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[Slightly Live]

I just realised I've played on a pirate copy, downloaded by a friend. I only realised this because, thanks to reading around here, I found out it isn't available in Europe yet, and my friend hardly seems the type to go through the bother of acquiring the game. Explains why he wouldn't let me play online too. He's a an asswipe and has helped contribute to the shitty experience that proper paying customers have experienced over the past few days. I'm gonna bitch at him for misleading me, but I doubt he's going to give a shit.

The bright side being I am going to pick this up when it hits Europe, the little of it I played has sold me on it and I'd love to get online and play it. Stardock needs support, they have been fantastic.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Since most of the audience for this game is the DOTA-playing Warcraft III crowd, I can't see people switching to a prettier DOTA for $40."


This game is definitely not for the DOTA-playing Warcraft III crowd. Not most of them anyway.

 

[Cat in the Hat]

I don't know if this game is even on Steam. It might be exclusive to Stardock's Impulse.

Oh yeah forgot Stardock runs impulse, I'm gonna check it out after work. Maybe some you can't teach me how to play the thing.

 

[dLMN8R]

Gotta love when the "Piracy Defense Force" folks spring forth in every piracy thread. Oh sure, they won't come outright and say "Avast ye mateys, I be surfin' the high internet seas, lookin' fer me free torrents! YARRRR!" Not at all. They'll find ways to somehow downplay the problem or even outright blame the developer in someway ("Well, if the game didn't suck so much, perhaps more folks would've bought it......durrrrr...") or whatever.

Facts are still facts: With piracy easier than ever, it's only a matter of time before you see vast numbers of (currently) established devs closing shop because they've suffered too many 20-40 million dollar AA-AAA game development end up with anywhere from 250,000-1,000,000 copies of each game being pirated.

No one is defending piracy. People are attacking Kotaku for sensationalizing a story to be about piracy when that wasn't the story, and using factual inaccuracies during that process.

 

[Zenith]

Go the way of Steam or die, Stardock. Yeah, it's noble to tout your open, no DRM policy, but its a necessary evil if you want sales.

How many copies of DoW2 were pirated?

Steam is completely crackable. With many games you could crack it so that it'd allow you to download games you hadn't paid for, which was considerably faster and more centralised than downloading from torrents. Is this some sort of Valve hero worship gone awry?

 

[Polk]

They shoud use Dark Athena copy protection. Game is out for two weeks, and still there is no crack for it.

I tought Razor postponed release their crack in respect to Atari. Or they're lying dogs.

 

[dasupremeone]

and its keeping paying players away from buying the game since its multi is bunked

 

[Zzoram]

I tought Razor postponed release their crack in respect to Atari. Or they're lying dogs.

Are you saying that crackers will hold back a crack if a publisher asks nicely? :lol

 

[FrozenCell]

piracy is market self-regulation

releasing your game months apart in different regions while ignoring some regions like they didn't even exist - this 20th century bs practice was made obsolete by the broadband internet ages ago, didn't they get them memo?

wait 2+ months or torrent today

 

[Zzoram]

piracy is market self-regulation

releasing your game months apart in different regions while ignoring some regions like they didn't even exist - this 20th century bs practice was made obsolete by the broadband internet ages ago, didn't they get them memo?

wait 2+ months or torrent today

I'm sure at least part of the problem of a world-wide release is localization. Europe may be a bigger PC market, but you have to release 5 more languages than a US/UK release.

 

[°°ToMmY°°]

i have a huge problem.

i bought the game, was downloading through it, but then i clicked on a tab and impulse crashed. now the download won't show anymore under the "my games" tab and i don't know how to redownload it. if i look in the registered products the game is there but i don't see a way to restart the download.

help?

 

[DangerStepp]

What's twisted about all of this is how Stardock normally doesn't impose copyright protection software.

I seem to remember Brad Wardell stating repeatedly on GFW Radio how Sins of a Solar Empire was not being pirated as much as you'd expect and was selling rather well.

On a similar note, Borys is probably rolling in his GAF grave.

 

[Zzoram]

This game is definitely not for the DOTA-playing Warcraft III crowd. Not most of them anyway.

Can you explain this? The game has always seemed like a standalone DOTA to me.

 

[Minsc]

I always hate threads like this, but this one isn't as bad as normal.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Can you explain this? The game has always seemed like a standalone DOTA to me."


