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DF: Control vs DLSS 2.0: Can 540p Match 1080p Image Quality? Full Ray Tracing On RTX 2060?

pawel86ck

Banned
Yeah, one of the concerns I had in the developer thread on this. We've got some footage in motion now, which is great, but it'd still be wonderful to see some comparisons without AA.
Just want to rule out science entirely before I declare this to be using some form of black magic.

I wouldn't rush out to get a new CPU any time soon.
I have seen such comparisons in wolfenstein 2 youngblood and sharpness was just a little bit better in native 4K without any TAA. However shimmering and aliasing was ruining everything anyway, so it's not like people can play without any AA at all, and when you add AA (even SMAA or FXAA) then DLSS picture quality is superior.
 
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PhoenixTank

Member
I have seen such comparisons in wolfenstein 2 youngblood and sharpness was just a little bit better in native 4K without any TAA. However shimmering and aliasing was ruining everything anyway, so it's not like people can play without any AA at all, and when you add AA (even SMAA or FXAA) then DLSS picture quality is superior.
Whether people actually play with AA or not is irrelevant to what I'm asking. It'd help to provide a baseline for image quality comparison without TAA or another form of AA. As it stands now, I don't know if we have the full picture, so to speak.
Was this a DF video or somewhere else? You didn't mention - thanks in advance.
 

pawel86ck

Banned
Whether people actually play with AA or not is irrelevant to what I'm asking. It'd help to provide a baseline for image quality comparison without TAA or another form of AA. As it stands now, I don't know if we have the full picture, so to speak.
Was this a DF video or somewhere else? You didn't mention - thanks in advance.
Every AA blurs picture a little bit, so dont expect DLSS will match native 4K without any AA at all.

Here some comparison pictures from Wolfenstein youngblood (PNGs are very big so you have to wait a little until images will load)


 

CrustyBritches

Gold Member
However shimmering and aliasing was ruining everything anyway, so it's not like people can play without any AA at all, and when you add AA (even SMAA or FXAA) then DLSS picture quality is superior.
I spent some time watching the Riverside benchmark with 4 different approaches to AA: Disable, TAA, TSSAAx8, and DLSS 'Quality'. I agree with your sentiment that on AA disabled the shimmering and aliasing basically kills the visual experience in this game. I would rate TSSAAx8 a little better than TAA. Both are blurrier than DLSS Quality, so you lose some of the fine detail you'd have with AA Disabled or DLSS Quality. The one weakness I noticed with DLSS 'Quality' was on the pass in front of the Megatone building it had issues resolving the spray paint on the building in the right of the scene that says, "Fascistes" a bunch of times. As it pan and zoomed a bit, it caught the detail, so it's not perfect, but imo still better overall than anything else and with a ~40% performance uplift.
 
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I feel the same way. Unfortunately we are at the beginning of the Covid Console War so all that matters right now are SSDs and Teraflops
I think it's just that it's a little hard to believe. I mean, the sacrifices to implement this are nearly imperceptible during gameplay. A nearly 40% performance gain... on TOP of the potential TF gain from next gen cards and architecture... This makes RTX actually doable in nearly any game that would allow and use it unlike before where it would have been a big sacrifice to turn on. This will make the difference between consoles and PC RTX implementation absolutely enormous. So I think everyone is checking and double checking the actual real-time results implemented before their eyes, in game, on their hardware, before they go and shout "praise the sun!" And also wait to hear if/how this will impact more games. It's the right attitude to have and I wish console side would have the same instead of just trusting PR...
 
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CrustyBritches

Gold Member
What confuses me is the lack of posts/enthusiasm for this thread, this could be the biggest news for pc gaming this year.
Currently unknown whether it can be weaponized in the war against the enemy. I think in the PC space, at least here on GAF, it's kind of like "Cool, I'm glad I have it" or "Cool, I hope AMD has it on their next cards".
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I did some more testing using those 4 approaches: Disabled, TAA, TSSAAx8, and DLSS 'Quality'. There are some scenes in this game where AA disabled could almost give you a seizure from looking at it. The "X-Lab" benchmark in particular has not only your standard jaggies, but with RT 'On' and AA disabled the amount of noise/shimmer from the RT is crazy. In this case, you definitely need AA of some sort to help denoise the reflections or it looks like shit.

Example: RT 'On' AA Disabled vs RT 'Off' AA Disabled vs RT 'On' DLSS(AA controlled by DLSS)...


Video Link if Embedded Player on GAF function not working...AA Disabled vs DLSS Comparison Vid.

