence. As Sanderson of Oundle said,
If you're tempted to think that disavowing religion somehow diminishes the wonder of life, consider this. The ingredients that form our bodies were forged in the hearts of stars. Through us, the cosmos stands up and knows itself. I can't speak for anyone else, but to me this an awe-inspiring, transcendent thought. My mind reels when I contemplate the profundity of nature. Religious myths and supernatural "explanations" are positively dull in comparison to reality as revealed by science. This might not allay my dread for death, but it does help me appreciate my life enough to resolve not to waste it. Richard Dawkins writes in Unweaving the Rainbow (a book I recommend to you):
Among many other things, I live for family, friendship, literature, art, and knowledge. I value these and the rest of life's gifts all the more highly for knowing they cannot last. Treasure your life. Instead of lamenting the end before it arrives, do what you can to bring joy to yourself and other people while you can. Leave a legacy you can be proud of.
this website is interesting to read http://www.iawwai.com/index.htm because you don't hear this opinion often
Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we're the imagination of ourselves...
Co-signedDeathNote said:
I just take the manchild approach, and try to divert from any thoughts of what might come to be.
Obviously it doesn't work all the time, but as long as I do things that bring me enjoyment, and approach boredom and unhappiness with the view that if I persevere it will eventually bring me enjoyment, life doesn't sound so bad.
Obviously it doesn't work all the time, but as long as I do things that bring me enjoyment, and approach boredom and unhappiness with the view that if I persevere it will eventually bring me enjoyment, life doesn't sound so bad.
Carl Jung - Death is not the end
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-Ab3tlpvYA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-Ab3tlpvYA
My look on life may be sort of a selfish one, but it's not quite hedonistic. I try to make myself feel good, because it seems like there's not much to do besides that. Part of that self-service involves contributing to things, though: I donate to charity and am pretty well known for supplying favors to anybody who might need one. When it comes down to it, though, I do those things because it makes me feel good. I've tried rationalizing it as being selfless, but I can never completely justify it like that. Even when I go into something in a way that denies myself, I always end up feeling good about it in the end.
I also don't believe in a fairy tale god, but I think that there is a real, tangible creation in what world religions have come up with. In that way I think a "god" exists- in that there is a central source of motivation and happiness- that millions of people are attracted to. Even if you're an atheist, I don't think it's easy easy to deny that there is a real sense of belonging that "faithful" people have. Even if it conflicts in more diverse groups, it unites certain communities and gives them something to live for. That feeling, I believe, justifies the use of a centerpiece God. Note that I think we'd be better off if people were strong enough to not rely on god-stories, but I don't think the human race will ever have courage enough to stand on its own two feet.
When it comes down to it, I really don't think there's a point to anything. I figure you just do what makes you happy, maybe leave some traces of yourself on Earth, and wonder about the rest. It's really strange to think about, but eh, whatever.
Oh, and have a lot of sex.
I also don't believe in a fairy tale god, but I think that there is a real, tangible creation in what world religions have come up with. In that way I think a "god" exists- in that there is a central source of motivation and happiness- that millions of people are attracted to. Even if you're an atheist, I don't think it's easy easy to deny that there is a real sense of belonging that "faithful" people have. Even if it conflicts in more diverse groups, it unites certain communities and gives them something to live for. That feeling, I believe, justifies the use of a centerpiece God. Note that I think we'd be better off if people were strong enough to not rely on god-stories, but I don't think the human race will ever have courage enough to stand on its own two feet.
When it comes down to it, I really don't think there's a point to anything. I figure you just do what makes you happy, maybe leave some traces of yourself on Earth, and wonder about the rest. It's really strange to think about, but eh, whatever.
Oh, and have a lot of sex.
Some people read things whether they agree with it or not. As I said, this is an opinion that someone doesn't come across often and interesting to read. I believe in looking at things in multiple perspectives. So, just because you find it delusional doesn't mean the OP or someone else won't want to read it due to perhaps boredom or insomnia. Oh, and look, there's already someone who found it interesting to read.Furcas said:
CrocMother
Banned
Your existence is a statistical anomaly. That's why you should loosen up and enjoy it! The very fact that you exist at all is incredible! You have the privilege of feeling something.
Any emotion at all, whether it be depression or joy, consider it a gift generated from the seemingly random chaos of the universe.
Any emotion at all, whether it be depression or joy, consider it a gift generated from the seemingly random chaos of the universe.
So, as I said earlier about iawwai.com, people might find the website interesting for different reasons. in your case, you're wondering about souls.BowieZ said:
here's the author's perspective on it:
Not promoting it or saying I agree with it, just food for thought.
There's a whole glass-half-full-half-empty thing here.
You can either look at life has having nothing for billions of years and then BAM! 70 years of awesome nonsensical shit! What a gift!
Or you can look at it as though existence started at age 0 when you were born and gained consciousness and it's a downhill ride from there -- your right to life being taken away from you.
