Devolution
Member
The old one I talked about had her backs. Still doesn't help her much.
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Declawing cats
- Thread starter Opiate
- Start date
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The old one I talked about had her backs. Still doesn't help her much.
blame space
Banned
i don't know guys, maybe we all have that bacteria that makes us want to be cat food, but taking away the tips of their fingers seems much more fucked up than taking away their ability to procreate.
this thread is going to be huge.
this thread is going to be huge.
Never again for any future cats of mine. Completely awful.
When he was younger and nimbler he used them to climb a bit, but I bet he wished he had those front ones too.
Damaging furniture is certainly a lesser expense, but I don't think it's an unreasonable one, either.
People arne't made of money and there are definitely people out there who would like to take care of cats but couldn't realistically afford to if that cat is tearing stuff up. For example, my parents considered putting my cat down when I was younger because he was peeing on everything and causing significant damage to their home (they ultimately decided not to).
Would they have been bad cat owners if they had put him down? If so, how much money does a "good" cat owner have to be willing to spend on their cat? Many of my parents carpets are worth tens of thousands of dollars (authentic Persian rugs). If my cat was costing my parents hundreds of thousands, would they have been been "Bad" owners then? What's the limit? Should everyone be expected to spend unlimited amounts of money on owning a cat? What about poor families who can afford to keep a low-cost pet but can't afford one which can/will destroy some of their furniture -- should they not be allowed pets?
These are serious questions, by the way, and not rhetorical. I'm not sure where to draw the line here. I'll just reiterate that we already have a cat population problem and whatever you think of people's treatment of their cats, in most cases further cat homelessness is almost certainly worse.
Twilight Gap
Member
On the one hand, you're permanently taking away the animal's right to defend itself, efficiently use the litter box, climb trees, etc. and it's going to bother them as they get older. The procedure isn't exactly roses and paradise either. On the other hand, I can see it as an "alternative" to getting rid of the pet if you have small children around or something. I also have to admit that it's nice to play with a cat and not fear my arm looking like a scratching post afterwards.
But you can train them not to rip furniture (which is replaceable and often repairable), so that's a poor excuse for permanently declawing a cat. My cat pukes on the carpet almost every week no matter what we feed her, but you won't see us cutting its stomach out. That's part of the territory with owning a pet, and you can't say kids wont do far worse damage. If you're worried about belongings being damaged, you probably shouldn't own a cat, or any pet that will roam around the house. No material thing is worth permanent damage to an animal's body.
This is completely different from chopping your willy off btw.
But you can train them not to rip furniture (which is replaceable and often repairable), so that's a poor excuse for permanently declawing a cat. My cat pukes on the carpet almost every week no matter what we feed her, but you won't see us cutting its stomach out. That's part of the territory with owning a pet, and you can't say kids wont do far worse damage. If you're worried about belongings being damaged, you probably shouldn't own a cat, or any pet that will roam around the house. No material thing is worth permanent damage to an animal's body.
This is completely different from chopping your willy off btw.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
So Opiate are you actually considering a cat-friend are is this just an exercise?
If you want a cat, and the choice is no cat or a declawed cat. Just get a cat that's already declawed.
If you want a cat, and the choice is no cat or a declawed cat. Just get a cat that's already declawed.
Devolution
Member
Or just teach them it's wrong and keep a water bottle on hand for when they're being naughty.
Yes they are. Cats live longer, healthier lives when kept permanently indoors. Many people cannot afford to keep cats indoors without declawing them. In those cases, the alternative to declawing is another cat without an owner.
I just don't see why it's necessary. You can train a cat not to scratch your furniture. If you're worried about furniture etc then don't get a cat. I've had a cat that was declawed (not my choice) but that didn't stop him from barfing on the carpet when he was sick. Him being declawed didn't help my carpet. Plus, I always thought it was sad when he used to try to sharpen his non existent claws.
Declawing is mutilation. You're basically cutting off their knuckle. And yes, you can argue that getting ypud cat spayed/neutered is also mutilation. But that's to help control the pet population (and dogs get this done too). It feels like an entirely different issue to me.
Declawing is mutilation. You're basically cutting off their knuckle. And yes, you can argue that getting ypud cat spayed/neutered is also mutilation. But that's to help control the pet population (and dogs get this done too). It feels like an entirely different issue to me.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I feel like the decision is usually made for saving the couch or something from being scratched up things that can be replaced. I just don't think that justifies cutting off what amounts to part of their fingers. Things like spaying or neutering them are for health reasons.
My family declawed a cat but I think my mother felt bad about it. The cat we have now is indoors but has claws. I just yell at him if it tries anything. He knows who's boss
My family declawed a cat but I think my mother felt bad about it. The cat we have now is indoors but has claws. I just yell at him if it tries anything. He knows who's boss
oneils
Member
Yeah I don't get the point of this thread. Opiate are you trying to validate a decision you have already made or what?
