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Destiny's PvP doesn't feel fun anymore

Surface of Me said:
Seriously, whats a better testament to how little Bungie knows about balance than that Invasion map where the Spartans not only spawn on the high ground, but also have access to precise weapons while the Elites below are stuck with Plasma Rifles and Pistols.
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Fuck that was awful. So many games spent just waiting for the next phase as an Elite because there was literally nothing you could do.
 
Frenden said:
Secondaries ran rampant in Destiny when they nerfed primaries at the end of Y1.

Instead of balancing the three exotic hand cannons that dominated the meta in a surgical way, they nuked the whole weapon class from orbit.

Those HCs kept snipers in check (Hawkmoon was great for this) and punished people aping with a shotgun (TLW, anyone?).

The flat footed pulse rifle meta that bloomed, to start Y2 after, was the precursor for the stale, static gunplay in D2's beta-meta.

Without strong primaries to keep the one hit kill weapons in check, all sorts of less successful changes to the sandbox were implemented to try and make shotties and snipers less prominent.

In D2, we're saddled with two primaries, both still weak, and our special weapons have been removed from the game for large swaths of time in both pve and pvp. Instead of buffing primaries, the ttk has gotten even slower. Movement has been slowed down.

All this is a reaction to the first unnecessary wave of nerfs that totally ruined Destiny's PvP at the end of year one.

Strong primaries challenge secondaries. They reward gunskill. They increase the skill gap.

Things have been getting worse for Destiny pvp with every balance patch. Most hardcore PvPers I know would rather play Y1, vanilla balance than any since (even with the warts and bumps--it wasn't perfect). It was fast, it was fun, primaries were powerful and special/power weapons were not a problem.
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This post. This is a damn good post. Spot on.
 
I'm glad Frenden is here dropping truth bombs. I cri everytime I see Bungie guys liking and RT'ing stuff like "Thanks for the best Destiny PVP ever".
 
Ramirez said:
Solid shit clogging up the toilet, sure.
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It wasn't the best "Halo" game but it had a very fun multiplayer and Bungie's best campaign to date.

Let's see how D2 does, but so far Reach is one of my all-time favorite campaigns.

Don't get me started on the UI, user options, and just the overall beautiful presentation. Reach was a solid ass product.
 
JHall said:
House of Wolves pvp was the best pvp.
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Pretty much. At least the guns shot where pointed.

3o85xxIR04TwCemImc.gif
 
Handcannons feel the best but they are the weaker overall weapons I think. Pulse, autos and scouts just beats it from any range it seems.

And this says it all.

b5HtzDL.png


And Fuck all the randoms leaving games. Even games where we were winning.
 
D2 beta PVP felt closer to what I expect from the team that brought us Halo than anything I experienced in D1.

Tight, supports teamwork and you aren't getting nuked from orbit every time you turn a corner.
 
Good God, the D2 beta was boring. I went from a "maybe" to "meh...ill pick it up when it's $20 including the expansions". I wanted to give it a real chance.
 
*shrug* I liked the PvP, but I already summed up my complaints in another post. The PvP isn't to the point where it's unfixable to make it fun.

Fix the super cool down time. Grenade cool down time. Power ammo to be more than one person to grab it. Make Hunters not be trash tier. Weapon rebalancing may already be needed since pulse rifles seem a cut above the rest in beta.

All things they can easily tweak and fix before launch. I don't think they can fix spawn camping and killing though without better maps.

Day 1 still. The raid alone is worth price of admission I bet.
 
Perineum said:
*shrug* I liked the PvP, but I already summed up my complaints in another post. The PvP isn't to the point where it's unfixable to make it fun.

Fix the super cool down time. Grenade cool down time. Power ammo to be more than one person to grab it. Make Hunters not be trash tier. Weapon rebalancing may already be needed since pulse rifles seem a cut above the rest in beta.

All things they can easily tweak and fix before launch. I don't think they can fix spawn camping and killing though without better maps.

