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Developers. Please stop with the ten minute unskippable credits.
- Thread starter Vex_
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The Silver
Member
im not talking about you and the argument you're having, look at the line of quotes I was responding to
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Lets get rid of Olympic medals ceremonies too while we're at it.
Yeah, let's just replace it with a black screen with scrolling names that goes on for 20 minutes instead of an actual spectacle worth watching. Actors in plays should just sit in the back while a projector scrolls their names up a wall instead of going out and taking a bow.
The passion some of the devs might put into it still doesn't change that those are products made specifically to be sold to a certain audience and the whole design is made around the fact that it needs to be sold.
Basketball
Member
0-2 Threads
rough day huh
rough day huh
The whole argument is about whether or not credit rolls- which inherently include the important producers- should be mandatory, and following from that whether or not credit rolls are masturbatory or warranted. Going by some people's logic, we shouldn't even have medal ceremonies or the actors come and take a bow because "I'm here to watch the sports/play, not to watch the performers indulge themselves."
SuperStiltzkin
Member
I'm pointing out it's a shit comparison because:
A: How many plays and Olympic ceremonies do you go to in a year?
B: Medal ceremonies and actors taking a bow is actually worth watching instead of a 20 minute black screen with scrolling white names.
chillybright
Banned
The argument of game devs' passion does not fit this topic simply because the overly long credits in question are almost always in AAA games. And the contents decisions (such as preorder bonus and in game currency) rarely reflect the "artistic choice" of developers but those of publishers.
Indie games, which are somewhat the passionate project of small teams, won't have unbearably long credits.
Unless you put the name of all backers there.
Indie games, which are somewhat the passionate project of small teams, won't have unbearably long credits.
Unless you put the name of all backers there.
KirbKirb30
Member
A reasonable point.
CamHostage
Member
Ignore those people. The vast majority of us (actually, most everybody here, as far as I can read, though there is some rejection of the idea that credits are so important that they're more important than the consumers' interests) are not saying to do away with credits. They're just saying that credits can be done better than 20-40 locked-up minutes of scrolling text.
Kudos to you for enjoying them. Others don't get as much or any enjoyment from having to sit there for an extended period of time before their completion ratio and Trophy/Achievements get counted. So why not offer a choice?
There you are. Two different viewpoints from two experienced game developers. And if both of you introduced skippable cutscenes into your products, gamers of both viewpoints could enjoy the endings of your products and not find any argument with either one of your views.
entremet
Member
Eh, taking away credits is harsh, but many people agree that some credits are poorly implemented and could be done better.
A. It doesn't matter how many plays and Olympics games occur a year (or quadrennially) because the argument doesn't hinge on how many games people play.
B. This is entirely subjective and also besides the point. I don't watch the medal ceremonies, especially since you know who won by watching the actual event- the thing I'm there for- which potentially makes it more self-indulgent than a credits roll in a game where you're not probably not going to encounter anyone's name in a recognizable form in the entire playthrough.
Also, why are you characterizing all credits rolls as a black screen with white names? Hell, almost all of them at least include music on top of that, which I find worth sticking around for because I tend to like the specific credits roll tracks or the major musical themes of a particular work.
JasonUresti
Member
Bitch I paid them 60 dollars for their game, they can at least respect my time as a customer.
Kwansu Dudes
Member
I hate unskippable credits and end up doing something else. It's easier to Google who did what to find specific information. It'd be better if they included group photos and/or small video segments so they'd be exciting at least.
Edit:
This too.
Edit:
This too.
I dont get it. When I do what I do in these threads, I am speaking for the little man. I am representing those who do not have a voice! Please understand that this is not a contest! I am paving the way here. Even if it means putting my amazing reputation on the line, I still do it because I love my people.
People come up to me all the time and they say, "Hey vex! Can you you speak on these issues??! This and that?" And I say, "yes!"
And there are people who agree with me all throughout this thread! (check this page as well as the others ) I have many friends in this thread. Amazing support here. Just amazing. We're doing great out here. I'd say we are 1-1 to be honest I feel like a winner. I feel the opposition in this thread was WEAK to be honest. I really do.
So pls... vote VEX2016, and lets make gaming great again.
Look at these testimonies. I'm doing great work here!
Thanks guys. That was wonderful.
I think credits should be skippable. And if the game features a post-credits scene, skipping them should jump straight to it. And I say this as someone who always* watches the credits on the first playthrough.
*I did skip the Mirror's Edge Catalyst ones. I was tired of the game by that point, and couldn't bother myself with them.
