This is a completely reasonable alternative to declawing surgery. If you can't be bothered to change the nail caps every 4-6 weeks, then you probably shouldn't have a pet.
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Declawing cats
- Thread starter Opiate
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This is a completely reasonable alternative to declawing surgery. If you can't be bothered to change the nail caps every 4-6 weeks, then you probably shouldn't have a pet.
NinjaBoiX
Member
I would think it's incredibly uncomfortable for the cat.
Imagine if you had to walk around with rubber tip on your fingers and toes. Not pleasant I expect.
SillyEskimo
Member
So does declawing. A cat might lose it's life if it claws up a 5k couch!
Your fingernails are not performing the same function as your cat's claws. It's not the same.
Although legal the practice is slowly on the way out here in Canada.
official policy statement
EDIT: while looking for something about the official Canadian policy I stumbled upon something called "devocalization". What the hell.
Dark Octave
Banned
So your child is the same as an animal and an animal is no different from a child? Cats can and are meant to fend for themselves way sooner than a child is able to.
Talk about herpderp quotes.
Is their natural state. Also, my parents wouldn't let me to have an indoor cat. So, it was an outdoor cat or a homeless cat (we adopted all of our cats).
I wouldn't go that far, a Guinea pig would work fine if you want something fuzzy to pet from time to time.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I wear little rubber things over my feet all the time.
Paper Sparrow
Member
I still don't see a logical reason to declaw a cat, from the owner's perspective. Why declaw one, other than to avoid scratched furniture and the chance of being scratched yourself?
freenudemacusers
Member
all living beings are equal
flamingotripod
Member
If you are too worried about your cat clawing up your leather couch, you shouldnt own a fucking cat in the first place. A couch can be replaced at any time, yet people worry about this more than their own cat. SMH
Welcome to, "I want a pet, it should look like this but have all the power of a goldfish."
But honestly, noone here declaws their cats and noone has really complained about scratched furniture. You just have to train your cat for scratching post. Claws are used in the natural expression of a cat, pawing you or gently clawing you, your cat wants to say two very different things.
Of course a cat can live happily declawed, as you can with arm athrophy, which prevents you from hauling stuff and punching stuff. Less dangerous cat, less dangerous man.
But YOU decided to have a cat as a pet, not the cat. And then it gets punished for your choice?
H.Protagonist
[-_-]/
My childhood cats were declawed and I thought it was normal/fine. Now that I know what it is, I would never do it to my cats.
As there are reasonable alternatives to surgically removing pieces of them like scratching posts, training, clipping and the nail gloves, I don't think declawing should ever be anyone's first choice or even 5th.
I'm sure many people have also already mentioned this, but indoor cats, though perfectly safe inside, do get out sometimes and (to add to the reasonable alternatives list) I would not want my pet defenseless if this situation ever occurred.
As there are reasonable alternatives to surgically removing pieces of them like scratching posts, training, clipping and the nail gloves, I don't think declawing should ever be anyone's first choice or even 5th.
I'm sure many people have also already mentioned this, but indoor cats, though perfectly safe inside, do get out sometimes and (to add to the reasonable alternatives list) I would not want my pet defenseless if this situation ever occurred.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
your furniture is more important than your cats. if you wanted an animal that didn't have claws, don't get a cat. all I see from your post is you trying to justify it to yourself for why you did why you did.
yes.....herpderp quote indeed.
Synth_floyd
Banned
Don't declaw. Just train it or use the claw condoms.
Dark Octave
Banned
This is false and I would be pretty surprised of anyone who would agree with you on this.
That's a poor 'going further'. The comparison has little basis.
I would have no problem with someone killing a cat and eating it. I would have a problem with someone declawing a cat.
No, it is not intended as a joke. Further, I'm a little confused by your stance here: are you saying that caring about birds and rodents dying is "peta bullshit?" If you have so little concern for the lives of animals, why do you seemingly care so much about a cat's claws? There are several reasons why this isn't logical.
First, Birds and rodents (particularly ravens and rats) are often just as if not more intelligent than cats are. Intelligence is the most common method to determine animal rights: it is why, for example, biologists recommend different standards of care for chimps and dolphins than for gophers or owls.
