Support NeoGAF

[Eusis]

I said it once and I'll say it again:

What matters are the games not the platform.

If the game is good then the game is good no matter where you play it.

My variation on that is "a great game is great anywhere so long as it is built appropriately for its platform". Some are fine with playing GTA3 on their smartphones over consoles, yes, but for some it's not ideal, and there's going to be games that work even worse for it like Mega Man. At the same time I would NOT want to play something like Kirby: Canvas Curse or Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery on a traditional controller, and even among games built for controllers something like Street Figher is far from ideal on the standard 360 controller.

I don't play games on my iPod Touch MUCH, and given the battery drain I probably would be even less inclined to do so on a smartphone, but they have a niche they fill well and so do more traditional handhelds, and while I'd prefer to keep traditional handhelds of the two I STILL think it'd be more ideal if they can co-exist.

 

[BiggNife]

I think that when a iOS/Android game has a control scheme that actually feels like it was made for touchscreen devices it can be a great experience

The problem is that virtual buttons/joysticks are awful and will never be good. They're not a solution.

Dead Space for iOS/Android is a great example of taking a genre that's been done plenty of times on mobile devices but designing a control scheme where it actually feels kinda natural instead of frustrating. I really wish more devs would look to that game as an example.

On the other hand I don't think there's a way to make a 3D platformer like Mario 3D Land work without buttons, which is why I'm happy I bought a 3DS.

 

[Junie12]

I play on both platforms usually, iphone is great for some quick gaming. While I use my PSP mostly at night when I'm off my computer. Both can be very convenient and have a lot of great games to play. But the psp has more games suited to my taste so that's why I prefer dedicated handheld games. Their games are just more fulfilling imo.

 

[Wario64]

like what exactly is so great on mobile? I want lists! And it better not include angry birds!.

I have my android phone and ipad with me. I am ready to be wowed.

Angry Birds is one of the most overhyped games on mobile platforms. Why would I mention it?

There are many titles that are great on iPhone. You just need to figure out what YOU want to play. The App Store gets refreshed with new apps pretty much every Wednesday night. Anyway, if you really want to know what I enjoy playing:

Forget-Me-Not
Jetpack Joyride
Dungeon Raid
Death Rally
Ticket to Ride Pocket
Cytus
Ghost Trick
DoDonPachi Resurrection
Espgaluda 2
W.E.L.D.E.R.
Puzzlejuice
Real Racing 2
1000 Heroz
Game Dev Story
Grand Prix Story
Mage Gauntlet
Edge (Extended)
League of Evil
Burn the Rope
Mr. Ninja
ZONR
Fruit Ninja (Puss in Boots)
Cut the Rope
Where's My Water
Flight Control
Peggle
Temple Run
Amazing Breaker
Match Panic
Groove Coaster
Mos Speedrun
Bejeweled (Blitz)
Async Corporation
Drop 7
Monsters Ate My Condo
Continuity 2
Osmos
Coin Drop!
The Incident
GTA3
Zombie Highway
Another World
Age of Zombies
Infinity Blade (1/2)
Super Crate Box
Beat Hazard Ultra



All these are on my iPhone right now, plus more. I enjoy them. Fuck Angry Birds.

 

[Foffy]

My only gripe with smartphone/pad gaming is that outside emulation and ports it's stuck with an awful lot of the same types of games, there are TONS of tower defense/toss this into that/farm/dev story style games. I mean i get they work on the platform, but the market is flooded with them.

I think that's because it's what works for the platform that people eat up. It's why every "AAA" release on consoles is a first person shooter, or something with shooting.

 

[1-D_FTW]

This is what I was getting at. Define 'amazing experience'. Because honestly, playing Beat Hazard Ultra on my iPhone is an amazing experience IMO. But its also one of my favorite games on Steam. Playing Uncharted 3? That was definitely NOT an amazing experience for me. Playing Ocarina of time on the 3DS while neat isn't an amazing experience for me.

Sounds like you like arcade style games and he doesn't. I'm with you. I've always liked those type of games. Amazingly enough, some people just don't consider them full games. Unless there's a linear beginning, middle, and end, they can't grasp what the point is.