Don't have any stats, but the vast majority of cat owners I know teach their cat to use a scratching post rather than declaw them. Your argument or position is just plain weird.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I'm fine with it so long as the cat is an indoor cat.
Weapxn
Mikkelsexual
Is clipping a bird's wings painful? I understand the "loss of ability" argument, but other than that...I don't think it's a fair comparison, really.
Knowing what the procedure of declawing is, I could never bring myself to get it done to one. However, I would only ever consider owning a cat if it was declawed...in which case I would adopt.
blame space
Banned
yeah opiate what's the real deal with this thread huh?
No. I just like investigation. "Why discuss things?" seems like an odd question to me. I found people passionately disagreed with my position, so I asked why that was the case.
Talking to people who agree me with is often boring.
Well where I live, Nova Scotia Canada, most vets won't declaw. Saying that the cat before my current one was declawed in the front, I preferred it because I could play with her without worrying about getting torn to pieces. She wasn't an outdoor cat but she would get out from time to time and she could hunt just fine, lots of mice heads on the doorstep, as well as a couple birds and a bunny. My current cat isn't declawed, but I play with her just as much it can hurt a little more sometimes but we try to cut her claws ourselves consistently so that it doesn't get to bad.
So whether my next cat will get declawed will probably depend on the vets in the area. It didn't seem to have any real effect on my first cat so if I can I probably would.
EDIT: Then again, the only real difference is how scratched I get, so I don't know.
So whether my next cat will get declawed will probably depend on the vets in the area. It didn't seem to have any real effect on my first cat so if I can I probably would.
EDIT: Then again, the only real difference is how scratched I get, so I don't know.
Kyleripman
Member
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Just slip on little claw covers and they last for months at a time (even more depending on your cat's activity levels). There's no reason to declaw them - it does hurt them.
Velcro Fly
Member
If you don't have the empathy for another living thing to consider losing a finger up to a certain point as a "con" then I don't know what to tell you.
Harry Potter
Banned
Exactly, because you took the time to train them. Cats are very smart, it's not that hard to give them scratching posts and what not for their scratching urges. People want pets, but they don't want to put any time into caring for them. Always looking for the easy out, even if that means mutilating the cat.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
I wasn't asking "why discuss" I just wanted to know the context of your question.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Fuck that shit, they literally cut off each toe.
Even more cruel than I expected. And i'm not even some 'oh noes the poor animals' peta kind of guy.
I think this is a sticking point for me. I understand you don't mean harm, but I want to make sure we are aware that realistically we already have a cat homelessness problem in most of the first world, and denying cats to people because they plan to declaw them only exacerbates that problem.
However, I do agree with several people in this thread that there appear to be downsides -- even for indoor only cats, such as possible arthritis -- and it may not be appropriate for all situations, especially if your cat goes outdoors.
blame space
Banned
this needs to be, like, a banner or something.
I'd rather a cat be declawed and have a good home so I kind of agree.
Feral and clawed < domesticated and declawed for sure.
If you declaw a cat and it's because you feared for your furniture and not because it was a requirement for your permanent residence, that's some bullshit though. I mean, my parents did it when I was a kid but they weren't aware of how the procedure went at all. Google wasn't exactly around then.
I'm still perfectly fine with it. I am also fine with eating most meats including cats.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
My wife still trims their claws every couple of weeks. But our girls know when they are misbehaving and do not destroy anything. About the extent of damage out cats cause is when they are pissed and want to be fed, so they knock things off the counter.
Or, if Stitch (the bitchy cat we have. God bless her) wants attention or to lay on the bed, she jumps on the nightstand on my side of the bed and knocks things on the floor, and then paws my face until I wake up so she can sleep in my spot.
Furry little bastard. But that attitude is what I love about her.
oneils
Member
It seems strange to me then that your research to date does not even begin to touch on the actual real reasons why people object to declawing. So your OP seemed disingenuous to me. You seem like a smart guy, so I wonder why you missed all of the actual cons.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
There are many things you can do before declawing though. Get a scratching post, protect the furniture, train the cat.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
I don't know anything about dogs and am not emotionally attached to them because they're ugly and have bad breath. Is there anything similar to "declawing"" for dogs? Don't people take the vocal chords out of barky barkin' dogs?
Zoe
Member
- Declawing can lead to litter box issues because the litter will irritate the sensitive areas.
- Declawing will make the cat act out aggression in alternate ways. If they're only front-declawed, they'll start using their hind legs to attack. If they're fully declawed, they'll start biting.
- Declawing will make the cat act out aggression in alternate ways. If they're only front-declawed, they'll start using their hind legs to attack. If they're fully declawed, they'll start biting.
I declawed my cat when he was young 13 years ago. I wish I hadn't. He was about six months old and destroying my apartment. I didn't realize exactly what the procedure entailed. If I had I would have tried alternatives.
