Support NeoGAF

[Mr Swine]

These "two times as powerful" "five times as powerful" comparisons need to die, like a decade ago.

This is not the days of 8 bit, 16 bit, blast processing.

But for the Graphic horses it is...

 

[brain_stew]

These "two times as powerful" "five times as powerful" comparisons need to die, like a decade ago.

This is not the days of 8 bit, 16 bit, blast processing.

Its why with the 360 rumors I've only paid attention to the specific mention if the 6670. The rest is meaningless without context. 2x the theoretical floating point performance, fine. 2x the fillrate, fine. We need context for these comparisons.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

As long as games can look as good as the Garden and Zelda demos, I'd be pretty satisfied.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I believe this rumor over the 5x talk. Would be nice, but shocking. Twice the RAM, with twice the GPU power will lead to some very nice looking games which should exceed the Zelda demo quite handily.

 

[kamorra]

But for the Graphic horses it is...

mmmmhhhh Graphic horses

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I believe this rumor over the 5x talk. Would be nice, but shocking. Twice the RAM, with twice the GPU power will lead to some very nice looking games which should exceed the Zelda demo quite handily.

Doesn't it have 3x the RAM and 3x the framebuffer though?

 

[Log4Girlz]

Doesn't it have 3x the RAM and 3x the framebuffer though?

It may...I hope it does. I mean, if it has 2 x the computer power but 3 times the ram and framebuffer, then it could throw more than 2 x the graphics quality on screen. I mean, if we have two cars with identical 500 hp engines, but one has a better exhaust and racing flats, it will perform better than the car without, but it wouldn't be totally accurate to say it was more powerful.

I haven't had much sleep, bear with me.

 

[Row]

I'm honestly surprised it's that powerful, didn't think nintendo would be willing to ship a console that costs over $100 to manufacture

 

[Sagitario]

... didn't think nintendo would be willing to ship a console that costs over $100 to manufacture

How come? They have always done it [at launch].

 

[Krilekk]

2x faster than 2004 tech seems reasonable. Why would they talk about how easy it is to convert games from Xbox 360 and show a bunch of mediocre PC demos to preview their lineup at E3 when the system should be much more powerful? And with how small the Wii U will be it's simply not possible. Half of that Wii U case will be used by the optical drive because those can't be shrinked. That doesn't leave a lot of space for state-of-the-art tech. And it would be totally against everything Nintendo has tried over the past decade, which was to sell profitable hardware at a price lower than the competition.

Unless ... those controllers are pretty big. And I remember Iwata saying something along the lines of it being too expensive to be sold seperately. Maybe they are putting one half of the system into the Wii U and the other half into the controller itself.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

I'm honestly surprised it's that powerful, didn't think nintendo would be willing to ship a console that costs over $100 to manufacture

Did you think this because you have a mental deficiency? Because that's the only reason I could come up with why one would think that.

 

[dragonfart28]

So does this mean we just double the specs then?

 

[Jocchan]

So does this mean we just double the specs then?

Or buy some duct tape.

 

[phosphor112]

So does this mean we just double the specs then?

We use duct tape.

EDIT: Beaten =[

 

[TeegsD]

2x faster than 2004 tech seems reasonable. Why would they talk about how easy it is to convert games from Xbox 360 and show a bunch of mediocre PC demos to preview their lineup at E3 when the system should be much more powerful? And with how small the Wii U will be it's simply not possible. Half of that Wii U case will be used by the optical drive because those can't be shrinked. That doesn't leave a lot of space for state-of-the-art tech. And it would be totally against everything Nintendo has tried over the past decade, which was to sell profitable hardware at a price lower than the competition.

Unless ... those controllers are pretty big. And I remember Iwata saying something along the lines of it being too expensive to be sold seperately. Maybe they are putting one half of the system into the Wii U and the other half into the controller itself.

The console itself does seem longer though but I don't know how much that does for anything component wise.

 

[bgassassin]

The console itself does seem longer though but I don't know how much that does for anything component wise.

I think it should do quite a bit. First the CPU/GPU seem to be toward the back of the console like Wii which should get most of the heat out as fast as possible. Then with the added length of the console it has more "breathing" room to allow the remaining internal heat to dissipate easier inside. It really seems to be an efficient design, but Nintendo has shown a history of that anyway so it's not surprising. I believe with that design Nintendo is targeting around 100w.

 

[Ithil]

People who know precisely nothing about graphics or computers technically talking about console power based on some silly headlines ("PS4 to have 4D and be 10 times cooler than Xbox 3!") is always hilarious/painful.

This is found a lot in casual gamers, particularly teenage ones.

 

[Jay Sosa]

Good enough for me. Hell most Wii games with 360 graphics would be good enough.

 

[chaosblade]

I think it should do quite a bit. First the CPU/GPU seem to be toward the back of the console like Wii which should get most of the heat out as fast as possible. Then with the added length of the console it has more "breathing" room to allow the remaining internal heat to dissipate easier inside. It really seems to be an efficient design, but Nintendo has shown a history of that anyway so it's not surprising. I believe with that design Nintendo is targeting around 100w.