The game is obviously the same style/genre, but it's different enough that a lot of DOTA players reject it.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

They need a demo.

 

[dLMN8R]

What's twisted about all of this is how Stardock normally doesn't impose copyright protection software.

I seem to remember him stating repeatedly on GFW Radio how Sins of a Solar Empire was not being pirated as much as you'd expect and was selling rather well.

Brad Wardell's explanation for low Sins of a Solar Empire piracy numbers is simply due to the audience that game was aimed at. The people the game might interest are the same type of people who would be more than happy to spend $40 on it, for the most part.

Demigod might not be mass market, but it at least has a wider mainstream appeal thanks to what it looks like in screenshots, which means quite simply that the audience it interests are probably more likely to pirate the game too.

But as I already pointed out - if their planned capacity for the next few weeks could handle 50,000 players throughout a day, quite obviously 18,000 at launch is right on target with sales projections.


Demigod was probably not an expensive game to make. Just like how Sins, GalCiv, and others had budgets of under $1 million yet sold hundreds of thousands, Demigod is probably right in that same vein.

 

[arstal]

You've covered everything I'd have liked to say better than I could myself.

One other factor- lots of people with Stardock pre-order, and had been playing a public beta. Those sales have already been collected by Stardock, and those people may have been playing the last public beta still. (Stardock collects those pre-order sales when the beta comes out I think, like they did with GC2)

It's also possible some of those pirated to get the 1.0 release early.

also, with Stardock, ultimately they don't care about the piracy as much as maximizing profits. They're probably mad only because the pirates hurt the review from Gamestop.

 

[Icomeinpeace]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358826

 

[FrozenCell]

I'm sure at least part of the problem of a world-wide release is localization. Europe may be a bigger PC market, but you have to release 5 more languages than a US/UK release.

no, the problem is making everyone else who can understand english wait until someone translates the game for zee germans.

we wouldn't be having this conversation if the game was released in english worldwide on day one, via Steam for optimal penetration.

 

[Windu]

And probably only about 500 of those 100,000 would have bought the game anyway.

 

[ghst]

the only story here is how piracy caused a choke in the servers. nothing to do with profits.

the demographic that would have bought the game but will settle for off-line skirmishes because they could pirate it is almost insignificant. much smaller than the demographics of those who use a warezed copy as their own personal, illegal demo, and those who would have never bought it anyway.

but yeah, blow-taku's gotta get them clicks.

 

[Fulleffect]

I pirated the game at first, checked it out, was fun, so i went and grabbed it off impulse..

I've had buyers remorse ever since, I can say I've prolly spent

70% of my time trying to get into games,

10% of my time playing on hamachi likely with pirates,

5% of my time cntrl alt deleting the game/crashing (likely because i can only sit staring at a menu screen while trying to get a game and end up alt tabbing)

5% waiting 5-10 minutes in a que, finally getting into a game and before it even loads i hear A PLAYER HAS LEFT THE GAME

5% of my time spent while the game is frozen after clicking various menus (60+ seconds while the game loads, 20+ seconds sometimes while clicking internet menus, custom game, skirmish etc..)

5% getting into a game thats 1v1 or 2v2

They can complain all they want, but when they release broken products it just makes people pirate it more - I know I regret purchasing it so far

If it's broken because pirates are connecting, maybe it shouldn't be communicating with their servers every time someone clicks a button or looks at their screen

I just want to click the matchmaking and play within 5~ minutes

the game is really fun, but playing against AI / staring at the menus is not

 

[DangerStepp]

I pirated the game at first, checked it out, was fun, so i went and grabbed it off impulse..

I've had buyers remorse ever since, I can say I've prolly spent

70% of my time trying to get into games,

10% of my time playing on hamachi likely with pirates,

5% of my time cntrl alt deleting the game/crashing (likely because i can only sit staring at a menu screen while trying to get a game and end up alt tabbing)

5% waiting 5-10 minutes in a que, finally getting into a game and before it even loads i hear A PLAYER HAS LEFT THE GAME

5% of my time spent while the game is frozen after clicking various menus (60+ seconds while the game loads, 20+ seconds sometimes while clicking internet menus, custom game, skirmish etc..)