Day 1 still. The raid alone is worth price of admission I bet.
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It'd be nice if jumps didn't kill momentum, too. Jumping and gliding around was fun and fast in D1 meanwhile D2 kills your momentum (unless you're a Hunter but even then the momentum is neutered).
 
I guarantee you a good portion of the people praising D1 metas and bitching about how D2 has ruined everything were calling those metas cancer and trash back when they were actually occurring.
 
Destiny 2's PVP is awesome. I hope they don't change anything. Games feels much faster than the slow camp throw nades, abuse specials and supers Destiny 1 PVP. I feel people who don't enjoy the beta probably did well abusing cheap things in Destiny 1 PVP. Now that they have to use skill they are struggling so they complain. Destiny 2 should move to a more skilled based game. You had your fun in destiny 1. This is the gradual transition. I bet most people who don't like the Beta probably aren't really good with primarys.
 
Kadey said:
And Fuck all the randoms leaving games. Even games where we were winning.
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Maybe it is not randoms leaving but Bungie servers issues... I got disconnected more times than I wished :P

slyfox said:
Destiny 2's PVP is awesome. I hope they don't change anything. Games feels much faster than the slow camp throw nades, abuse specials and supers Destiny 1 PVP. I feel people who don't enjoy the beta probably did well abusing cheap things in Destiny 1 PVP. Now that they have to use skill they are struggling so they complain. Destiny 2 should move to a more skilled based game. You had your fun in destiny 1. This is the gradual transition. I bet most people who don't like the Beta probably aren't really good with primarys.
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You don't need skill to win matches in D2... if your team stay together you will win over 90% of the matches.

D1 is where you could change the pace and momentum of the match just with your skill.
 
Huh, I guess the reasons I didn't play Destiny 1 PvP for long are the reasons many do (super ability/grenade spam, large trade kill window, unbalanced weapons (that took too long to be balanced), etc).

I'd rather the game be more about gun skills first and foremost so I am the few that enjoyed what they have done. I never felt amazing for getting kills with super abilities and grenades. Anyone can do that by being in the right place at the right time. Getting two kills and turning on someone with your guns - now that I can feel awesome about. Different strokes for different folks I suppose!
 
ethomaz said:
You don't need skill to win matches in D2... if your team stay together you will win over 90% of the matches.

D1 is where you could change the pace and momentum of the match just with your skill.
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So...the more skilled team wins in a team game...crazy concept.
 
ethomaz said:
Maybe it is not randoms leaving but Bungie servers issues... I got disconnected more times than I wished :P


You don't need skill to win matches in D2... if your team stay together you will win over 90% of the matches.

D1 is where you could change the pace and momentum of the match just with your skill.
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If a team just sticks together in D1 it was no different, they'd win 90% of matches too. Only difference with 2 is the smaller maps and player count are making randoms stick together more often too, so it's all teams do now, instead of having a couple lone wolves.
 
Ramirez said:
So...the more skilled team wins in a team game...crazy concept.
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If you mean skilled like stay together and everybody shots the same guy... yeah your team is skilled in doing a dumb task.

Floody said:
If a team just sticks together in D1 it was no different, they'd win 90% of matches too. Only difference with 2 is the smaller maps and player count are making randoms stick together more often too, so it's all teams do now, instead of having a couple lone wolves.
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That is not true at all... you can break any team that stay together in D1 just being skilled enough... you need to create different strategies to break the flow of the enemy team and help your team.

D1 requires skill and fast/smart decisions.

Let's hope Bungie does some big changes after the bad reception of the Beta's PVP... there is time to save it.
 
ethomaz said:
If you mean skilled like stay together and everybody shots the same guy... yeah your team is skilled in doing a dumb task.


That is not true at all... you can break any team that stay together in D1 just being skilled enough to make an approach from their back... you need to create different strategies to break the flow of the enemy team and help your team.

D1 requires skill and fast/smart decisions.
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You can break them up with a Super for a few seconds. Any half decent team will stomp a team of mostly randoms in D1 with team shooting too. Your individual skill is irrelevant when there's 6 enemies all watching each others back.
 
