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[Sibylus]

But that doesn't answer the question of why you are *you*. Yes, humans develop identities. But why did the identity RagnarokX developed come to be experienced by you -- or, why can't I experience your life? It's not about humans having identities, because if none of us were conscious of ourselves, every human would be another statistic. It's that we are conscious of our own identity, that makes our own life not just another statistic... objective nature has become subjective... somehow?

HOW?

Consider two boxes, each filled with wires.

For the most part, Box A is highly similar to Box B. Both boxes have wires dedicated to the detection and recording of stimuli. Each box also has special clumps of wires than enable it to be aware of these stimuli and the recordings. They sort the recordings and act selectively in the face of different stimuli. Due to the interactions between the constraints of the "blueprints", varying "recordings", the nests of "wires" being slightly different, Box A and Box B are different. Different also is their "point of view", their detection wires may function the same, but they are local, they can only operate for the box in which they sit. Box A's wires cannot receive Box B's stimulus. The recordings they make are local too, and will likely be much different from recordings in the other box.

Box A perceives itself to be Box A because its wires enable it to do so, and the quirks of the wires help create a synergy not quite the same as the synergies of the other boxes. If one could enable Box A and Box B to utilize each other's wires and recordings at the same time as they use their own, perhaps both boxes would still perceive themselves to be separate boxes, but simultaneously that union of wires and recordings of two boxes might create a Box C, a box that perceived itself as whole with two significant organs separated by time and space.

TLDR; Your "wires" were made for you, and they lack the capability of accessing the wires of other "boxes". You have literally no choice in the matter, your wires dictate that you must consider yourself separate from the other boxes (and on many levels you most certainly are).

 

[Monocle]

Some of you guys think way too much.

Great point. I wish someone had said that to luminaries like Aristotle and Einstein. Would have saved them the trouble of overextending themselves.

 

[Shorty]

Great point. I wish someone had said that to luminaries like Aristotle and Einstein. Would have saved them the trouble of overextending themselves.

Apples and oranges...

 

[Monocle]

Apples and oranges...

My statement was just about as useful as his.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Please. It's one part generic woo, two parts meaningless mysticism, and four parts impenetrable obscurantism.

Nothing you say is going to change the fact that it's a uncommon opinion and people might find it interesting to read when they have free time whether they think it's delusion or not. Since there too much information for you to have read more than the article titles, I really don't value your current opinion. If you go read the whole thing, and say the same thing, it's not going to hurt my feelings either. I'm not going to defend his beliefs.

He should defend them. He answers emails frequently. I'd be interested in reading a debate between you and him.

To give you a taste, I'll let him argue against the idea of him being delusional:
"
...

Existing paradigms and incontrovertible assumptions sometimes turn out to be completely wrong and so the consideration of seemingly delusional ideas can actually be the best way forward in our quest to understand the true nature of things.
...

Anyway, may you one day come to accept that there are alternative ways to look at things which might not agree with your own views or personal experience and which may well be equally or even more valid.

..."

 

[Shorty]

My statement was just about as useful as his.

his was pretty useful actually. Don't worry too much, the world is a light place

 

[dustytruly]

i just wish someone knew what happened after we died... and then we'd just know.. and that would be it.

i think about it a lot as i try to sleep... but i just remember that i'm going to find out when i die eventually... so i shouldn't worry about it

 

[IrishNinja]

One the one hand he's not a bad read, but there are a lot of teachers who said he didn't quite "get it". He also kind of mashes a lot of things together. But he's not the worst place to start.

can you recommend some better starting points, then?
im a philosophy grad and agnostic, leaning towards atheistm/secular humanism with a strong interest in zen. a friend of mine gave me a copy of the Zen Poetry of Dogen and its good, but i dont know its the best starting point. those Alan Watts vidoes rang true for me, i like what they were on about...any other good recommendations?