 

[Kai Dracon]

As said above, the "it's the games" mantra does have an issue with the interface on smartphones. The smartphone prophets are still comprised of a lot of people who don't care about playing "traditional" games on the go, so see nothing wrong with saying all we need are iphones and tablets for any gaming need.

 

[klee123]

I enjoy both types of platforms provided the games are specifically designed for their respective platforms in mind. That said, trying to play a traditional game like a fighting game or tps on the iphone is a nightmare.

 

[Cipherr]

This attitude of casual gaming/real games and not real games was freaking chronic and epidemic this entire generation on GAF involving the Wii. I am genuinely shocked that people actually care enough to call for a stop to it now all of a sudden. I wish I could find some of the images made and posted here throughout the generation. The Wiifit one with "This is not gaming, stay the fuck away from my hobby!" one made by a gaffer in particular.

 

[- J - D -]

If you can find something please let me know, because I'd love to play the shit out of it.

I haven't played this sorcery game you linked to. I'll let you know when I give it a try on my iPad. But you know, one game doesn't rock the ship in my opinion.

 

[BiggNife]

Also in response to the "a great game is great anywhere" argument, I like Darksiders but I would never ever want to play it like this

This screenshot is the perfect example of how to do touchscreen gaming wrong.

 

[mescalineeyes]

The smartphone prophets are still comprised of a lot of people who don't care about playing "traditional" games on the go, so see nothing wrong with saying all we need are iphones and tablets for any gaming need.

No one is saying that. All most people are saying that the Vita's niche is too small nowadays.

I haven't played this sorcery game you linked to. I'll let you know when I give it a try on my iPad. But you know, one game doesn't rock the ship in my opinion.

you're absolutely right, but it's the perfect example to prove that the iOS isn't all angry birds and can actually produce meaningful, art-like experiences that are distinctively NOT to be enjoyed on the go.

 

[Dog Problems]

It's just ridiculous that many so-called experts and analysts think that just because "Angry Birds" was such a great hit, handhelds as we know them are a thing of the past.

In my opinion, handhelds and smartphones are not direct competitors.

Nintendo managed to lure people into gaming with the DS and all those casual Touch Generation games like "Brain Training". These newly won gamers now own smartphones, and the gaming experiences offered there are completely satisfying for them.

These casual gamers are not coming back to the 3DS or Vita, and Sony and Nintendo know that. It's been obvious for the past 1-2 years that the focus of the new handhelds are strictly aimed at core gamers. These core gamers are willing to spend lots of money for their hobby, but hard to please quality-wise.

What I want to say is just this: Classic handhelds and smartphones will live side by side for many years to come. If one of them has a temporary success story, it doesn't mean that the other one is doomed. They aim at quite different markets, both will find more than enough customers to be profitable.

I agree with you there and I think a lot of the hate towards smartphone gaming is articles like that. Plus, I think some people may actually feel threatened that something they've loved for so long might go away and be replaced with something they're not familiar with.

 

[RoboFu]

Angry Birds is one of the most overhyped games on mobile platforms. Why would I mention it?

There are many titles that are great on iPhone. You just need to figure out what YOU want to play. The App Store gets refreshed with new apps pretty much every Wednesday night. Anyway, if you really want to know what I enjoy playing:

list of two bit flash games.


All these are on my iPhone right now, plus more. I enjoy them. Fuck Angry Birds.

The only one close is Infinity Blade and its not even a 10th of the game mario 3d it is more of a tech demo. Im just not into those types of games. they are shallow and cheap.

 

[Cipherr]

No one is saying that.

This is very VERY wrong. People are, and indeed have said EXACTLY that. And each time, they rightfully run into opposition.

 

[Uno Venova]

Handhelds can easily offer amazing experiences, true. It's been that way for years, but smartphone gaming has yet to offer me any amazing experiences, the best games are the fun little distractions and time wasters like WMW, Cut the rope and the like.

 

[Foffy]

No one is saying that. All most people are saying that the Vita's niche is too small nowadays.

