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[Prithee Be Careful]

I'm not trying to tell anyone what to be passionate about.

And "just don't buy it" is a non-argument.

Take it from somebody who's worked in the publishing side of this industry for coming up on a decade: lost sales are a far, far bigger concern for large corporates than complaints. Complaints will be lucky to even get escalated to head office, PR teams will almost never engage with online furore, knowing how short-lived a newsbeat is in 2017, and as long as the graph lines keep going up, they'll keep doing what they doing.

They only way you can hurt them, is by hitting that bottom line.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

By other people, are you referring to Activision/Bungie? I will answer with that assumption.

Destiny is a game built around its tight-knit community. It is the most important aspect of the franchise and Bungie is aware of that- and because it is so important, so is feedback. If you take a look at Bungie's Destiny forums, you will see an expansive feedback section that is even broke down into different categories dependant on the feedback being given.

The community has very clearly responded to this out of both frustration and love for the franchise. They don't want to see this direction taken for the franchise.

Do they have the right to express that dismay? Ofcourse they do, even Bungie recognizes that, so why can't you?

I entirely recognise that right, they are free to make as many complaints as they chose, I'm simply arguing that Bungie/Activision are under no obligation to take it on board or change. If they don't, becuase profit margins matter more, then at that point, you have to walk away and stop giving them money.

If enough people do, they'll rethink the practise, because nothing put the fear of god into them more that lost revenue...

How does one differentiate a lost sake due to micro transactions Vs game style/genre? Or lootbox distate Vs main protag gender?

Without feedback aren't you just ignoring the actual reasoning for lost sales?

You probably don't appreciate just how much data these companies are farming. Business intelligence is one of the highest paid departments in modern AAA publishing for a reason: the data you can collect on player behaviour is immese and informs the entire publishing industry, because it's far more comprehensive and reliable that any customer survey you can create. If this were to start effecting the bottom line, they'd know.

 

[Papo Swing]

Do you work for said business? Your defensiveness makes no sense from a consumer standpoint.

This shit again...I guess you don';t understand how businesses work. I do not work for them and I am not defending them I am taking the reasonable response to their criticism and agreeing with it. I feel it is valid since I have been playing the game since Wednesday and I have seen a ton more shader drops that I've consumed.

Do you expect Bungie not to try to make money from the monetization system they set up way back in Destiny 1? This argument also make no sense from a consumer standpoint since they fail to acknowledge something that was and has been there for a while. People agreed with silver back then and it was worse implemented that it is now. Everyone also knew about MTs for this game so no surprises there either.

Thats the problem, now it is don't use any shaders until you get your final/optimal set of gear. Unlike the first game, where when you had a shader it was yours forever and you could use it all the time. That ruins the fun of them. I don't care how frequently they drop, if they drop frequently enough to the point its not an issue, why even make them consumable? It is a bad decision for the consumer no matter how you look at it. It is not reasonable. Not sure why you are defending them over a bad choice.

Why does everyone think I am defending them? I am just ok with it since I see a ton of shaders drop from regular play. Being ok with something and trying to make sense of it when I see people overreacting is not defending them.

I also did not say do not use any shader at all, just don't use them regularly.

I can give you a counterpoint. In Destiny 1 the cool emotes where behind a pay wall. In Destiny 2 a lot of them, if not all, seem to be free. That is a change for the postiive.

The whole game's economy changed, they made a decision here and I am not defending it, but I also don't think it is as big a you and other are making it out. How can shaders not be fun just because you can change them infinetly every minute? You can preview them so you see what they are without having to waste them. Isn't that good enough of a change?

I also say wait for the raid to see hwo they handle those and if some shaders may be a collection or not.

I'm not trying to tell anyone what to be passionate about.

And "just don't buy it" is a non-argument.

Then what about just play the game you'll get a ton of shaders normally without having to stress a lot? I'm level 20 and have just used like 3 shaders users. I still have over 10 shaders with multiple uses.

 

[Doc_Drop]

Take it from somebody who's worked in the publishing side of this industry for coming up on a decade: lost sales are a far, far bigger concern for large corporates than complaints. Complaints will be lucky to even get escalated to head office, PR teams will almost never engage with online furore, knowing how short-lived a newsbeat is in 2017, and as long as the graph lines keep going up, they'll keep doing what they doing.