 

[Furcas]

Nothing you say is going to change the fact that it's a uncommon opinion and people might find it interesting to read when they have free time whether they think it's delusion or not. Since there too much information for you to have read more than the article titles, I really don't value your current opinion.

I took a statistical sample.

"Existing paradigms and incontrovertible assumptions sometimes turn out to be completely wrong and so the consideration of seemingly delusional ideas can actually be the best way forward in our quest to understand the true nature of things."

Considering an extremely unlikely hypothesis and actually believing it are two different things. He does the latter, but hides it behind the word "consideration" to avoid criticism.

"Anyway, may you one day come to accept that there are alternative ways to look at things which might not agree with your own views or personal experience and which may well be equally or even more valid."

Fluff-free version of the above: "May you one day accept that there are lots of different beliefs and some of yours might be false".

Of course I accept that, nearly everyone does. However, that some of my beliefs may be false doesn't make extremely implausible beliefs more plausible.

 

[RevenantKioku]

This quote can show how an Atheist, too, can appreciate life.


-Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Ever get that feeling that you've known and understood something but never realized it until you read it written by someone else?
That feeling just hit me with this.

 

[bluescreenoflife]

Have fun and do the things you enjoy most.[

 

[BorkBork]

I'm not really good at discussing this sort of stuff in a meaningful manner, so I’m just going to throw some of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite stories from my favorite author (an atheist and a self-proclaimed liar).

On the subject and the pitfall of immortality:

“Life rises out of death, death rises out of life; in being opposite they yearn to each other; they give birth to each other and are forever reborn. And with them all is reborn, the flower of the apple tree, the light of the stars. In life is death. In death is rebirth. What then is life without death? Life unchanging, everlasting, eternal? What is it but death – death without rebirth?”

The absence of change is at the core of the concept of immortality. Is that really a good thing? That's kind of why I don't really find the traditional concept of Heaven to be too appealing. There's no contrast, no highs and lows, just all good all the time. Forever.

And while the theme of reincarnation can certainly be gleaned from this passage, I tend to interpret it outside of that strict definition and take comfort in that. I know even when I die, I have always been part of a bigger system. Knowing what I know about the astonishing processes of life on this planet, I actually think it’s awesome I’ll become worm food and eventually, as Carl Sagan says, star stuff. And that’s pretty damn cool, I think. As for the more philosophical aspects of dying, there’s this:

"I think that when I die, I can breathe back the breath that made me live. I can give back to the world all that I didn't do. All that I might have been and couldn't be. All the choices I didn't make. All the things I lost and spent and wasted. I can give them back to the world. To the lives that haven't been lived yet. That will be my gift back to the world that gave me the life I did live, the love I loved, the breath I breathed."

It’s just a beautiful passage. I don't necessarily believe in it myself, but I love it.

As for the fear of death and non-existence:

"This is. And thou art. There is no safety. There is no end. The word must be heard in silence. There must be darkness to see the stars. The dance is always danced above the hollow place, above the terrible abyss."

“.. for death is terrible and must be feared... and life is also a terrible thing, and must be feared and praised.

Life has great rewards, but it demands choice, action, living. Yet to fully understand and value life, one must face the reality of death. Only then can one achieve true life and full humanity. The second passage also says that it's OK to fear death, not but at the expense of not living your life.

Finally, on the subjects of morality in the absence of an outside power, the freedom of choice and responsibility:

"Do you see how an act is not, as young men think, like a rock that one picks up and throws, and it hits or misses, and that's the end of it. When that rock is lifted, the earth is lighter; the hand that bears it heavier. When it is thrown, the circuits of the stars respond, and where it strikes or falls, the universe is changed. On every act the balance of the whole depends. The winds and seas, the powers of water and earth an light, all that these do, and all that the beasts and green things do, is well done, and rightly done. All these act within the Equilibrium. From the hurricane and the great whale's sounding to the fall of a dry leaf an the gnat's flight, all they do is done within the balance of the whole. But we, insofar as we have power over the world and over one another, we must learn to do what the leaf and the whale and the wind do of their own nature. We must learn to keep the balance. Having intelligence, we must not act in ignorance. Having choice, we must not act without responsibility."

