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[Silent_Ocarina]

Alright, I'll try to enumerate.

The mechanics and progression were still largely slavish reiterations of what came before. You still have a boring sequence where the game pens you in at the beginning forces you to wander around aimlessly before making you find a sword (except it's way, way longer this time). You still have the same slow, archaic text prompts and canned animations for doors and items.

The introductions might be lengthy in recent Zelda games, but the games hardly force you to "wander aimlessly." Whether or not you enjoy the tasks the games give you is another question entirely. I'm not sure why door-opening animations count against Zelda games for being derivative of Ocarina of Time. They're just doors.

The enemies still mill about and wait for you to take them on singly and they mostly take about 3 hits each. These enemies don't really ever fight you in intelligent ways. They just have a little machine dance they do, where they have a specific moment when they give you a prescribed opening to attack them. And they'll hold that opening until the moment when you attack. Otherwise their guard is perfect. They don't have any AI to speak of, just a dance routine. There's no way to fake them out, overpower their guard, outmaneuver them, or anything else you'd expect in a modern combat system. Just the same basic dance they've been using since Ocarina.

Can you give me an example of a modern combat system? You might not have enjoyed Skyward Sword's combat, but again, it isn't some stock system taken from Ocarina of Time. Also, you can fake out the enemies. They follow your sword. You can run up the shields of Moblins. You have to vary your approach on Skulltulas if they're on the ground as opposed to hanging on a web. I do agree about the overly defensive nature of enemies in Skyward Sword, but once again, this isn't something simply lifted from Ocarina of Time.

The way in which you progress through the dungeons is still largely the same, with the same key and door, push this thing, light this torch style puzzles. You've got one dungeon where you control the height of water to get around.

You forgot to mention the bit where every dungeon is absolutely different from Ocarina of Time. I honestly don't understand why you even mentioned doors and keys. Those are series staples. It's like claiming Zelda games are all the same because you have a sword. Or something like that. I also don't remember many, if any, push-the-block puzzles and torch lighting puzzles. I actually just remembered two block puzzles as I'm typing this, and only one involved using it to weigh down a switch. Controlling the water height doesn't make Ancient Cistern a clone of the Water Temple. It's more focused, in my opinion, on

Spoiler

the rising and falling center statue and using a thread to climb out if a metaphorical Hell. I also don't recall Time Stones in Ocarina of Time.

The dungeons in Skyward Sword are unique and distinct. The fact that you need keys or switches or items to clear each one doesn't negate that.

You still get almost all your tools from dungeons and don't really use them outside of the place you find them. (The beetle was neat, but in terms of puzzles was often just a more obtuse hook shot.)

In Skyward Sword, at least, items were still useful outside of their dungeons. Also, the Beetle could carry bombs. This led to puzzles that's Hookshot couldn't accomplish.

The bosses, like the normal enemies, are still these amusement park rides that you do a little dance with until the game decides that now the boss will fall down and you can wail on them until you get three free hits, at which point they're invincible and will rise up to repeat the dance two more times.

Did you want Zelda to be a more hack-and-slash game? Bosses have patterns, and you must figure out those patterns. I can definitely see where you're coming from with bosses similar to King Dodongo, but claiming that every boss does the same little dance is a bit unfair. The game doesn't just decide to make them fall. You have to figure out how to make them vulnerable. I could use basic terms to describe most bosses in video game history as well.

You still interact with the world and enemies in basically the same mechanical, physics free way you did back in 1998. The world itself is obviously self-contained little boxes with loading gates rather than a large, immersive land to roam. The items and creatures you find inside are all strictly static and can be interacted with in one single, mechanical way. It doesn't feel organic enough for a game that came out just a year ago. I suppose a lot of that is just the technology they had to work with. But that's a flaw in Nintendo's approach. Skyward Sword is very polished in some ways, but the game's design is just new skin on the very same bones they've been using since 1998. The gimmicks are just gimmicks rather than true advancements to the core of the game.