They only way you can hurt them, is by hitting that bottom line.

How does one differentiate a lost sale due to micro transactions Vs game style/genre? Or lootbox distate Vs main protag gender?

Without feedback aren't you just ignoring the actual reasoning for lost sales?

 

[RichiRamjag]

How does one differentiate a lost sale due to micro transactions Vs game style/genre? Or lootbox distate Vs main protag gender?

Without feedback aren't you just ignoring the actual reasoning for lost sales?

Feedback infringes on the freedoms of the majority, so why would they want something like that?

 

[PhantomThief]

You probably don't appreciate just how much data these companies are farming. Business intelligence is one of the highest paid departments in modern AAA publishing for a reason.

How do they know if someone doesn't buy the game because it has f2p lootboxes vs someone who has genuinly no interest in a title if a consumer that does this never lets them know either way?

What data are they farming, brain waves?

 

[Mesoian]

No I don't, but if all games makers choose to go that way and the majority of consumers are okay with it, do I have a right, as the minority to tell companies how to make thier games and consumers when and if to buy them just becuase I think it's scummy as shit.


I think the answer is no, sadly, because then I'd be dictating somebody else freedoms based on my own moral conscience. I hate that, because I detest these loathsome practises as much as anyone else, but it's the way the cookie crumbles.

PFFT.

Jesus. Of course, you do. What are you even talking about?

How do they know if someone doesn't buy the game because it has f2p lootboxes vs someone who has genuinly no interest in a title if a consumer that does this never lets them know either way?

What data are they farming, brain waves?

Social Market Research, prepurchase surveys, there's a gigantic litany of data they're collecting on this stuff, he's not wrong. The consumer is not only letting them know, they're getting paid to do it.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

How do they know if someone doesn't buy the game because it has f2p lootboxes vs someone who has genuinly no interest in a title if a consumer that does this never lets them know either way?

What data are they farming, brain waves?

If it puts off players already in your eco-system, that's easily monitored. For those outside you have powerful online tools that measure sentiment and buzz across all forms of social media and entire agencies dedicated to monitoring and reporting on this stuff for larger clients. I know this cause I regularly read exactly those kinds of reports.

Bottom line is, gettng back to the point, nothign you can do will piss off a company more than not buying their products - particularly if you're in their target demographic. If enough people do that and they identify an entire segment abstaining from purchase, they decide whether there'll be a reasonable ROI for making changes. If not, then it stays.

So we absolutely should discuss these issues that we find abhorrent to bring light to the issues....

Absolutely, that wasn't the trust of the arguement though, you'll have to follow the coversation way back to the start - I was defending somebody else.

 

[Doc_Drop]

If it puts off players already in your eco-system, that's easily monitored. For those outside you have powerful online tools that measure sentiment and buzz across all forms of social media and entire agencies dedicated to monitoring and reporting on this stuff for larger clients. I know this cause I regularly read exactly those kinds of reports.

So we absolutely should discuss these issues that we find abhorrent to bring light to the issues....

 

[Audioboxer]

Take it from somebody who's worked in the publishing side of this industry for coming up on a decade: lost sales are a far, far bigger concern for large corporates than complaints. Complaints will be lucky to even get escalated to head office, PR teams will almost never engage with online furore, knowing how short-lived a newsbeat is in 2017, and as long as the graph lines keep going up, they'll keep doing what they doing.

They only way you can hurt them, is by hitting that bottom line.

Internet "outrage" can work. The Diablo 3 AH got pulled and the Xbox One DRM is obviously the biggest industry takedown to this day. You're mostly right though, if the bottom line isn't getting hurt the devs and pubs usually just push through the anger till it subdues.

 

[groansey]

It's a weird comparison but with Siege cosmetic items costing real money is what makes them appealing. Same with SFV costumes.

If they were free and commonly available no-one would give a shit. Expense and rarity is an appealing combination to throw extra money at a game, despite it obviously being a complete waste.

I've put 200 hrs into a game along with others and when they watch a game from my viewpoint I want them to be like "this guy has a cool loadout" idk - have the marketing men bent me over a barrel?

 

[Omegasquash]

So we absolutely should discuss these issues that we find abhorrent to bring light to the issues....