Second, as already noted, most birds and rodents are not invasive species, while cats are indeed defined as an invasive species in the US. This means you believe the invasive species should be carefully protected, while by contrast you don't care if native species of birds and rodentia die en masse.
Third, people do indeed keep pet birds and pet rats, so if the argument is "well cats are pets and birds aren't so cats should be protected," that isn't logically consistent.
Fourth, if the suggestion is that birds and rodents can have diseases (and that they are therefore a scourge to be cleansed), so too can cats. By virtually any logical angle I can imagine someone saying "cats are special and deserve better treatment than birds/rodents," the argument is invalid.
I agree, it definitely should not matter -- I was making sure other people did not use that argument against me. Several posts had implied, "well the US is the only one who does this, so you guys are a weird outlier." My point was to show that 1) The US is not a weird outlier, and 2) this represents an argumentum ad populum, which is logically invalid.
NinjaBoiX
Member
I didn't even consider this. Good point.
Can Crusher
Banned
I had a guinea pig in the house living with us, and my cat never did him harm even though his cage was open and he could walk around.
Same way my dog doesn't harm my cat. You establish those rules by educating them, not by neutering them.
Same way my dog doesn't harm my cat. You establish those rules by educating them, not by neutering them.
That's an interesting position. Can you explain why? Please note that many people aren't eating cats because they're starving and it's the only option; they're eating them because they find them delicious and filling.
It is definitely a good point. Also note as mentioned earlier that declawed cats are more likely to develop arthritis in older age and can have trouble climbing even inside the house (e.g. an old cat trying to jump up on your bed).
Angry Fork
Member
If you're that worried about your house/furniture, don't get a cat (or any large pet really). I'm honestly surprised someone like Opiate is holding such beliefs. Declawing cats is cruel, I don't know why this is even debateable.
Should we shave all cats to prevent hairs from getting all over people's furniture? After all it costs time to clean that up, time that could have been used by the adult on something more necessary, thus creating a net loss of productivity. I mean come on...
Should we shave all cats to prevent hairs from getting all over people's furniture? After all it costs time to clean that up, time that could have been used by the adult on something more necessary, thus creating a net loss of productivity. I mean come on...
Paper Sparrow
Member
I can't speak for the other poster, but the way I see it is that killing an animal for food is much more humane than deforming an animal for your convenience.
Outside of the third world, eating animals for food is most definitely a convenience; people just prefer the taste of meat and would rather eat a steak than asparagus and beans. At the very least, most westerners could eat vastly less meat without affecting their nutrition. In fact, many people continue to eat meat even when it is bad for them. Consider McDonald's, Burger King, Taco Bell, and virtually any other fast food.
In those cases, not only are we killing animals for the convenience of eating them instead of eating a salad, we're making objectively poor health decisions so that we can keep eating animals even when it is bad for us.
I want to reiterate that I am not actually endorsing the argument that no one in first world countries should eat any meat. I am only arguing that if you are considerate about animal rights, I'd ask you to be logically consistent and not apply special rights to cats because you happen to personally find them cute.
I have no strong feelings either way on the subject, but obviously shaving a cat would need to be done continuously throughout its lifetime. Declawing generally leads to a few days of pain/discomfort, and then it's fine.
If you take the line of "it needs defenses", that makes sense...provided your cat goes outdoors. But everyone implying that owners who elected to perform the procedure as cruel, heartless human beings needs to relax. You, as a responsible pet owner, are providing a happy and sheltered life for an animal. If that animal needs to go undergo a few days of pain out of the thousands it'll live, well, so be it, as far as I'm concerned. I personally feel that confining an animal to a small cage for 95%+ of its waking life is far more cruel, but everyone seems to be fine with this.
Paper Sparrow
Member
I should have been more clear in my post. I find killing animals for convenience better than deforming animals for convenience. I don't like how we treat the majority of livestock and I have an opinion on many things to do with animals that others would find "PETA-ish", but I have no problem with eating animals as long as they were killed in a humane way.
