Support NeoGAF

[hamchan]

I've played this for a new hours now and it's pretty awesome. Definitely preordering on Steam now.

 

[Robobandit]

He literally has no idea what he's talking about.

I have to agree.. this doesn't feel anything like invisible war.

 

[ColonialRaptor]

Because it's an unfinished build and doesn't work properly? Use D3DOverrider instead?

Yeah, that's what I expect / imagine is the case - so I only played for about 15 minutes just to check it out... anyway, it was a worthy peak.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

I've heard it from Ryan, Klepick, some Joystiq people and some Weekend Confirmed people.

Lol, fuck them. How many of those gaming faux-journos have even played the first gam?

Those guys are WRONG.

 

[Jintor]

Kleppek, at least, and this is the level of discourse which contributes towards the type of 'game journalism' you're thinking about. I'd be far more interested in hearing his reasons to be dismissive of Human Revolution than in just saying "FUCK 'EM".

 

[Zero-Crescent]

Anyone who's played this: any theories why most in this thread think this game will be amazing, while virtually every report out of E3 is that this game feels clunky, old and bad?

It's really quite simple: it was a bad demo.
From everything I've read, it sounds like the demo plops you into a warehouse area with a preset load-out of abilities, with no explanation of how to best utilize them. It also allows you to upgrade your augs, but it apparently doesn't explain this aspect very well, if at all. The GamesRadar article points out plenty of other things that were very easy to miss because, once again, it was a bad demonstration. I'm glad that someone posted a link to it, since it really seems to drive home this point.

Evidently, the dumped a bunch of features onto the demo players without adequately explaining how to best utilize those features. Of course, when you play through the game normally, you'll most likely encounter those same features at the pace that the developers intended, with the appropriate explanations provided as you progress through the story. So with that in mind, perhaps it is best to take the E3 demo impressions with a grain of salt.

Remember, it is entirely possible to have a poor demo of a great game; fans of the Yakuza series can attest to that.

 

[Zenith]

When he did wander into a restricted area, he was able to quietly take down guards with melee attacks (he can be quiet?), and drag them into rooms (he can do that?) as to not attract unwanted attention. By upgrading and equipping different augmentations (there were upgrades?!),

Have Gamefront not played this game before or paid any attention to any of the gameplay trailers or their own press? "The Deus Ex franchise features upgrades?" How can they be this ignorant of such a big franchise?

Can't help but feel this may be maladjusted, passive-aggressive journos taking out their frustration that all their gameplay impressions and exclusive shots are worthless out on the game now that HR is in the wild.

 

[MNC]

It does look brilliant, but I don't want pay ~$150 (!) to get the collector's version.
I might just get the figure for the $50. Not sure if I should pre-order or hope the price for the collector's edition drops a bit later.

Hehe, I can find the collector's edition for 60€ :3


And this is where gaming journalism is such a mess. If it weren't for this leak and we'd have to go by gaming journalism (if people even do that nowadays) the game would probably seriously be hurt in sales It deserves a good reception.

 

[subversus]

What's funny is that inflated review scorsw will help this game somehow even if some reviewers don't like it. They'll have to to make it 80 at least.

but I think most reviewers will like it.

 

[Easy_D]

Hehe, I can find the collector's edition for 60€ :3


And this is where gaming journalism is such a mess. If it weren't for this leak and we'd have to go by gaming journalism (if people even do that nowadays) the game would probably seriously be hurt in sales It deserves a good reception.

Yeah this leak seems to be doing well for them. Lots of peole (including myself) seem to have gone from cautious to "HOLY SHIT I MUST OWN THIS".

Sometimes I wonder if this leak was on purpose

 

[subversus]

Sometimes I wonder if this leak was on purpose

I don't think so. You never know for sure, reaction could be opposite.

 

[BlackDove]

What's funny is that inflated review scorsw will help this game somehow even if some reviewers don't like it. They'll have to to make it 80 at least.

but I think most reviewers will like it.

I'm not so sure of that personally.

Reviewers will be more than eager to pan a game that doesn't include multiplayer, and isn't super easy to play.

