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[Jangocube]

I hope CEOs of major American corporations are paying attention to this and calling the Republicans to end their shenanigans.

Um, they usually side with Republicans, mainly because of all the glorious tax breaks they give them.

 

[s7evn]

I'm finding this whole thing odd. Is the president and White House suppose to be so hands off in situations like this? In nearly every important decision, the prez and White House seems to just wait for republican and democrat senators to fight it out and come to an agreement that he then signs and takes all the praise....or scorn.

What I'm really trying to say or ask is can't the White House make their own proposal or do they have to go through the senators? Just like the gays in military debate a few months back and even universal healthcare they seem hands off and all the negotiations is done by the senators. Is that how it normally is or suppose to happen? It never seems like the administration is directly involved other than lashing out at republicans.

I think the constitution gives only the legislature the power to propose economic issues. The President could approach the legislature with a plan, but they would have to pass it.

 

[Einbroch]

We're fucked, aren't we.

 

[Clevinger]

We're fucked, aren't we.

I think the most likely scenario is that it'll get mini-raised and we'll have to deal with this insane bullshit again in 6 months.

 

[LQX]

Yes. Usually the White House will inform Congress of what it wants and/or what it will veto and then lets them shape the legislation. The President has zero power with legislation development other than signing it into law and vetoing. He can, however, help with negotiations.

The President is completely hands on with this as a mediator because of how important it is compared to your average bill.

Ahh, that explains a lot actually. Thanks. I thought maybe the White House could provide a third option in many cases but were instead reluctant because of political blowback so instead rather just watch both sides bicker and fight for an mutual agreement.

 

[Particle Physicist]

It's almost like Republicans are an opposing political party

You don't play political games with the debt ceiling. Peoples livelihoods are at stake. This is beyond disgusting.

 

[onadesertedisland]

I think the most likely scenario is that it'll get mini-raised and we'll have to deal with this insane bullshit again in 6 months.

and the republicans will blame Obama, insisting his weak leadership lead to a repeat of the same problem.

 

[airmangataosenai]

It's almost like Republicans are an opposing political party

Back in my day, the "opposing political party" wasn't willing to risk destroying the world economy to win an election, but maybe I'm just naive.

 

[Pctx]

Honestly at this point... I don't care anymore. Bring on the 2nd American Revolution.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Whoa hold on now. We can't have the country going to war with itself.

I live in a republican-filled neighborhood(including two room-mates). I wouldn't survive the run to my car.

 

[Particle Physicist]

I don't know what you mean. The President has been all over this for the last two months, negotiating with representatives from the House and Senate. But he can't just issue something by executive order, he has to sign a bill into law. His leverage is that he can veto any bill, so obviously whatever passes through Congress has to be kosher to him.

You know what. I know that the Republicans and the Media have painted Obama as being incredibly hands-off and lacking in leadership, but as far as I can remember, he seems to be one of the most hands-on presidents that I have lived through. I don't remember past presidents having so many meeting with congress over so many bills.

 

[[Nintex]]

From what I read about this subject today even if Obama and Boehner come up with an agreement and a plan the congress will still have to vote for it right?

 

[Vestal]

From what I read about this subject today even if Obama and Boehner come up with an agreement and a plan the congress will still have to vote for it right?

Yes any sort of agreement still needs the Majority vote from both houses.

 

[Freshmaker]

Aren't student loans only for paying tuition/books and not designed to pay for stuff like rent? Or is there no restriction?

They just give you money. How you spend it is up to you.

 

[Pctx]

Whoa hold on now. We can't have the country going to war with itself.

I live in a republican-filled neighborhood(including two room-mates). I wouldn't survive the run to my car.

you should start preparing just in case.

 

[tokkun]

Um, they usually side with Republicans, mainly because of all the glorious tax breaks they give them.

Yeah, but not in this case. That is one of the interesting stories out of all of this, who the Republicans are trying to walk the balance beam between appeasing the Tea Party by not agreeing to a compromise deal and appeasing businesses by not dragging out the process.