Discuss, for sure. But not purchasing is still the single biggest signal that can be sent.

It would be interesting to see data after a month or so to find out what shaders sold, how many were burned, etc.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

Discuss, for sure. But not purchasing is still the single biggest signal that can be sent.

It would be interesting to see data after a month or so to find out what shaders sold, how many were burned, etc.

Yup, they'll be watching very carefully I imagine and will have been since before this news story broke - it's a gamble, to some degree, and if it doesn't pay off they'll change it, but I doubt they'd do it if the data suggests that most people are buying loot boxes to get shaders.

 

[Doc_Drop]

Discuss, for sure. But not purchasing is still the single biggest signal that can be sent.

It would be interesting to see data after a month or so to find out what shaders sold, how many were burned, etc.

My point was that we were being told that it doesn't matter whether we are voicing our displeasure as only the bottom line mattered. Obviously it's a case of both being important

Edit - it's also annoying that in that context that by not buying it and then complaining why, we are getting people come in and say "well, you clearly didn't play it, so don't complain" (obviously not a direct quote)

 

[Omegasquash]

Yup, they'll be watching very carefully I imagine and will have been since before this news story broke - it's a gamble, to some degree, and if it doesn't pay off they'll change it, but I doubt they'd do it if the data suggests that most people are buying loot boxes to get shaders.

Exactly. If it's making them money, then there's no reason to change things around, in their mind.

My point was that we were being told that it doesn't matter whether we are voicing our displeasure as only the bottom line mattered. Obviously it's a case of both being important

Right. I definitely agree that purchasing a throwaway sucks, and the way that the shaders have been changed to attach to one piece of gear sucks too. It's a pretty obvious cash grab. And it makes me wonder if EA/BioWare is looking at this and twirling their collective mustache with regards to Anthem.

 

[border]

And the real crime is Bungie using gambling mechanics to created a gambling habit in players. For fucks sake, even getting a new subclass is a matter of RNG (gambling simulator). Destiny is a gambling simulator for the most part, mixed with superb shooting mechanics.

This is roughly as dumb as calling Doom a murder simulator.

 

[Geist-]

So let's pressure them to change it into a potentially shittier practice?

The solution here is not make them all free since they banked on the monetization of that part of the game.

There has to be a compromise for all not a free pass for us the players.

Wtf? It's not free, I'm paying full price for to play the game. Why can't shaders be included in that price? Why can't future shaders be included in the expansion's price?

 

[Stranya]

No I don't, but if all games makers choose to go that way and the majority of consumers are okay with it, do I have a right, as the minority to tell companies how to make thier games and consumers when and if to buy them just becuase I think it's scummy as shit.


I think the answer is no, sadly, because then I'd be dictating somebody else freedoms based on my own moral conscience. I hate that, because I detest these loathsome practises as much as anyone else, but it's the way the cookie crumbles.

Noone is talking about "rights", or "dictating" other people's "freedoms".

When people voice their concerns, they aren't dictating anything or stepping on anyone else's freedoms. They are as free to speak as anyone else is to listen (or not listen).

You always have the right to voice your opinion, whether you're in the minority or not.

If you actually meant that people don't have the literal right to force companies to make games a certain way, then no shit.

 

[Interficium]

How come cdpr can make a massively successful game without selling me loot box Geralt armor?

Business fully subsidized/funded by the government. Extremely low cost of labor in poland.

Next question.

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

I posted this in the other thread and just decided to bring it here also:

I'm seeing both sides of the argument and I understand why there are some trying to convince others not to buy this game, because it sets a precedent for publishers to go deeper down the DLC/Lootbox/etc line. However, I don't think there is a way to stop this train other than the game just being plain bad, which it isn't.

For those who are on the fence I suggest simply waiting until all of the DLC releases under a full pack/disc (like what they did with Rise of Iron by including all of the old DLC). For those new to Destiny I personally suggest just playing 1 for now since you'll get all of the content released at a much lower price now. If money is not an issue and you don't mind how things are being handled here, then have a nice time, enjoy your game and future content. Us tearing each other apart over this game doesn't help and it definitely makes everyone here look immature to the publisher.

 

[TyrantII]

Has anyone stopped yet and realized this implementation is actually a lot more player friendly than the MTs in Destiny 1?