I can definitely confirm the second point. On top of that, he's only a front declaw and he's still more apt to bite than any other cat I've owned or fostered... which is probably close to a dozen.
I can definitely confirm the second point. On top of that, he's only a front declaw and he's still more apt to bite than any other cat I've owned or fostered... which is probably close to a dozen.
I had to sign a contract when I bought my cat last year saying that I wouldn't declaw him because of animal cruelty. I wouldn't have done it anyway, but I thought it was kind of hypocritical that the breeder is against animal cruelty and yet she forced me to get him neutered.
Anyway, I built him a cat tree and taught him to scratch it and nothing else. It wasn't very hard. I also trim his nails every week. The only possible excuse I could believe for declawing is if you had an aggressive cat and you were worried about him scratching your children's eyes or something. Like someone else mentioned, I've heard good things about the softpaw plastic nail caps, so I think everyone should at least try those before resorting to declawing.
Anyway, I built him a cat tree and taught him to scratch it and nothing else. It wasn't very hard. I also trim his nails every week. The only possible excuse I could believe for declawing is if you had an aggressive cat and you were worried about him scratching your children's eyes or something. Like someone else mentioned, I've heard good things about the softpaw plastic nail caps, so I think everyone should at least try those before resorting to declawing.
blame space
Banned
what about a cat you keep as a pet? that's the whole basis for this thread.
against
defense, and climbing etc.
Buy the cat one those scratch posts to distract him/her away from using furniture.
When a cat gets passed its hyperactive phase, then you no longer need to worry about getting scratched while playing, because the cat probably doesn't want to play anyway.
defense, and climbing etc.
Buy the cat one those scratch posts to distract him/her away from using furniture.
When a cat gets passed its hyperactive phase, then you no longer need to worry about getting scratched while playing, because the cat probably doesn't want to play anyway.
It's just lazy really. Wasn't that hard to train cats not to scratch stuff.
It isn't disingenuous. If I'm missing cons, let me know. A few had already been pointed out, like potential arthritis and litter box problems.
By far the most common con I had seen cited before this thread was, "you're removing their primary defense mechanism," to which I replied in my head, "but my cats growing up never needed a defense. They stayed indoors."
I also wondered why -- as a separate point -- it's not considered cruel to let your cats outdoors.
Harry Potter
Banned
Heh, this thread was never going to change your mind. Why even make it
We have two relatively new kittens that we're training to claw only their scratching posts but they lapse occasionally and I might look into some of these for them.
FairXchange
Member
Getting scratched is a right of passage for cat owners! Keep the claws! I do enjoy pissing my cat off when he gets his trimmed, however, he can't deter like when his claws are razor sharp.
People have already changed my mind in several ways. I've already conceded/agreed with several points from several posters.
Here's my response to your point: if you eat pig in any form, then logically you cannot complain about cats being eaten. Your argument at that point would be "but cats are so much cuter," which I do not accept as logical or valid. If you are a vegan, then that is a consistent position, but it obviously isn't a point of view that everyone is going to agree with.
Weapxn
Mikkelsexual
Aren't dog claws typically much duller? I've never really had a problem with a dog scratching me.
I know someone who did this to their poor Jack Russell Terrier. They lived in Texas. The dog barked too much for the mom, so they had the voice box worked on. The surgery didn't work, they dog started barking again, and this second time it did work. They left the dog out back one day, didn't hear it barking to be let in, and the heat killed it. Meh.
Capital_Five
Member
Seems pretty cruel after watching that video. That said, I like my furniture more than cats so I dont think Ill be getting one. If I did I would just go to the shelter and find one with its toes already cut off like people have been suggesting. Best of both worlds.
oneils
Member
The cons are that it is mutilation, and there are many post op complications. If cats are homeless, it is because we have not spayed and neutered them and not because they have claws.
Zoe
Member
To your first point: accidents happen. Cats can be curious and slip out or they can get spooked and run away.
To your second point: in many parts of Europe, they consider it cruel to not let your cat outdoors.
SneakyStephan
Banned
It's just cruel, you don't REALLY need your pinky finger you don't need your fingernails you don't need your small toe, how about we cut off those and pull out those nails.
The next door kid is loud and wasn't raised properly, maybe we can cut off his tongue.
My cat got lost once, for around 4 months, when he was like 5 years old. He was let out on accident. Anyways. We found him by our apartment complex's dumpster all malnourished and what not. Fed him back to normal and all that. But he changed a bit and always wanted outside. We fought it for years until we moved out and into a house. I started letting him out on the lanai (screened in porch) and he absolutely loved it. But he was addicted to actual outside and on occasion I'd take him out front and let him eat grass...no leash or anything. He'd never bolt. Such a chill guy, I miss him.
Declawing is a lazy solution. Buy cardboard scratching posts and cat trees where the cat actually wants to scratch. Easy, cheap and you don't have to surgically remove any of your cat's appendages.
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