Most games feature loading times between areas. It has nothing to do with being similar to Ocarina of Time. In fact, Skyward Sword did away with the Hyrule Field hub in favor of more closed areas (which I personally didn't enjoy). What would you have enemies do? One enemy relieves itself on your head. Shooting an arrow gives away your position. Throwing a bomb makes them run away from it. You can sprinkle some sort of fungal powder on them if you wish.

I'm convinced that there's nothing Nintendo can do to Zelda to avoid the "it's more of the same" argument bar the most extreme scenarios (like setting the story in the future).

 

[Shion]

I want an impressive, big, open, interconnected and seamless overworld. I want a huge Hyrule that feels alive, an immersive world that gives me a sense of scale, adventure, danger and discovery.

Give me awesome NPCs and a lot of content outside the main quest. The main quest doesn't need to have more than 4 dungeons (imo). I'd like to see most of the game's content being outside the main quest so it can be presented in a less linear approach. With various types of quests and dungeons, as well as mini-dungeons, scattered around the overworld in the form of caves, ruins, towers etc.

- Real-time Day/Night cycles and NPC routines should come back imo. They make the world feel so much more alive and non-static.

- I'd like to see dungeons with maze-like designs.

- Normal controls and a Dark Souls-style battle system.

- Handholding should be completely optional.

- The opening sequence needs to be epic and immerse you into the world of the game. Scrap the huge, tedious, village-themed tutorials and make a linear beginning sequence in the style of A Link to the Past.

As for the graphics, I'm OK with both "realistic" and stylized approaches. I just want an awesome art-style and beautiful, immersive and atmospheric environments in my Zelda.

 

[Skilletor]

In Modern Zelda
Old Man: "It's very dangerous to wonder the overworked alone, press select to check your map. Now press Up on the control pad to come closer. Here take this sword it will help you defeat enemies. Press A to hit enemies and defeat. Some enemies are defeated with one hit and some require more, after defeating an enemy you will be rewarded with rupees or other items, the rupees seen on the upper screen will help you buy items from shops located in various places on the game map. In case of having your heart meter full which is located on the upper left corner of your screen you can shoot sword beams, this will be quiet helpful in defeating enemies without coming close. Now to exit the cave press down on your control pad,


Do you want me to repeat?"

You just made me sad.

 

[Qwell]

Have the developers play Darksiders 1 and 2 a whole bunch to learn how to inform players of how to play your game.

- Get to the story / action sooner

- Add character voices (I know, I'm evil / stupid / whatever)

 

[Guevara]

As others have said just crib a bunch from Dark Souls. Add towns and puzzles in the 'dungeons'. That's it really.

 

[Linkhero1]

I don't really want to go deep into it, but there are some aspects that I would to see. Don't give me WW art style, give me more side-quests that have meaning like in MM, no more bullshit empty overworld.

 

[Whiskeymatt]

I want a revised version of the Wind Waker combat system. Combat in that game was easy, which is what I want revised, but Link was just so damn mobile and fluid in that game. It was hard to go from Wind Waker to Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword, because the following two games really toned down the combat mobility that Link had. Give me the crazy parries from Wind Waker, turn them into some sort of easy-to-pick-up-hard-to-master combo system, and build a really good Zelda game around that.

And make sure there are more than 4 main areas in the game this time. That design choice for Skyward Sword was terrible.

Edit: Although, I will admit that the motion control swordplay from Skyward Sword really shined for a few parts of the game. It just wasn't often enough for me.

 

[Xelinis]

Give it to Koizumi.

 

[The Boat]

My wish list:

1. Have more faith in your players to figure things out and don't be afraid of scaring people off. So cut down on enforced helper mechanics, though definitely leave them in, superguide style, for people who do get stuck. Don't cut out one audience for the sake of another.