You can either look at life has having nothing for billions of years and then BAM! 70 years of awesome nonsensical shit! What a gift!
Or you can look at it as though existence started at age 0 when you were born and gained consciousness and it's a downhill ride from there -- your right to life being taken away from you.
Oh, I totally agree. That's pretty much my answer to it, but I wanted to hear what other forum members thought first.DeathNote said:
I never grew up with a religion nor believed in one. I also believe, as grateful as I am for my family, I lacked any semblance of parental guidance even if some of those values are now reflected in who I am now. Quite frankly, I never did answered my question of life's meaning, but what I did was find meaning(s) to life and ignored past concerns. I suppose my advice to you would be to find an answer you're satisfied with, whether simple or complex, and patiently observe. A saying I hold profoundly at heart is either to get busy living or get busy dying.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Some of you guys think way too much.
But that doesn't answer the question of why you are *you*. Yes, humans develop identities. But why did the identity RagnarokX developed come to be experienced by you -- or, why can't I experience your life? It's not about humans having identities, because if none of us were conscious of ourselves, every human would be another statistic. It's that we are conscious of our own identity, that makes our own life not just another statistic... objective nature has become subjective... somehow?RagnarokX said:
HOW?
How does that not answer the question of why I am "me." "I" developed because of the specific genes that came together to form me and the specific environment I developed in. Any minute changes to any factor would have resulted in a different person. You cannot experience my life because we are separate physical entities. How does being self aware make us not the sum of our genes and experiences?BowieZ said:
You're all speaking of it as though all humans are objective beings and one is the same as any other, all following the same phenomenon.Crunched said:
It's true if you only consider it in that way -- as though we were discussing this as a God looking down upon our creations -- but there *is* another phenomenon, and it's the subjectivity felt by each one of those humans, our own life is a different phenomenon to anybody else's life. NOBODY will ever experience my life, so it's a unique phenomenon.
I understand how I am experiencing my own life, but my question rather is why *I* am not experiencing anyone else's.
Oblivion said:However, throughout the past several months I've come to find myself drifting more and more to the side of atheism. The problem with this is that it seems to take away any meaning life had to offer. I mean, is life really just an accident? It's one thing when your parents call you that, but for it to actually be true on a cosmic scale? The more I think about it, the more questions come up. Why are you who you are, where you are, at what point in time you are? I mean, babies that are born, just to die from tay sacch's (sp?) or something? The hundreds of thousands of people that die every year, why aren't you one of them?
Needless to say, it's gotten pretty depressing. I've been feeling a hell of a lot more paranoid about being killed. I feel a bit better than I did a little while back when all of this hit me at once, but I don't know if I'll ever be able to go back to that blissful sense of ignorance about such matters.
So now I need help to get my life back on track. If anyone has any advice, or books or whatever to help cope with this existential crisis I'd appreciate it. I'm 25 years old, I shouldn't be feeling this way, dammit!
I can't offer any reading material, only my own perspective as an atheist on this issue.
My own view is that there is inherently no purpose or meaning to life. I truly believe that we are here purely by "accident", and that the universe at large has no higher purpose or destiny for us. I believe that when we die, we cease to exist in any form beyond that of decaying matter.
It could be very easy to go from this position into a depressed state. If life inherently lacks purpose or meaning, then what is the point? Why bother? Why try? Why care? Why not fear death if only oblivion is beyond it? These are reasonable questions to ask, and are indeed partly why mankind has warmed to the concept of religion which provides comfort and meaning in the face of a potentially harsh and cold reality.
However, taking the position that life has no inherent meaning can also be liberating, and counterintuitively can actually provide more personal meaning. If you only have one life to live and your existence is limited to this mortal life, then every moment within that lifespan is precious. A wide range of experience is available to you at any given time, and as you are lucky enough (I assume) to have your health and your youth, you have potentially many years of choice ahead of you. Fear of an untimely death should be outweighed by curiosity and our genetic desire to explore.
As well as experiencing the world, you also have the opportunity to contribute in a way which will transcend beyond your own mortal existence, whether that legacy be productive, creative, family, charitable, etc or some combination. Your ideas and your memory can live on beyond your death, creating an immortality of sorts, and can extend beyond your immediate reach to impact people you never have and never will meet. Knowing this can make contribution immensely satisfying and rewarding.
Experience and contribution can drive meaning and purpose and vice versa. Your meaning right now and your legacy in the future is only limited by your imagination and energy. Carpe diem.
In summary, create your own meaning in life and pursue that with passion and vigour.
Hope that helps.
drakesfortune
Directions: Pull String For Uninformed Rant
I don't have answers for you, but I went through a similar crisis of faith. I can only tell you the conclusion I came to.
I read Leviticus, which is a ginormous head fuck for ANY religious person. It pretty much lets you know that what's included in all religious texts is a collection of texts, documents, and ideas put together by mere mortals like us.