5% getting into a game thats 1v1 or 2v2

They can complain all they want, but when they release broken products it just makes people pirate it more - I know I regret purchasing it so far

If it's broken because pirates are connecting, maybe it shouldn't be communicating with their servers every time someone clicks a button or looks at their screen

I just want to click the matchmaking and play within 5~ minutes

the game is really fun, but playing against AI / staring at the menus is not

Do you think the technical issues could be attributed to conflict between your pirated copy and your "bought" copy?

 

[Aselith]

God I fucking hate Kotaku. The only reason Brad Wardell brought up piracy was to explain why they were having day-1 server issues. That's it.

He wasn't complaining about sales.
He wasn't talking about DRM.
He wasn't talking about PC gaming.

He does not say that 18,000 people have purchased the game. He says that 18,000 people tried to connect on the first day. Very big, important difference.

The thousands of people who played the beta probably wouldn't care about playing on the first day.
Not every person who buys the game has a chance to play on the first day, or wants to.

Furthermore, the fact that they considered their original planned ~50,000 peak capacity to not be reached for weeks infers that ~18,000 players day-one is right where they expected to be sales-wise.

Kotaku took a positive story about how quickly Gas Powered Games was able to remedy a problematic issue and turn it into a negative story that focuses solely on piracy to continue their sensationalist bullshit ways.

Because it needs to be driven home. Read this man's words.

 

[blitz64]

Fulleffect, I understand your fustration with online play. Stardock has been pretty good at fixing things. More servers, bandwidth, patch fixes. All your issues should be fix in a week or 2. then you'll be able to play a game within minutes. Be patient, yea it sucks to have a sucky online launch but as you already know, the game is addictively fun.

As for WorldWide launch, Demigod is currently available in 5 langauges. Anyone in the world can buy it at impulse and download their favorite language of the game.
Atari is handling their worldwide sales, so I'm not sure why it takes them longer to get them to retail store shelves.

Demigod has no DRM which means anyone can take the CD and install it on their computer. It will not ask for a cdkey during install so you can go ahead and play single player all you want. You can also install it on as many computers as you like and play in LAN mode with your friends.

 

[Slavik81]

To the bottom line of the publisher, yes it's exactly the same. In both cases they get $0. Your impotent sympathy is worth nothing to them.

You can complain about piracy all you want, but it's a constant. It's always there whether it's a huge multi-million dollar epic or a bedroom coded Flash game. Stardock are the most sensible guys out there when it comes to reacting to piracy. They don't really need you to complain about something they've more than budgeted for.

Yes I'm sure the devs love the fact that those people are playing the game without paying.

The only thing that matters to them is how many people pay them to play. The number that play for free or don't buy the game is irrelevant.

Let's look at a hypothetical situation using the numbers in the thread title. Say they can spend 15% more on their game and are choosing between buying copy protecting and buying advertising. If they buy copy protection, they eliminate all pirates and 1 in 50 of the eliminated pirated become an actual sale. Result: 20,040 customers; 0 pirates.
If they buy advertising, they increase piracy by 50% and increase sales by 15%. Result: 20,700 customers, 153,000 pirates.

Which is better for them as a company? Probably the later. The actual numbers I used are bullshit, but they illustrate a point. In the first case you aren't making very different profits than in the second case. The number of pirates is more or less irrelevant. Although, having 170,000 people talking about your game is probably better in the long run than having 20,000 even if your profit for that particular game or time period is unchanged. Not that I'm trying to make that "look, piracy's a good thing!" argument, just that it makes sense to pick your battles in your fights against pirates. Some companies obsess over it until they end up cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Stardock has repeatedly stressed that they design games that people who will pay for games will buy and don't stress over people who'd never buy your games anyways. It's not about how many people pirate your game. It's about how many people buy it.

That argument irritates me so much. If that was really an issue they could buy a copy, never use it and download pirated ones. I've brought Gameboy games I never actually bothered playing because I played them on an emulator because I hate the little screens and buttons. Maybe it's a little naughty, but morally I think it's okay.

If you end up in court, you'll get the same treatment as any of those pirates you don't like despite whatever your personal moral beliefs are.

Personally, I think it's the law that needs to change here, more so than your actions, but still...