Remember that HR does the unspeakable sin of having stealth mechanics in a world where pretty much every single developer has excised it from their products because it doesn't contribute to fluffy simple gameplay.

I mean, the preview was fantastic in my opinion. But they'll just find plenty of reasons to bitch, much like many of the CoD and Halo loving players who played the preview have.

"Graphics suck, mouse acceleration is so bad I can't play", etc. etc. Numerous pointless wish-criticizing as well, such as "Game should have melee, where are the lockpicks" and the similar armchair amateur developer insights.

Hope I'm wrong though.

 

[subversus]

I'm not so sure of that personally.

that's not about them, that's about ads Square Enix buys. They can hate Deus Ex all the way.

 

[BlackDove]

Hahahahahahahaha, good point.

 

[Sober]

I don't think so. You never know for sure, reaction could be opposite.

Regardless, I hope DXHR will let people realize that you don't have to completely reinvent the wheel with franchises. Too many Conviction-ings happen when you look at DXHR and see you don't need the original team to make a true sequel or whatever, you just need to take what people liked about it and modernize it rather than trying to change it and piss off the actual fanbase.

 

[Clevinger]

It's really quite simple: it was a bad demo.
From everything I've read, it sounds like the demo plops you into a warehouse area with a preset load-out of abilities, with no explanation of how to best utilize them.

Nope. The warehouse level features tutorials.

It also allows you to upgrade your augs, but it apparently doesn't explain this aspect very well, if at all.

In each aug's box, there's a description of what the aug does and if it's contextual or not. The aforementioned tutorials explain what experience does, how to get it, and how it relates to augs. Even if there was no tutorial related to this, it couldn't be simpler to deduce.

Don't blame the developers for press stupidity and their need of excessive handholding.

 

[subversus]

Regardless, I hope DXHR will let people realize that you don't have to completely reinvent the wheel with franchises. Too many Conviction-ings happen when you look at DXHR and see you don't need the original team to make a true sequel or whatever, you just need to take what people liked about it and modernize it rather than trying to change it and piss off the actual fanbase.

lol no. It's not developers who decide about the series direction. And public-traded publishers will always want to expand the audience. A sequel to Human Revolution (if it happens) will likely be dumbed down.

 

[BlackDove]

Yeah, that's the usual motion of the ocean.

I'm actually impressed that Rocksteady was allowed to keep City generally the way Asylum was.

 

[subversus]

Yeah, that's the usual motion of the ocean.

I'm actually impressed that Rocksteady was allowed to keep City generally the way Asylum was.

Arkham Asylum is a very accessible game. Partly because it's very well designed.

Everything that has some PC DNA will get shafted because it doesn't gel well with consoles as publishers think.

 

[BlackDove]

They're right too in my opinion, as insidious as the practice may be.

In order to appeal to the broader demographic which includes people who are inept at playing games, it only makes sense to dumb games down and make them worse in order to get more money.

I suppose the genius in game development is to make the game both easy for imbeciles and complex for those that actually seek depth and variety.

Then again the same thing is going on in the film industry so it's hardly surprising.

Arkham is doing both really I suppose. You can button mash the attack button like a fucktard, and your combo will be broken, but there won't be too many repercussions. You'll still probably get by. But for those who want the challenge, they'll find ways to do the combo's unbroken, and be entertained by the challenge that presents.

 

[Lostconfused]

Well it took ten years for a sequel to Deus Ex to come out. I guess we can wait another ten after this. Although personally I would prefer a Ghost In The Shell adaptation in this style rather than a direct sequel.

 

[Deadbeat]

lol no. It's not developers who decide about the series direction. And public-traded publishers will always want to expand the audience. A sequel to Human Revolution (if it happens) will likely be dumbed down.

This is what worries me about Thief 4. If the HR dev team was allowed to make Thief 4 the way they see fit, we would no doubt get a real Thief game. But considering this game is getting panned already for being too complicated, I am worried for the future of this dev team.

But who knows. At least were getting a Deus Ex game again. Only took 11 years.

 

[thetrin]

They're right too in my opinion, as insidious as the practice may be.

In order to appeal to the broader demographic which includes people who are inept at playing games, it only makes sense to dumb games down and make them worse in order to get more money.