This is more of a library issue right now than anything else. It has no Super Mario 3D Land that screams "buy the platform for ____" boom that the 3DS got with such a release. Uncharted is not the game, nor the franchise, that will do this.

And people are saying that. Anytime there's a thread on dedicated handhelds, at least one of those types of people come in to talk about how phones are it and that's the end of that.

 

[KenOD]

It's never been a "verse situation for me, but always a complimentary existence together. Just like home consoles and personal computers.

While on the bus this morning enjoyed a great session of Dariusburst Second Prologue, when I got home an hour ago I saw a thread here and played SEGA All Star Racing for DS. I never thought of the other while playing one, I never saw one as better than the other, just that I was having a good time playing the games I wanted when I wanted to and how I wanted to. Sometimes I may even want the difference between capacitive or resistive touch screen.

I don't want to play a Third Person Shooter on the iPhone or Android, but I do on 3DS. Likewise I don't much care to play a board game nor RTS on the 3DS. I can play any of those because I have both, and that's good for me.
Sometimes I may even want the difference between capacitive or resistive touch screen.s

It's a real shame that it took so long for mobile games to match up to Japanese market, and an even bigger shame that there is still the idea that mobiles only get "Angry Birds" and "Snake" and other throw-away titles, when they offer a lot of variety. Yet it's already a strong market and still growing. It will find it's place and become accepted as just another pillar of games to all.

Edit: I should also say it's a shame that people expect and demand and want the exact same type of games dedicated handheld games get for mobile. A console does best when it gets games made for it's hardware, fits the feel and desire it provides for itself. Jetpack Joyride is an amazing game even though people can call it a "flash game" as an insult, but just as Tetris fit the original Game Boy so damn well, so too does Jetpack Joyride for iPhone for me. Embrace and enjoy what it does that fits it best, even if they aren't multi-hour AAA titles that you would just want to play with a controller anyroad.

Handhelds haven't exactly taken over my time from home consoles either, despite the "appeal" of PSP and Vita.

Still growth on both sides though, dedicated handhelds and mobiles, but there will be a good middle ground reached with wonderful exceptions on both sides.

 

[mescalineeyes]

This is very VERY wrong. People are, and indeed have said EXACTLY that. And each time, they rightfully run into opposition.

Then just remember that those people are not very smart and keep ignoring them.

This is more of a library issue right now than anything else. It has no Super Mario 3D Land that screams "buy the platform for ____" boom that the 3DS got with such a release. Uncharted is not the game, nor the franchise, that will do this.

Isn't the VITA's whole thing to replicate the living room experience? I don't think most people want that out of their handhelds nowadays. They want to play their consoles in the house and angry birds on the go.
Core gamers should and will cheer for the VITA, but I think it's done for.

And yes, Uncharted is not a system seller, and especially not GA. It's not even an 8/10.

 

[BiggNife]

The only one close is Infinity Blade and its not even a 10th of the game mario 3d it is more of a tech demo. Im just not into those types of games. they are shallow and cheap.

Except that Ghost Trick is a full fledged game that was originally on DS for retail price

So uh

 

[Dog Problems]

The only one close is Infinity Blade and its not even a 10th of the game mario 3d it is more of a tech demo. Im just not into those types of games. they are shallow and cheap.

So the problem is on your end and not the games or the platform.

 

[jman2050]

Then just remember that those people are not very smart and keep ignoring them.

That would be easier if they didn't show up on cue in every handheld thread imaginable nowadays.

 

[RoboFu]

Except that Ghost Trick is a full fledged game that was originally on DS for retail price

So uh

actually look at my first post.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Great games are great games regardless of platform.

As for the whole smartphone thing, I love gaming on mine. Sure, it lacks buttons, but I'm enjoying experiences that aren't on my 3DS. I'm talking stuff where there's a far greater social element integrated.

But another reason I love it is because at 38yrs old, my friends male or female all have one. I don't have a single friend that owns a 3DS or plans on buying a Vita. I mean, maybe for their kids, but not them. So for me the smartphone is the gaming device where I can get some fun gaming in with them.