This passage is heavily influenced by Taoism, and outlines a fundamental difference between human beings and animals. We are the only ones that become aware of our deaths. That is both a curse and a blessing. The last two sentences of the passage especially resonate with me; they can be relevant to anyone.

Yup. All of the above passages can be found in a children's book, and one I treasure dearly to this day.

 

[Monocle]

Nothing you say is going to change the fact that it's a uncommon opinion and people might find it interesting to read when they have free time whether they think it's delusion or not. Since there too much information for you to have read more than the article titles, I really don't value your current opinion. If you go read the whole thing, and say the same thing, it's not going to hurt my feelings either. I'm not going to defend his beliefs.

He should defend them. He answers emails frequently. I'd be interested in reading a debate between you and him.

To give you a taste, I'll let him argue against the idea of him being delusional:
"
...

Existing paradigms and incontrovertible assumptions sometimes turn out to be completely wrong and so the consideration of seemingly delusional ideas can actually be the best way forward in our quest to understand the true nature of things.
...

Anyway, may you one day come to accept that there are alternative ways to look at things which might not agree with your own views or personal experience and which may well be equally or even more valid.

..."

This line of reasoning is fast becoming one of the most trite justifications for delusional thinking. Knowledge is indeed revised and occasionally overthrown by new discoveries. It's patently absurd to suggest that this fact calls for us to seriously consider every crackpot idea people dream up. Unfalsifiable claims are to be discarded, no matter how quixotic, intuitive, or emotionally satisfying they may seem. This is one of the fundamental precepts of the scientific method. Without it, scientists would waste so much time on flights of fancy that any coincidental benefit that came of their dawdling would be as nothing compared to the massive loss in true innovation that can only be developed with disciplined research.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

This line of reasoning is fast becoming one of the most trite justifications for delusional thinking. Knowledge is indeed revised and occasionally overthrown by new discoveries. It's patently absurd to suggest that this fact calls for us to seriously consider every crackpot idea people dream up. Unfalsifiable claims are to be discarded, no matter how quixotic, intuitive, or emotionally satisfying they may seem. This is one of the fundamental precepts of the scientific method. Without it, scientists would waste so much time on flights of fancy that any coincidental benefit that came of their dawdling would be as nothing compared to the massive loss in true innovation that can only be developed with disciplined research.

Looking at the website I linked briefly, do you think it's a crackpot idea dreamed up?

I don't know why you're bringing up and linking to the scientific method like I haven't studied it a dozen times in school. How exactly is the scientific method useful in the context of this thread about fearing death and different opinions that wont/can't be proven by the method for a long long time if ever?


major edit/addition:
You guys seem to be lumping him in moon myth & digimon exists category. I also think there's a misconception that this is some new idea.

I really didn't want to discuss the website's content unless the OP wanted to, but I will very briefly.

First, the idea of resurrection is nothing new. Very well heard of. His website says you can see indications in all religious texts though.

Now.. as far as the main theme of the website goes(everyone is god). Here's a simple fact: Pantheism(The belief that everything is god.) is seen especially in Hinduism. But, you can also find quotes that present the idea in every religious text. This is hardly ever talked about, especially on GAF. And I felt it'd be interesting for the OP to think about.

So, the website is there for people to look if they want. Resurrection has already been mentioned by other people in this thread. Overall, I felt that it was relvent to include.

Simple.

Quotes like the following in this thread relate:

I believe in an interconnected universe where everything exists as energy (which is essentially what we are if you consider the bio-electrical energy buzzing around in our brains) which is probably something people see as spiritual garbage and I would too if I hadn't have experienced something that made me think that way.

The website talks about hallucinogenic drugs giving experiences like this. I bet most of the quotes in religious text that imply everyone is god is related to drugs.