100W on 45nm parts would, honestly, be pretty disappointing. Primarily because of how much 45nm would limit them. I still think that rumor has to be bogus, we'll have 22nm consumer CPUs available in just a couple months. There's really no reason not to use at 32nm, yields shouldn't be an issue.

 

[KageMaru]

People who know precisely nothing about graphics or computers technically talking about console power based on some silly headlines ("PS4 to have 4D and be 10 times cooler than Xbox 3!") is always hilarious/painful.

This is found a lot in casual gamers, particularly teenage ones.

Agreed. Sad thing is many of the people making these comments aren't considered "casual".

 

[bgassassin]

100W on 45nm parts would, honestly, be pretty disappointing. Primarily because of how much 45nm would limit them. I still think that rumor has to be bogus, we'll have 22nm consumer CPUs available in just a couple months. There's really no reason not to use at 32nm, yields shouldn't be an issue.

Only the CPU is listed at 45nm. AMD never gave the GPU process. I expect the GPU to either be 32nm or 28nm. Most likely the former.

 

[Aizu_Itsuko]

People who know precisely nothing about graphics or computers technically talking about console power based on some silly headlines ("PS4 to have 4D and be 10 times cooler than Xbox 3!") is always hilarious/painful.

This is found a lot in casual gamers, particularly teenage ones.

 

[chaosblade]

Only the CPU is listed at 45nm. AMD never gave the GPU process. I expect the GPU to either be 32nm or 28nm. Most likely the former.

With all the manufacturing issues on 28nm, I agree.

And I wonder if Nintendo would have bit on GCN. Or would they use VLIW5, which is more graphics-focused and a bit smaller but sacrifices compute performance? In a console I imagine VLIW5 would be an interesting choice, it's not necessarily ideal for PC since it requires so much optimization to really use effectively, but that could be a good thing for a console where you're developing for specific hardware.

That's just my impression though, I don't really know enough about AMD's GPU architectures to know if that's entirely accurate.

 

[bgassassin]

With all the manufacturing issues on 28nm, I agree.

And I wonder if Nintendo would have bit on GCN. Or would they use VLIW5, which is more graphics-focused and a bit smaller but sacrifices compute performance? In a console I imagine VLIW5 would be an interesting choice, it's not necessarily ideal for PC since it requires so much optimization to really use effectively, but that could be a good thing for a console where you're developing for specific hardware.

That's just my impression though, I don't really know enough about AMD's GPU architectures to know if that's entirely accurate.

Attempting to think like Nintendo in their pursuit of balance I would expect them to stick with VLIW5, but based on something I read awhile back Xenos wasn't VLIW-based despite using unified shaders so there could be a remote possibility of them using/designing their own thing as well.

The design of the CPU would more than likely compensate for the lack of compute functionality in the GPU. I also think it's more than safe to say it will be OoO as opposed to Cell and Xenon.

 

[StevieP]

2x faster than 2004 tech seems reasonable. Why would they talk about how easy it is to convert games from Xbox 360 and show a bunch of mediocre PC demos to preview their lineup at E3 when the system should be much more powerful?

They showed PS360 footage at E3.

I'm honestly surprised it's that powerful, didn't think nintendo would be willing to ship a console that costs over $100 to manufacture

The 3DS is currently losing money per unit, and the Wii was making them <$10 of operating profit at launch.

I also think it's more than safe to say it will be OoO as opposed to Cell and Xenon.

If they're planning on doing hardware BC in any form (without including Broadway+Hollywood on an SoC) it would have to be OoO - if it wasn't there would probably be a lot of issues.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Barely. NES outclasses it in some aspects

Spoiler

by virtue of including a robot

NES has better loading times.

 

[chaosblade]

Attempting to think like Nintendo in their pursuit of balance I would expect them to stick with VLIW5, but based on something I read awhile back Xenos wasn't VLIW-based despite using unified shaders so there could be a remote possibility of them using/designing their own thing as well.

The design of the CPU would more than likely compensate for the lack of compute functionality in the GPU. I also think it's more than safe to say it will be OoO as opposed to Cell and Xenon.

Gamecube, and Wii by extension, was OoO if I'm not mistaken, I don't see why Nintendo wouldn't continue that.

 

[A.KU.MU]

“I've heard [a project designer] complain it was underpowered compared to what Nintendo announced, resulting in people having to de-scale their plans,” said the anonymous game developer.

*sigh*

 

[rpmurphy]

*sigh*

I'm still confused by that quote actually. Is it saying that Nintendo had supplied target specs and the dev kits being given out were not up to par as of then? Or did Nintendo at some point revise down the target specs of the console?

 

[NateDrake]

*sigh*

That claim was made late last yr. Read the whole article instead of focusing on the one negative bit that is old news & not based on the current dev kit.

 

[CrytothePrinceofPeace]

I know I'm the minority here with this view but if it is just 2x the power of 360 then I think that's a good thing. It would mean the price could be under $300 which would be in the range of Nintendo's fanbase.

