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Deus Ex: HR - 30 Minute E3 Demo Presentation
- Thread starter CaLe
- Start date
I really liked how loot appeared to be everywhere, and there were tons of rooms and doors that he just walked by. The obsessive part of me is going to be inside of all those places checking every nook and cranny for loot since I'll have the glow off.
Only a little more than a month to go!
Only a little more than a month to go!
Vire
Member
What does one have to do with the other? They are two very different games trying to accomplish two very different things. Batman placed it's emphasis on the deep combat system, numerous stealth takedowns, character building and detective analysis. Not environmental interaction.User33 said:
The person you were responding to claimed that the game felt sterile, and by you explaining that you can pick up boxes and barrels, doesn't exactly help your cause. Crates, barrels and other hallmarks of games from the 90's are usually tell-tale signs of poor level design by today's standards.
There are many things that are impressive about this game, but that isn't one of them.
Lostconfused
Member
Please name some games as an example of this other than DNF.Vire said:
The problem with threads for this game is that there are people here that have played it. A lot of us think the game is going to be great, maybe even one of the best games of this gen. So when we see people calling the game sterile or saying it should have probably been released years ago and they haven't even played the game yet we are going to be upset.
Personally I loved what I played of this game. I don't understand why this game doesn't have huge threads like Halo, Uncharted, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, etc. do.
And this game shows how full of it some of the gaming press are.
Personally I loved what I played of this game. I don't understand why this game doesn't have huge threads like Halo, Uncharted, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, etc. do.
And this game shows how full of it some of the gaming press are.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
The definition of "sterile" definitely needs to be clarified in the context of this conversation. Deus Ex, at least this demo area, is "sterile" in that there isn't anything wild and crazy happening all over the levels, there aren't explosions ripping through skylights, there aren't multi-colored grenade explosions going off, and you're more likely to stumble over a printer than a translucent orb of mystery. The Combat is definitely more Mass Effect 1 than Killzone 2.
It is not, in fact, sterile in the sense that you can interact with many facets of the environment (computers, door controls, laser trip wires, security cameras, security drones, ladders, cracked walls, enemy bodies, etc) and your usual assortment of boxes/crates/barrels/vending machines. However, the latter can all be used dynamically to create or remove cover, clear or block secret passages, thrown at enemies, and dynamically create access to otherwise impassible areas, like in Half Life. Only in this case, the progression isn't linear. In most games, the puzzle is simply "move vending machine under ledge to proceed". In the demo level, if the guy running the demo didn't have the highest strength aug, he doesn't get up to the highest floor that easily, he has to choose another route or find more small items to stack.
It is not, in fact, sterile in the sense that you can interact with many facets of the environment (computers, door controls, laser trip wires, security cameras, security drones, ladders, cracked walls, enemy bodies, etc) and your usual assortment of boxes/crates/barrels/vending machines. However, the latter can all be used dynamically to create or remove cover, clear or block secret passages, thrown at enemies, and dynamically create access to otherwise impassible areas, like in Half Life. Only in this case, the progression isn't linear. In most games, the puzzle is simply "move vending machine under ledge to proceed". In the demo level, if the guy running the demo didn't have the highest strength aug, he doesn't get up to the highest floor that easily, he has to choose another route or find more small items to stack.
Any word of the final release having actual dynamic shadows? I know it's a dumb question to ask, but i feel like most of the graphical problems revolve around that, and maybe textures not being all that good.
I also hope the pre-rendered cutscenes were just a thing of the preview build...
I also hope the pre-rendered cutscenes were just a thing of the preview build...
Mr. B Natural
Member
Options have NOTHING to do with sterility. When the options bring nothing interesting or new to the table, it doesn't matter. People mistake options with fun. Options with actually being interesting. Options with entertaining or compelling or complexity.Chairman Yang said:
This game looks like the very definition of "master of none" and that is about as sterile as one can get these days because every mechanic they're using has been lightly explored for years now. Taking each mechanic as is, it's sterile, the stealth, the combat, the Hud, the visuals, the AI, etc.