 

[NZer]

I've been terrified of non-existence since I was like 9 years old. The idea of an eternity of nothingness gives me panic attacks like nothing else. Like you, I feel life has no meaning if it comes to an end. That said, I can't help but continue to live and do stuff like a normal person. Must be something we humans evolved to keep the species going.

I have nothing that will make you feel better. Just wanted to let you know you're not the only one who feels this way.

Whoa, that's me, right down to the age it started (fuck you, Philadelphia and Tom Hanks!) and the panic attacks (it's the only thought that can start them in my otherwise calm demeanour). It tends to only sporadically hit me (and hit is the right word) late at night these days - the rest of the time my mind is occupied.

 

[Monocle]

Looking at the website I linked briefly, do you think it's a crackpot idea dreamed up?

I don't know why you're bringing up and linking to the scientific method like I haven't studied it a dozen times in school. How exactly is the scientific method useful in the context of this thread about fearing death and different opinions that wont/can't be proven for a long long time if ever?

Excuse me if this sounds brusque, but I don't see why I should have to spell this out for you. My post is a perfectly clear response to the quote I bolded. If you're as familiar with the scientific method as you imply, you know that scientific thinking can be useful outside the lab. Say, in discussions about existential ideas. You know, in a thread like this one. For example.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Excuse me if this sounds brusque, but I don't see why I should have to spell this out for you. My post is a perfectly clear response to the quote I bolded. If you're as familiar with the scientific method as you imply, you know that scientific thinking can be useful outside the lab. Say, in discussions about existential ideas. You know, in a thread like this one. For example.

Now, I may be drunk, but I'm pretty sure it's been discussed that the scientific method is not apt for everything in life.

 

[Monocle]

Now, I may be drunk, but I'm pretty sure it's been discussed that the scientific method is not apt for everything in life.

I'm not saying that it is. Nor have I ever. Nor would I want to. Again, I'll point out that my post was a direct response to a specific quotation that sounds an awful lot like the specious argument I see repeated time and again by proponents of zany ideas. Namely, that the common knowledge of today was the radical, widely maligned theories of yesterday (true enough, until the next bit), and therefore we ought to take seriously any unconventional concept, regardless of where it comes from or how much, if any, evidence is offered to support it. I proceeded to explain why this is flawed thinking. The scientific method is perfectly applicable to such questions.

 

[Quagm1r3]

Sometimes I think I would be a bit more inspired and lively if I was raised a religious person. But then what would I be but an ignorant person unwilling to accept reality?

I remind myself as much as I can that there are other ways to be inspired; through learning/trying new things, meeting new people, and doing whatever else makes me happy. After all, there isn't much more we can do in life than try to get through it with a smile on our faces.

 

[RevenantKioku]

I'm not saying that it is. Nor have I ever. Nor would I want to. Again, I'll point out that my post was a direct response to a specific quotation that sounds an awful lot like the specious argument I see repeated time and again by proponents of zany ideas. Namely, that the common knowledge of today was the radical, widely maligned theories of yesterday (true enough, until the next bit), and therefore we ought to take seriously any unconventional concept, regardless of where it comes from or how much, if any, evidence is offered to support it. I proceeded to explain why this is flawed thinking. The scientific method is perfectly applicable to such questions.

Ah, see here is where an alarm went off for me. I never got the vibe that it should be taken seriously, moreso than it should just be taken. Just take something else in and think differently, even if wrong, in order to open up the mind to potential other thoughts.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I'm not saying that it is. Nor have I ever. Nor would I want to. Again, I'll point out that my post was a direct response to a specific quotation that sounds an awful lot like the specious argument I see repeated time and again by proponents of zany ideas. Namely, that the common knowledge of today was the radical, widely maligned theories of yesterday (true enough, until the next bit), and therefore we ought to take seriously any unconventional concept, regardless of where it comes from or how much, if any, evidence is offered to support it. I proceeded to explain why this is flawed thinking. The scientific method is perfectly applicable to such questions.