I suppose the genius in game development is to make the game both easy for imbeciles and complex for those that actually seek depth and variety.

Then again the same thing is going on in the film industry so it's hardly surprising.

Depressing! I like to believe that there are plenty of intelligent and curious people out there looking for some semblance of a cerebral challenge when playing a video game.

Of course, I have absolutely no evidence to support that claim, and plenty to refute it. Alas, hope springs eternal.

 

[Derrick01]

Depressing! I like to believe that there are plenty of intelligent and curious people out there looking for some semblance of a cerebral challenge when playing a video game.

Of course, I have absolutely no evidence to support that claim, and plenty to refute it. Alas, hope springs eternal.

There are. Witcher 2 broke 400k in a week or so and it'll likely go on to sell a few million, and it did it with a ~$10 million budget. Complex, deep games can still be done but not if everything you do is to try and sell COD levels. That's what companies like EA will never learn.

 

[Almighty]

Patrick said they had a build in the office and was fairly dismissive. He said it had more in common with Invisible War than the original which is his favorite game of all time. It sounded like he'd put some time in with it. He then went on to hype up Prey 2 saying it felt more like the original Deus Ex than Human Revolution. I don't think Prey 2 was playable tough. Needless to say, I'm confused.

From what I played of Human Revolution it is about as faithful of a Deus Ex game as anyone could of reasonably asked for. I just got done playing the original Deus Ex a few days ago so i can say with that game still fresh in my mind that HR felt like it really nailed the feel the original had. This is also coming from a guy who had no expectations for HR and to be quite honest expected a game that would only be Deus Ex in name and nothing else.

 

[subversus]

They're right too in my opinion, as insidious as the practice may be.

In order to appeal to the broader demographic which includes people who are inept at playing games, it only makes sense to dumb games down and make them worse in order to get more money.

I suppose the genius in game development is to make the game both easy for imbeciles and complex for those that actually seek depth and variety.

Then again the same thing is going on in the film industry so it's hardly surprising.

Arkham is doing both really I suppose. You can button mash the attack button like a fucktard, and your combo will be broken, but there won't be too many repercussions. You'll still probably get by. But for those who want the challenge, they'll find ways to do the combo's unbroken, and be entertained by the challenge that presents.

well, there's a catch. They won't get what they want because there's no casual audience on both HD consoles except those who play COD or Gears of War + Halo and Madden. And those people won't buy Absolution, Deus Ex or any game unless it is COD or Gears of War + Halo and Madden. Batman sold like 3-4 million copies for example and that's BATMAN GAME! RDR sold well because it appeals to a large crowd with its cinematic experience and writing + Rockstar did nice marketing.

Casual audience is the biggest illusion of the modern game industry. I found it funny how Jade Raymond talked about a new gaming audience - that they don't make games for basement nerds anymore. Her game became a success only because it was released early in this gen not because it was made for a wide audience. If it was released nowadays they would sell 4 million copies max.

There's nothing wrong in being cinematic or well-written game. The problem is that those who play because the game looks good and is not written for idiots are still a minority. Majority of those who bought HD twins are seasoned gamers. So all these reboots fall flat. People bought Conviction because there was still hope that it is good (I liked the game but I haven't played any SC game before). But they won't give in again.

All major pulblishers should plan and budget all their core games to sell at 2 million max. 4 million is a great luck.

 

[Zero-Crescent]

But considering this game is getting panned already for being too complicated, I am worried for the future of this dev team.

Except it's not. The folks who only played the E3 floor demo were missing the features that would be explained in the normal gameplay, and as a result, likely without realizing that those features even existed, they thought it was nothing more than another shoot em' up with some sneaking and box-moving elements. It probably says a lot that every positive E3 preview I've seen are from the people who also went to the closed-doors developer playthrough, where the developer pointed out things like the bribe-able guard and the scientist's security pass, which were apparently easy to miss on the show floor.

http://www.gamesradar.com/xbox360/d...ot/a-2011061511406984016/g-200711271042744040
(One is a blocked site)
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110939-E3-Deus-Ex-Human-Revolution
http://www.gamingnexus.com/FullNews/E3-2011-Deus-Ex-Human-Revolution-(Impressions)/Item23155.aspx
http://www.gameon.co.uk/game/preview/deus-ex-human-revolution-e3-2011-hands-on-preview
http://www.neoseeker.com/news/16630-deus-ex-human-revolution-e3-2011-preview/