2. For god's sake don't listen to your fans otherwise, and don't listen to hardcore gamers who want every game to be like the last big game they played. Just make whatever the hell you want.

That's it.

As usual, I like the way you do business.

 

[JaseMath]

What I'd love:

1. Make the overworld one enormous, open-world temple with puzzles that span the entirety of the game. "Traditional" temples should house items, keys and the occasional piece of map for the larger world temple. Also, give players reasons to go back to old temples (for item collection, power-ups, etc.) ala Metroid.

2. The first two items Link should receive are a small piece of map and a compass. Also, instead of finding a sword right off the bat, make him fend for himself using alternate means such as a Deku sticks and/or throwing bushes/boulders.

3. Pieces of the heart should be halves and have an immediate effect on overall health capacity. Also, they shouldn't be obvious rewards - make the player really work and search for them.

4. Cut out the hand-holding and the overly long intro tutorials.

 

[djtiesto]

R
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Nintendo's primary Western franchise needs a Western perspective.
Never gonna happen though.

I liked Retro's work on DKC Returns but please, no. No more westernization of Japanese franchises, it hardly ever works right. Let Retro do something original.

 

[Gravijah]

no motion+
new artstyle

that's about it. they can do, and i'd prefer if they did, whatever they want otherwise.

 

[burntchomsky]

more like dark souls

If Zelda had dark souls-depth of combat / magic, as well as interesting world that rewards exploration, I can just imagine this awesome game...

 

[Juken]

Less handholding with SS artstyle

 

[Mike M]

Essential things:
1. Skippable/speed scroll text. The fact that the series still lacks this blows my fucking mind.

2. Camera control. Pressing z to center as the sole form of camera movement doesn't cut it anymore.

3. No fucking motion control on fucking pointer icons. The M+ aiming in Skyward Sword was a decided step backwards from the IR controls of Twilight Princess. Whhhhhhhy?

4. Tone down the tutorials, don't repeat instructions on every god damned attempt.

5. Rewards proportional to the effort. There was no bigger kick to the nuts than tracking down all those gold skulltulas for nothing.

6. You already told me what this item is, stop explaining it to me every time I pick it up.

Personal Preferences
1. I largely detest the direction character design had gone since OoT. It's improved somewhat from the grotesque, malformed monstrosities villagers that game had, but the games are still populated by "wacky" character designs that are actually just terrible. Beedle, Groose's sidekicks, everyone with a giant red clown nose... Awful.

2. I know it would be Zelda heresy, but I'd like to see more equipable weapons besides just varying strengths of sword. The Biggoran Sword was a step in the right direction, maybe some third weapon like making the hammer more versatile, and I'd be satisfied. But I'd want to be able to use to defeat an enemy, not just use it to disarm them or pull off a shield and switch to a sword.

3. Wind Waker's sea and Skyward's skies were vast expanses of boredom. OoT's Hyrule field was a grassy crater of nothing. I liked Twilight Princess's overworld quite a bit, and Skyward's on ground parts even more. Do Skyward's level of intracacy on traditional Zelda scale, and I'm happy.

 

[eXistor]

I'm sure I'll be perfectly content with whatever Nintendo comes up with. However I'd like to see Nintendo let players go free a bit more and let players unravel mysteries by themselves, not because your partner says so. I'd say they have the perfect excuse to do so with Miiverse. If you're stuck, go to Miiverse for help!

I'd also like a more interconnected world, like Dark Souls or the 2d overhead Zelda's.

 

[MatthewB92]

I just want the story to be something at one of the end of the time lines. Maybe something from after Zelda II. Also keep motions controls.

 

[impact]

Zelda Souls

No forced motion controls, skippable tutorials, actual difficulty

 

[hunnies28]

Less hand holding.

Include the option to skip the tutorials. All of them.

Make a world big enough that you actually feel like exploring, like a forest where you can actually get lost.

Make the bosses less of a 3 hit roller coster.