But then again, that's Deus Ex for ya. At least when the first one came out, the open endedness (in a linear game) was enough to garner attention. It's 2011. Watching bad gunplay is watching bad gunplay. Bad AI is bad AI. It's not a "feature" anymore. A laundry list isn't impressive anymore. It's sterile unless you can do something with something on your list that's actually interesting which I didn't find here.
eternaLightness
Member
I really like the look of the world. I've never played Deus Ex before.
RockmanWhore
Member
I really don't like the color scheme. They say it's gold and brown, but for me it literally looks like piss and shit. I hope all levels won't look like that. The tech is okay though, it's not Uncharted, Gears of War or Killzone, but it's competent.
Sho_Nuff82 said:
Jesus, tell me this isn't true. I'm totally hyped for this game. Graphics look fine to me. It's the soundtrack and the multiple ways of actually playing the game that i'm hyped for. Not to mention the augs are badass. Anyway, please tell me the combat is not as atrocious as ME1. I cannot stand mass effect combat.
Lostconfused
Member
It's not true. It would have been better to say it's closer to mass effect 2 than Killzone 2.legbone said:
You still have regular FPS weapons that behave like FPS weapons, that you have to reload like FPS weapons. The cover system isn't sticky or difficult. Which is everything that ME2 did to move away from ME1.
Edit: It just doesn't have FPS cover like Killzone, game switches to 3rd person cover shooting, and you don't face undending waves of enemies like in an average FPS game. You don't have 400 rounds and endless clips for every one of the guns you have like FPS games. Ammo is rare and important and you will run out of it.
I thought they said the gunplay was like a normal FPS and not dice roll or stat driven? I remember reading that, but that you also don't take a lot of damage so blasting your way through everywhere wasn't advised.
edit: there we go. Some of you people are making me think I'm nuts here.
edit: there we go. Some of you people are making me think I'm nuts here.
Except you're dead wrong. The gunplay is decent and the AI is great and will gorilla fuck you on the higher difficulty levels if you think you're a Billy Badass that can run and gun. Other devs will look at the way the built the world in Deus Ex and the conversation system and copy it. The Deus Ex team has accomplished what Bioware has been striving for with the ME games and Dragon Age 2; an RPG with good action oriented combat. There's a reason why people are calling this game GOTY and one of the best games of the generation. The game is damn great based on the leaked slice.Mr. B Natural said:
Thanks for calming me down. I was starting to question if i would even make a combat run if it was that bad. i have never played mass effect 2. guess i will try it out (i have a copy just never played it because i couldn't make myself finish the first one, i really hate ME1's combat).
edit: nevermind, i have read enough about me2's improved combat and will just pop in me2 to see how it is.
edit: nevermind, i have read enough about me2's improved combat and will just pop in me2 to see how it is.
Lostconfused
Member
It's not even comparable to ME2 because that game has less of a focus on combat and less exploration than Deus Ex. I was just saying if you were going to use ME in comparison then ME2 is more appropariate.legbone said:
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
EDIT: partially beaten by charsace
Like the stealth is better than anything I've played in years. It's seamlessly integrated with the cover system, it's vastly more complex and customizable thanks to the range of stealth-related augs you have access to, and enemy behaviour is realistic and interesting (for example, they won't just stare straight ahead like in pretty much every other stealth game; they'll actually turn their heads).
The combat's great because opponents are much more dangerous than average (well, if you play on higher than the easiest difficulty). You won't blast through massive quantities of fodder like in CoD because even the fodder can kill you quickly. There are plenty of weapons (with lethal and non-lethal variants) that often feel significantly different from each other. Ammo management is also a big factor in this game, unlike most shooters.
I'm not going to quibble about the HUD or visuals, because they're both pretty subjective. I will say that if anyone overlooks this game because of either, their priorities are weird and I don't understand why they'd even play video games.
Other reasons why the game should not be described as "sterile": the hacking minigame is the deepest and most interesting ever created; the conversational system is astoundingly well-executed and on par with the best from any RPG; and the game is great at providing strong incentives for exploration.
Deus Ex 3's has plenty of options. More importantly, it has plenty of meaningful, entertaining, innovative, and frankly genre-changing options. If people overlook that because they perceive "bad gunplay" (whatever that means...weapon sounds, I guess?) then that sucks.