Floody said:
You can break them up with a Super for a few seconds. Any half decent team will stomp a team of mostly randoms in D1 with team shooting too. Your individual skill is irrelevant when there's 6 enemies all watching each others back.
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You don't need super... skill matter and it is really important facing multiples enemies.

You won't have 6 enemies watching each other back when you can kill half of them with your own skill making them unorganized.
 
PSYGN said:
I never felt amazing for getting kills with super abilities and grenades. Anyone can do that by being in the right place at the right time. Getting two kills and turning on someone with your guns - now that I can feel awesome about. Different strokes for different folks I suppose!
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half of the "kills" in d2 beta are "assists" breh :/
 
Movement definitely feels slower than D1, and I wish TTK was faster. It's almost impossible to win a 2v1. Yeah, PvP is team based, but in D1 you could actually turn the tide of the game by yourself IF you had the skill to do so. Definitely much harder to do anything alone right now.

Also, only getting one super per match feels meh. Everyone gets it near the end, and it's just pure chaos at that point.
 
ethomaz said:
You don't need super...
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So you kill one with a gun and get mowed down by the other than.

How can you reliably take down a group of 6 Guardians protecting each other? Because as someone who pretty much never plays in anything more than a 2 it's near impossible, unless they just suck and even then it's still not easy. Going behind them isn't a way, as once you attack 1 they'll be facing you and once they quickly deal with you will just regroup.


Edit: Saw your edit.

So you maybe kill half, there's still 3 left and after they kill you they'll just regroup again, meaning you accomplished very little and are right back to were you started.
 
I wasn't with my team mates half of the time in D1. I find a spot where I'll cover angles and stay there pretending I'm playing Metal Gear and I'll move around according to the action. In D2 you definitely have to move close to one another like in a swat team.
 
Floody said:
So you kill one with a gun and get mowed down by the other than.

How can you reliably take down a group of 6 Guardians protecting each other? Because as someone who pretty much never plays in anything more than a 2 it's near impossible, unless they just suck and even then it's still not easy. Going behind them isn't a way, as once you attack 1 they'll be facing you and once they quickly deal with you will just regroup.


Edit: Saw your edit.

So you maybe kill half, there's still 3 left and after they kill you they'll just regroup again, meaning you accomplished very little and are right back to were you started.
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No... they can't regroup at all because they are facing others team member from front... if you are skilled enough you break any team in D1 changing the pace of the match.

Your skill matter in D1.

Every player in your team can be a hero if it has skill to be one in D1 while every player in D2 is a cannon folder even if he has skill to be a hero.
 
Trying to explain how godlike the movement speed and gun fidelity was in D1, Y1 specifically, and how it allowed you to take down swaths of dudes by outshooting them is a zero sum game. Either you experienced it or you didn't. Phantom and Mark of the Unbroken medals existed and were earned.

That sort of one-dude-taking-out-many is infinitely harder with longer ttks. D2 is incredibly teamshot oriented for the reasons I've outlined in several long posts earlier today. You can say that you prefer that sort of a game, but I can't really see how one denies the change.

Videos of Destiny Y1 exist. Comparisons can be made. D2 has slower ttks, slower movement speed, and sluggish ADS, ready, and stow. The radar is slower to come back after ADS, flinch is worse, hand cannons are less accurate, Titan skating is gone, throwing knives do paltry damage, the list goes on and on. And most if this is still a reaction to when balance was broken after major primary nerfs in D1.
 