The quote is regarding his ideas about afterlife and god. His ideas are really nothing new. Nothing is a crack pot "digimon exists" belief. One idea discussed is resurrection.

So,for example, I didn't see how the scientific method was relevant to a discussion of whether resurrection is what happens or not.

It can slowly and indirectly effect the belief of what happens after life. For instance.. people claim to see ghosts. We can personally use cheap every day technology to prove/disprove ghosts by ghost hunting. After many many years, there's still mostly only quick sitings. Nothing is confirmed and it hasn't determined the overall question.

Directly... Everyone in this thread has opinions/beliefs that were constructed over time and they're just expressing them. They aren't testing them with an experiment. They have no way of proving any of their after life opinions, especially with the scientific method. Which is why I said it's not useful presently.

The only thing that separates the opinions is creditability of who they got influenced by and popularity(how norm it is). When one is less popular, it gets bashed.

You also mentioned scientific thinking. That's different from the method. It doesn't necessarily include an experiment and it is indeed useful in the thread.

 

[Lé Blade Runner]

I apologize for not reading through the whole thread - I had to stop somewhere in the middle of the first page. A couple of very good and thoughtful replies there, however, so read them with care.

I understand exactly what you are going through, as I have experienced something very similar to yourself. I, too, come from a religious background ( evangelic lutherian ), but don't consider myself very religious anymore. I started to change once I moved out from my hometown to study elsewhere, and I think that it is a very natural progression towards independence to start questioning everything you used to take for granted. In that sense you shouldn't worry - you will start to feel better as time goes on.

I do read the Bible from time to time, and I have actually begun to appreciate religion from a different perspective. I understand why some people need it, and I don't blame them for that. The notion of a grander scheme and a specific purpose for life is soothing, and easy to hold on to. If you still feel drawn towards it, you shouldn't listen to anybody else but yourself - to heck with immaculate logic and human reasoning - and just go with it.

To regard life as just a coinsidence is, as a thought, all the rage these days. But when I look at the star-filled sky at night, and wonder at the mystery of why all of this is here and why everything works the way it does ( planets, stars, galaxies ), I can not help but to feel mesmerized. I don't know if there is a grand plan to all of this, but man, life exists, and it is amazing. I don't know if I believe in an after-life anymore, but I do believe in the inevitability of life itself, and the cyclic nature of it actually comforts me. Every second somebody is born and somebody dies. Every second a new plant starts to grow somewhere, and an old one dies. Isn't it just fucking beautiful?

I am not as afraid of death as I used to be, which is quite contradictory as I used to believe that I will go to heaven and live forever. My grand-father, who was very close to me and has had a huge influence on me as a person, died about a year and a half ago. He lived to be 76 years old, enjoyed his life on a day-to-day basis, and on his death-bed, he was content. He felt that he had had a fulfilling life, he was very happy that his grand-children were making their way in the world, and he said that the only thing he is going to miss is the fact that he can't follow our lives anymore. He died happy and peaceful. The more I have thought about this the better I have felt about life in general. It doesn't really matter if there is 'nothing beyond', as everything we decide to do right now has a meaning to somebody - be it yourself or a stranger in the bus. And if you start to think about whether it matters how you live your life anymore, then think about this: it is the small things that matter the most. If you can gain happiness and meaning from smiling and being polite to strangers; living as well as possible; you are a winner. Life is here and now, for you, so you should make the best of it and just enjoy.

Sorry for this wall of text and sounding like a cliché-machine, but I really do feel good about life right now. And like I said earlier, I've gone through what you are going through right now. So don't worry.

 

[Monocle]

Sometimes I think I would be a bit more inspired and lively if I was raised a religious person. But then what would I be but an ignorant person unwilling to accept reality?

I remind myself as much as I can that there are other ways to be inspired; through learning/trying new things, meeting new people, and doing whatever else makes me happy. After all, there isn't much more we can do in life than try to get through it with a smile on our faces.