 

[BlackDove]

well, there's a catch. They won't get what they want because there's no casual audience on both HD consoles except those who play COD or Gears of War + Halo and Madden. And those people won't buy Absolution, Deus Ex or any game unless it is COD or Gears of War + Halo and Madden. Batman sold like 3-4 million copies for example and that's BATMAN GAME! RDR sold well because it appeals to a large crowd with its cinematic experience and writing + Rockstar did nice marketing.

Casual audience is the biggest illusion of the modern game industry. I found it funny how Jade Raymond talked about a new gaming audience - that they don't make games for basement nerds anymore. Her game became a success only because it was released early in this gen not because it was made for a wide audience. If it was released nowadays they would sell 4 million copies max.

There's nothing wrong in being cinematic or well-written game. The problem is that those who play because the game looks good and is not written for idiots are still a minority. Majority of those who bought HD twins are seasoned gamers. So all these reboots fall flat. People bought Conviction because there was still hope that it is good (I liked the game but I haven't played any SC game before). But they won't give in again.

All major pulblishers should plan and budget all their core games to sell at 2 million max. 4 million is a great luck.

Mmmmm

I'm not so sure about the casual audience.

I mean, if we take it to an extreme, take the average Madden lover. They must play dem sports games, and so buy a 360. That's casual right there.

You've also got drooooooooooves of kids that get the systems (again, a casual audience that _may_ turn into the core one) for their sports and E for Everyone games, but then I think we all know that all they play is CoD and Gears of War.

I've been to Xbox LIVE. I know who the people on there are, and I know how old they are.

The big "Mature rated games are for those 18 plus" is a crock of shit. Publishers intentionally make games that are 18 plus knowing that their primary market are kids, because kids and their moms are where the money's at. And kids are hardly going to grasp the finer facets of the stealth systems in Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. A game which you should play by the way, just so you can see what kind of a bastard garbage piece of shit Conviction is.

If you need a reason, I've got one right here.

So really, the "causal" audience is the audience that gets to the gaming systems because of some other reason other than games. The sports fan comes for the sports, but stays for the gruesome murder and head cutting. The kids come for the sports and pretty colors, and the fact that their parents need a break because FUCKING GOD, JUST GO PLAY BY YOURSELF AND LEAVE MOMMY ALONE, SHE NEEDS A DRINK, I NEVER WANTED YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE - so you get kids coming for other reasons, and staying for the gruesome murder and head shooting and cutting, and practicing their racial slurs with other intellectuals over Xbox LIVE and PSN.

I'd definitely assert that there's a "casual" audience catered to exclusively through horrible and easy-to-pick-up systems.

 

[bender]

From what I played of Human Revolution it is about as faithful of a Deus Ex game as anyone could of reasonably asked for. I just got done playing the original Deus Ex a few days ago so i can say with that game still fresh in my mind that HR felt like it really nailed the feel the original had. This is also coming from a guy who had no expectations for HR and to be quite honest expected a game that would only be Deus Ex in name and nothing else.

That's comforting to hear. I really loved the original, hated the sequel and held out little hope that we'd ever get a game that could live up to the name. That's mostly due to how streamlined games have become to allow them to appeal to larger audiences. And for some reason I've let myself get hyped for Human Revolution. Hearing these podcasts call it as clunky as Alpha Protocol was a shock. I guess it's time to readjust my expectations.

I did check out the Prey 2 G4 demo today. I'm not sure where the Deus Ex comparisons are coming from nor the praise from the press. Maye you have to play it to believe. I am really burnt out on shooters though so I'm a tad jaded.

 

[BlackDove]

It's not clunky at all.

Whoever said it was clunky is bad at playing video games.

Or they were playing with a gamepad.

Same thing.

 

[Lostconfused]

RPS and Arstechnica both have write ups on their websites based on the preview build that was sent out for preview. They had those up a month ago. I would like to know how many people who are considered game journalists actually got to play that preview. Not having access to it is the only reasonable explanation for why they were so confused by the E3 demo.