First, I would point out that the lives of most feed animals would hardly be described as "humane." So not only do many pigs and cows and chickens live horrible lives, but they are slaughtered at the end of it -- and yet we keep going to McDonalds and Taco Bell anyway, and people who decry others for going to fast food chains are often seen as fringe PETA extremists.
Second, even if that were not the case and feed animals were treated humanely, I don't think I understand your position. While I generally avoid humanizing animals, I think most people would prefer to be tortured for a while than be killed forever. Outside of declawing, most domesticated cats are given a loving home where they receive lots of food and care and attention from owners: if you think declawing is so terrible that you'd rather the cat simply be placed in a box at birth and kept there until it is slaughtered and eaten, we have such wildly different views that I don't think our moral differences can be reasonably reconciled in a thread like this.
Angry Fork
Member
Those options are also cheaper though, poor people have little access to the resources for vegetarian/vegan diets. I agree with you though that for most people in first world it's convenience and we should extend our sympathy towards all animals. But I don't think it's right to say well a lot of people still eat meat and are hypocrites, therefore I should be able to declaw my cat.
Paper Sparrow
Member
I don't think a lot of livestock live humane lives. Unfortunately, I and many others are not in a good enough financial situation to affect that.
On your second point, I don't quite get what you are saying. It's not being tortured, it's losing something that affects your well being for the rest of your life. Cats who have been declawed have issues later in life, as has been stated already in this thread. And for what really? So your furniture won't be scratched? No one has given a good reason for declawing a cat yet.
In this particular part of the conversation (this thread is now quite long), I am not necessarily arguing in favor of declawing cats.I am only highlighting the apparent inconsistency in people's views on animal rights.
I of course cannot prove this, but I suspect many people are arguing from emotion rather than reason. First, most people find cats very cute, so they are likely to care more about them than, say, rats, which are also very intelligent animals but aren't considered quite so cute, so we don't care if they are exterminated, let alone declawed. Secondly, the cats' immediate presence in your home also gives people a more visceral, emotional response than eating meat does. The cats are right there in our homes; by contrast, In most cases, the animals which were bred and slaughtered to get you that hamburger are animals you will never see or even think about as living creatures, because they lived inside a tiny box in Nebraska or Oklahoma or Texas.
I understand why these emotional responses might exist, but they do not make for compelling argument.
Dark Octave
Banned
I would be willing to try this before declawing but if that didn't work I wouldn't hesitate to pop off every last knuckle.
How so? Meat is typically more expensive than vegetables, not less. Not always -- and perhaps not in all countries -- but often.
Might have problems later in life, but yes, that is true, as I have personally noted several times in this thread. It's definitely a very good point and I think it should be considered in the conversation.
The reasons I can think of off the top of my head:
So furniture won't be scratched
So you won't be scratched
So that fights between your (indoor) cats are less dangerous
So your outdoor cats kill less birds/rodentia/etc.
There may be more, but those are the four I've thought of.
systemfehler
Member
I know a lot of people with cats and often play with them (video games with the owners and catch the string with the cats). I also take care of them sometimes when the owners are on holidays. I never heard about declawing a cat especially not for the purpose of saving money on furniture or wild birds. If there would be a proper medical reason I would understand but this sounds more like a surgery for the owners convenience.
Yes they sometimes bring a mouse or bird from the field and sometimes I get a scratch like the chair next to me but this is stuff you know before you let a cat into your life. Furthermore wouldn't be the more animal friendly solution be to just let the cat stay in and teach her not to scratch things? It is in their nature to use claws and teeth for various purposes.
A dog can scratch the floor, kill animals aswell and even wipe of a precious ming vase with his tail - should we cut off the tail and pull his claws? I am sorry I don't want to step on anybodys toes and in the end everyone can and should do what he thinks is best but at least think once about the implications of your decisions and if that is something that is really important enough to justify a surgery.
Yes they sometimes bring a mouse or bird from the field and sometimes I get a scratch like the chair next to me but this is stuff you know before you let a cat into your life. Furthermore wouldn't be the more animal friendly solution be to just let the cat stay in and teach her not to scratch things? It is in their nature to use claws and teeth for various purposes.