MTs suck, I agree. But these engrams are replacing motes of light, of which I had a stockpile of 5000 at the end of Destiny 1. That's with burning thousands in year 1, HoW, and later ranking factions. You're going to get almost everything in the store at that rate.

Honestly, I'm not too worried. Especially since it seems exotic class drop rates are much higher this time around. It seems these MTs are built around the worse whales and streamers, and they won't effect normal players much if at all.

Still, being better than D1 doesn't mean it should be there in the first place. You got my vote for removing them if it was an option.

 

[PhantomThief]

Business fully subsidized/funded by the government. Extremely low cost of labor in poland.

Next question.

I'm sure that's the only reason.

*rolls eyes*

 

[ExVicis]

Has anyone stopped yet and realized this implementation is actually a lot more player friendly than the MTs in Destiny 1?

No because I want permanent goddamn shaders.

 

[Tovarisc]

Business fully subsidized/funded by the government. Extremely low cost of labor in poland.

Next question.

Some good receipts on bolded bit?

 

[Deadstar]

Has anyone stopped yet and realized this implementation is actually a lot more player friendly than the MTs in Destiny 1?

MTs suck, I agree. But these engrams are replacing motes of light, of which I had a stockpile of 5000 at the end of Destiny 1. That's with burning thousands in year 1, HoW, and later ranking factions. You're going to get almost everything in the store at that rate.

Honestly, I'm not too worried. Especially since it seems exotic class drop rates are much higher this time around. It seems these MTs are built around the worse whales and streamers, and they won't effect normal players much if at all.

Still, being better than D1 doesn't mean it should be there in the first place. You got my vote for removing them if it was an option.

It's not friendlier because you can't see how multiple different shaders look on your character without applying them. The only reason these are one time use is because of greed. There's no other reason. If they wanted to make the shaders collectible just make it so that each shader can only be used on one piece of equipment at a time.

So if I want my helmet and boots to have the same white shader, I'd need two white shaders, but they would be UNLIMITED use. If I get a new helmet or boots I can just apply the same two white shaders to my new equipment. This way Bungie can still be greedy and sell shaders and they can also let people grind for them which is what they said they want.

 

[TyrantII]

It's not friendlier because you can't see how multiple different shaders look on your character without applying them. The only reason these are one time use is because of greed. There's no other reason. If they wanted to make the shaders collectible just make it so that each shader can only be used on one piece of equipment at a time.

So if I want my helmet and boots to have the same white shader, I'd need two white shaders, but they would be UNLIMITED use. If I get a new helmet or boots I can just apply the same two white shaders to my new equipment. This way Bungie can still be greedy and sell shaders and they can also let people grind for them which is what they said they want.

That's not true. You can go into the weapon or armor piece, hover over shader and choose "preview shader" or "apply". There no full multi-shader view I guess, but that's more an annoyance than an issue.

I guess drop rates might be an issue, but so far word is these things drop like flies. Even the ultra rare / epic stuff is dropping noticable more than in D1.

 

[Papo Swing]

Ok, so I thought of the best compromise and a win-win for everyone.

Bungie does 2 things. Raises drop rate for those bright engrams( maybe 2 a level or made them randomly available with some task) and then raise the drop rate to 10-20 a drop.

Win-win for everyone. Anyone that finds issue with that can just purchase silver and buy a package. I foresee 0 issue with this unless people are just wanting them free for bs reasons. With 10.20 a drop and with a higher drop rate it would be impossible to run out unless you pop a shader after every mission.

Wtf? It's not free, I'm paying full price for to play the game. Why can't shaders be included in that price? Why can't future shaders be included in the expansion's price?

Shaders ARE included at that price. You get them for free you only need to pay if you want a random loot box for a chance at a random shader and other stuff. The issue is not the paying part it is the limited use. OR are you also cheap about it?

It's not friendlier because you can't see how multiple different shaders look on your character without applying them.

This is a bs complaint when you have a preview button for all shaders. So you move the goal post to not being able to see a full character with shaders before applying? Come on that is a totally a non issue, trivial and if it causes so many a lot of trouble there is an app you probably could use for it.

 

[ithorien]

Ok, so I thought of the best compromise and a win-win for everyone.