That's comforting to hear. I really loved the original, hated the sequel and held out little hope that we'd ever get a game that could live up to the name. That's mostly due to how streamlined games have become to allow them to appeal to larger audiences. And for some reason I've let myself get hyped for Human Revolution. Hearing these podcasts call it as clunky as Alpha Protocol was a shock. I guess it's time to readjust my expectations.

Or better yet it's time to readjust your opinions of the podcasts that you listen to.

Or they were playing with a gamepad.

It's less clunky with a gamepad.

 

[Despera]

It's not clunky at all.

Whoever said it was clunky is bad at playing video games.

Or they were playing with a gamepad.

Same thing.

I play with a game pad, and I don't think it was clunky.

 

[Qwomo]

I did check out the Prey 2 G4 demo today. I'm not sure where the Deus Ex comparisons are coming from nor the praise from the press. Maye you have to play it to believe. I am really burnt out on shooters though so I'm a tad jaded.

Klepek compared Prey 2 to DX1 simply because you have the option to, say, tase a target or murder them in Prey 2.

As much as I like the guy, and as much as he says the first one is his favorite game, Klepek seems to have a horrible understanding of what the original Deus Ex was about.

 

[subversus]

Mmmmm

I'm not so sure about the casual audience.

Well, anyway those kids would buy the game even if it wasn't dumbed down but had pretty graphics and presentation just because they don't care enough to do a research. They don't complete their games anyway.

Klepek compared Prey 2 to DX1 simply because you have the option to, say, tase a target or murder them in Prey 2.

As much as I like the guy, and as much as he says the first one is his favorite game, Klepek seems to have a horrible understanding of what the original Deus Ex was about.

hahahahaha.

 

[Fjordson]

I did check out the Prey 2 G4 demo today. I'm not sure where the Deus Ex comparisons are coming from nor the praise from the press. Maye you have to play it to believe. I am really burnt out on shooters though so I'm a tad jaded.

I don't know/care about all the Deus Ex comparison business, but Prey 2 looks awesome.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

The Prey 2 comparisons are just: "Cyberpunk + player choice = Deus Ex." There's nothing deeper going on than that.

 

[Suairyu]

- You can trigger the stealth takedowns from 8 feet away.

I always seem to have to get right on top of them, but then I always crouch walk to them. I'll have to experiment.

- Enemies have a very narrow vision cone (seems like 90 degrees).

Completely not true. You try to hide oblique to them, or even slightly behind them in their peripheral vision, they will spot you. At least on the hardest difficulty.

- Enemies don't take height into account when tracking sounds (you can repeatedly fire a shotgun while directly above them and they will never look up).

Again, on the hardest difficulty this certainly isn't the case. Try sneaking into D-Row from above and making noise. You'll be screwed.

- The Ghost XP bonus is rewarded even if you take out every enemy you see. The bonus should only be rewarded when you complete an objective without killing or incapacitating anyone.

GHOST = no-one noticed you during the mission. You were in and out like a ghost, only later on did anyone realise what had happened. I think some sections of the game are impossible without at least an incapacitating takedown.

- The crouched movement speed is faster than the enemy patrol speed, making it too easy to sneak up on them. This will make the silent movement augmentations pretty useless.

This, perhaps, I agree with. Certainly, there have been situations where I wish I could have ran silently, but I can always get there eventually with crouch walk. Still, Augs like silent walk always tend to be of the "makes life easier" variety, rather than genuinely opening up new options.

- You can aim at enemies while behind cover.

Not to the effect of your shot being 100% accurate once you pop up to shoot, but yeah, it is quite cheap.

- Enemies appear on radar even if you don't have line of sight and can't hear them. This will make the Mark & Track augmentation useless.

Not always. I think (as I observed it) that past a certain time of an enemy not being visible/audible, the radar loses track of them. At least, that was how I rationalised people disappearing from the radar, I could be wrong.

- Sneaking through the game while using non-lethal takedowns on every enemy will reward you significantly more XP than any other approach.