Obviously it is the former that appear to be carrying the day, though I don't think that's by Boehner's choice. I think that he would rather have struck a deal with Obama last week, but he doesn't have enough control over his caucus to do so.

 

[markatisu]

Obviously it is the former that appear to be carrying the day, though I don't think that's by Boehner's choice. I think that he would rather have struck a deal with Obama last week, but he doesn't have enough control over his caucus to do so.

And that right there is the problem with the Republican Party in 2011

 

[GG-Duo]

It sounds like Boehner doesn't even have enough votes for his current plan.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

I often wonder why do religious people get swayed by some religious rhetoric of the Republican party, yet they don´t sway by the actions of the Democrats, which tend to be following Jesus´teaching, than the republicans (medicare, medicaid, and caring for the helpless and the poor). It´s just baffling that the Democrats cannot communicate these kind of messages towards religious people.

I will leave these 2 images for you guys to look

Denmark. Hell yeah.

 

[onadesertedisland]

I often wonder why do religious people get swayed by some religious rhetoric of the Republican party, yet they don´t sway by the actions of the Democrats, which tend to be following Jesus´teaching, than the republicans (medicare, medicaid, and caring for the helpless and the poor). It´s just baffling that the Democrats cannot communicate these kind of messages towards religious people.

Denmark. Hell yeah.

I think it has to do with believing that one day they too will be rich. Perhaps they side with the rich so that if they ever do get rich policy will be on their side.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I think it has to do with believing that one day they too will be rich. Perhaps they side with the rich so that if they ever do get rich policy will be on their side.

Yet the policies in place are there so that they stay poor.

 

[Walshicus]

And that right there is the problem with the Republican Party in 2011

The problem is it's two political parties stuck together. The best thing for American politics is for the Tea Party to actually separate from the Republican Party.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I am hoping my rent will be paid next month while these fools prance around like this

 

[Kai Dracon]

I think it has to do with believing that one day they too will be rich. Perhaps they side with the rich so that if they ever do get rich policy will be on their side.

Neocon pundits and the extreme religious right, sell self-righteous piety. Not actual Christlike humility. Those evil "socialists" suggest just maybe, it hurts your fellow man if an elite minority sit on a mountain of gold. That is an unappealing message for people who have been conditioned to think their perception of "American Plenty" is a literal reward from God for being born in the right country.

 

[onadesertedisland]

Neocon pundits and the extreme religious right, sell self-righteous piety. Not actual Christlike humility. Those evil "socialists" suggest just maybe, it hurts your fellow man if an elite minority sit on a mountain of gold. That is an unappealing message for people who have been conditioned to think their perception of "American Plenty" is a literal reward from God for being born in the right country.

I agree that the protestant work ethic plays a part. I hear some tremendously poor people in my family tell me why these billionaires should not share because they worked hard to get their money. Meanwhile they labor away at shit jobs for shit money believing they can pull themselves up and work their way to the big bucks.

 

[Henchmen21]

The problem is it's two political parties stuck together. The best thing for American politics is for the Tea Party to actually separate from the Republican Party.

No the best thing is for the Tea Party to be rounded up and arrested as what they're doing is practically treasonous at this point (atleast IMO)

 

[onadesertedisland]

No the best thing is for the Tea Party to be rounded up and arrested as what they're doing is practically treasonous at this point (atleast IMO)

Perhaps we can "paint a target" on the tea party representatives that need to be challenged in the next election...

just kidding, wouldn't want to give anyone the wrong impression.

 

[Raistlin]

Um, they usually side with Republicans, mainly because of all the glorious tax breaks they give them.

But tanking the economy isn't in their interest.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

But tanking the economy isn't in their interest.

Insane bullshit coming your way:

What if it was? Maybe America goes into default and a few mega-corps get together to pick up the tab.

Oh wait that only worked in Robocop.
Also it was just Detroit.

But yeah that's why it's insane bullshit.

