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[koss424]

The armor with the rather obvious alt right imagery. That is proof enough.

Internet detective work as not gone over very well in recent years. This certainaly looks terrible for the artist here but none of us here knows what happened. I mean maybe they were fooled by a friend that suggested an interesting design to them and had the wool pulled over their eyes just like the publisher. It's an unlikely scenario and I get that.

But this is up to the publisher and their employees to make right at this point. If we don't agree we can not purchase their products.

 

[Dylan Sexbang]

Settle down buddy

Nah dawg, I don't approve of job lynch mobs unless there is undeniable proof. In fact, if there is without a doubt that someone is a racists subhuman prick, then by all means, let the company get rid of them freely

But that isn't the case here.

 

[Alucrid]

Nah dawg, I don't approve of job lynch mobs unless theirs is undeniable proof. In fact, if there is without a doubt that someone is a racists subhuman prick, then by all means, let the company get rid of them freely

But that isn't the case here.

how can it be a job "lynch mob" (tasteless) when no one even knows who the artist is?

 

[PSYGN]

As a designer I really do feel there's still a chance that it's an honest mistake, because I could see myself accidentally creating it and I've never heard of Kekistan until this thread. The K letter's form lends itself to being flipped; look up "KK monogram" and you will see it's a common design pattern. The typography of this logo in Destiny is futuristic, and in futuristic type you often have the letter E split into triple bars or otherwise having a piece of that letter floating/broken off. Look up "futuristic typeface". As a designer, I would probably go with the triple bars between the two letters because it lends itself to being ambigramic and ambigrams look cool. With that said, if it was coincidence then they failed terribly in doing the ol' designer Google look up to (a) Know that your work is original and (b) That it doesn't stand for anything terrible.

Again, I've never heard of Kekistan until now - they can go fuck themselves. I'm just trying to give a designer's perspective on how it could have arrived to this design without any sinister intention. I am not an apologist. I can imagine that if I were not a creative then this would 100% without a doubt be a blatant homage to the racist group, but as a designer having had to work within certain constraints (ie futuristic) I can imagine myself accidentally creating this were I dumb enough to not research the letter combination ahead of time. So yes, they should take the blame for not doing the research, but firing the guy? Only if they can prove that it was intentionally done. For all we know the designer didn't intend on the four bars between the two K's to represent an E. Is it literally spelled out as KEK in the descriptions anywhere?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Read my post in the context of which I was responding. Some people seem absolutely appalled that some of us have never seen that symbol. And it was only once the symbol was directly shown in this thread that I could even KNOW the comparison at hand. My comment about not being able to see the words "KEK" in the armor was a call out to the poster I was responding to (again, context matters here) where they said, "Even if the flag itself is unfamiliar to you, "kek" should stand out as a red flag." that was my point, I completely disagreed that the word stands out or that this symbol SHOULD be recognizable, this is some obscure internet bs.

Agreed. This is pretty obscure. Unless you frequent 4Chan or some shit, I imagine today is your first time seeing it.

To me...that makes it far less likely that it wasn't intentional. You don't get a near match to an alt right meme -- down to the colors, style and fonts -- without AT MINIMUM having seen it somewhere enough times to make a subconscious impression big enough to inspire replication into Destiny 2. So to me the BEST scenario here is that the artist who made this was browsing the net for design inspiration and stole this KEK idea from a random search without inspecting it better for context or origin. I would think this highly unlikely from a professional designer (they should be well versed in the threat of stealing trademarked or copyrighted material on accident and getting sued...well enough to do some basic due diligence and research) and occam's Razor more clearly points to this being an intentional middle finger by some designer to their employer, as a grenade that they knew would detonate later because...as we agree, this shit is too obscure for 90% of GAF before today and the gaming public generally...but someone somewhere would notice long after they're gone.

 

[Vigilant Gambit]

I've heard of all your examples except the ok symbol. What's up with that one?

Here you go.