*Note* In the X-Lab benchmark, DLSS 'Quality' only provides ~20% boost in performance over Native. Not sure the reason(Lots of shiny/reflective surfaces, so DLSS is under heavier load?). Generally it's at least 33%.
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Additional comparison shots taken in-game: (selected 1280x720 portion of the 1440p image to avoid supersampling effect that occurs due to resizing for forum constraints)...

RT 'On', AA Disabled
Wolf-AA-Disabledpn22.png

RT 'On' TAA:
Wolf-TAApn22.png

RT 'On' TSSAA(8tx):
Wolf-TSSAAx8pn22.png

RT 'On' DLSS 'Quality'
Wolf-DLSS-Quality22.png


Full-size 1440p Shots(Being resized for the forum will create supersampling AA effect, MUST view native size):
RT 'On' AA Disabled
AA-Disabled1440ppn22.png

RT 'On' TAA
TAA1440ppn22.png

RT 'On' TSSAA(8tx)
TSSAAx81440ppn22.png

RT 'On' DLSS 'Quality'
DLSSQUALITY1440ppn22.png
 
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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
DLSS 2.0 is simply crazy !

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I can't wait for next-gen systems to have their version of DLSS. That way all games don't have to be "FORCED" to be made in native 4K. It's just a stupid resolution to force a game into. I wish devs next-gen will make games in 1800p like resolutions and just throw some DLSS on them.

Save those 31% of pixels in the rendering budget and apply it to ray tracing or something else.
 

KungFucius

King Snowflake
This definitely makes an nVidia upgrade more likely than an AMD one, but as with all card specific tech, I am worried nobody will support it. How good is MS's solution? Will the competing options be easy enough for devs to include all of them so we can dick around with the MS version and the GPU version?
 
This definitely makes an nVidia upgrade more likely than an AMD one, but as with all card specific tech, I am worried nobody will support it. How good is MS's solution? Will the competing options be easy enough for devs to include all of them so we can dick around with the MS version and the GPU version?
Everyone and their mother will be using this or similar tech going forward.

For team green DLSS runs on dedicated hardware, and it's already proven to work today. I wouldn't worry about support on the pc side. Big games will be getting it no doubt.
 
Absolutely mind blowing. Seeing the fps diff with close to no loss in perceivable detail and in fact some actual visual improvements unrelated to higher fps is almost unbelievable... This is like the best AA solution I've ever seen and a resolution and fps boost on top of it... All thanks to switching DLSS from the shader cores to the tensor cores. What a huge difference. This is going to take some time to really sink in I think.

Some new vids.





As someone who's fiddled for days with settings while modding and such there's just something therapeutic about watching that fps soar...
 
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Skyr

Member
Absolutely mind blowing. Seeing the fps diff with close to no loss in perceivable detail and in fact some actual visual improvements unrelated to higher fps is almost unbelievable... This is like the best AA solution I've ever seen and a resolution and fps boost on top of it... All thanks to switching DLSS from the shader cores to the tensor cores. What a huge difference. This is going to take some time to really sink in I think.

Some new vids.





As someone who's fiddled for days with settings while modding and such there's just something therapeutic about watching that fps soar...

Noticed that some of the very small text in the control video @ 1:43 becomes indeed unreadable with DLSS. I mean it's obvious that it's not gonna be able to perfom miracles for extremly fine details like that. Definitely worth the tradeoff tho.
 
Noticed that some of the very small text in the control video @ 1:43 becomes indeed unreadable with DLSS. I mean it's obvious that it's not gonna be able to perfom miracles for extremly fine details like that. Definitely worth the tradeoff tho.
Yeah, this is the only drawback I've seen so far and I think some of it at least has something to do with the sharpening filter which apparently is adjustable. Pulled this from the DF vid.

BbWfotw.png


I notice text do the same thing in games that I add sharpening to when modding.
 
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GymWolf

Member
What confuses me is the lack of posts/enthusiasm for this thread, this could be the biggest news for pc gaming this year.
i have to be honest, the technology is bananas, but i'm not gonna get excited for this stuff until they are gonna start to introduce it at launch for every game and not after several weeks or months.

as a guy who buy games at day one and don't play the same game multiple times it's pretty useless as for now.
i know that learning machine ia stuff request time for optimization on a single game case, but what is the point if you can't enjoy the performance when you actually play the game for the first time? just to wank on the performance gains weeks or montsh later?
i'm not enough pc master race to care about that.

make this 2.0 shit day one at least in the major games and i'm gonna run naked on the streets with my upscaled dick free to juggle in the fresh air.
 
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