What really counts for the WiiU to be successful imo is the price, their execution of the U Pad for fun/innovative gameplay, and games, games, games.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

I know I'm the minority here with this view but if it is just 2x the power of 360 then I think that's a good thing. It would mean the price could be under $300 which would be in the range of Nintendo's fanbase.

What really counts for the WiiU to be successful imo is the price, their execution of the U Pad for fun/innovative gameplay, and games, games, games.

We agree here, the biggest issue is price and ability to start to grab marketshare fast. 2x the 360 doesn't bother me at all, especially if it's up to par with the 360 feature-wise more or less.

 

[Proelite]

I am assuming that no one in this thread assumed the following.

Wii-U has double the ram, double the graphics GPU, double the CPU power, and double the bandwidth of the 360.

On dev sees this as 2x, another dev see this as being 5x.

Right guys?

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I just want 1080p games at 60fps from Nintendo and Retro. If I get that, I'll be happy.

 

[Easy_D]

I am assuming that no one in this thread assumed the following.

Wii-U has double the ram, double the graphics GPU, double the CPU power, and double the bandwidth of the 360.

On dev sees this as 2x, another dev see this as being 5x.

Right guys?

Clearly, Wii U has the same specs as the Wii, but thanks to the power of NURBS it'll outclass current gen systems.

 

[RSP]

They probably came up with another weird VRAM configuration that makes it virtually impossible to get any kind of real performance out of the thing.

Like they did with Wii
Like they did with GameCube
Like they did with DS
Like they did with 3DS

 

[Clevinger]

Did you think this because you have a mental deficiency? Because that's the only reason I could come up with why one would think that.

well, aren't you the charmer

 

[Kenka]

I don't know if it is the right place to ask this but I remarked that some games look really good on HD TVs while others don't. Especially, Wii Sports Resort stands out.

Why is it so ? Does that anything to do with how the game exploits resources in the console ?

 

[dragonfart28]

Or buy some duct tape.

I say this in earnest. If we literally double 360's spec criteria, it's actually quite a powerful rig.

 

[FreeMufasa]

mmmmhhhh Graphic horses

I had a nightmare about this horse last night. No idea why. Fuck you!

 

[BishopLamont]

I'm tired of these xxxxx more powerful than bla bla bla bla threads. Shittiest thing about console wars.

 

[mugurumakensei]

I am assuming that no one in this thread assumed the following.

Wii-U has double the ram, double the graphics GPU, double the CPU power, and double the bandwidth of the 360.

On dev sees this as 2x, another dev see this as being 5x.

Right guys?

Well, eliminating bottlenecks can increase perceived performance. So, it's fully possible to have 2x theoretical performance but a larger increase in perceived performance.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Well, eliminating bottlenecks can increase perceived performance. So, it's fully possible to have 2x theoretical performance but a larger increase in perceived performance.

Gamecube vs Xbox is probably a good example of that. Xbox destroyed GC on paper (as it should have, it cost basically twice as much to put together), but in real world performance they really weren't that far apart.

 

[RagnarokX]

I had a nightmare about this horse last night. No idea why. Fuck you!

But that's an elephant.

 

[megashock5]

Gamecube vs Xbox is probably a good example of that. Xbox destroyed GC on paper (as it should have, it cost basically twice as much to put together), but in real world performance they really weren't that far apart.

True. Man, Gamecube was a little beast.

 

[Row]

Did you think this because you have a mental deficiency? Because that's the only reason I could come up with why one would think that.

metroid avatar and a fanboy tag of shame :lol

anyways rumor is bogus, nintendo isn't that ambitious

 

[FreeMufasa]

But that's an elephant.

Oh man :lol

 

[Sagitario]

metroid avatar and a fanboy tag of shame :lol

anyways rumor is bogus, nintendo isn't that ambitious

^ Do you even know why/how he got that tag? [also, judging someone because of his avatar, really?]

Your posts seems trollish, honestly.
I mean:

didn't think nintendo would be willing to ship a console that costs over $100 to manufacture

Seriously?

 

[CadetMahoney]

I had a nightmare about this horse last night.

But that's an elephant.

Oh man :lol

hah pwned!

 

[Donnie]

2x faster than 2004 tech seems reasonable. Why would they talk about how easy it is to convert games from Xbox 360 and show a bunch of mediocre PC demos to preview their lineup at E3 when the system should be much more powerful? And with how small the Wii U will be it's simply not possible. Half of that Wii U case will be used by the optical drive because those can't be shrinked. That doesn't leave a lot of space for state-of-the-art tech. And it would be totally against everything Nintendo has tried over the past decade, which was to sell profitable hardware at a price lower than the competition.

Of course optical drives can be shrunk down, have you seen the drive inside Wii? Its about 20% the size of a standard optical drive (like the one inside 360 for instance). WiiU will use a slot loaded slimline drive like Wii and it'll probably take up somewhere in the region of 10-12% of the space inside the casing.