Nah dawg, I don't approve of job lynch mobs unless there is undeniable proof. In fact, if there is without a doubt that someone is a racists subhuman prick, then by all means, let the company get rid of them freely

But that isn't the case here.

2017 is not the year to be careful about punishing those who use Nazi symbolism. It got into the game, and then got into the news. Make no mistake: the damage has been done. A Nazi who might not have ever even seen it in-game might see one of those posts and go "Wow! We even have Nazis at Bungie! Awesome!" and feel that much more comfortable about his shitty beliefs.

This is why the response by Bungie is so critical, and why I'm so upset that all they're doing is taking it out of the game. Nazis expect that much. If Bungie doesn't at least fire the idiot responsible, then they're saying a lot of fucked-up shit without saying it.

Edit:

how can it be a job "lynch mob" (tasteless) when no one even knows who the artist is?

Jesus, I missed that he said lynch mob.

An 8-year-old kid literally just got lynched. God damn it, man.

 

[shintoki]

Wasn't kek used in WoW for years as lol?

Because, I just learned something new today then.

 

[Dylan Sexbang]

how can it be a job "lynch mob" (tasteless) when no one even knows who the artist is?

There were multiple people in this thread asking to publicly out the dude, and announce their firing. And I'm of firm belief that, without proper due process no one has the right to ask of that- and think it's inane to demand it, and rather let Bungie/ATVI handle it- especially because I have strong belief in Bungie's values as a company. If they find the offender guilty, then they'll take care of it- and if they feel fit to announce the firing if found guilty under the circumstances, then they will do what is right within their power.

2017 is not the year to be careful about punishing those who use Nazi symbolism. It got into the game, and then got into the news. Make no mistake: the damage has been done. A Nazi who might not have ever even seen it in-game might see one of those posts and go "Wow! We even have Nazis at Bungie! Awesome!" and feel that much more comfortable about his shitty beliefs.

This is why the response by Bungie is so critical, and why I'm so upset that all they're doing is taking it out of the game. Nazis expect that much. If Bungie doesn't at least fire the idiot responsible, then they're saying a lot of fucked-up shit without saying it.

The similarity was acknowledged, and patched out- (super freaking quick considering how long it takes for their balances patches)- which already shows that they won't stand for anything that could even vaguely represent something that goes against their morals. Anything further is for Bungie to resolve, and for Bungie to handle. If guilty, I'm under the impression that the offender will be launched into the sun via giant slingshot (or terminated).

 

[Slayven]

It is apparent what this is, this isn't some hundred monkeys with typewriters accidentally creating Shakespeare.

 

[thepotatoman]

I've heard of all your examples except the ok symbol. What's up with that one?

Instead of your pointer and thumb being an 'O' it's your pointer thumb and arm being a 'P' and instead of your other three fingers being the 'K', it's a 'W'.

WP = white power. I guess supposedly it was used in prison gangs or something like that, someone from the left reported on it, and now they're mostly co-opting it because they love the idea of taking things away from people that don't share their ideology as some sort of troll.

Kinda like how hillaryclinton.com calling Pepe a white nationalist symbol kinda sealed the deal on people in the movement taking that as their defining icon when at the time it was still kinda just a coincidence that the alt rights were mostly recluse internet memelords.

 

[Alucrid]

There were multiple people in this thread asking to publicly out the dude, and announce their firing. And I'm of firm belief that, without proper due process no one has the right to ask of that- and think it's inane to demand it, and rather let Bungie/ATVI handle it- especially because I have strong belief in Bungie's values as a company. If they find the offender guilty, then they'll take care of it- and if they feel fit to announce the firing if found guilty under the circumstances, then they will do what is right within their power.

okay, but how is that a witch hunt let alone a lynch mob? asking or hoping for them to be fired ain't either of those things.

 

[shintoki]

WP = white power. I guess supposedly it was used in prison gangs or something like that, someone from the left reported on it, and now they're mostly co-opting it because they love the idea of taking things away from people that don't share their ideology as some sort of troll.