Bungie does 2 things. Raises drop rate for those bright engrams( maybe 2 a level or made them randomly available with some task) and then raise the drop rate to 10-20 a drop.

Win-win for everyone. Anyone that finds issue with that can just purchase silver and buy a package. I foresee 0 issue with this unless people are just wanting them free for bs reasons. With 10.20 a drop and with a higher drop rate it would be impossible to run out unless you pop a shader after every mission.

But why not just revert to how it was in D1?

They do have a choice of just, you know, not charging for the extra shit; whether or not we make a choice as a consumer to buy/not to buy, they could also pause, say "wait why are we selling our souls" and just not do that. But lolActivision.

Either way this is not as drastic (imo) as the current WB heresy of attempting to peddle someone's death for cash, but if we don't somehow stop this, you better believe all this will become standard.

It's also incredibly hard to go against people that blindly and ignorantly just buy stuff even at higher prices without a single thought of how their actions will impact the industry, as they're the ones that cause damage that's much harder to reverse after it's implemented.

Either way this boils down to the first choice, whether to be a scumbag publisher/developer or not, and it's very clear that anyone under the Activision umbrella will make a scumbag, greedy capitalist move sooner or later. Again, just because you CAN doesn't mean you should.

 

[LNBL]

Ok, so I thought of the best compromise and a win-win for everyone.

Bungie does 2 things. Raises drop rate for those bright engrams( maybe 2 a level or made them randomly available with some task) and then raise the drop rate to 10-20 a drop.

Win-win for everyone. Anyone that finds issue with that can just purchase silver and buy a package. I foresee 0 issue with this unless people are just wanting them free for bs reasons. With 10.20 a drop and with a higher drop rate it would be impossible to run out unless you pop a shader after every mission.



Shaders ARE included at that price. You get them for free you only need to pay if you want a random loot box for a chance at a random shader and other stuff. The issue is not the paying part it is the limited use. OR are you also cheap about it?



This is a bs complaint when you have a preview button for all shaders. So you move the goal post to not being able to see a full character with shaders before applying? Come on that is a totally a non issue, trivial and if it causes so many a lot of trouble there is an app you probably could use for it.

Or you know, don't mess with something that isn't broken. The community is in its right to complain, nobody is saying they don't understand the reason behind them changing this in Destiny 2.

I'm happy people don't just accept this nonsense and are actually being vocal about it.

 

[Papo Swing]

But why not just revert to how it was in D1?

They do have a choice of just, you know, not charging for the extra shit; whether or not we make a choice as a consumer to buy/not to buy, they could also pause, say "wait why are we selling our souls" and just not do that. But lolActivision.

Either way this is not as drastic (imo) as the current WB heresy of attempting to peddle someone's death for cash, but if we don't somehow stop this, you better believe all this will become standard.

It's also incredibly hard to go against people that blindly and ignorantly just buy stuff even at higher prices without a single thought of how their actions will impact the industry, as they're the ones that cause damage that's much harder to reverse after it's implemented.

Either way this boils down to the first choice, whether to be a scumbag publisher/developer or not, and it's very clear that anyone under the Activision umbrella will make a scumbag, greedy capitalist move sooner or later. Again, just because you CAN doesn't mean you should.

Because this is a different game and the whole economy changed. People are acting like this is a thing with just the shaders but a lot changed. Asking it for it to b e the same as Destiny 1 is too late and even if it would have been the best a lot more would have had to change.

They are not charging for the extra shit since you can get it in-game. They are giving you the option to pay for it and bypass the time needed to get it.

It is not a scumbag publisher when silver and this was added in Destiny 1 and most people said they were ok since it was only cosmetics.

So if the choice everyone wants is to revert it back to how it was on 1, then I agree, but it has to be reverted back for everything. Emotes go back to being all fully paid. That is what compromise is about. YOu can't just want Bungie to give you everything for free.

The WB issue is also bullshit. They could've done nothing, the family could have spoken up about it and sued them. None of that happened so the controversy lies in the community alone and would only reflect negatively on the family of the dude because there has been harassment involved and whether you like it or not it cause confusion to a family in pain.

Or you know, don't mess with something that isn't broken. The community is in its right to complain, nobody is saying they don't understand the reason behind them changing this in Destiny 2.