 

[Juken]

Whether you like them or not, motion controls are probably gone. Miyamoto hinted as much in an e3 interview.

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2012/06/08/e3-2012-miyamoto-talks-zelda-wii-u

Pretty sure the Gamepad will be the primary controller anyways, so will play a much more minor role.

 

[SmithnCo]

First dungeon serves as a subtle tutorial. No more of this long-winded crap that's plagued it recently. Obvious one.

More new items (also obvious), I liked stuff like the magnet gloves from Ages/Seasons.

 

[Arla]

- No more cel-shading/toon-link.

- High Fantasy setting.

- No more travel gimmicks. Give me Epona.

- A greater focus on combat, enemy variety/difficulty.

- Make Koji Kondo the lead composer of the orchestral soundtrack.

- Greatly reduce the number of fetch quests.

- Voice acting for everyone but Link.

After I played Twilight Princess in 2008, I played four terrible Zeldas in a row (Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword) and they all had two things in common. Cel-shading and a time wasting travel gimmick. SS was more involved when it came to combat but the enemies were still boring. I know Zelda has always had it's puzzles but it feels as if combat has taken a dramatic step back and the puzzles are more prominent then ever. Spirit Tracks is guilty of this.

I just want another beautiful and fun Zelda game, even it is safe like Twilight Princess. These attempts at innovation (control schemes, travel gimmicks, etc) have soured me on my favorite franchise of all time. If they release another turd, I don't think I can handle it.

Anyways, that's my wishlist and I think it's fairly realistic. A lot of what some people ask for is a absurd and never gonna happen but I guess that's why it's a wishlist.

 

[Mike M]

Addendum:
Motion control 8-way sword swinging is OK in principle, but in practice it made for little more than trying to get the controller to respond correctly to swing in the one direction that wasn't being blocked to start swing spamming a staggered enemy. Surely we can come up with a better imementation.

 

[The Boat]

Whether you like them or not, motion controls are probably gone. Miyamoto hinted as much in an e3 interview.

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2012/06/08/e3-2012-miyamoto-talks-zelda-wii-u

Pretty sure the Gamepad will be the primary controller anyways, so will play a much more minor role.

He kind of... says the exact opposite.

"And I thought that was a lot of fun, but there were some people who weren’t able to do that or didn’t like it as much and stopped playing partway through it. So we’re in the phase where we’re looking back at what’s worked very well and what has been missing and how can we evolve it further.

Together with Aonuma stating he wants to keep using motion controls... nothing's certain, but I don't see any evidence to back up what you're saying.

 

[Spirit Icana]

Aonuma: I’ll let Kondo-san talk about the music afterwards but from my perspective, and Ifeel kind of bad saying this, but I generally don’t try to take into account the players expectations of what they want from a Zelda game when making a new one.

The reason for that is… players don’t necessarily know what they want – we need to be able to surprise them. So where we put a lot of our focus is on creating those new experiences that are going to make the game feel fresh and different.

Aonuma Style!

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

If there aren't motion controls, make Link left-handed again.

 

[Arla]

I want an impressive, big, open, interconnected and seamless overworld. I want a huge Hyrule that feels alive, an immersive world that gives me a sense of scale, adventure, danger and discovery.

Would you mind giving me an example of a game that fits this criteria? Because I sure as hell have never played one.

 

[JaseMath]

If there aren't motion controls, make Link left-handed again.

Fuck yes - this too.

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

Look towards Adventures of Link and Dark Souls. Make it less of a linear puzzle game and more of an action rpg like it used to be.

I think its time to give girly oot Link design a rest for awhile and go with something a little more rugged adventurer type or old school anime like the 80s Zelda art.

 

[Juken]

He kind of... says the exact opposite.

Together with Aonuma stating he wants to keep using motion controls... nothing's certain, but I don't see any evidence to back up what you're saying.