Of course I haven't abandoned my 3DS, but that's something I only mess with it home. My smartphone is with me all of the time.

 

[east of eastside]

So, what do PSVita and 3DS do over the long haul as smartphones and tablets experience major annual graphics leaps over them from here on out?

Is this argument still going to come down to just buttons and control interfaces? Does the future not allow smartphones to evolve in terms of interfaces? Are more sophisticated dedicated gaming phones in the future out of the question as well?

 

[statham]

I can't public play my ds/psp where I can with my android. but I'm guessing thats a me thing.

 

[Wario64]

I always see people mention mobile gaming as 'time-wasters' as if it's a bad thing. Video games are time wasters, period.

 

[jman2050]

So, what do PSVita and 3DS do over the long haul as smartphones and tablets experience major annual graphics leaps over them from here on out?

Is this argument still going to come down to just buttons and control interfaces? Does the future not allow smartphones to evolve in terms of interfaces? Are more sophisticated dedicated gaming phones in the future out of the question as well?

If smartphones evolve in their interface it's going to be in spite of Apple. I can guarantee this.

 

[mescalineeyes]

I always see people mention mobile gaming as 'time-wasters' as if it's a bad thing. Video games are time wasters, period.

it's all about experiences, mangggg.

 

[Always-honest]

There are nice games to play on any platform now, but i would never buy a smartphone for the games right now. But there are some nice games on smartphones.

 

[SmokedMeat]

The only one close is Infinity Blade and its not even a 10th of the game mario 3d it is more of a tech demo. Im just not into those types of games. they are shallow and cheap.

Since when did Mario platformers become the measuring stick of whether a game is good or not? I guess Punchout is a tech demo as well, since it's not even a 10th of the game Mario 3d is.

 

[Wario64]

it's all about experiences, mangggg.

No wonder arcade gaming died.

 

[BiggNife]

I always see people mention mobile gaming as 'time-wasters' as if it's a bad thing. Video games are time wasters, period.

BUT MY IMMERSION

 

[RoboFu]

Give a mario 3d or crisis core type of game on mobile and I may change my mind.

but even emulated nes/psx are crappy to play because of the touch screen buttons.

 

[Dog Problems]

No wonder arcade gaming died.

That's actually the appeal of iOS gaming for me. I miss arcades a lot and iOS has been a return to that.

 

[Foffy]

Isn't the VITA's whole thing to replicate the living room experience? I don't think most people want that out of their handhelds nowadays. They want to play their consoles in the house and angry birds on the go.
Core gamers should and will cheer for the VITA, but I think it's done for.

I have no clue. What I wanted from the Vita was something akin to the PSP: good games. Sony is once again trying to take "handheld gaming out of the gutter" by offering console experiences on a portable device. This didn't do them wonders with PSP, and I don't see that happening on Vita, especially after the fact this is a simple repeat of what we experienced about 7 years ago.

Sony emphasizes their console franchises for their portable platforms, but it's the portable experience made for those platforms that are the true sellers. I'd rather have more Patapons than God of Wars, more Loco Rocos over Uncharteds when it comes to handheld games. Nintendo knows how to separate experiences offered on consoles and portables in clear, impactful ways, but all Sony does is make lower-end console experiences on the go, and I think people don't want that all the time. It's cool to have it, but should every game play like a console game in that it takes at least an hour to get the ball rolling?

 

[Scotch]

It's just ridiculous that many so-called experts and analysts think that just because "Angry Birds" was such a great hit, handhelds as we know them are a thing of the past.

In my opinion, handhelds and smartphones are not direct competitors.

Nintendo managed to lure people into gaming with the DS and all those casual Touch Generation games like "Brain Training". These newly won gamers now own smartphones, and the gaming experiences offered there are completely satisfying for them.

These casual gamers are not coming back to the 3DS or Vita, and Sony and Nintendo know that. It's been obvious for the past 1-2 years that the focus of the new handhelds are strictly aimed at core gamers. These core gamers are willing to spend lots of money for their hobby, but hard to please quality-wise.