I'm really feeling out of date with this shit now. WP was Well Played like 10 years ago.

 

[King Tubby]

I don't really know anything about that symbol, but it'd be a mighty big coincidence if they're not connected.

 

[Audioboxer]

As a designer I really do feel there's still a chance that it's an honest mistake, because I could see myself accidentally creating it and I've never heard of Kekistan until this thread. The K letter's form lends itself to being flipped; look up "KK monogram" and you will see it's a common design pattern. The typography of this logo in Destiny is futuristic, and in futuristic type you often have the letter E split into triple bars or otherwise having a piece of that letter floating/broken off. Look up "futuristic typeface". As a designer, I would probably go with the triple bars between the two letters because it lends itself to being ambigramic and ambigrams look cool. With that said, if it was coincidence then they failed terribly in doing the ol' designer Google look up to (a) Know that your work is original and (b) That it doesn't stand for anything terrible.

Again, I've never heard of Kekistan until now - they can go fuck themselves. I'm just trying to give a designer's perspective on how it could have arrived to this design without any sinister intention. I am not an apologist. I can imagine that if I were not a creative then this would 100% without a doubt be a blatant homage to the racist group, but as a designer having had to work within certain constraints (ie futuristic) I can imagine myself accidentally creating this were I dumb enough to not research the letter combination ahead of time. So yes, they should take the blame for not doing the research, but firing the guy? Only if they can prove that it was intentionally done. For all we know the designer didn't intend on the four bars between the two K's to represent an E. Is it literally spelled out as KEK in the descriptions anywhere?

The actual kek flag has 3 bars in it so ironically that would make things even worse. They go up the way though, not across the way. Having 4 bars is what makes it slightly different here, as well as the orientation. 3 bars can resemble an E, 4 bars resembles... 4 bars. Your post while insightful will probably be overlooked. If you were the artist in this case it would already be decided by many you were to be fired. Irrespective of you making a mistake, backed up by any design philosophies/typography and not even knowing what kek stands for these days.

 

[thepotatoman]

I'm really feeling out of date with this shit now. WP was Well Played like 10 years ago.

Oh, don't say that! It still is. Don't give them any ideas.

Just in this context of the hand gesture that's what it supposedly means.

 

[Dylan Sexbang]

okay, but how is that a witch hunt let alone a lynch mob? asking or hoping for them to be fired ain't either of those things.

Group of people, asking to take away someone's career, without even knowing the full facts. It's absurd. Hence the term "job lynch mob". Let it be handled properly- because it will. This isn't the police union where they all have each other's back- Bungie is under ATVI, and ATVI has people to answer to. This will be handled properly, and no one should be demanding anyone's job without full grasp of the information

 

[molnizzle]

At Bungie? Yes.

I have personally seen the flag online at least twice in the last week. Even if the flag itself is unfamiliar to you, "kek" should stand out as a red flag.

Blatant racism is not that rare on the internet. Not anymore. And rarely does it show itself without that imagery. A Pepe, an OK hand sign emoji. The Kekistan flag. Calling someone "cuck" or "snowflake." And so on.

I mean... are you out there looking for it? I've never heard of this "kekistan" shit either. I remember "kek" from World of Warcraft but that's about it.

This isn't some common thing that most people would know. I imagine there's an asshole artist who snuck this in the game, but I can't fault his bosses for not knowing they were looking at a hate symbol. Most people don't go out of their way to stay on top of the latest alt right fuckery.

 

[BigDes]

Group of people, asking to take away someone's career, without even knowing the full facts. It's absurd. Hence the term "job lynch mob". Let it be handled properly- because it will. This isn't the police union where they all have each other's back- Bungie is under ATVI, and ATVI has people to answer to. This will be handled properly, and no one should be demanding anyone's job without full grasp of the information

What exactly do you think we are going to do?