I read it differently. I think he's saying that although he personally enjoyed the controls and they worked well, a significant part of the audience didn't enjoy them. So when he says they have to look back at what did/didn't work in the game, he puts motion in the didn't work category.

But I can see how your interpretation makes sense too. Regardless, I'd be shocked if they used the Wiimote instead of the Gamepad as the primary controller so motion will probably be toned down.

 

[The Boat]

I read it differently. I think he's saying that although he personally enjoyed the controls and they worked well, a significant part of the audience didn't enjoy them. So when he says they have to look back at what did/didn't work in the game, he puts motion in the didn't work category.

But I can see how your interpretation makes sense too. Regardless, I'd be shocked if they used the Wiimote instead of the Gamepad as the primary controller so motion will probably be toned down.

Keywords there for me are "evolve it further".
With that said, I don't doubt that with time they'll choose to use the gamepad.

 

[Sadsic]

new artstyle again

built around entirely new timeline point

overworld connected

nonlinear, can pick which dungeons to do first

upgrades from skyward sword expanded upon

darker story a la majora's mask

not oot 2.0

series hallmarks brought back in new/varied ways instead of standard, similar to wind waker

high amount of dungeons

Would you mind giving me an example of a game that fits this criteria? Because I sure as hell have never played one.

might get flak for this, but pandaria in wow is pretty amazing like this

 

[Mike M]

Non linear dungeons would be a tough sell, seems like it would be exceedingly difficult to design interesting puzzles that can be compelted before you obtain a given item from a previous dungeon.

Though the idea of a few "super dungeons" with specific sub sections available only upon grabbing items from other dungeons might work out, but I doubt that amount of backtracking would be well recieved.

 

[Joeshabadoo]

After I played Twilight Princess in 2008, I played four terrible Zeldas in a row (Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword)

terrible? really? you would classify those games as terrible?

okay

Keywords there for me are "evolve it further".
With that said, I don't doubt that with time they'll choose to use the gamepad.

one way I can see them keeping some of the directional swipe freedom is by contextualizing the use of one of the sticks for precision sword fighting while you're z-targeting. If you're right handed, you would move with the left stick and control the camera with the right stick for much of the time (generic sword swipe/combos assigned to button), but when z-targeted you can effect the direction and speed of sword attacks using the right stick, and possibly click the stick in to jab. They can then extrapolate further by having shield control governed by subtle gyro movements of the gamepad. Like you wouldn't need to hold it out in front of you, but once you engage z-targeting, whatever position the game recognizes the pad to be in is a center point and the player can use subtle changes to angle/position to guard against some tougher directional attacks. Maybe give the pad a light thrust to shield bash. That's all assuming you have a shield equipped. Just spit-balling here, but they have alot they can do.

after re-reading that it doesn't sound much like a combat system that a wider audience could adopt. eh maybe idk

 

[womp]

Gamecube Animal Crossing engine using this art style cell shaded.

No stupid helper character to tutor and hold my hand. Classic control scheme. No gimmicks. No 'central hub' BS, give me a true overworld to run around in and explore.

 

[Whiskeymatt]

After I played Twilight Princess in 2008, I played four terrible Zeldas in a row (Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword)

...

Anyways, that's my wishlist and I think it's fairly realistic. A lot of what some people ask for is a absurd and never gonna happen but I guess that's why it's a wishlist.

Hilarious.

 

[womp]

Hilarious.

The fact he skipped Twilight Princess notwithstanding, I kind of agree with him. Phantom Hourglass is easily the worst Zelda game.

 

[Whiskeymatt]

The fact he skipped Twilight Princess notwithstanding, I kind of agree with him. Phantom Hourglass is easily the worst Zelda game.

I guess you could make the argument based on how much you hate the repeated temple thing and all, but I still really enjoyed it in spite of that. I really wouldn't call it a terrible Zelda game.

