Sounds like a dick thing for you to do.
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DF: Hands-On With Halo 5: Guardians: Tech Analysis/Frame-Rate Test [Gold Master Code]
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
Sounds like a dick thing for you to do.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
Precisely. I'm very happy about the 60fps, but developers/artists seem to have an over obsession with trying to cram too many details in your face even if it means popping them into view within feet of the player. It's a horrible trend in game design and wish it would stop. I would prefer a landscape that didn't have rocks, grass, and shrubs pop into existance.
sammyCYBORG
Member
Like removing split screen.
The Baron Count
Member
As long as we have need of LODs and streaming, which is to say forever, there will probably be some sort of pop in.
To be fair - if you're going to pick apart a game's visuals - it would be fair to have actual first hand pictures to use rather than analyze 3rd party videos and pictures that may have undergone compression upon upload (and not stated as such) as well as all context missing in the photo.
Also, considering the game is getting a gigantic zero-day patch, something like this could easily have been fixed in the actual release of the game.
They don't generally hang around here either.
If someone's going to cherry pick screenshots and be probably intellectually dishonest so preexisting beliefs and biases that have been repeatedly shown over a great many posts can be validated - yes, yes, that would qualify as being under "his fault".
As for the tech issues at hand - I'm fine with the trade-offs. The more games focus on just framerate and resolution only at the cost of artistic and technical upgrades - the worse off we are in the long-term at the beginning of a new generation. Give me my gorgeous games that push the hardware till its crying. Optimization will come in time over a generation's life span - I'd rather have the envelope pushed now rather than slightly upscaled PS3 / X360 games that run at 1080p / 60 FPS.
Collateral22
Member
It was removed due to technical issues. It's not worth sacrificing 60fps just to please a minority who still play split screen.
sammyCYBORG
Member
Split screen players are used to sub 60.
Split screen on MCC is sub 20 sometimes, and still fun. Rubbish excuse.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
Someone else called it low res lighting, I called it low-res prebaked lighting, which it is.
One of those is a morally wrong thing. Your moral compass decides which one I am referring to.
The Baron Count
Member
A rather important point to make.
I would love for more community managers and developers to come and interact with us on here, and I see exactly why they friggin don't.
I still remember one of the community guys for Nosgoth getting torn to bits for no good reason while he tried to speak to the fans as best he could on here.
Wait ... did a 343 developer just come on here and make fun of someone's junior status?
I don't care to argue with anyone,but I do want to - at least once - applaud 343 for prioritizing frame rate over graphics. Pretty graphics are cool for a while, but a few days after release, it's old news. Gameplay is what keeps me coming back. When I'm playing tmcc (when it's working)I don't make decisions on which game to play based on graphics. It is truly irrelevant to me. In fact id rather play H2 than any other Halo. Ask me what res the textures are in H2. Hell if I know or care.
sammyCYBORG
Member
Corporations don't care about you, you shouldn't care about them.
If they put the features in that have been consistent in the series before, I wouldn't even have to entertain this workaround. It's on them.
Issues like that are definitely surprising given how smooth the medium-frequency macrotexturing in Halo 4 is.
It certainly can be. Halo's environment lightmap is a texture (or, well, technically a few layered textures which each contain different aspects of the lighting data). Nothing odd about discussing texture resolution.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
I have nothing to apologise to you for because anyone should be able to call out a false statement of quality by one of the representatives of the game, even if they're an active poster on the same forum.
tattooed_dwarf
Member
If that's really the only thing you took from Stinkles post, then yes. However there is much more for the story if you think what he said.
Workaround? You want to play the game for free. The end. Justify it however you want. Doesn't make it less morally wrong.
I know it has last gen ports, but MGSV looks pretty damn impressive and runs very well.
Well, than it can go both ways. Every screenshot is cherry picked, both good and bad.
And i agree that the poster seems to have some form of bias(or agenda if you like) against the series.
But my point is, everything is used as fanboy ammunition nowadays. If his post was the best Halo 5 screenshots, showing how the game is great you can bet that it would be used as a counter-argument to criticism at some forum on the internet.
Edit: After reading the last exchange between Shin-ra and Stinkles i think the wise decision is to get out of this argument. They clearly have some non-resolved affairs and i don't want to be dragged into it.
Snkfanatic
Banned
Whatever helps you justify it I suppose...
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
I would not be surprised if that day one patch fixes it.
Portugeezer
Member
Stinkles post wasn't so crystal clear.
justgames7604
Member
He was juniored for a reason, has history with stinkles, etc, etc.
sammyCYBORG
Member
No, I want to buy the game and be able to play it with the person I live with. Buying an extra console and copy doesn't make it a free experience, just a really annoying way to do it.