 

[Puddles]

I often wonder why do religious people get swayed by some religious rhetoric of the Republican party, yet they don´t sway by the actions of the Democrats, which tend to be following Jesus´teaching, than the republicans (medicare, medicaid, and caring for the helpless and the poor). It´s just baffling that the Democrats cannot communicate these kind of messages towards religious people.

Denmark. Hell yeah.

I've had this conversation with my father and his side of the family on several occasions. They're all very much Christians, but staunch political conservatives.

For them, the issues of gay marriage and abortion seem to mean a lot more than "it is harder for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven," "give all you have to the poor and follow me," or other things that Jesus actually said.

They firmly believe that it simply isn't the government's place to handle healthcare or to help the poor with their basic needs. They tend to fall back on the argument that "private charities can take care of those people."

They see the rich as "job creators" who drive the world's entire economic engine and are the source of all ingenuity and advancement. Wanting to raise their taxes comes from sinful covetousness and "class-envy."

The fact that lots of people go bankrupt due to medical bills doesn't seem to register with them. It should register with my father, since many years ago when I was about 19 I got in a bike accident at a time when he didn't have insurance, and he had to pay about $4000 out of pocket to cover a major dental surgery for me. He has first-hand experience with the failures of an insurance-based system, and yet it still doesn't register.

When I point out that countries with single-payer spend less per capita than we do on healthcare and spend much less on healthcare as a percentage of GDP, they fall back on "rationing" and "wait lists."

When I talk about all the Canadians, British and French people I've met who consider our healthcare system a joke and laugh when I ask if they'd ever want to trade systems with us, they fall back on the example of my uncle who practiced medicine in Canada for a few years and experienced wait lists a few times.

The fact that >90% of small business owners wouldn't be affected by letting the Bush tax cuts expire for the top bracket doesn't register. I'll make that argument, and then they'll trot out "Obama wants to raise taxes on small businesses!" not a day later.


Lots of cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. They send me lots of op-eds from The Wall Street Journal and The National Review. They consider almost any news source that isn't one of those part of the biased liberal media. International news sources like The Guardian don't seem to register with them, since what do those British know about American politics?

It's frustrating. I agree that Christians should be liberal on healthcare policy, but somehow that's not the case.

 

[Volimar]

Insane bullshit coming your way:

What if it was? Maybe America goes into default and a few mega-corps get together to pick up the tab.

Oh wait that only worked in Robocop.
Also it was just Detroit.

But yeah that's why it's insane bullshit.

Not even that. It's all short term thinking. With repubs in their pockets, they make glorious profits. CEOs get bonuses. When everything goes to shit, they still get their golden parachute. They just don't care.

 

[Walshicus]

I've had this conversation with my father and his side of the family on several occasions. They're all very much Christians, but staunch political conservatives.

For them, the issues of gay marriage and abortion seem to mean a lot more than "it is harder for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven," "give all you have to the poor and follow me," or other things that Jesus actually said.

They firmly believe that it simply isn't the government's place to handle healthcare or to help the poor with their basic needs. They tend to fall back on the argument that "private charities can take care of those people."

They see the rich as "job creators" who drive the world's entire economic engine and are the source of all ingenuity and advancement. Wanting to raise their taxes comes from sinful covetousness and "class-envy."

The fact that lots of people go bankrupt due to medical bills doesn't seem to register with them. It should register with my father, since many years ago when I was about 19 I got in a bike accident at a time when he didn't have insurance, and he had to pay about $4000 out of pocket to cover a major dental surgery for me. He has first-hand experience with the failures of an insurance-based system, and yet it still doesn't register.

When I point out that countries with single-payer spend less per capita than we do on healthcare and spend much less on healthcare as a percentage of GDP, they fall back on "rationing" and "wait lists."

When I talk about all the Canadians, British and French people I've met who consider our healthcare system a joke and laugh when I ask if they'd ever want to trade systems with us, they fall back on the example of my uncle who practiced medicine in Canada for a few years and experienced wait lists a few times.

The fact that >90% of small business owners wouldn't be affected by letting the Bush tax cuts expire for the top bracket doesn't register. I'll make that argument, and then they'll trot out "Obama wants to raise taxes on small businesses!" not a day later.