I'm happy people don't just accept this nonsense and are actually being vocal about it.

Well, I think you are confusing Destiny 1 and Destiny 2. Two different games because they haven't messed with anything. The game launched Wednesday like that and no updates have gone up.

If you refer to the economy overall then do you really want it changed for all? And not just nitpicking shaders because it is what you care about I mean revert it back to motes of ligth and everything from Destiny 1. There is a reason the changed the whole economy.

 

[Okami Haundo]

Personally, I think Bungie should just slash the heck out of the Shader drop rate and make it so they're permanent. Once you find a specific Shader you can use it as many times as you want on all of your gear. Otherwise, I have no personal complaints with Bright Engrams being available for purchase.

I feel no need to purchase them when they can be acquired in a reasonable amount of time via normal gameplay. Especially considering that they don't give you a better drop rate or chance at certain gear when purchased vs. acquired via progression. I was more annoyed with Destiny 1 including content that could only be acquired via silver.

 

[Doc_Drop]

This is a bs complaint when you have a preview button for all shaders. So you move the goal post to not being able to see a full character with shaders before applying? Come on that is a totally a non issue, trivial and if it causes so many a lot of trouble there is an app you probably could use for it.

Are you able to preview your look with one particular shader on two items, a different one on another different items, and a third on the other item/s? All together at the same time?

 

[LNBL]

Are you able to preview your look with one particular shader on two items, a different one on another different items, and a third on the other item/s? All together at the same time?

Nope, you zoom in on a armor piece for example and preview the shaders on that piece alone.

 

[Doc_Drop]

Nope, you zoom in on a armor piece for example and preview the shaders on that piece alone.

As I had assumed, I was getting to the fact that the contrast between colours impacts the way they work together and the fact that you would burn through a shitload of shaders trying different combos

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

Some good receipts on bolded bit?

A quick Google search reveals this, easily. Come on, man.

 

[ithorien]

The WB issue is also bullshit. They could've done nothing, the family could have spoken up about it and sued them. None of that happened so the controversy lies in the community alone and would only reflect negatively on the family of the dude because there has been harassment involved and whether you like it or not it cause confusion to a family in pain.

Wait, I'm slightly confused here. Are you saying that WB should have done nothing at all and that would have been bad because the family would sue for NOT making a tribute?

What should have happened was they should have immortalized the dev in the game by making a character as they did, and then guess what, NOT charge for it because it's a dead person and you look like a garbage dumpster attempting to profit from the loss, regardless of what they claim they won't pocket.

As stupid as this Destiny thing is, when I think of the idea of selling a tribute to a dead guy for any cash whatsoever, I vomit in my mouth a whole lot. It is absolutely beyond disgusting.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Because this is a different game and the whole economy changed. People are acting like this is a thing with just the shaders but a lot changed. Asking it for it to b e the same as Destiny 1 is too late and even if it would have been the best a lot more would have had to change.

They are not charging for the extra shit since you can get it in-game. They are giving you the option to pay for it and bypass the time needed to get it.

It is not a scumbag publisher when silver and this was added in Destiny 1 and most people said they were ok since it was only cosmetics.

So if the choice everyone wants is to revert it back to how it was on 1, then I agree, but it has to be reverted back for everything. Emotes go back to being all fully paid. That is what compromise is about. YOu can't just want Bungie to give you everything for free.

The WB issue is also bullshit. They could've done nothing, the family could have spoken up about it and sued them. None of that happened so the controversy lies in the community alone and would only reflect negatively on the family of the dude because there has been harassment involved and whether you like it or not it cause confusion to a family in pain.

They weren't scum, but I didn't care for the addition. At least the emotes and such were additions that weren't in the game. I think people take this more personally because we had a system that worked great and imo, this takes away a part of that. I don't like the idea of them being related to cash in any way, I don't like the idea of them being consumable and as someone who was absolutely burnt out on the grinding in destiny 1, I don't want to grind for the chance of rare shaders of all things. It was easier to swallow when it was one and done. I do understand that destiny is a grindy game, I know first hand, I've lost count of how many times I killed omnigul in the original, but at least I was working on a badass item.