 

[Joseph Merrick]

I just realised I've played on a pirate copy, downloaded by a friend. I only realised this because, thanks to reading around here, I found out it isn't available in Europe yet, and my friend hardly seems the type to go through the bother of acquiring the game. Explains why he wouldn't let me play online too. He's a an asswipe and has helped contribute to the shitty experience that proper paying customers have experienced over the past few days. I'm gonna bitch at him for misleading me, but I doubt he's going to give a shit.

The bright side being I am going to pick this up when it hits Europe, the little of it I played has sold me on it and I'd love to get online and play it. Stardock needs support, they have been fantastic.

Your friend isn't necessarily a pirate, he could have bought it from Impulse. Like probably most people have done. Regardless, if you actually buy it he's made an extra sale for the game, so that's nice.

 

[jetjevons]

I pirated the game at first

Uhhh, isn't that sort of thing frowned upon by the GAF Demigods?

 

[Takeda Kenshi]

To the people worried about all the server issues, just WAIT a few weeks for them to clear up the problem. That way your experience won't be tarnished. It's not that tough.

 

[EnjoyIncubus]

PC games are more about long-term sales anyway. That Kotaku story is pretty awful though.

 

[dLMN8R]

Brad Wardell himself clarifies by saying what I was explaining on the first page:

http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewstory&threadid=97552

The infrastructure was designed to handle up to 50,000 of these connections.

But on day 0, there were around 140,000 concurrent users of which 18,000 are validated.

Pirated users can't get updates or play multiplayer but they still touch the servers.

So over the first 24 hours, we had to essentially scrap together a doppleganger of the infrastructure dedicated to Demigod's multiplayer network needs, release an update to legitimate users to point them to it.

The result was that in the first day, day and a half, users couldn't connect to each other (the connection servers would time out) and even the in game experience was horrible getting through menus and such because even a simple HTTP keep alive call (something as simple as a http call to check for the latest version to inform users if there's a new version) would cause the in game UI to hang.

The consequence is two-fold: First, early customers got a TERRRIBLE experience. Second, the reviews (notably Gamespot) based their review on this terrible experience.

Now today, day 3, it's pretty much taken care of. Users are connecting in multiplayer, the servers are pretty responsive and we're adding more in preparation for the weekend.

So once again, big "fuck you" to Kotaku for sensationalizing this, and a big "learn to read, fools" to anyone who thought that 18,000 number in any way represented sales.

Once again: the fact that they considered their original planned ~50,000 peak capacity to not be reached for weeks infers that ~18,000 players day-one is right where they expected to be sales-wise.

 

[Joseph Merrick]

Uhhh, isn't that sort of thing frowned upon by the GAF Demigods?

Uhhh, he said he bought the game.

 

[usea]

I've been playing this for a couple days now, but I haven't tried to get online. I know most people online will be really good at the game, and I'm new to the genre so I've been playing against AI. It's really fun.

I haven't had any issues except tons of graphics corruption, but that's likely my video card which has been dying for about a year now. I was surprised at the lack of a tutorial mode or anything like that. But it didn't take long to get used to everything. I only know 1 demigod so far though (unclean beast)

This game is well worth the purchase, and it's definitely not only for DOTA players. (I'm not one)

 

[spwolf]

God I fucking hate Kotaku. The only reason Brad Wardell brought up piracy was to explain why they were having day-1 server issues. That's it.

He wasn't complaining about sales.
He wasn't talking about DRM.
He wasn't talking about PC gaming.

He does not say that 18,000 people have purchased the game. He says that 18,000 people tried to connect on the first day. Very big, important difference.

The thousands of people who played the beta probably wouldn't care about playing on the first day.
Not every person who buys the game has a chance to play on the first day, or wants to.

Furthermore, the fact that they considered their original planned ~50,000 peak capacity to not be reached for weeks infers that ~18,000 players day-one is right where they expected to be sales-wise.

Kotaku took a positive story about how quickly Gas Powered Games was able to remedy a problematic issue and turn it into a negative story that focuses solely on piracy to continue their sensationalist bullshit ways.

yeah, brad doesnt mind piracy, he loves it... he pays his emplyees with air...air...air.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"yeah, brad doesnt mind piracy, he loves it... he pays his emplyees with air...air...air."


Nowhere in his post does he even come close to even implying what he thinks Brad's feelings on piracy are.

Jesus fucking christ, people.

 

[Joseph Merrick]

yeah, brad doesnt mind piracy, he loves it... he pays his emplyees with air...air...air.