Let's break it down, then, because I don't think each mechanic is sterile, either. In fact, Deus Ex 3's elements are decent at worst, and top-of-genre at best.Mr. B Natural said:
Like the stealth is better than anything I've played in years. It's seamlessly integrated with the cover system, it's vastly more complex and customizable thanks to the range of stealth-related augs you have access to, and enemy behaviour is realistic and interesting (for example, they won't just stare straight ahead like in pretty much every other stealth game; they'll actually turn their heads).
The combat's great because opponents are much more dangerous than average (well, if you play on higher than the easiest difficulty). You won't blast through massive quantities of fodder like in CoD because even the fodder can kill you quickly. There are plenty of weapons (with lethal and non-lethal variants) that often feel significantly different from each other. Ammo management is also a big factor in this game, unlike most shooters.
I'm not going to quibble about the HUD or visuals, because they're both pretty subjective. I will say that if anyone overlooks this game because of either, their priorities are weird and I don't understand why they'd even play video games.
Other reasons why the game should not be described as "sterile": the hacking minigame is the deepest and most interesting ever created; the conversational system is astoundingly well-executed and on par with the best from any RPG; and the game is great at providing strong incentives for exploration.
Deus Ex 3's has plenty of options. More importantly, it has plenty of meaningful, entertaining, innovative, and frankly genre-changing options. If people overlook that because they perceive "bad gunplay" (whatever that means...weapon sounds, I guess?) then that sucks.
Lostconfused
Member
I wouldn't say that Deus Ex actually has better combat. Because it's a lot less focused on combat than ME2. You can run into a room and there are 5 enemies in there and you gun them all down but then 6 more enemies don't suddenly run into the room. You are stuck with a giant some what open space with lots of stuff lying around and lots of things to explore but nothing to shoot. So at least in terms of pacing I wouldn't say the combat is better.legbone said:
But these are impressions from the preview build so who knows what the later game is like. I am sure when bots enter the mix things will be rather different.
spiderman123
Member
Did not watch it, and the graphics complaint does not deter my thoughts on buying it either. IMO a majority of ppl complaining about the graphics and the style, never played a Deus game judging from the video responses on youtube.
It has better combat than ME by far. Enemies try to box you in and use cover better in this than they do in ME. If you step out they will gun you down. And firing shots in HR without planing can fuck you if enemies in other rooms hear the shots because they do check.Lostconfused said:
Its sad to think that this game might not sell well because it isn't the shiniest looking thing at the time of its release.
spiderman123
Member
charsace said:
That is pretty cool. What are the other A.I tatics.? I hate when you run around and the stupid enemy A.I is creeping right infront of you.
They cover the lead AI that is going to check your position. If you kill the guy that was going to check on you the AI will try to box you in at that last location so just sitting camping and trying to methodically take them out from one spot won't work. I've also been in a few situations where all the guys but one will constantly fire on you while the guy that isn't firing will slowly try to circle around for a better shot. Rooms of 3 or more guys aren't easy, especially if they spot you in a bad area.spiderman123 said:
spiderman123
Member
charsace said:
I love games where the concentrate on A.I tatics, RAGE for example is one of those diverse tactics .
The circling aspect is pretty cool ( instead of the usual standing in one area and shoot ....Looking at you HOME FRONT). Love to hear that they did work on that.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Human Revolution will be one of the best titles this year, if the preview build is anything to go for. It nails the Deus Ex formula perfectly.
You've got a wide variety of skills and abilities to learn and use, yet the manner of how to use each is entirely up to the player. You dont chose stealth, combat, social, or paths like that. The abilities you chose are your tools, and how you use them in missions and exploration come down to how creatively you play.
The best part is that all these elements work. Sneaking is simple enough to know exactly what you should be doing and what will get you caught, yet hard enough to offer genuine challenge. Combat plays like a standard first/third person cover shooter. Its not amazing, but it works much better than any other hybrid RPG game. You aim down the sights. You take cover from shots. You try and hit enemies in the head. You reload. All those skills you learned in pure first/third person shooters can and should be applied here, because they work.\
Where the game excels is in options. Options in skill selection, options in weapons, options in play syle, and options in world interactivity. Nobody has anything to be worried about because this game is going to be magnificent.