Lots of cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. They send me lots of op-eds from The Wall Street Journal and The National Review. They consider almost any news source that isn't one of those part of the biased liberal media. International news sources like The Guardian don't seem to register with them, since what do those British know about American politics?

It's frustrating. I agree that Christians should be liberal on healthcare policy, but somehow that's not the case.

Again - the problem here is that there isn't a "Christian Democrat" equivalent in the US. You have two parties trying to cover four or five political niches.

 

[Raistlin]

Not even that. It's all short term thinking. With repubs in their pockets, they make glorious profits. CEOs get bonuses. When everything goes to shit, they still get their golden parachute. They just don't care.

A lot of execs have nice portions of their money tied to stocks though

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Not even that. It's all short term thinking. With repubs in their pockets, they make glorious profits. CEOs get bonuses. When everything goes to shit, they still get their golden parachute. They just don't care.

"I'll be gone, you'll be gone"

 

[Puddles]

Here are some prime quotes from our beloved Rapture Ready political forum that sum up much of the conservative view on healthcare:

We are to take care of the less fortunate, the widows and orphans, the sick, the down and out. However, this should come from His church and His people. Not the government. If this was being done correctly in this country and everyone was following His mandates and doing what is right, that is exactly what you would see. The true help that is needed would come from His church.

God also gives alot of wisdom and instruction about those who will not work. What happens when the govt gives and it is not earned and they have the capability of earning (working) for their food. And what HE says happens is exactly what we see happening in this country, an entitlement mentality, freedoms lost and too much power given to a government. It has a snowball effect too.

Healthcare is not a right. A "right" even under our own constitution is a God given "right" or gift. The closest thing we have to a "right" is the gift of freedom (to make choices) and liberty that is given by God to His creation. Its His creation that has slowly but effectively distorted that gift and morphed it into what it never really was. But this is what happens when you take the foundation of God's Word which the Constituation and Bill of Rights were pretty much built on and pull it out from under everything (ie remove it). You get a country full of people looking to the govt to take care of them instead of their own Creator who has promised to do that exact same thing.

To the social "liberal" among us, where does Jesus, or Scripture in general tell us to provide healthcare, and welfare programs on a government level?

From a political point of view, it is a system rife with mismanagement, delivering substandard care at costs that are killing the country. Sadly with obamacare, things are about to get worse.

As a Christian, government provided healthcare gives enormous control over people, and that power is exploited every day in DC. Those needing help from government programs are owned by that same government and they know that. Therefor as a Conservative Christian I strongly resist that level of government power over people.

In short, government will never be able to take care of us, it is too self interested and actually makes matters worse. Health insurance companies are already paying insanely high rates for care, because of government short changing the system. That is of course all by design, ask a doctor who takes medicare patients and ask if they could keep the door open based on medicare compensation. Obamacare is designed to ultimately make it impossible for private companies to complete, we are moving towards a system where everyone will eventually be moved to what is medicare by some other name.

Government provided healthcare may sound good in theory until we look at what it means in real terms, just ask people who need VA healthcare for example. Had my father had private care he would not have died at 63 when the VA missed tell tale signs he was about to have a cardiac episode. (I will spare all of you those details) The doctors there cared but had their hands tied by bureaucracy and dad died as a result.

When a guy mentions that he supports universal healthcare because he has a pre-existing condition and has been denied private insurance, he gets this response:

I understand your position completely. However, God will provide what you need. Are you looking to the govt to provide or to your God who is totally capable of providing. He may provide the $$ you need to get them. He may provide the govt healthcare you need to get your meds. He may provide by keeping you in a healthy state without some meds. Or (and this will sound completely cold but not meant to be) He may allow you to get sick or sicker and go through some things that will increase your faith, bless yourself and others and bring Him glory. He knows exactly what He is doing and He knows how to provide for our needs. Pray for how to vote on issues according to His will, not your own, and pray for guidance on what issues to support. But in the end, give Him your complete trust and dont worry about man made labels. If your salvation is good, the rest is a matter of growing in faith, serving Him and others, and "that" can costs any of us ALOT.

