Well, to be fair, Russia has done a lot in recent years to earn itself a global reputation as an especially homophobic place. It's far from being the only one (or indeed the worst one), of course, but I do think it's the one that has recently gotten the most attention for its homophobia in the Western media. It also does have a budding indie dev scene (I think?) so the assumption doesn't seem that outlandish IMO, even if it's wrong.
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Developer Rejects Player Requesting Steam Key For Supporting LGBT Rights
- Thread starter Dalek
- Start date
Well, to be fair, Russia has done a lot in recent years to earn itself a global reputation as an especially homophobic place. It's far from being the only one (or indeed the worst one), of course, but I do think it's the one that has recently gotten the most attention for its homophobia in the Western media. It also does have a budding indie dev scene (I think?) so the assumption doesn't seem that outlandish IMO, even if it's wrong.
ebullientprism
Member
Yep
I hadnt heard of this game. Hadnt heard of the developer. And reading about it, by all accounts its a pretty shit game. If not for this article, this would have been sold a few hundred copies at best and ignored by everyone.
This is basically free publicity and sales for them.
If Kotaku and whoever else was part of this piece really wanted to hurt this game badly, they should have ignored it and let it die. This is just giving the devs free money.
Totaleclipes
Banned
The developers have there own opinion on the groups everyone should respect that imo, now weather they agree or not is two separate things.
See, and that's where I see things a little bit less clear-cut than you for reasons I've explained in the rest of the post you quoted. I'm not saying I don't see how what he did was problematic, I'm just saying people need to be careful with this kind of stuff because, like I said, it's a two-way street.
You said you didn't know much about what happened, despite naming it as an example for some weird reason, so I was letting you know.
SkeptiMism
Member
I really don't see how this is any similar to the Firefox thing. This wasn't an out-of-work thing at all, it was very much the dev working for his game (not programming, but PR is an important part of the job for an indie dev) and then denying service for someone just because of a small picture (and in an incredibly immature way too, just pure hate).This is a bit of a complicated issue for me, kind of a similar situation to the whole Firefox controversy (I don't remember the guy's name or his exact position but I'm sure most will remember that one guy at Firefox who privately supported some homophobic bill and got Firefox into a bit of a public shitstorm). I'm a gay man myself so, obviously, I think these people are bigoted idiots, however, I'm also not sure how much you should mix a person's private opinions with their work, depending on what their work actually is. I mean, there certainly are some jobs where this kind of attitude is going to interfere with your work but when that's not the case, I kind of think your personal/political/religious/etc. beliefs should not have an impact on how people judge your work (and should not get you fired, either, but that's, of course, not exactly relevant in this specific case) because if you start doing that, then you'll basically open up a two-way street (as in: yeah, it's okay to say that person A's work is worthless because they're a homophobic bigot but then it's also okay to say that person B's work is worthless because they support LGBTQ rights or are LGBTQ themself). Of course, when it comes to art and artistic expression, you can possibly make the case for the creators' worldview colouring the messages that can be found in their art, etc. I don't know what kind of game this is and whether homophobia/intolerance/discrimination is at all relevant to its story/gameplay/etc., though, so can't exactly comment on whether that applies here.
But yeah, I definitely think it's complicated. On the one hand, I definitely understand the instinct to not want to support someone who wants to deny me basic human rights, on the other hand I feel like people's work should stand on its own and be seen separate from their personal lives and opinions. Then again, they're kind of the ones who brought the issue up in the first place and mixed their personal opinions into their work (or rather into the promotion of their work) so yeah, I don't know.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Certain forms of discrimination are illegal. But choosing to not give someone a gift because of discrimination? No. I'm not sure if I'd be okay with that level of government interference. I don't even think it is even possible to have that level of government interference. There are probably many reasons to not have that. Enforcing morality on people is a dangerous game.
Poltergust
Member
Depends on the state, unfortunately.
Bobs Big Boy
Member
I can't make heads or tails of you, guy.
So besides homophobia the developer also tells people to be afraid of Islam and the game contains religious propaganda?
That is fucked up.
potatohead
Member
Discrimination for what though. Laws for discrimination are particular to different domains e.g. discrimination against people with disabilities or race to buy a home or get a job.
This would be legally protected as free speech in USA.
There is more protection for free speech than there is laws against hate speech in USA.
The trend and support in Russia for anti-LGBT messaging is overwhelmingly higher than in places like Europe or even the US.
Like, they are so far from even American standards. There are businesses by the tens and hundreds who happened to pull out of states entirely just recently over stupid anti-LGBT legislations in the US. It's all over the news for the past months. US and EU are far more liberal when it comes to human rights, even despite differing opinions on the subject within all countries.
And yea, Caucasus? That sounds pretty Russian/Eastern EU. Just on the face of it.
SkeptiMism
Member
We can respect that they have their own opinion in that they can say it out loud and not go to jail for it (assuming it's legal).
But we don't have to respect that opinion specifically. It's pure bigotry.
It makes about as much sense as what they're saying.
maquiladora
Member
I guess some people wrongly assumed Russian based on the title of the game and due to things like how the Russian parliament voted to impose a law which made "Homosexual Propaganda" a crime. A vote that passed with only one abstention.
I did guess the developers were from some Caucasus region myself. But mainly because of the game title.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
I'm guessing this is a Russian game developer or something because they don't support LGBT so I go on Steam to find their Steam account. And they have joined some groups.