 

[Alucrid]

Group of people, asking to take away someone's career, without even knowing the full facts. It's absurd. Hence the term "job lynch mob". Let it be handled properly- because it will. This isn't the police union where they all have each other's back- Bungie is under ATVI, and ATVI has people to answer to. This will be handled properly, and no one should be demanding anyone's job without full grasp of the information

you do know people in actual lynch mobs didn't just ask for black people to be hung, right?

 

[Vicetrailia]

I don't really know anything about that symbol, but it'd be a mighty big coincidence if they're not connected.

Trump is always doing the ok thing, and nazis made something of it again.

 

[D i Z]

What exactly do you think we are going to do?

Gonna get all riled up and pound out some angry tweets!!!!!

 

[King Tubby]

Trump is always doing the ok thing, and nazis made something of it again.

I meant Kekistan. I know about the "ok" gesture. A lot of alt-right types have become rather fond of it.

 

[BigDes]

Gonna get all riled up and pound out some angry tweets!!!!!

Oh man the angriest tweets. Gonna misspell my words and everything

 

[SmiteOfHand]

It is apparent what this is, this isn't some hundred monkeys with typewriters accidentally creating Shakespeare.

It really is. The hurdles some folks are trying to leap to attribute it to coincidence really is something.

 

[Kenai]

Wasn't kek used in WoW for years as lol?

Because, I just learned something new today then.

If a Horde types "lol" in say and an Alliance member sees it, it reads as "Orcish:kek" yea.

Makes me really sad that it's got a supremacist affiliation now.

 

[7DollarHagane]

As a designer I really do feel there's still a chance that it's an honest mistake, because I could see myself accidentally creating it and I've never heard of Kekistan until this thread. The K letter's form lends itself to being flipped; look up "KK monogram" and you will see it's a common design pattern. The typography of this logo in Destiny is futuristic, and in futuristic type you often have the letter E split into triple bars or otherwise having a piece of that letter floating/broken off. Look up "futuristic typeface". As a designer, I would probably go with the triple bars between the two letters because it lends itself to being ambigramic and ambigrams look cool. With that said, if it was coincidence then they failed terribly in doing the ol' designer Google look up to (a) Know that your work is original and (b) That it doesn't stand for anything terrible.

Again, I've never heard of Kekistan until now - they can go fuck themselves. I'm just trying to give a designer's perspective on how it could have arrived to this design without any sinister intention. I am not an apologist. I can imagine that if I were not a creative then this would 100% without a doubt be a blatant homage to the racist group, but as a designer having had to work within certain constraints (ie futuristic) I can imagine myself accidentally creating this were I dumb enough to not research the letter combination ahead of time. So yes, they should take the blame for not doing the research, but firing the guy? Only if they can prove that it was intentionally done. For all we know the designer didn't intend on the four bars between the two K's to represent an E. Is it literally spelled out as KEK in the descriptions anywhere?

There's a definite similarity but it's also a common design trope and typeface design for "futuristic" designs.

It's good that bungie removed it because it could offend some people but I don't think there's need for a public shaming of some employee. Let them handle it as a business matter.

I'm inclined to believe it's an unfortunate similarity that nobody there even knew of until they were told. Not everything is a sinister plot by 4channers to inflitrate society.

 

[NoHeDidn't]

Regardless of opinions on purposeful or not I applaud Bungie for getting ahead of this issue and rectifying it.To me that alone speaks volumes anywwys there are so many other designs they can use (or reuse lol).


Also just wanna say it does my heart good to see most of my fellow gamers and gaffers condeming this BS we cant stay silent on certain things.

 

[Dylan Sexbang]

What exactly do you think we are going to do?

I'm not saying you're going to do anything, but how you gonna ask for someone's job without the full details? Innocent until proven guilty. Does it make you feel righteous? A saint to fight against a cause without the full facts, to make baseless demands of public outing and firing without a case? Then why- Bungie has done the right thing so far, and have faith in them to continue to resolve it appropriately and justly. Like I've said multiple times, Bungie has proven them to be a company with good values and good morals- and I expect them to treat the whole situation with the best intentions forward.