SEGAvangelist
Member
He's not exactly a typical junior.
I'd be pretty interested to see how this game compares graphically to MGSV (Xbox One). The latter is 900p (consistently) I believe and runs at near enough a locked 60fps. On top of that it's open world and has full dynamic time of day and weather, plus it's a third party multi platform game. It would be fair to assume that Halo 5 should be the better looking game.
The Making of Uncharted: The Nathan Drake Collection interview that Digital Foundry did a couple days ago with Bluepoint was arranged only because Naughty Dog's Community Strategist posts on here.
We don't know the full story. They might have had to downscale encounter sizes to accommodate split screen, which if that was the case I would say they made the right decision.
Also IIRC Forge had big technical limitations because of splitscreen as well.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
I just think there is an actual solution to all of this.
There is an irony to these types of conversations. People often get offended at pointing out problems with graphics and performance. However a solution to the problem would be to realistically scale back the overall fidelity of a game to emphasize consistency in environments and frame rate. The irony is people will then start complaining about graphics. It's odd really.
I feel like the trend to "push the console as hard as possible" is actually a bad one. Sure, it makes for some good screenshots, but it also makes for extremely inconsistent visuals over the entire product. Some people push for resolution, some for texture quality, some for LOD consistency, some for lighting and particle effects, and some for framerate.
I wish consistency across all of those was the standard, instead of cherry picking which one they want to emphasize. It would decrease the overall fidelity, but make a much more consistent product and would steer the industry into the right direction IMO.
Yeah, that was a rough one, wonder if it happens frequently. Either way, pretty awesome that 343 managed to keep the performance optimal, even if there are some noticeable sacrifices.
justgames7604
Member
Are they active? Like how stinkles is?
I feel like I am missing something. I have no background in programming, but lighting is illumination, right? It doesn't sound like the unit measurement for illumination is resolution. Maybe Dictator can enlighten me a bit?
DarthWalden
Banned
Yes with a catch,
You'd have set his console as your "home" console and then just login on your own console with your GT. He would have access to your entire digital catalogue on his Console. The catch being that you would need to be logged in on your actual home console to play your games.
I'm remember playing every halo game at launch and ALWAYS being so disappointed with the graphics. No game truly lived up to halo ce for me.
Halo 5 seems to be the first exception.
digoutyoursoul
Member
What is exactly wrong with what I asked? It's obvious he has a stern interest in Halo and it's performance/visuals and I was enquiring if it could affect his purchasing decision. He's saying things like this:
"I don't have a problem with people praising the story, sound or mechanics, just the graphics."
Can't he accept difference of opinion?
super-heated plasma
Member
It's obvious Shin-Ra has a vested interest in making 343/Halo/Stinkles look bad. Sure he may have some legit criticism, but the reason he is pushing it is for less than virtuous means.
Why do you care what he does with his money? Especially when you don't even know for sure that he may end up enjoying the game and keeping it?
I mean, unless you think we took it away out of spite, perf is the ONLY reason it's not in there. We'll certainly be taking a look at better ways to optimize that feature on this platform in the future, but we didn't remove it for no reason. I've seen conspiracies that range from "to get people to buy more consoles" to "they wanted to put their own weird stamp on it." Thy are not true or rational.
But as Dark10 can probably explain more eloquently than me, it's not just that graphic fidelity per window causing the issue - it's the controls, the underlying simulation, the netcode, everything. It's not just graphics running at 60.
I'm bummed about it, and I have been fairly open about that, and I have yet to speak to a single dev on our team who wasn't bummed also. So "dicks" seems a bit harsh and personal given the nature of the "why.".
When the lightning is "baked" you calculate how light will influence the objects and create textures that represent that certain illumination using the light sources that are positioned on the scene.
Than you apply this textures as a lightmap (a new texture layer) that simulates how the light would behave if it were dynamic.
Halo 1, 2 and 4 were all really impressive graphically for their respective time period's imo. Hell, Halo 4 is probably still one of the best, if not the best looking game on the 360.
I am assuming they are talking about the resolution of the prebaked shadow maps. Which you can see is kind of low in certain parts of the game, in which blocky shadows are present.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
The issues I'm highlighting can't be blamed on video compression and the very thing I'm being accused of cherry picking pictures of Digital Foundry highlighted as well.
He was juniored for making people think a new Wipeout was coming out when it was actually Wipeout ships fpr Resogun. Don't know if his Halo thread had any part pf that