The bible is not a science, it's merely suggested reading for Christians. It was put into a big book by mortals. Some people see it as 100% truth. It's not though. It's merely their best guess.
So after a couple years of struggle with that, I though about life, the universe, religion, morality, and came to my own conclusions. I realized that faith is extremely important to being a well rounded individual. Spiritual belonging is important. But I also realized that the people who put the bible together, and mad the religious constraints we abide by were MORTALS. That's a hard thing to accept. But after much trouble, I accepted it. God has always been with me. I know that. That's hard for most people to understand. He's been with me though. I believe in him firmly. I also believe that all religions have twisted the meaning of God not based on Him, but based on their own biases, political beliefs etc.
So my only advice is to find your own way. Arm yourself with knowledge, prayer, and don't give up hope. I gave up hope for a couple years there, and it was the darkest time of my life. I can't explain the universe. I can't explain why an atom is even here. There shouldn't' be anything. Not a single atom. Yet, here we are. God is probably kinder that we give him credit. He's probably, happier than we give him credit. But who knows. You have to follow your heart to your own conclusions on the matter. I'm certain that's what God wants. He doesn't want you to believe because that's your culture, or that's what you were told, he want you to believe because it's logical, and it's what makes sense to you.
Corny? Yeah. Absolutely. But it gives me peace, and I believe it firmly. The day we think we are our own God's is the day society collapses under it's own egotistical, infallable, and narcissistic people.
I read Leviticus, which is a ginormous head fuck for ANY religious person. It pretty much lets you know that what's included in all religious texts is a collection of texts, documents, and ideas put together by mere mortals like us.
The bible is not a science, it's merely suggested reading for Christians. It was put into a big book by mortals. Some people see it as 100% truth. It's not though. It's merely their best guess.
So after a couple years of struggle with that, I though about life, the universe, religion, morality, and came to my own conclusions. I realized that faith is extremely important to being a well rounded individual. Spiritual belonging is important. But I also realized that the people who put the bible together, and mad the religious constraints we abide by were MORTALS. That's a hard thing to accept. But after much trouble, I accepted it. God has always been with me. I know that. That's hard for most people to understand. He's been with me though. I believe in him firmly. I also believe that all religions have twisted the meaning of God not based on Him, but based on their own biases, political beliefs etc.
So my only advice is to find your own way. Arm yourself with knowledge, prayer, and don't give up hope. I gave up hope for a couple years there, and it was the darkest time of my life. I can't explain the universe. I can't explain why an atom is even here. There shouldn't' be anything. Not a single atom. Yet, here we are. God is probably kinder that we give him credit. He's probably, happier than we give him credit. But who knows. You have to follow your heart to your own conclusions on the matter. I'm certain that's what God wants. He doesn't want you to believe because that's your culture, or that's what you were told, he want you to believe because it's logical, and it's what makes sense to you.
Corny? Yeah. Absolutely. But it gives me peace, and I believe it firmly. The day we think we are our own God's is the day society collapses under it's own egotistical, infallable, and narcissistic people.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
keep thinking that. it's scary how many people in the world need the dangled carrot of a god to make sense of anything. you think I don't feel exactly the sama way about the moral choices in my life because I don't believe in religion?
Either you're overthinking this or it's totally going over my head. The last sentence here sort of contradicts itself; you say you know how you're experiencing your own life, but not why you aren't experiencing someone else's. But those are the same thing. Your life is an individual thing, separate from all other lives. Considering yourself as a possibility, you could have potentially been anyone else, but you weren't. You aren't some amorphous blob of possibility, you're a human being.BowieZ said:
DeathNote said:
Please. It's one part generic woo, two parts meaningless mysticism, and four parts impenetrable obscurantism.
BowieZ said:
The answer is pretty simple. The identity RagnarokX didn't "come to be experienced" by RagnarokX, it is RagnarokX. There is no reason to believe otherwise. Asking why you can't experience his life is asking why you're not him. You're not him because you and him are different identities. There is no *you* apart from you.
Consciousness is probably the most mysterious and confusing topic there is, which is why people tend to believe that there must be something fundamentally different about it, or that it must be something beyond or separate from the physical (whatever that means), which is what you're alluding to when you talk about *I* and *you*, but there is no more reason to believe this about consciousness than to believe it about chairs. That consciousness is mysterious and confusing only means that we know and understand very little about it. Mysteriousness is not a property of consciousness, it's a property of our minds when they think about consciousness. Therefore, to conclude that consciousness is fundamentally different from everything we've observed in the universe because it's so mysterious means to believe a very unlikely claim because you're ignorant. It makes no sense.
The exact opposite is true: We are all different from one another, because we all have different brains processing different information in different ways.
That's right. Nobody will experience what it's like to be you because no brain is your brain except your brain. Well, unless a Star Trek teleporter creates an exact copy of you.
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