I just don't like seeing in-game systems that worked perfectly purposely regeared towards MTs I guess. You're not wrong though, I'll probably get to endgame and have a good amount of shaders, but I really did prefer the old system and don't see any real benefit in the new one other than the individual item colors.

 

[Stranya]

So if the choice everyone wants is to revert it back to how it was on 1, then I agree, but it has to be reverted back for everything. Emotes go back to being all fully paid. That is what compromise is about. YOu can't just want Bungie to give you everything for free.

Genuine question: why do you keep saying that people can't expect "everything for free" in a $60 (minimum) game? Why can't they? What part of $60 is "free"? This is not an F2P title.

 

[entremet]

I’m fine with this. Games cost the same for ages yet dev costs keeps rising. Where are publishers going to get additional revenues?

 

[Trickster]

I’m fine with this. Games cost the same for ages yet dev costs keeps rising. Where are publishers going to get additional revenues?

Destiny 1 sold like 30 millions copies

 

[Interficium]

Destiny 1 sold like 30 millions copies

I think you're thinking of GTAV there, bud.

 

[Savitar]

It's beyond sad that people defend this thing, it keeps getting worse little by little.

 

[ithorien]

I think you're thinking of GTAV there, bud.

He's a "little" off there, but almost 15 mil units is nothing to scoff at either.

Destiny PS4 2014 Shooter Activision 5.67
Destiny XOne 2014 Shooter Activision 3.39
Destiny X360 2014 Shooter Activision 1.94
Destiny PS3 2014 Shooter Activision 1.64
Destiny: The Collection PS4 2016 Shooter Activision 0.57
Destiny: The Collection XOne 2016 Shooter Activision 0.27

 

[ExtinctionEvent]

I think you're thinking of GTAV there, bud.

No hes not....destiny is huge. May not be 30 but it's not far off.

 

[Papo Swing]

Are you able to preview your look with one particular shader on two items, a different one on another different items, and a third on the other item/s? All together at the same time?

No, but it is why I say it is a bs move. You can preview both items individually and get a good idea of how they look. You can preview any individual item and tell if they are what you want.

Is this really the big reason why this sucks? Is the whole issue that you can't properly preview the shader?

That is a total non-issue. Inconvenient? For sure. Important? not at all. In Mass Effect 2 I could preview the items or have the same menu as I did in MAss Effect 1. It did not affect my experience in any way shape or form.

Wait, I'm slightly confused here. Are you saying that WB should have done nothing at all and that would have been bad because the family would sue for NOT making a tribute?

What should have happened was they should have immortalized the dev in the game by making a character as they did, and then guess what, NOT charge for it because it's a dead person and you look like a garbage dumpster attempting to profit from the loss, regardless of what they claim they won't pocket.

As stupid as this Destiny thing is, when I think of the idea of selling a tribute to a dead guy for any cash whatsoever, I vomit in my mouth a whole lot. It is absolutely beyond disgusting.

No, I am saying WB could have either done nothing at all for him, not even the in game character or the family could have sued them for doing this thing here everyone is pissed of about. Niether of those happened.

I did not see a negative reaction or a lawsuit from the family of the person that died. The money was going either to them or their charity. So even if it might seem shitty I see no issue at all if the one group of people that actually cared about the individual are not suing or mad at what happened. And the devs that did the tribute were his friends also, not corporate scum.

They weren't scum, but I didn't care for the addition. At least the emotes and such were additions that weren't in the game. I think people take this more personally because we had a system that worked great and imo, this takes away a part of that. I don't like the idea of them being related to cash in any way, I don't like the idea of them being consumable and as someone who was absolutely burnt out on the grinding in destiny 1, I don't want to grind for the chance of rare shaders of all things. It was easier to swallow when it was one and done. I do understand that destiny is a grindy game, I know first hand, I've lost count of how many times I killed omnigul in the original, but at least I was working on a badass item.

I just don't like seeing in-game systems that worked perfectly purposely regeared towards MTs I guess. You're not wrong though, I'll probably get to endgame and have a good amount of shaders, but I really did prefer the old system and don't see any real benefit in the new one other than the individual item colors.

You need to remember this is Destiny 2 not Destiny 1. A whole new game built from the ground up. I know it is a continuation, but it is not the same game.