Read the King James version of the Bible, or another holy book of your choice. View devotional paintings, listen to religious music. All the inspiration can be yours with none of the credulity. Rejoice.

Ah, see here is where an alarm went off for me. I never got the vibe that it should be taken seriously, moreso than it should just be taken. Just take something else in and think differently, even if wrong, in order to open up the mind to potential other thoughts.

Oh, that makes sense. I'm happy to entertain ideas I find implausible. My quarrel was with the notion that the truth value of baseless claims is enhanced by the historical vindication of important discoveries or inventions that were initially considered improbable.

The quote is regarding his ideas about afterlife and god. His ideas are really nothing new. Nothing is a crack pot "digimon exists" belief. One idea discussed is resurrection.

So,for example, I didn't see how the scientific method was relevant to a discussion of whether resurrection is what happens or not.

It can slowly and indirectly effect the belief of what happens after life. For instance.. people claim to see ghosts. We can personally use cheap every day technology to prove/disprove ghosts by ghost hunting. After many many years, there's still mostly only quick sitings. Nothing is confirmed and it hasn't determined the overall question.

Directly... Everyone in this thread has opinions/beliefs that were constructed over time and they're just expressing them. They aren't testing them with an experiment. They have no way of proving any of their after life opinions, especially with the scientific method. Which is why I said it's not useful presently.

The only thing that separates the opinions is creditability of who they got influenced by and popularity(how norm it is). When one is less popular, it gets bashed.

You also mentioned scientific thinking. That's different from the method. It doesn't necessarily include an experiment and it is indeed useful in the thread.

Thanks for making those clarifications. I see where you're coming from now.

 

[Mash]

Would it really be so wonderful to have been created for a purpose? To find out I was designed by a divine overseer, my function and worth predetermined, would be by my most optimistic standard a crushing disappointment. It would invalidate my individuality and undermine my values to learn that everything I am arose from another mind, rather than the sum of my life experiences and personal choices in tandem or tension with my genetic imperatives. Isn't it far more grand to embrace the truth of our situation as we currently understand it—that we alone are responsible to create our own meaning? Is it such a poor thing to take rudder in hand and steer our own lives as best we can with the wisdom of great scholars, philosophers, scientists, and artists as our guide?

There are several problems with Mash's view that religion provides a reason for living. A big one is that the purpose of life, according to most religions, is to please god. Beyond the absurdity of devoting one's precious time to exalting a being that almost certainly doesn't exist, it's deeply dissatisfying on an intellectual level to resign oneself to the role of a lowly acolyte, one cog in a vast machine that generates eternal praise for its creator. And for what? Why, being given the opportunity to offer eternal praise, of course. It's an exquisitely grotesque piece of circular logic. Maybe it's just me, but existence would seem a lot less appealing if humans were the marionettes of an egocentric omnipotent supervisor who is privy to our innermost thoughts. We should all be grateful that there is not a shred of evidence to support this ghastly idea.

Woah. Yeah I didn't say that. At all. I really dislike religion and have been an atheist my entire adult life. My point was that religion is a (albeit crude) form of instilling meaning, by way of purpose, into lives. Religion is a social and cultural institution and is "prebaked" for people before they are even born. Coming to find real meaning in ways that don't point to the heavens is something the OP will have to deal with and it's not as simple as pointing out being under the thumb of some deity actually wouldn't be that great.

You're also doing a Richard Dawkins impression, stop it.

 

[Always-honest]

life is short. do what you like/ want. it matters not, cause all will be gone someday

 

[Lé Blade Runner]

Ah, forgot to add this - two excerpts from a poem by Robert Herrick:

Gather ye rosebuds while ye may,
Old Time is still a-flying:
And this same flower that smiles to-day
To-morrow will be dying.

The glorious lamp of heaven, the sun,
The higher he's a-getting,
The sooner will his race be run,
And nearer he's to setting.