(And I base Bungie's values off of every single one of their charity events that I have participated in since the Japan quake relief in 2011)

you do know people in actual lynch mobs didn't just ask for black people to be hung, right?

This is totes irrelevant.

 

[Chindogg]

Wasn't kek used in WoW for years as lol?

Because, I just learned something new today then.

Orcish would translate lol into kek. Since horde players were mostly shitbag trolls it became a term outside of the game.

 

[SanguineShark]

Why is it always the ones with the anime avatars?

Good on Bungie for addressing it quickly. Really doubt* they put this out knowingly, but the artist does deserve to be fired.

 

[molnizzle]

Orcish would translate lol into kek. Since horde players were mostly shitbag trolls it became a term outside of the game.

I'll see you in Warsong Gulch.

 

[Dylan Sexbang]

Orcish would translate lol into kek. Since horde players were mostly shitbag trolls it became a term outside of the game.

Yo- let's not pretend Gnome and Female Nelf Rogue's aren't some of the biggest tools in existence.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

The end of the article is relevant right now in this thread

The entire cartoonish nature of modern white supremacist symbolism is to make clear, sincere statements of belief that believers can then turn around and masquerade as an edgy joke.

But that's a shell game where in the name of fairness someone can be asked to provide endless proof of what is evident to the naked eye. It's a way to make victims and targets seem ridiculous while their abusers and assailants are portrayed as mere jesters from the court of internet dadaism, with no connection to real-world harassment and violence.

It's how the unspeakable and shameful has become commonplace in this moment, and we cannot continue to buy the innocent explanations for actions with a clear, violent intent.

 

[Mechanized]

Glad they're removing it so quick. I've only heard of it from WoW, and only heard people referencing it as a replacement for "lol". Never heard of this meaning before.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Laughing at serious use of lynch mob in a thread about a white supremacy symbol possibly snuck into a game

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

The end of the article is relevant right now in this thread

Yup. Needs to be repeated and quoted at everyone still attempting the whole "But we don't know their intent!" excuse. Plausible Deniability has long since been a weapon of these subhumans, and you're either falling for it or are an active participant in the gaslighting.

 

[Alucrid]

Laughing at serious use of lynch mob in a thread about a white supremacy symbol possibly snuck into a game

totes

 

[D i Z]

Laughing at serious use of lynch mob in a thread about a white supremacy symbol possibly snuck into a game

Awareness.

 

[jellies_two]

Yeah since only bungee knows who it is the calls for a firing are of course filtered through them. There is an implied "if" here, if Bungie believe it wasn't an accident they should fire someone. Preferably quietly without releasing the name of the employee so they don't get publically destroyed on top of the actual punishment of losing their job.

 

[striferser]

Yeah since only bungee knows who it is the calls for a firing are of course filtered through them. There is an implied "if" here, if Bungie believe it wasn't an accident they should fire someone. Preferably quietly without releasing the name of the employee so they don't get publically destroyed on top of the actual punishment of losing their job.

There's also a chances the one who make it is outsourced. So they could at least inform otber studio to be cautious when hiring outsource

 

[Tecnniqe]

Wasn't kek used in WoW for years as lol?

Because, I just learned something new today then.

When the horde typed "lol" in chat alliance would see "kek" as the languages are different

 

[yanipheonu]

There's also a chances the one who make it is outsourced. So they could at least inform otber studio to be cautious when hiring outsource

Worth noting this is entirely possible. They've outsourced armor designs before.

 

[jiiikoo]

That’s way too close to be a coincidence. Hopefully they sack the person responsible.

 

[Vigilant Gambit]

There were multiple people in this thread asking to publicly out the dude, and announce their firing. And I'm of firm belief that, without proper due process no one has the right to ask of that- and think it's inane to demand it, and rather let Bungie/ATVI handle it- especially because I have strong belief in Bungie's values as a company. If they find the offender guilty, then they'll take care of it- and if they feel fit to announce the firing if found guilty under the circumstances, then they will do what is right within their power.