:lol if he wasn't able to make a good living and pay his employees I'm sure he wouldn't still be doing this shit

 

[Aselith]

yeah, brad doesnt mind piracy, he loves it... he pays his emplyees with air...air...air.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Gala...Brought-In-10-Million-in-Revenue-107948.shtml

Stardock just knows how to budget correctly unlike some other companies.

 

[spwolf]

"yeah, brad doesnt mind piracy, he loves it... he pays his emplyees with air...air...air."


Nowhere in his post does he even come close to even implying what he thinks Brad's feelings on piracy are.

Jesus fucking christ, people.

nah, he goes out of his way trying to explain how nowehere did brad post anything against people pirating their games

brad hates pirating as everyone else in the industry, only difference being that he feels like stopping piracy at the risk of offering lower level of service to their paying customers is not worth it... as many of us smaller players in software industry agree. hence no strong (and often troublesome) DRM in Stardock games. Good for Stardock and good for their customers.

i mean they sold 18k copies of the game and 140k people tried to play it, and people think he is fine with it?

 

[Aselith]

nah, he goes out of his way trying to explain how nowehere did brad post anything against people pirating their games

brad hates pirating as everyone else in the industry, only difference being that he feels like stopping piracy at the risk of offering lower level of service to their paying customers is not worth it... as many of us smaller players in software industry agree. hence no strong (and often troublesome) DRM in Stardock games. Good for Stardock and good for their customers.

i mean they sold 18k copies of the game and 140k people tried to play it, and people think he is fine with it?

There's nothing in his post that remotely alludes to Wardell liking or condoning piracy.

 

[Joseph Merrick]

nah, he goes out of his way trying to explain how nowehere did brad post anything against people pirating their games

brad hates pirating as everyone else in the industry, only difference being that he feels like stopping piracy at the risk of offering lower level of service to their paying customers is not worth it... as many of us smaller players in software industry agree. hence no strong (and often troublesome) DRM in Stardock games. Good for Stardock and good for their customers.

i mean they sold 18k copies of the game and 140k people tried to play it, and people think he is fine with it?

:lol you didn't even read the dLMN8R post you quoted. fucking hell, guy.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"i mean they sold 18k copies of the game and 140k people tried to play it, and people think he is fine with it?"


1) Since you clearly cannot read, they did not sell 18k copies. The 18k number is the amount of legitimate *peak* concurrent users. Do you believe every single person who bought the game logged on at the exact same time? Also, have you considered a position at Kotaku?

2) Nobody has said Brad is fine with it (he's clearly not), not dLMN8r, no one. The only thing dLMN8r's post was about was clarifying the difference between kotaku's shit article and what Brad Wardell, himself, actually said and how Kotaku shat it up to make a nice sensationalist title. You didn't read dLMN8r's post at all and if you did, you didn't understand a single word.

 

[spwolf]

"i mean they sold 18k copies of the game and 140k people tried to play it, and people think he is fine with it?"


1) Since you clearly cannot read, they did not sell 18k copies. The 18k number is the amount of legitimate *peak* concurrent users. Do you believe every single person who bought the game logged on at the exact same time? Also, have you considered a position at Kotaku?

2) Nobody has said Brad is fine with it (he's clearly not), not dLMN8r, no one. The only thing dLMN8r's post was about was clarifying the difference between kotaku's shit article and what Brad Wardell, himself, actually said and how Kotaku shat it up to make a nice sensationalist title. You didn't read dLMN8r's post at all and if you did, you didn't understand a single word.

this is not court of law - brad did not accuse anyone of anything. But he is pointing out that day 1, they had 18k valid users and 122k pirates accessing their servers which killed the experience for everyone. What do you think he feels about that? Thrilled?

dLMN8r's post was about how brad wasnt complaining about pirates. What does that even mean?

what does he have to do to complain about pirates, sue them? Scream in rage on CNN?

Stardock can not change world stance on piracy and they are not trying to. They know they gain nothing with it. So they dont go around complaining about it, but work around it like most other companies. Of course, this was another way of subtly making people feel guilty about it too.

And also, Stardocks clarification of Kotaku article had nothing to say about how Kotaku wrote about pirating but rather:
1. that 18k is number of "concurrent users", which they think is great number.
2. pirates ruined experience for everone
3. that reviews were based on bad experience due to pirating.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

God I fucking hate Kotaku. The only reason Brad Wardell brought up piracy was to explain why they were having day-1 server issues. That's it.