*I did skip the Mirror's Edge Catalyst ones. I was tired of the game by that point, and couldn't bother myself with them.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Because that's what most of them are? Music doesn't make it not boring. If I wanna listen to it, I go on youtube.
And yes, it is subjective, this entire thing is subjective, which is why it should be OPTIONAL.
Everything is a waste of time if you wanna be philisophical. Our entire existence is just wasting time. But when I waste time, I wanna enjoy myself. Most critics agree that watching credits is a worse way to waste time than actually playing the game.
chillybright
Banned
That is a terrible analogy.
If we have to bring spectacle sports analogy into this argument, which I think is reaching already, a more fitting one would be a 20 min credit roll of all the names of those who made the game happen, including all participating athletes, their coaches, teammates, commentators and journalists (in all languages mind you), referees, drug testers, cleaning crews, the whole Olympic committee, stadium owner and maintenance/security staff, etc, while the main theme of Olympics in that year plays in the background.
In the context of the comparison, I assume RiverKwai was talking specifically about the minority against credit inclusion at all, hence them specifically saying "let's get rid of medal ceremonies." Superstilzkin came in and basically said "at least they're more interesting than a black screen with white text," missing the point that a medal ceremony is specifically to honor and give credit to the winning athletes, making it comparable to a credits roll in that vain, which is why I noted as such. I don't deny that credit rolls can be done a whole host of more entertaining ways, but I was debating a different point, however minute it was.
I'm not saying don't offer a choice, and I actually figured most games did nowadays, or at least allowed you to turn it off without losing progress or achievements. My main argument in here has been arguing for their general merit as an idea and their inclusion in games, particularly against people arguing with Krej and about "artist entitlement."
SuperStiltzkin
Member
I never said they don't serve the same purpose I'm saying one of em tends to be boring as fuck while the other isn't as much. And even still, they don't have everyone involved and their sponsors and shit come up on stage to all bow and take a medal. I'm pointing out why people actually like to sit through one and not the other.
Neko Godot
Member
Well, they all have families.
If you're going to argue against some random minority in a thread, you should at least have the decency to quote them or post soon after they did.
Riverkwai isn't arguing with that minority, he's simply making a shitty analogy. And if he WAS arguing with that mysterious minority several pages after someone expressed something even remotely close to that what those in favor of unskippable credits keep bringing up, it's still stupid.
Riverkwai isn't arguing with that minority, he's simply making a shitty analogy. And if he WAS arguing with that mysterious minority several pages after someone expressed something even remotely close to that what those in favor of unskippable credits keep bringing up, it's still stupid.
I've not actually argued for unskippable credits sequences (although I personally don't care if some artists include them. Artists should be able to do whatever they want).
It's not particularly philosophical and doesn't necessarily need to lead to a uselessly nihilistic conclusion. However, when we talk about something being a "waste of time," we're generally talking about something not being productive (not that not being productive is a bad thing). Engaging in mass-produced entertainment is on the bottom of the barrel of what it means to be productive, versus things like cleaning your house or spending time with friends and reaffirming bonds or volunteering for something or, ironically, creating art.
The point of the analogy was not to perfectly equivocate two different ways of giving credit. It was to compare the act of giving credit against the main event people were actually there for in order to highlight the silliness that was apparent in some arguments calling credit rolls and artist signatures an inherent waste of time.
Nobody is arguing for the removal of credits altogether. Just making it possible to skip past them.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Productivity is subjective. I'm producing good feelings when I plays games. Credits bore me. They're counterproductive to good feelings.
Heaven Shard
Banned
Sure. That's what I said about finishing the game not being registered sometimes, so you don't get the completion save and rewards if you skip. And all that does is annoy the player and making them leave to do something else rather than continue playing your game which is retarded and counterproductive from the game designers. They are basically saying 'stop using our product, be annoyed and go do something else'.
breadtruck
Member
This. Sit back and relax and revel in your accomplishment
Having the credits accessible from the main me u and can be skipped is the best idea. You don't have to beat the game again to watch the credits and you can skip if you want.
I do since I was very young. But that means I am always interested in game development which honestly is why I got the gig. Others might not.
I do since I was very young. But that means I am always interested in game development which honestly is why I got the gig. Others might not.
CamHostage
Member
Oh, okay, then there's a matter of confusion there we can clear up.
No, unfortunately, not all games allow skippable credits (and there's no standardization of whether Trophy/Achievement or Completion Ratio is calculated, so even if you are allowed to skip the credits, you don't know what the result will be if you hit the button.) It's particularly a problem with AAA games, which have extensively long credits that run 10, 20, 30, sometimes even 40 minutes long. If that wasn't the case, we pretty much wouldn't need to have this discussion.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I am much more annoyed by the unskippable logos and company names and whatever before you even started the game, gah.
