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Declawing cats

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Opiate

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I thought I'd start a new thread for this rather than clog up other relatively unrelated topics.

I've now seen this discussed multiple times on GAF, and there seems to be a very vocal contingent of people who are very passionate about not declawing cats. I was surprised by this, because it's recommended by my veterinarian (and many other vets, apparently, after doing some research, but not all of them) here in the US.

I suspect people object primarily because it removes their defenses, which strikes me as not a problem because many (most?) people keep their cats indoors at all times -- and keeping your cat indoors is often recommended by a wide variety of animal rights organizations, from extreme cases like PETA to much more mainstream organizations like the Humane Society -- and it is objectively true that indoor cats live much longer, healthier lives.
 Lastly, this also reduces harm to the environment, as cats kill billions of birds a year, and are in fact the single largest cause of bird/rodent death in America.

So now this becomes a discussion of whether it's okay to declaw a cat simply to save your home. I can understand why many people would object to this; however, I would also point out that this may affect the cost of ownership, and many people who want to take care of cats simply could not afford to do so if they could not declaw them (please note I can not find any studies to confirm or deny this).

To make it clear, I am not saying that everyone should declaw all cats; I just think it's often the least-bad option of those available in many cases. I definitely do not think outdoor cats should be declawed, but I also don't think letting your cat outdoors is a very good idea, and 2/3rd of US cats are already indoor cats to begin with.

Any thoughts or criticisms? I admit I've done about an hour of research total on the pros/cons of this approach, so I'm certainly open to being wrong.
 
Opiate said:
That isn't a compelling argument. Why is that so?
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How would you like it if we cut off your fingers to the second knuckle?

Or is it the first knuckle. I don't know. But I hear it's really cruel and that if your cat ever gets out with no claws it's not a good situation.
 
I've had a couple cats declawed in my life, of all the cats i've owned. The vet we went to declawed them with lasers and they didn't even notice the next day. They were perfectly happy, healthy, loving cats.
 
They use their claws to balance and protect themselves from falling. If you care about your furniture over your pet than =/. You can discipline cats not to screw with furniture. Try this before mutilating their paws.
 
I thought the argument was that it's a cruel procedure, I remember someone relating it to us having our fingers at the first knuckle removed.
 
I did it to my cat, mostly to save the furniture because my wife (then girlfriend) insisted when we moved in together. I really, really regret it.

It hasn't had any impact on my cat's life and well-being, as far as I can tell. Her behavior didn't change. She's a 100% indoor cat. She's a sweetheart.

But I feel terrible that I couldn't manage with training and nail clipping alone. Instead I elected to mutilate her feet. Lots of people have figured out how to protect their possessions without cutting off parts of their cats' bodies, and unfortunately I could not.
 
Declawing your cat can give it arthritis in its hips later in life due to the unintentional stress on them caused by declawing. Something to do with the way they shift weight afterward or something.

Happened to my cat (declawed when I got him at the age of 10, don't judge) and it killed me to know the reason why.
 
The biggest thing i've seen with declawed cats is them having trouble using the litter box after having it done. I've seen it happen in three different cats where it just hurts them for the first couple weeks and then they never go back to use it because they associate that pain with the box. I'm sure having it done with laser would cut down on that, but it still seems unnecessary to do when they have easy things to curb scratching at home.
 
Speaking as someone with clawed up furniture.. It just "feels" wrong. I don't even want to bring logic into it, just because. I like my cats claws too. They honestly feel good sometimes, my cat claws and bites my feet and it feels really good. Cats have claws. I mean, there's not much more to it. Cats come with claws.
 
Does declawing change the behavior of the cat? If it changes it profoundly there could be an argument against it but I don't see a problem in a world where we neuter our pets.
 
Ace Harding said:
I did it to my cat, mostly to save the furniture because my wife (then girlfriend) insisted when we moved in together. I really, really regret it.

It hasn't had any impact on my cat's life and well-being, as far as I can tell. Her behavior didn't change. She's a 100% indoor cat. She's a sweetheart.

But I feel terrible that I couldn't manage with training and nail clipping alone. Instead I elected to mutilate her feet. Lots of people have figured out how to protect their possessions without cutting off parts of their cats' bodies, and unfortunately I could not.
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I can see this argument, but I wouldn't personally feel bad about this.

It is also possible to not neuter your cat and find ways to prevent them from ever having kittens, but in practice this is extremely challenging and I don't feel it's realistic to expect all owners to have this level of detailed care or else they're considered "bad."