He wasn't complaining about sales.
He wasn't talking about DRM.
He wasn't talking about PC gaming.

He does not say that 18,000 people have purchased the game. He says that 18,000 people tried to connect on the first day. Very big, important difference.

The thousands of people who played the beta probably wouldn't care about playing on the first day.
Not every person who buys the game has a chance to play on the first day, or wants to.

Furthermore, the fact that they considered their original planned ~50,000 peak capacity to not be reached for weeks infers that ~18,000 players day-one is right where they expected to be sales-wise.

Kotaku took a positive story about how quickly Gas Powered Games was able to remedy a problematic issue and turn it into a negative story that focuses solely on piracy to continue their sensationalist bullshit ways.

This.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"this is not court of law - brad did not accuse anyone of anything. But he is pointing out that day 1, they had 18k valid users and 122k pirates accessing their servers which killed the experience for everyone. What do you think he feels about that? Thrilled?"


I'm asking this in all sincerity: Are you incapable of comprehending what I and dLMN8R have said? Again, obviously, Brad is not thrilled. Nobody said he was. That's not even the *point*.


"dLMN8r's post was about how brad wasnt complaining about pirates. What does that even mean?"

No, he doesn't say that at all, read it again.

 

[spwolf]

This.

yeah except for this:

The only reason Brad Wardell brought up piracy was to explain why they were having day-1 server issues. That's it.

I am not so sure thats the only reason Brad brought up piracy. And in fact, if you look at follow up from Stardock, nowhere did they mention Kotaku sensionalistic take on pirating.

 

[Minsc]

I pirated the game at first, checked it out, was fun, so i went and grabbed it off impulse..

I've had buyers remorse ever since, I can say I've prolly spent

70% of my time trying to get into games,

10% of my time playing on hamachi likely with pirates,

5% of my time cntrl alt deleting the game/crashing (likely because i can only sit staring at a menu screen while trying to get a game and end up alt tabbing)

5% waiting 5-10 minutes in a que, finally getting into a game and before it even loads i hear A PLAYER HAS LEFT THE GAME

5% of my time spent while the game is frozen after clicking various menus (60+ seconds while the game loads, 20+ seconds sometimes while clicking internet menus, custom game, skirmish etc..)

5% getting into a game thats 1v1 or 2v2

They can complain all they want, but when they release broken products it just makes people pirate it more - I know I regret purchasing it so far

If it's broken because pirates are connecting, maybe it shouldn't be communicating with their servers every time someone clicks a button or looks at their screen

I just want to click the matchmaking and play within 5~ minutes

the game is really fun, but playing against AI / staring at the menus is not

Sigh. Why? You're better than that, or you at least should aspire to be better. I knew I hated these threads for a reason.

Even if all other kinds (music, tv shows, software) of piracy slide here, I am at least grateful gaming piracy is treated with an iron fist. I just don't enjoy forums where people are stealing games, reminds me of another thread I read elsewhere, where half the members thought it was perfectly fine to pirate any game no longer available at retail.

 

[HK-47]

Sigh. Why? You're better than that, or you at least should aspire to be better. I knew I hated these threads for a reason.

Even if all other kinds (music, tv shows, software) of piracy slide here, I am at least grateful gaming piracy is treated with an iron fist. I just don't enjoy forums where people are stealing games, reminds me of another thread I read elsewhere, where half the members thought it was perfectly fine to pirate any game no longer available at retail.

He explained why he pirated it after the comma, Minsc. Free demo

 

[Minsc]

He explained why he pirated it after the comma, Minsc. Free demo

Aye, but 'tis a dark path to go down, even for the strong.

But now, in the back of my mind, I can't help but to entertain the possibility that Stardock would actually encourage what he did to other people wondering about the game. They're a pretty progressive company from what I understand.

See? Already doubt sinks in it's teeth, I'm too weak to contemplate this much further, as I've no desire to convince myself it's ok to start downloading games before I buy them if there's no demo, as that will inevitably just lead further.

 

[Chiggs]

Typical pc elitists being typically obtuse about piracy and its effect on their precious platform. Because of this incident, I predict no games will be released for the pc this year.

*hugs PS3 and Xbox*