Unskippable credits? Meh. I rarely ever watch credits--who among us do it, honestly? It's like expecting people to read terms and conditions before clicking I AGREE--but it doesn't bother me. You can just browse internet or do whatever during the credit rolls anywhere, if they don't interest you.
Come to think of it, credits that do interesting stuff in it like Godhand or Final Fantasy VIII are much appreciated by me.
Unskippable credits? Meh. I rarely ever watch credits--who among us do it, honestly? It's like expecting people to read terms and conditions before clicking I AGREE--but it doesn't bother me. You can just browse internet or do whatever during the credit rolls anywhere, if they don't interest you.
Come to think of it, credits that do interesting stuff in it like Godhand or Final Fantasy VIII are much appreciated by me.
First thing that came to mind.
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
Yeah, this is hardly a hindrance and I love when the people that worked hard on this stuff that I care dearly about get due cedit at the closing of a game.
Yabberwocky
Member
I try to sit through credits as much as possible, but sadly a few Ubisoft games have done me in.
I always enjoy the Telltale devs putting their pets in the credits! Telltale generally has some great credit music playing, too, which makes it a bit more enjoyable. I recently really enjoyed Oxenfree's credits, which used photos from the game throughout -
I always enjoy the Telltale devs putting their pets in the credits! Telltale generally has some great credit music playing, too, which makes it a bit more enjoyable. I recently really enjoyed Oxenfree's credits, which used photos from the game throughout -
and the pictures have changed slightly depending on your actions.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Doesn't bug me really. If the credits are cancelable, good.
If they're not I spend my time in another room and look in every half hour to see if the credits are done yet.
I do hope you credit people read the publisher's imprint carefully before you start reading a book. You're obligated to do so now.
If they're not I spend my time in another room and look in every half hour to see if the credits are done yet.
I do hope you credit people read the publisher's imprint carefully before you start reading a book. You're obligated to do so now.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
All that needs to be said.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
This is such a weird point of view for me. Sure you have the freedom to express yourself in whatever way you see fit as long as you don't harm others, but this kind of statement only truly works if you are living in a cave somewhere completely alone while truly independent of society and other people, and really don't care about the appraisal of others towards your work (btw, if you truly don't care, then why putting your name in the credits such an important thing to have? You say you don't care, but you want acknowledgment from others nonetheless?)
"I am making an art for me, not for others!" is such an... 'artsy' way of saying things, I guess. I'd call it naive and completely divorced from reality, though, especially when we talk about stuff like video games.
Cave Johnson
Member
They should take cues for the portal credits.
Unskippable credits is one of my biggest pet peeves with gaming, especially if the credits are 10+ minutes long. I think anything that removes you from the gameplay should be skippable. Paying developers respect isn't a good excuse, forcing me to look at a thousand names that I won't even read for 10+ minutes isn't paying respect, it's just making me frustrated with them for wasting my time. I'm paying them respect by buying their product.
Ambience7817x
Member
Credits should be interesting to watch at lease. DOOM did it well, in addition to smash bros. People are playing a game for interaction, and credits ruin that. Even when watching a cutscene, it leads up to a gameplay section. Credits end. A scene at the end isn't related to the credits. Assassin's creed 2 did it well too where you played a small Desmond mission against Vidic. Names are still attached to a thing, we are still watching it, and interacting with it. Our time is respected, we are still having fun, and names are attached to something. People shouldn't be forced to watch something. Skipping credits should be treated as skipping cutscenes, people worked hard on those too, but no one cares about that. Same with the Sub/Dub argument. People should have options, not locked into something because someone likes their way best
turnbuckle
Member
Booker.DeWitt
Member
make the credits skippable, but you get a trophy if you sit and watch until the end. problem solved
I can assure you that credits are more important than what you think.
Some outsourcing companies like TOSE, decided to not list their people in the credits because it will make the publisher in better image, and protect their interest so that their employee cannot use the credits as proof of resume.
I had also been in some talk when a team member is leaving the company in the middle of a project. They would be told that their name won't appear in the credits other than special thanks.
Holding players hostage with achievements and unlocks behind the credits is what I hate most. Don't even get to Alt+F4 the game in those cases.
Displaying credits after finishing the game is an archaic relict from movies anyways. Those need to do it because they can't put the credits anywhere else but the beginning or end. Games don't, as devs can just let you watch credits from the main menu. If the credits aren't even there for us gamers to read, as Kreijlooc (?) argues, why force them on us? With credits being only in the menu everyone should be happy.
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