Through exploration bonuses, and security system hacks, sure. Don't you still get XP for taking someone out anyway? Killing everyone could also net you a huge chunk of XP. But, if indeed non-lethal stealth nets a significant XP bonus, the game does need to be rebalanced.

 

[BlackDove]

None of these complaints needed to be addressed. They're all fundamentally flawed, and there is no quarter to be yielded when it comes to any of them. They're all wrong, every single one of them.

Armchair game development general.

I'm surprised Eidos didn't come and ask him personally how they should design the game mechanics. What an error on their part.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGIdYl2oN74#t=2m08s

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So after playing the first mission in this, I decided I needed to play the original Deus Ex first. Having just finished that a few days ago (amazing game!), I picked this up again. It really feels like a different game now that I've played the original. I think they definitely nailed the feel of Deus Ex.

I've only just finished the police station, but I'm already completely enamored with this game. The visual style and atmosphere is incredible. I much prefer this aesthetic to the one in the original Deus Ex. It's very futuristic, but believable at the same time. I love taking my time reading all of the ebooks, newspapers, and emails, etc.

I love the original Deus Ex, but I think just about everything is improved in this game mechanics-wise. I miss lockpicking and it's too bad that you can't interact with more stuff, but otherwise I'm loving all of the changes.

Late August is really too far away.

 

[abunai]

mini bump, if you're in the UK WHSmith has DX:HR augmented edition for PC at £25, that's basically half price!

 

[Calavera520]

mini bump, if you're in the UK WHSmith has DX:HR augmented edition for PC at £25, that's basically half price!

Do they ship to the US? I was planning to order from some UK store so that I might get all the bonuses, the Tracer Tong mission and the various weapons.

 

[alphaNoid]

It's not clunky at all.

Whoever said it was clunky is bad at playing video games.

Or they were playing with a gamepad.

Same thing.

It was nice knowin' ya.

 

[ced]

Even with 3 new games, I'm still thinking about this one.

I forced myself to quit and deleted it a good bit into the build, but I'm really wanting to reinstall it, it was that good. Really I just want to return to the detroit police station and see what kind of crazy shit I can start.

 

[EatChildren]

I haven't posted in this thread yet, but the preview build basically eradicated every concern I had that Human Revolution wouldn't match the style and quality I expect from a Deus Ex gaming. I'd been excited yet exctremely skeptical up until the preview code, and now I'm fully confident that Human Revolution is in every which way a true Deus Ex game.

The best part? It plays like a proper RPG.

 

[abunai]

Do they ship to the US? I was planning to order from some UK store so that I might get all the bonuses, the Tracer Tong mission and the various weapons.

Unfortunately they don't

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

 

[NIN90]

[IMGhttp://i55.tinypic.com/2hpma38.jpg[/IMG]

I never asked for this.

 

[Pranay]

I am so hyped for this game that i got myself a cool coffee mug with deus ex pic

 

[Sober]

Through exploration bonuses, and security system hacks, sure. Don't you still get XP for taking someone out anyway? Killing everyone could also net you a huge chunk of XP. But, if indeed non-lethal stealth nets a significant XP bonus, the game does need to be rebalanced.

Non-lethal gives you about 30-50 points I think? For Lethal, you get the 10 or so from Man Down or whatever, plus 20 or so from getting headshots, maybe more depending if you get a Marksmanship bonus or whatever (can't remember). Don't remember if using lethal takedowns score anything besides just the 10. Regardless, if you decide to murder everyone anyway you pretty much have free reign to wander around and collect some exploration bonuses, so it should work out if you go do that.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Non-lethal gives you about 30-50 points I think? For Lethal, you get the 10 or so from Man Down or whatever, plus 20 or so from getting headshots, maybe more depending if you get a Marksmanship bonus or whatever (can't remember). Don't remember if using lethal takedowns score anything besides just the 10. Regardless, if you decide to murder everyone anyway you pretty much have free reign to wander around and collect some exploration bonuses, so it should work out if you go do that.

Non Lethal gets you Man down (10), Merciful (like 20?) and expedient (20?). It's 50 total. Lethal takedown is like 30 for expedient/man down, headshot kill is 20 (man down, marksman or something) , body kill is 10.