What I want to say is just this: Classic handhelds and smartphones will live side by side for many years to come. If one of them has a temporary success story, it doesn't mean that the other one is doomed. They aim at quite different markets, both will find more than enough customers to be profitable.

I don't think there are as many core gamers on handhelds as some people may think there are. Handhelds' biggest audience has always been kids, and kids these days want iPads for Christmas.

The 3DS will be fine, simply because it's the only place to get Nintendo games. As for Vita, I'm a lot more pessimistic. The dedicated gaming handheld market WILL shrink, and I fear it won't be big enough for two competing platforms.

 

[mescalineeyes]

Give a mario 3d or crisis core type of game on mobile and I may change my mind.

but even emulated nes/psx are crappy to play because of the touch screen buttons.

Why do you insist on playing games on a platform they're not meant to be played on?
that's like asking for Wii Sports on the PSP.

I have no clue. What I wanted from the Vita was something akin to the PSP: good games. Sony is once again trying to take "handheld gaming out of the gutter" by offering console experiences on a portable device. This didn't do them wonders with PSP, and I don't see that happening on Vita, especially after the fact this is a simple repeat of what we experienced about 7 years ago.

Sony emphasizes their console franchises for their portable platforms, but it's the portable experience made for those platforms that are the true sellers. I'd rather have more Patapons than God of Wars, more Loco Rocos over Uncharteds when it comes to handheld games. Nintendo knows how to separate experiences offered on consoles and portables in clear, impactful ways, but all Sony does is make lower-end console experiences on the go, and I think people don't want that all the time. It's cool to have it, but should every game play like a console game in that it takes at least an hour to get the ball rolling?

I like you. You can post instead of me in this thread now.

 

[Baconsammy]

I said it once and I'll say it again:

What matters are the games not the platform.

If the game is good then the game is good no matter where you play it.

For the most part I agree, but not always. Zen Pinball is great, but I hate it on the iPhone because I cant stand using the screen to move the flippers. Conversely I hate the 3DS version because the visuals are awful, but I love the buttons. Tetris is also a game I can't play on glass. So in some cases I love the game, but not on specific platforms because of shortcomings of the hardware.

 

[- J - D -]

Speaking of Mario 3D, what's a good 3D platformer on ios that I could play?

 

[Eusis]

That would be easier if they didn't show up on cue in every handheld thread imaginable nowadays.

They may just be trolling, but there's still the articles written by people being completely serious on the topic, and honestly that puts me off to smartphone gaming more than anything except exploitative freemium games and completely awful save file management (WHY CAN'T YOU JUST LEAVE IT ON THE PHONE/TABLET WHEN THE APP IS DELETED!?). Many of my favorite experiences for the last several years, partially because I tend to prefer Japanese games but also because they don't NEED to be big, high budget games, yet not cheap DD/indie efforts either, and I'd hate to see this middleground eliminated because enough people seriously believe handheld games should never be more than $10 or even $1.

Well, and quite a few games just don't work great without buttons, namely ones that demand precise timing.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I always see people mention mobile gaming as 'time-wasters' as if it's a bad thing. Video games are time wasters, period.

Exactly. At Dice there was a parallell drawn between the old arcade games of yesteryear, and mobile gaming of today. I totally agree.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...-in-todays-social-mobile-games.ars?old=mobile

Like the arcade gamers of old who could easily move on to a nearby cabinet if a game was boring, mobile gamers can drop a free or low-cost game incredibly quickly in favor of a new title. Asteroids and Centipede creator Ed Logg pointed out that, in the arcade days, the goal was to make a game "that you could play with a beer in one hand and be entertained within 90 seconds," something we see in the simple, quick hit games of today. "If you don't grab the attention of player, give them fun early on, they'll move on to something else, because there's so much else out there," Battlezone creator Ed Rothberg added.

 

[Black Lawn Finale]

That would be easier if they didn't show up on cue in every handheld thread imaginable nowadays.