If we did accuse all people of being "bad" pet owners because they couldn't watch their cats closely enough to keep them from tearing up furniture/having sex/whatever, then we would very quickly have far less cat owners out there. And again, this gets back to my least-bad explanation; if declawing is bad, then surely increasing the homeless-pet population is frequently even worse.
 
Opiate said:
How would you like it if we cut off your testicles?
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You wanted a compelling argument and you got one. If your mind is made up on the issue, soliciting opinions from random strangers on the internet isn't going to change your mind.

And for what it's worth, I'm sterile, so my balls are worthless to me anyway. So lop them off, but don't mutilate your cat.
 
Declawing is the lazy option, which can be traumatic to the cat in short-term and dangerous in a scenario, in which the cat somehow runs away to the outside world.

Similarly, if someone cut my penis off right now I would be devastated and depressed for quite some time. Would I live indoors 24/7 in a cock-fest apartment though it would gradually get better. Now, a fire happens and I have to run outside and all I see are these hot women in their panties and all. I wouldn't survive.

I got a bit off-track there, but anyway: I think everyone should rather trim their cats' claws every two weeks or so to benefit both the cat and your living room furniture.

EDIT: And what Devo said
 
I've never seen the position you have raised. Most are against it because it is mutilation and lots of cats go through post op problems like hemorraghing and pain.
 
Yeah, it's a cruel procedure. I just can't see the justification in causing that kind of pain and mutilation just to keep your furniture and carpets looking good. Living creatures >>>> inanimate objects every time.
 
Arment said:
Declawing your cat can give it arthritis in its hips later in life due to the unintentional stress on them caused by declawing. Something to do with the way they shift weight afterward or something.

Happened to my cat (declawed when I got him at the age of 10, don't judge) and it killed me to know the reason why.
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They can't pick themselves up anymore by their paws so they have to jump higher. I see it with my mom's cat that she feels awful for declawing. She's old, can't jump as well and she can't pull herself up on the couch. That's the price of declawing the cat, less quality of life.
 
Opiate said:
If we did accuse all people of being "bad" pet owners because they couldn't watch their cats closely enough to keep them from tearing up furniture/having sex/whatever, then we would very quickly have far less cat owners out there. And again, this gets back to my least-bad explanation; if declawing is bad, then surely increasing the homeless-pet population is frequently even worse.
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True enough.

I can't judge someone for giving a cat a loving home, even if it is on their kind of cruel terms.

I'm sure many cats would love a pampered life and would gladly give up some reproductive systems and some digits for it. But we don't know for sure, and that's where this all comes into play I guess.
 
Ferny said:
The biggest thing i've seen with declawed cats is them having trouble using the litter box after having it done. I've seen it happen in three different cats where it just hurts them for the first couple weeks and then they never go back to use it because they associate that pain with the box. I'm sure having it done with laser would cut down on that, but it still seems unnecessary to do when they have easy things to curb scratching at home.
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The vet we used told us all about that, they gave us pain pills for the two of them. They honestly never had any problems and were happy and healthy. The vet actually recommended using a laser because it was easier for them to heal and they were able to remove less, in addition to the recovery time being much less.
 
One perspective I rarely see in threads like these is the shelter's perspective. I used to work in a really high volume animal shelter for about three years. Lots of potential adopters' landlords required that their cats be declawed. Are the landlords wrong? Yes. But would I rather see a cat get adopted and declawed rather than euthanized for space? Hell yes.
 
It's likened to cutting off fingers. WIthout claws I don't think they can grip anything. Also potential issues with digging up the litter box and as someone has mentioned before increased risk for arthritis.

I think the equivalent for dogs would be slicing all the toes off on their paws. I've never heard of anyone having trouble with a dog scratching furniture though so I guess there's a reason why it's never mentioned.

I personally wouldn't do it to a cat if I owned one.
 
Opiate said:
I can see this argument, but I wouldn't personally feel bad about this.

It is also possible to not neuter your cat and find ways to prevent them from ever having kittens, but in practice this is extremely challenging and I don't feel it's realistic to expect all owners to have this level of detailed care or else they're considered "bad."

If we did accuse all people of being "bad" pet owners because they couldn't watch their cats closely enough to keep them from tearing up furniture/having sex/whatever, then we would very quickly have far less cat owners out there. And again, this gets back to my least-bad explanation; if declawing is bad, then surely increasing the homeless-pet population is frequently even worse.
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It the cat gets lost - loss of defenses.
When the cat is old - it can't climb.
 
silkysmooth said:
You wanted a compelling argument and you got one. If your mind is made up on the issue, soliciting opinions from random strangers on the internet isn't going to change your mind.
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I'm saying that isn't a compelling argument. Someone else has already responded in the contrary and I've said I find the argument fairly compelling.