 

[Cousteau]

Ceiling(heavy breathing)
Debt: "Ceiling"
Ceiling: "Yes Debt"
Debt: "RIIIIZE"

 

[Flo_Evans]

What do people expect?

We have elected morons who literally hate the government to run our government. They are convinced voices in their head are sending them on a crusade to burn washington down.

They are holding the entire country hostage at the behest of the true ruling elite and yet bible thumpers driving rusted out pickups, barely able to pay the 2nd or 3rd mortgage on the family farm are cheering them on.

Insanity!

 

[99hertz]

I guess this is the correct place to post this. So... Khan Academy just put up some videos explaining the Debt Ceiling...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIE0yxfEYP4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MgWVBp_Oso

 

[Cmagus]

I don't understand how anyone can side with the Republicans.It's obvious what their intentions and where their alliances lies and sadly it isn't with the people.I mean I cannot understand what more the Repubicans have to do before people get the picture.

 

[SoulPlaya]

I often wonder why do religious people get swayed by some religious rhetoric of the Republican party, yet they don´t sway by the actions of the Democrats, which tend to be following Jesus´teaching, than the republicans (medicare, medicaid, and caring for the helpless and the poor). It´s just baffling that the Democrats cannot communicate these kind of messages towards religious people.

The prosperity gospel has twisted the message of the NT.

 

[onadesertedisland]

The prosperity gospel has twisted the message of the NT.

They really believe that their position in life is a representation of their standing with god. They also believe that if the poor would "work harder" then god would reward them. So, perhaps the rich should be idolized, because, god has rewarded them and is pleased with them.

 

[NihonTiger90]

This freshman GOP rep (didn't catch his name) on CNN is basically saying it's Obama's fault if nothing passes and the House has already done its job.

EDIT: Oh and he said Obama's new budget added $10 trillion in debt. Anchor tried to call him out on it.

 

[onadesertedisland]

well it looks like even boner is getting tea bagged. ha! fucking retards for voting these bigoted idiots into office.

 

[Piecake]

They really believe that their position in life is a representation of their standing with god. They also believe that if the poor would "work harder" then god would reward them. So, perhaps the rich should be idolized, because, god has rewarded them and is pleased with them.

That is oh so wrong

 

[electricpirate]

I think it's time for the 1 trillion dollar platinum coin solution.

 

[Vaporak]

I often wonder why do religious people get swayed by some religious rhetoric of the Republican party, yet they don´t sway by the actions of the Democrats, which tend to be following Jesus´teaching, than the republicans (medicare, medicaid, and caring for the helpless and the poor). It´s just baffling that the Democrats cannot communicate these kind of messages towards religious people.

Just to be clear "religious people" shouldn't be thought of as a singular entity here. It's Protestants who tend to vote republican; Catholics have traditionally tended to vote democrat.

 

[Kitschkraft]

I'm in the same boat. I can't register for fall classes until I get my loans. This is going to disrupt all of that.

And yes. Yes you are.

Fucking christ, these people better get this shit through.

I'm going to go insane if this messes up my situation with school. It's already driving my insane just thinking about it.

 

[ronito]

See what happens when you vote in people who hate government and don't believe in it? It's like hiring an athiest pastor. No company in the world would hire someone that when asked "Why do you want to work here?" replied "Because your company sucks I hate your company."

 

[tekumseh]

Possible impeachment? WTF?

Never gonna happen, because the vote takes place in the Senate and requires a two thirds majority...

 

[Measley]

See what happens when you vote in people who hate government and don't believe in it? It's like hiring an athiest pastor. No company in the world would hire someone that when asked "Why do you want to work here?" replied "Because your company sucks I hate your company."

Yeah, I never understood why people would vote for people who hate the job they're being elected to. The representatives job is to represent the people in government. Not completely destroy the government so private business can turn everyone into wage slaves.