A dog can scratch the floor, kill animals aswell and even wipe of a precious ming vase with his tail - should we cut off the tail and pull his claws? I am sorry I don't want to step on anybodys toes and in the end everyone can and should do what he thinks is best but at least think once about the implications of your decisions and if that is something that is really important enough to justify a surgery.
Devolution
Member
What is with the eating meat deflection?
Don't want to deal with the fact that declawing a caw is for purely superficial fucking reasons? Gotta attack people's diet? Wow.
So you think people should let declawed cats outside? Lord. What is wrong with you?
Don't want to deal with the fact that declawing a caw is for purely superficial fucking reasons? Gotta attack people's diet? Wow.
So you think people should let declawed cats outside? Lord. What is wrong with you?
Paper Sparrow
Member
Meat and eggs are the easiest way to get certain nutrients most fruits and vegetables won't give you. Heck, eggs are the easiest source of protein and can be applied to many dishes, yet chickens aren't treated all that well.
And I just don't find those arguments compelling. All of those things can be fixed if you spend a few minutes a day to train the animal. In fact, it's cheaper to do so.
Dogs don't injure and damage with nearly the same frequency.
I'm not gonna be dishonest about it. If I were to declaw my cat (I would likely attempt to train it first), yes, *it would be for my benefit*. I'm not trying to pretend I'm helping the cat in any way. But in the end, I'm giving a lot of time and money (and, if it has claws, pain) to create a mutually beneficial relationship between myself and the cat. It can go through two days of pain. And I have no experience with a cat having long term complications from declawing; does anyone have statistics on this? If it were frequent enough, I'd be willing to reconsider.
Bren McGuire
Member
I would argue that I am being logically consistent when I am doing exactly that because there is no reason to assume that all animals are equal, especially considering that humans are animals too.
Animal right are arbitrary constructs to increase our level of happiness. In the end our treatment of animals is dependent on how much we empathize with them.
If you ignore emotion and empathy this obviously doesn't appear to make any sense.
Right, and in third world countries this is a material concern. For most people in the first world, it is very possible to eat completely vegan and be quite healthy. It is less convenient, mind you, but not impossible.
And so too can eating meat. With just a little more time spent preparing food, you can avoid killing so many animals. In this case I'm even willing to throw a bone and say that you can eat some meat; most Americans, at least, eat far more meat than could possibly be justified by nutritional needs. Even if I were to accept that most Americans aren't going to be completely Vegan, what's actually happening is that most Americans are so eager to eat meat that they eat is even when it is bad for them.
The tradeoff is when they do so, it can be fatal. A cat can't kill you on it's own. Most non-toy dogs could rip out your jugular if they wanted to, gg humans
They also can break stuff wagging their tail, but we don't dock tails either.
Cats usually go for bites first, then wrestle. They also tend to bat with their claws sheathed at each other first, if they're not feral.
You know what a racoon called an outdoor, declawed cat? Dinner.
Animal rights are definitely not arbitrary constructs; most biologists, for example, define animal rights by the level of their intelligence and capacity to feel pain. As already stated, this is why many scientists argue for better care of chimpanzees and dolphins than for owls and gophers. In fact, some scientists have recently begun arguing that dolphins should be granted human rights because their intelligence is so advanced. Even more importantly, this is a primary reason why we hold human rights so sacrosanct: our intelligence is advanced enough that killing humans arbitrarily is considered wrong. It is also why it is considered acceptable to kill humans in a vegetative state; they no longer have intelligence.
There are definitely methods by which animal rights can be reasonably articulated.
This isn't morally consistent. If the value of life is merely commensurate with our subjective empathy, then it would be okay to kill a vagrant bum and not a J-pop star. I will go ahead and say that humans should be considered "more valuable" than animal life, and you could make a case stating that any animal life that demonstrates self-awareness should be held higher than others, but other than that, I don't see why a fish's life should be more inherently important than a lizard's.
Or coyotes, for that matter. Absolutely, that is a good reason not to declaw your cat. Listing the benefits of declawing does not mean there are no downsides and that declawing is a perfect idea that should be uniformly practiced.
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