Exactly. It's hard to have a discussion about portable gaming on the 3DS/Vita without the smartphone supporters vocal about it trying to convince people that gaming on a smartphone is the only proper choice and everything else is shit. I game on both my iPhone and on a 3DS/PSP. I game on whatever floats my boat at the time. Do I want something fun and quick for 5-10 minutes? I use the iPhone. Do I want something more engaging and traditional? I use the 3DS/PSP. Anyone trying to say you need just one or the other is being dumb as both can co-exist.

 

[Wario64]

Give a mario 3d or crisis core type of game on mobile and I may change my mind.

but even emulated nes/psx are crappy to play because of the touch screen buttons.

If a Mario 3D game came on a mobile device, people would just complain about lack of buttons. Those games are not suitable for touchscreen gaming.


And as LastWindow said, mobile gaming (at least on the iOS) is the return of arcade experiences. We have a massive Game Center GAF list and pretty much any good game on iOS you will find other people playing and competing for high scores. It's fun and addicting. There's a reason why the Atari guys have teamed up with Seamus Blackley to create iOS games later this year.

 

[KingK]

I say no, I've had an iPhone since the second year, I've yet to have an 'amazing' experience on it, and I try to play the big hyped games. There's cool time wasters, nothing more.

Yeah, this. I mean, I have no problem with people enjoying those bite-sized experiences, but I just want to play something with more substance, I guess. I also just can't currently afford the monthly fees for smartphone data plans.

What I would have a problem with, is if smartphones started being a big enough part of the market that the more meaty, quality experiences on dedicated handhelds start decreasing in quantity. I'm worried about the possibility of the market for handhelds consisting almost entirely of young children who don't own smartphones yet, and what that would mean for the types of games releasing.

If a Mario 3D game came on a mobile device, people would just complain about lack of buttons. Those games are not suitable for touchscreen gaming.


And as LastWindow said, mobile gaming (at least on the iOS) is the return of arcade experiences. We have a massive Game Center GAF list and pretty much any good game on iOS you will find other people playing and competing for high scores. It's fun and addicting. There's a reason why the Atari guys have teamed up with Seamus Blackley to create iOS games later this year.

That's the reason I'm not a fan of smartphone gaming. I've never really enjoyed arcade/high score experiences. Competing for high scores just has no appeal to me at all.

 

[Tobor]

That's actually the appeal of iOS gaming for me. I miss arcades a lot and iOS has been a return to that.

Very true. I still miss the greasy pizza and checking out girls, but it's close enough.

 

[mescalineeyes]

"If you don't grab the attention of player, give them fun early on, they'll move on to something else, because there's so much else out there," Battlezone creator Ed Rothberg added.[/I]

That's actually a little sad, considering this is the reason we'll never get something akin to Silent Hill 2 again, really taking it's time to pull you into it's world, even if it is not necessarily fun at the onset, or ever, really.

 

[Raine]

I have no clue. What I wanted from the Vita was something akin to the PSP: good games. Sony is once again trying to take "handheld gaming out of the gutter" by offering console experiences on a portable device. This didn't do them wonders with PSP, and I don't see that happening on Vita, especially after the fact this is a simple repeat of what we experienced about 7 years ago.

Sony emphasizes their console franchises for their portable platforms, but it's the portable experience made for those platforms that are the true sellers. I'd rather have more Patapons than God of Wars, more Loco Rocos over Uncharteds when it comes to handheld games. Nintendo knows how to separate experiences offered on consoles and portables in clear, impactful ways, but all Sony does is make lower-end console experiences on the go, and I think people don't want that all the time. It's cool to have it, but should every game play like a console game in that it takes at least an hour to get the ball rolling?

Can we stop repeating this? 3DS has games like freaking OoT, Super Mario 3DLand, Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid 3D. They're all big titles. These are all "console" like gaming experiences. They ALSO offer pick up and play games. As well as the Vita. Why people pretend that it's one or the other, I don't know. But it's simply not true.

 

[Dog Problems]

Very true. I still miss the greasy pizza and checking out girls, but it's close enough.

You could always walk around the mall with your iPad/iCade in one hand and a pizza box in the other. Then just set up shop where ever the girls are.

 

[jman2050]

Incidentally I should point out that I was never a big arcade guy in the first place, so in a way I see that style of game design as a form of regression for me personally.