 

[Always-honest]

Ah, forgot to add this - two excerpts from a poem by Robert Herrick:

Gather ye rosebuds while ye may,
Old Time is still a-flying:
And this same flower that smiles to-day
To-morrow will be dying.

The glorious lamp of heaven, the sun,
The higher he's a-getting,
The sooner will his race be run,
And nearer he's to setting.

a lotta words for what i said.

 

[Monocle]

Woah. Yeah I didn't say that. At all. I really dislike religion and have been an atheist my entire adult life. My point was that religion is a (albeit crude) form of instilling meaning, by way of purpose, into lives. Religion is a social and cultural institution and is "prebaked" for people before they are even born. Coming to find real meaning in ways that don't point to the heavens is something the OP will have to deal with and it's not as simple as pointing out being under the thumb of some deity actually wouldn't be that great.

You're also doing a Richard Dawkins impression, stop it.

Fair enough, then. But I didn't set out to solve all the OP's problems. I shared some insights that have been useful in my own life.

You said earlier that "meaningful life outside of religion is clearly possible, but the challenge largely ignored or glossed over with [the platitude 'invent your own meaning'] is that of actively finding meaning in life in a Godless universe." Ironically, you identified the spirit of that phrase in your rejection of it. Inventing your own meaning is all about the search for a good and worthy and fulfilling life purpose in absence of supernatural motivation.

 

[Rewrite]

I'm scared of death, so I can relate to how the OP feels. I guess one day I will have to accept it and get it over with, but it's hard when you have people that you know die.

 

[Parl]

I don't have answers for you, but I went through a similar crisis of faith. I can only tell you the conclusion I came to.

I read Leviticus, which is a ginormous head fuck for ANY religious person. It pretty much lets you know that what's included in all religious texts is a collection of texts, documents, and ideas put together by mere mortals like us.

The bible is not a science, it's merely suggested reading for Christians. It was put into a big book by mortals. Some people see it as 100% truth. It's not though. It's merely their best guess.

So after a couple years of struggle with that, I though about life, the universe, religion, morality, and came to my own conclusions. I realized that faith is extremely important to being a well rounded individual. Spiritual belonging is important. But I also realized that the people who put the bible together, and mad the religious constraints we abide by were MORTALS. That's a hard thing to accept. But after much trouble, I accepted it. God has always been with me. I know that. That's hard for most people to understand. He's been with me though. I believe in him firmly. I also believe that all religions have twisted the meaning of God not based on Him, but based on their own biases, political beliefs etc.

So my only advice is to find your own way. Arm yourself with knowledge, prayer, and don't give up hope. I gave up hope for a couple years there, and it was the darkest time of my life. I can't explain the universe. I can't explain why an atom is even here. There shouldn't' be anything. Not a single atom. Yet, here we are. God is probably kinder that we give him credit. He's probably, happier than we give him credit. But who knows. You have to follow your heart to your own conclusions on the matter. I'm certain that's what God wants. He doesn't want you to believe because that's your culture, or that's what you were told, he want you to believe because it's logical, and it's what makes sense to you.

Corny? Yeah. Absolutely. But it gives me peace, and I believe it firmly. The day we think we are our own God's is the day society collapses under it's own egotistical, infallable, and narcissistic people.

Good story, but this is for somebody who is incapable/unwilling to believe without evidence. I think that's the point. The comfort derived from believing in God makes it no less real to the OP. He wants to deal with truth as he's incapable of going back to the illusion.

I can't offer much assistance myself as I've always been a non-believer, and I guess it's much easier that way as you're happy with the reality from day 1, and can only be unhappy from real world situations just like anybody, whether they grasp at a higher power or not. My understanding is that people deal with it and have the benefit of seeing the real world and embracing reality, which often is more comforting than their previous illusion.

 

[Chao]

Sounds like quarter life crisis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarter-life_crisis

Thanks, finally I know what's been happening with me lately. I'm glad it's just a phase.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

The point of life is to have the best sex ever, and drink the best beer ever, and play the best video games ever.