I disagree OP. I hated the chaos in D1's PVP. It's ridiculous, super after super, grenades everywhere, noobs didn't have to fire their weapons with all the bullshit one hit melees, I'm glad all of that is gone. The problem is that after the first couple of months pass by, when all the casuals move onto the next COD, or what ever the hell kids play these days, Bungie will start to cater to who ever is left and start implementing changes as long as Reddit upvotes enough threads, that way they can keep buying the DLC. Destiny's 'amazing' community is just one big circlejerk. Keep the game the way it is please.
 
went back to D1 to play a regular Control game; had fun using my abilities

then returned to D2, I only got my Super Meter filled up if it was a close match stretching time. otherwise, I would never get to fill it
 
ethomaz said:
No... they can't regroup at all because they are facing others team member from front... if you are skilled enough you break any team in D1 changing the pace of the match.
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How can't they regroup? The respawn countdown isn't that long and affects both teams, regrouping is easy.
Also, just because you attack from the back doesn't mean your team will attack from the front at the perfect moment either, you are way more likely to just die and then your random team mates not long after due to no communication. So by the time you finally break their defence your teams lost anyway.
Individual skill doesn't make 1 v 6 against a half decent teams reliable in Destiny.
 
Frenden said:
Trying to explain how godlike the movement speed and gun fidelity was in D1, Y1 specifically, and how it allowed you to take down swaths of dudes by outshooting them is a zero sum game. Either you experienced it or you didn't. Phantom and Mark of the Unbroken medals existed and were earned.
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Maybe that is the case :(

It is better to give up :)
 
This is what happens when a designer only knows how to nerf shit. The game becomes boring and has ridiculous TTK so people don't feel like who sees who first wins (even though positioning should be a high priority skill).
 
ethomaz said:
Maybe that is the case :(

It is better to give up :)
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That's kinda where I'm at. I was gonna double dip and buy on PC and PS4 and now I don't even have the game preordered for either platform. They're not making a game with a high skill gap. It's a more casual experience now. That's fine.

I'll get it on PS4 eventually simply to be social with my old Destiny friends, but I have to make peace with the fact that the game isn't balanced for, or targeted to, what many of us wanted.
 
I think since Trials is mostly what keeps destiny popular on twitch they wanted to try make the entirety of PvP like that, It didn't work and is a bad move imo...

I love trials but I really hate what they've did to crucible in D2, to be honest I'm dreading seeing Trials or what they have as equivilant this time round as in D2 the maps are too small, engagements happen too fast and teamshots are king, the days of exciting clutch plays will be no more.
 
I've been putting in some time on PvP lately I can definitely say I've been enjoying it. The ttk hasn't been bothering me much. I feel like the game has made a huge shift to more team-oriented play. I felt like that was showing up a lot more on the competitive streams and in trials and the sort of team-shotting/team-movement based gameplay is absolutely moving into the normal gameplay. To me, this is a net positive for the game. I have a feeling that due to beta feedback amongst other things we'll see some of that change and I'm not exactly sure what we'll get in the end, but here is to being hopeful.

The main things that I really think need to be addressed are super charge and abilities, I think that everything is far too staggered right now. I enjoy the primary gunfights a lot, and enjoy the ability to counter supers with your energy weapon. But in a good game, supers aren't coming out to till the end of the game (50/60 points) where they should be dropping atleast at 30. They really need to tweak that balance to make them feel like an actual power play. Right now they feel like a way to mop up kills, and not a way to actually turn the tide of battle.

The discouragement of the lone-wolf game style in favor of some interesting group-play has been a breath of fresh air. Is it Destiny? I'm not really sure, but I'm welcoming it and looking forward to spending more time in it come this fall.
 
ethomaz said:
Maybe it is not randoms leaving but Bungie servers issues... I got disconnected more times than I wished :P


You don't need skill to win matches in D2... if your team stay together you will win over 90% of the matches.

D1 is where you could change the pace and momentum of the match just with your connection.
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Fixed.

The massive amount of one shot kills in Destiny 1, including but not limited to sniper rifles, shotguns, fusion rifles, grenades, melee abilities (knife and charge), and ridiculous supers - made connection issues that much worse.

I can't count how many times I walked into a Trials (or even regular Crucible match) and knew from the first encounter, that the match was a loss - due to a latency issue that turned an otherwise good sniper/shotgun user into a dominant force.

I'm not saying there was no room for skill and good strategy. I also know that D2 will have its share of connection issues (I only noticed a small issue a couple of times).
But as someone who was on the receiving end of some horrible lag, the overall removal or tone down of one shots is more than welcome.
 
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