I totally get the reason you cited for it being a bummer, but good news I have experienced NONE of that bs or grinding issue in 2 and the shaders are readily dropping so I am ok with it.


Monetization was always there and people agreed with it for cosmetics. I guess it is a bummer in a way but as I've said before. People are jumping to quick on this horse because they have zero proof that what Luke said isn't true. From my experience with the game I've gotten a new shader at least every 30 minutes playing the game normally. not doing a specific grinding task.

My vote would be for them to raise the drops to 10 or 20 a piece. Win win for everyone. Bungie can monetize stuff and the player that doesn't want to pay gets enough shaders to not complain.

Genuine question: why do you keep saying that people can't expect "everything for free" in a $60 (minimum) game? Why can't they? What part of $60 is "free"? This is not an F2P title.

Because Bungie already established an economy on Destiny 1 and a monetization system that everyone agreed with. Most of the people said," as long as it is only cosmetics it is ok".

So now people want them to revert that change back? Their only items of monetization in 2 and people want them free? that is why I said that and only referring to Destiny. Not defending Bungie, but making sense of a business. If it charged you before and you accepted it they are not gonna give it to your all for free.

Also, what is it that you can't get for free here? Everything in Destiny 2 right now can be gotten from just playing the game normally.

 

[NullPointer]

That is a total non-issue. Inconvenient? For sure. Important? not at all. In Mass Effect 2 I could preview the items or have the same menu as I did in MAss Effect 1. It did not affect my experience in any way shape or form.

Its inconvenient, and its an inconvenience purposefully added to the game so they could sell a chance to work around that inconvenience.

If and when they profit from this they'll look to add/exploit further inconveniences, because its in their interest to do so.

 

[Trickster]

I think you're thinking of GTAV there, bud.

Unless they are counting "registered users" as something very specific that doesn't involve having paid for the game, then no I'm not. They had 30 million users in may last year

 

[The1Ski]

Luke Smith tweeted that basically this system encourages you to play specific modes/strikes/raids to get specific shaders.

The problem I have with this is that it essentially becomes a scheduled chore to find shaders.

I remember in destiny 1 thinking "I've got about an hour of play time, what do I want to get done? I need crafting materials so I'm going to make some runs on Mars (or wherever)". Now shaders have to become a part of the work/grind tasks that break up my "have fun" time.

And that sucks

 

[Papo Swing]

Its inconvenient, and its an inconvenience purposefully added to the game so they could sell a chance to work around that inconvenience.

If and when they profit from this they'll look to add/exploit further inconveniences, because its in their interest to do so.

No. You need to remember this is a whole different game. This is not Destiny 1. I feel a lot if not the majority of people reacting badly to this forget this fact. They think since a lot of it is a continuation that this is the same game so everything should be exactly the same.

And I 100% guarantee you they did not add this to the game for the inconvenience of not being able to preview multiple shaders at once. That is just beyond ridiculous.

Luke Smith tweeted that basically this system encourages you to play specific modes/strikes/raids to get specific shaders.

The problem I have with this is that it essentially becomes a scheduled chore to find shaders.

I remember in destiny 1 thinking "I've got about an hour of play time, what do I want to get done? I need crafting materials so I'm going to make some runs on Mars (or wherever)". Now shaders have to become a part of the work/grind tasks that break up my "have fun" time.

And that sucks

I get you, but not really the same when you can play the normal activities and not have to go out of your way to get items like in the patrols in Destiny 1. Here you focus on the strike or other activity and might get the shader while at the same time leveling up and getting an extra shader(s)?

You'll think " I've got about an hour of play remaining, what do I want to DO (not get done). run a strike, run patrols, run a raid, run crucible. I can't get anything from running each so no need to focus on farming"

 

[NullPointer]

No. You need to remember this is a whole different game. This is not Destiny 1. I feel a lot if not the majority of people reacting badly to this forget this fact. They think since a lot of it is a continuation that this is the same game so everything should be exactly the same.

And I 100% guarantee you they did not add this to the game for the inconvenience of not being able to preview multiple shaders at once. That is just beyond ridiculous.

The inconvenience is in making them single use consumables in order to sell recurrent microtransactions. Their new consumable nature is also the only reason you'd even need a shader preview, because in the first Destiny you could play around with your shaders to your heart's content.