I am not immune to new arguments and especially not immune to new data. If you can, for example, show me that I'm wrong and that indoor cats do not live longer than outdoor cats, I would find that argument extremely compelling.

The problem is not that I am immune to any type of argumentation, the problem is that your argument is bad.
 
I live out in the country where foxes and wolves and wild dogs are a real threat to my cat so I let her keep her claws just so she has some line of defense if she ever escapes the house. (Though I think that's definitely a losing fight for the cat.. I think she's only safe if she's faster in that situation..) I keep her indoors always except when she manages to find some way out. She's never damaged anything in the home with her claws, either. She's got clawing boards and other toys that she fucks up and she doesn't mess with the furniture or carpeting or anything. So as far as I'm concerned I will not let anyone remove her claws. My vet wants me to get her declawed, since I also have a dog and he says it's not the best idea to let a cat live with the dog while she has her claws. They live peacefully together though and I can't see the cat doing something violent unless the dog tries to attack first.

Hopefully I don't end up regretting my decision one day. Maybe I should just have her declawed to remove the possibility, no matter how small, but I just don't feel like it's right
 
Opiate said:
I can see this argument, but I wouldn't personally feel bad about this.

It is also possible to not neuter your cat and find ways to prevent them from ever having kittens, but in practice this is extremely challenging and I don't feel it's realistic to expect all owners to have this level of detailed care or else they're considered "bad."

If we did accuse all people of being "bad" pet owners because they couldn't watch their cats closely enough to keep them from tearing up furniture/having sex/whatever, then we would very quickly have far less cat owners out there. And again, this gets back to my least-bad explanation; if declawing is bad, then surely increasing the homeless-pet population is frequently even worse.
Click to expand...

Honestly cats reproducing and cats damaging furniture or whatever seem to have a pretty distinct moral character, I don't think this is a good comparison.
 
it's most like cutting off a human's finger at the third knuckle. cats really want to use the tips of their fingers. it's kinda fucked up.

luckily i'm never going to own a pet because i'm not a psychopath interested in entertaining these ideas.
 
I also don't know the real science on this. Like my cat had zero issues apparent after being declawed. Never stopped using the litter box. Didn't get more aggressive (in fact I think she got nicer). Never appeared to be in pain. But I do hear that cats can have problems with that stuff - aggression, litter box issues, pain/difficulty walking. I just wonder how frequent that is, how large that risk is.
 
I don't think that's fair to the cat its like clipping a birds wings

Its great for us but for an animal to lose an ability they are so accustomed to makes me feel bad

Its nice for a cat to know it has a set of claws which was intended by nature

Its like remove that mans right testical one is sufficient but its still something that man will wanna keep unless he's willing to trade
 
Devolution said:
They can't pick themselves up anymore by their paws so they have to jump higher. I see it with my mom's cat that she feels awful for declawing. She's old, can't jump as well and she can't pull herself up on the couch. That's the price of declawing the cat, less quality of life.
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Yeah, I had to actually pick him up and put him on his favorite spots often when he got older. Least I could do for the old guy. Didn't help he was losing muscle mass due to a thyroid problem (unbeknownst to me) either. Poor dude.
 
Getting your tubes tied or a vasectomy so that you won't reproduce is one thing. Cutting off your fingers so that you won't ruin the furniture? That's just plain dumb, in my opinion.
 
I think the only bad side is that on certain types of flooring they will have some trouble balancing themselves but only for a little while until they get used to it. At least that's what I remember from googling about it like 3 years ago when I was bored and curious.

I guess it irks people because it's so unnatural.
 
If you're on the fence about it, you can just declaw the front ones and keep the back ones. That's what I did so people can play with her and not have to worry about her clawing at them, but at the same time she can scratch herself if she has an itch.

My family thought she might be a different cat after the surgery, but she turned out fine and is still the loving cat we knew. :3
 
Harry Potter said:
Declawing procedure. If you're still fine with declawing a cat after watching this, eat a dick
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I refuse to watch it. I know it will just sicken me and piss me off.

Cats I had as a kid were declawed, but that is before I knew what it entailed. My current cats are fully clawed, but well behaved because they know not to mess with things.
blame space said:
i mean, or you could just train them to not ruin your shit. and not take away a vital part of their being.
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Damn right!
 
LOLDSFAN said:
If you're on the fence about it, you can just declaw the front ones and keep the back ones. That's what I did so people can play with her and not have to worry about her clawing at them, but at the same time she can scratch herself if she has an itch.

My family thought she might be a different cat after the surgery, but she turned out fine and is still the loving cat we knew. :3
Click to expand...

I didn't even know they declawed the back. Mine kept his back claws.
 
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