Turkey, Greenlight Dev, Steamworks Development, United Ukraine, and... Fat Furries? What?
Turkey, Greenlight Dev, Steamworks Development, United Ukraine, and... Fat Furries? What?
I do remember reading up on it and discussing it at the time (and I also remember seeing some of the same issues then, which is why I mentioned it, because this thread reminded me of that incident, however sensical or non-sensical that may be), it's just that my memory isn't the best so I'd forgotten a lot of it in the meantime. I do appreciate the reminder, though.
Which I did mention towards the end of my post so I'm not quite sure what you're getting at? Like I said, I think it's a complex issue and I'm not entirely sure what my position on it is in this specific case. I just like to make up my mind as I write, basically, so you should probably read my post more as a stream-of-consciousness-type thing. I apologise if that's confusing.
They're not Russian devs, but from Azerbaijan, which was a Soviet state.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
That makes it even funnier. Azerbaijan is falling apart.
michaelius
Banned
I don't know if this will translate to sales but they are getting publicity they could never afford thanks to the controversy.
SkeptiMism
Member
I'm saying that it's not any complex matter. It's pure hate speech that is done on work, and not at all similar to the Firefox thing.
Liking the product of a bigoted developer (or any creator) is a completely different issue.
GoodCoffeeJoey
Banned
Steam Store Description said:
The next Tom Clancy right here.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
I just hope the internet forgets about this game when it comes time for release. Let it fall on its face on it's own.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Well, this unknown game now has people talking about it .
Same here...I'd hate for this to become a hit based on being an anti-LGBT lightning rod for bigots.
TheSpoiler
Member
Publicity isn't always a good thing. Otherwise you'd see companies pulling stupid shit 24/7 that's offensive for attention. Eventually, the shitty people you are aiming for plateaus. You want customers that are not only buying your game, but returning as well. Even if this is his first and last game, he'd be far better off either appealing to that group or not saying shit, since he loses a potential amount of customers - many who'd come from Jim or Youtube's comments section to laugh at it.
Many of those people aren't even going to give it the time of day now.
Besides, the gaming community needs to spotlight stuff like this. You want change? Don't sweep stupid shit like this under the rug in fear of him getting more sales. Make it an open conversation. The more we do that, the less this shit will be tolerated.
Games like this rarely do. Hatred isn't the rule, it's the exception.
Depends how you define success/failure: exposure or profit. It goes on a case by case.
Hatred got some success because the game was controversial, not the developer, and it looked mildly interesting (destructive environments). Turned out to be a meh twin stick shooter, but it worked the controversy over time from both sides and appealed people wanting a "edgy" game. There was actually value in the game for some people.
However, this is all the developer. Their main marketing before this was free keys. They're getting the exposure no doubt, but it's a lot easier for people to support it vocally than throwing down money for a sub-par game just because they share prejudices against LGBT. Taking a small look into the game/company, it wouldn't be surprising if this is for a quick sales surge before cut the loses and run.
All that said, yeah, these people should get no attention. It's really not worth the risk of letting them profit off it, because that will only encourages others to do similar things. LGBT have enough issues without people pretending to be bigots to them.
You may be right, yeah. Like I said, I make up my mind as I write and writing something down/arguing against myself and with others usually helps me form an opinion so when I posted my first post I think my brain was really just throwing stuff at the wall (again, sorry if that's weird but that tends to be how I work). But yes, this was part of how they presented themselves as a company (even though the difference can sometimes be hard to tell on social media when it comes to small indie devs but even so, this was a promo for their game) so you can't count it as personal/private opinion.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
wat
"this decide" is funny, though.
"this decide" is funny, though.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
That's one way to get people talking about your inconsequential indie game
UcchedavÄda
Member
With I agree with you on the first two points being fucked up, the "religious propaganda" is apparently "Msgs from the Koran and such....", according to that reviewer. Considering the reviewer also claimed that this was "100% illegal", which suggests a rather skewed view of reality, I would personally want to see what exactly those messages are before judging them as "fucked up" rather than just a mere curiosity.
Yep. Unless you're really big or your entire business is based on a moral reputation, this is just going to help them overall. Any publicity really is good publicity for these guys. I guess the only silver lining is that I highly doubt they're ever going to get a major hit.
When I read the OP I expected it was going to be something like a player asked "I'm a gay rights supporter, give me a key" or something dumb like that. I... was not expecting the company to double down (in wonderfully bad grammar) on being jerks just for the sake of it.
Pathfinder
Member
This isn't going to get people to talk about their game though. It's going to get people to talk about them.
They can do whatever they want but that doesn't make their actions any less awful
-duskdoll-
Member
I don't know. The people who see this article and rush to buy the game are already homophobic jerks. I can't imagine a reasonable person wanting to support them after this.
What is it with these people and acting like they're being noble by responding like that? Do they not realize how shittily it reflects on them and their business? They could have said nothing or that they were out of keys if they really didn't want to give them to this person (which they should have done anyway )instead of showing their bigotry. I just don't get it.
Unfortunately they have achieved exactly what they wanted (needed?), exposure.
Sad init.
Poltergust
Member
They could've more easily just not give the player a key and not be an asshole. They went out of the way to insult the player. How do you think that's not a problem?
... Seriously?