 

[Joeshabadoo]

The repeated temple thing is technically one of the freshest ideas in a Zelda title in many years. I happen to really enjoy the elements of light stealth, time attack, item usage, and persistence it introduced. Felt like I was actually delving further and further into some ancient and mysterious realm closed off to the outside for ages. The game had it's issues, no doubt, but I loved the temple of the Ocean King (the Spirit Tower as well, and the final floors of the spirit tower represent some of the finest dungeon design the series has seen in a loooooooooong time)

 

[womp]

I guess you could make the argument based on how much you hate the repeated temple thing and all, but I still really enjoyed it in spite of that. I really wouldn't call it a terrible Zelda game.

The fact it had no true overworld or exploration (which offended me most since that is one of the core rules of a Zelda game as a whole and randomly looking for treasure in a predefined ocean doesn't count), whacked controls just for the sake of using the touch screen, and it held your hand like a baby...

Boring dungeons and repeated temple BS was laziness. The whole using the touch screen to make notes for maps and what not was IMO the best part of the game.

I really think Zelda needs to get back to the basics. We a need another Link to the Past at the least in terms of the ideals that of what I would love to see in a new Zelda.

I don't need some massive BS storyline, I don't need a bunch of AI characters...I want to feel like I am on my own to explore Hyrule in an adventure on my own accord of discovery. The "OK, point A is reached, proceed to point B to trigger a cutscene" crap needs to stop.

 

[prwxv3]

It needs to have a skippable tutorial, multiple difficulty levels unlocked from the start, and less padding.

 

[Joeshabadoo]

Also thought the touch controls worked like a charm, so we have some fundamental disagreements

 

[Arla]

Hilarious.

Mind pointing out what part of my wishlist is unrealistic?

 

[Arla]

And yes, I consider those four Zelda games terrible. Wind Waker is a snoozefest, Phantom Hourglass is a mess with that repeating dungeon, Spirit Tracks is a shame because it has the best Zelda (character wise) to date but it's slow and mainly a puzzle game, Skyward Sword has too many issues to bother listing.


Good for you if you enjoy those four games but I thought they were terrible. Opinions.

 

[atbigelow]

Seamless world. I was so very bummed by Skyward Sword's fake seamless world. Everytime I went to Skyloft it was a constant reminder that, yes it is totally a possible thing to do.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I would just like Nintendo to be more ambitious. Be more trusting of those who play the games.

 

[Mit-]

Seems like everyone wants a giant, persistent Hyrule. I have a feeling Aonuma's team does not have the capacity for that. Nintendo doesn't seem to hire teams that rival the size of western AAA development games.

It's hard for me to believe they'll be able to create anything more than Twilight Princess' Hyrule with higher poly counts, higher-res textures, and more lighting and effects and shit.

Skyward Sword spent more time on art design and ended up just making everything more linear. Game was beautiful but there was no exploration. You just opened up big new 'levels' essentially and played through them.


And I hope they go back to the swordplay in Twilight Princess, which I think is possible if they want you to use the Gamepad as a controller. I enjoyed the hell out of learning new skills and the more tactical swordplay. They need to continue to expand upon that model, combining a lot of the abilities with stuff like breakable shields from Skyward Sword. Should be some timing elements to blocking. Execute a "just guard" of sorts (fighting game term: hit block at the exact right moment) and prevent shield damage or recover from the hit stun faster.

 

[Skilletor]

It would be odd for them to make a game that you couldn't use the controller bundled with the console. I think motion controls as a driving force are gone.

 

[SmellyHands]

Can you make Link a girl? Is that really all that crazy since it's basically a different Link in every game? Wouldn't that spice things up a bit and just help freshen things up a bit?

 

[Solid SOAP]

I want a new top down Zelda, for real. Wind Waker visuals in HD with Link's Awakening style dungeons and overworld. Map and items put on the U Pad for easy access, it'd be awesome. Simple story too, save Zelda, beat Ganon. I'd love it.