You've got a wide variety of skills and abilities to learn and use, yet the manner of how to use each is entirely up to the player. You dont chose stealth, combat, social, or paths like that. The abilities you chose are your tools, and how you use them in missions and exploration come down to how creatively you play.
The best part is that all these elements work. Sneaking is simple enough to know exactly what you should be doing and what will get you caught, yet hard enough to offer genuine challenge. Combat plays like a standard first/third person cover shooter. Its not amazing, but it works much better than any other hybrid RPG game. You aim down the sights. You take cover from shots. You try and hit enemies in the head. You reload. All those skills you learned in pure first/third person shooters can and should be applied here, because they work.\
Where the game excels is in options. Options in skill selection, options in weapons, options in play syle, and options in world interactivity. Nobody has anything to be worried about because this game is going to be magnificent.
spiderman123
Member
EatChildren said:
This is what a Deus game is about. Seems to me people who are just complaining about the graphics and saying they are not getting the game because of the graphics, in IMO never played a Deus game.
BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
Member
How was saving done in the leak?
in my opinion the art style is head and shoulders above anything else being released this year. it oozes style. and i'm even a fan of the black and gold motif. show me another game being released this year that can match this art style (yeah, i know, highly subjective). the only thing i think that comes close is el shaddai.
Lostconfused
Member
Several save slots, not sure if limited or not. Auto save, checkpoints and quick save. Except some areas didn't let you quick save, so that might be removed or it might not.BIONIC-ARRRMMM!! said:
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
spiderman123 said:
The graphics dont look that bad though, at least on PC. I mean, there is huge room for improvement on a technological front. Its not like its support super detailed environments or props. Poly count is pretty low. Textures leave a lot to be desired.
But the art is gorgeous and absolutely nails the mood and atmosphere of the game. The neon glows, smokey alleys, and cyber punk design to clothing, vehicles and props signify a unified art direction that really sells the style the game is going for.
Production values are high too. Deus Ex wasn't just ugly because of raw graphical presentation, it was also pretty janky in motion. Human Revolution is the opposite. Animations are great on all fronts (combat, stealth, NPCs, etc), weapon sounds are satisfying, and there's tons of animated dialogue and scenes. It would be another issue entirely if interacting with the world, whether it be sneaking or shooting a weapon or conversing with someone, was presented in a really half-arsed b-grade way, but its not.
The game looks fine really. Also, the PC version supports tessellation. Its used sparingly, but helps smooth out character models and looks lovely.
spiderman123
Member
legbone said:
I have issues with the head and body proportionality. I remember watching a 4 min game play video and the head was wayyyy to small for the body. Did they correct that or just went along with it?!
Played the leak and would just like to make it clear that this game excels beautifully in terms of ambiance/atmosphere despite not having Crysis graphics. If you're worried about the believability of the settings because of the visuals, then I can say that is definitely not a problem. If you're worried about raw numbers and texture work straight out of 2027, then you might look elsewhere.
spiderman123
Member
User33 said:
I noticed, but I'm nit picky. That and the highlighting issue ( which is now optional IIRC) were the only two issues I had with the game. Either way it will not deter an awesome gaming experience.
Ventilaator
Banned
I played the original Deus Ex for the first time in my life just a few years ago. When I went on to discuss my experiences with other people, I never mentioned the old graphics at all, because first of all they didn't stick out to me as being painful, and second, the graphics aren't even the point.
So basically, I couldn't give half of a bottom end of a rat about if it looks dated or not, my tolerance level for old graphics is way too high. HR looks excellent to me. The general look at least stands out, which is very welcome these days. I'll be waiting for some reviews to hit and see what they say about the story before getting this game.
Also, every game with a conversation wheel ever should adopt their idea of showing what your character is actually going to say when you highlight something as generic as "Intimidate"
So basically, I couldn't give half of a bottom end of a rat about if it looks dated or not, my tolerance level for old graphics is way too high. HR looks excellent to me. The general look at least stands out, which is very welcome these days. I'll be waiting for some reviews to hit and see what they say about the story before getting this game.
Also, every game with a conversation wheel ever should adopt their idea of showing what your character is actually going to say when you highlight something as generic as "Intimidate"