The similarity was acknowledged, and patched out- (super freaking quick considering how long it takes for their balances patches)- which already shows that they won't stand for anything that could even vaguely represent something that goes against their morals. Anything further is for Bungie to resolve, and for Bungie to handle. If guilty, I'm under the impression that the offender will be launched into the sun via giant slingshot (or terminated).

That is not enough. The Nazis know that anything that isn't dog whistled won't fly. And they know that when they get discovered, they're forced by the court of public opinion to do and say certain things, like patch the offending symbol out of the game. That's why when Trump refuses to immediately repudiate David Duke when he says "vote for Trump, or you're a traitor to your race, white people," making up some excuse about not knowing who he was, then later, begrudgingly repudiating him, they go "See? He didn't immediately repudiate us! He loves us!" The same shit will be happening if Bungie doesn't go hard in opposing this shit, and that means firing the individual responsible for putting the image in the game. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

I mean... are you out there looking for it? I've never heard of this "kekistan" shit either. I remember "kek" from World of Warcraft but that's about it.

This isn't some common thing that most people would know. I imagine there's an asshole artist who snuck this in the game, but I can't fault his bosses for not knowing they were looking at a hate symbol. Most people don't go out of their way to stay on top of the latest alt right fuckery.

Looking for... Did you really just ask me if I willingly immerse myself in online Nazi shitholes looking for racist memes? I don't have to be "out there" anymore. The two times I can recall seeing the kekistan flag recently are on Twitter and during a Rocket League match, in someone's Steam avatar.

 

[Unfriendly TimeTraveler]

Damn I have the gauntlets and they are a decent design but after looking at them with this context they are now ruined. Hopefully the word is changed cause I overall like the look.

I see at my work a lot of people in the bathrooms putting kek on the stalls and I didn't know what It meant but assumed it had to be some Reddit/4chan thing with darker meanings.

 

[DeadManWalking]

when the fuck did kek become a white supremacist thing?

Since someone with their own agenda is informing others about thing they have no idea about.

 

[Bigfoot]

That’s way too close to be a coincidence. Hopefully they sack the person responsible.

It's good that Bungie removed it but firing the person is going to far. There is reasonable doubt that it is a copy of the flag. I see enough differences like the 4 stripes and the I after the K. Investigate the guy for sure but if there is no evidence he is a white supremacist than he shouldn't be fired. We don't even know if the guy is white. He could be another race for all we know.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Damn I have the gauntlets and they are a decent design but after looking at them with this context they are now ruined. Hopefully the word is changed cause I overall like the look.

I see at my work a lot of people in the bathrooms putting kek on the stalls and I didn't know what It meant but assumed it had to be some Reddit/4chan thing with darker meanings.

Well if you google kek you'll find out it means "lol" and came from WoW due to the difference in language between the factions. Simply saying your work friends might just be writing lol in a weird way cause many do and it's not necessarily connected to 4chan/kekistan.

It's sad if the word becomes associated with white supremacy as it'll probably get removed in the game as well.

 

[GLAMr]

On a positive note, it shouldn't be hard to find the one angry, straight, white dude in a game dev studio.

 

[katsais]

Yeah since only bungee knows who it is the calls for a firing are of course filtered through them. There is an implied "if" here, if Bungie believe it wasn't an accident they should fire someone. Preferably quietly without releasing the name of the employee so they don't get publically destroyed on top of the actual punishment of losing their job.

Bungie should definitely not keep it quiet. The offense was done publicly, and Bungie needs to let it's patronage know that they won't stand for such vile audacity. "Just" removing it is not good enough IMO. I'm not asking for the name of the artist, but they should definitely let the public know that the person(s) were discipline (firing should be the only option).

Just removing it is not good enough. Otherwise, I will be thinking that the internal mentality at Bungie may condone such act. They may also try to just keep quiet to avoid bad PR.