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[greenegt]

I would argue that they struck a good balance by trading some LOD for spectacle. Watching the gameplay in 60fps, the most striking thing is how much stuff there is going on in large spaces. When the game looks its worst is when the player will be the most distracted by what's going on around them. The one thing that player is likely to notice is a drop in framerate, and the game is managing to avoid that issue spectacularly.
The focus of the game is on large scale action and smooth gameplay, and it achieves this at the cost of less-than-gorgeous screenshots. It's the right move.

Excellent post. I cannot wait for Tuesday!

 

[Dragon]

Of course you care. It's why you responded childishly and attempted to discount the opinions of everyone at a gaming website because of...."reasons".

Giant Bomb has never been about judging graphics in video games. They are surface level and any discussion beyond the random fps, resolution type stuff is very rare. Do you have any evidence to counter my point? I'm discounting their opinions in graphics because they themselves have admitted more than once they're not about judging them.

 

[Septic360]

You will deffo notice the slow frame rate at longer distances in Warzone though. Because the MP and visuals are more plain, it will stick out a lot more.

I instantly recognised it. The distance isn't even that far tbh.

Game breaker? Not at all. Just a minor gripe.

Overall its super smooth and we are all in for a treat.

 

[DOWN]

Yeah but at that time in the 360's life.....what looked better? I can't think of anything that looked better than Halo 4
(Arguably GTA...but still)



True, I would still put halo 4 at the top 5 though of best looking games on 360

I think Gears of War 3 looks quite a bit more impressive than Halo 4, personally. Still an amazing looking game. Even features great object motion blur.

Gears of War 3 is the best looking game on 360 imo.

Which is weird, since its not even the latest one for that system.

Gears of War 3 is the best graphically for sure. Halo 4 is second place. Both deserve praise for really pushing 360 beyond expectations.

 

[DrowsyJungle]

Design wise I like what I'm seeing with how battles play out, and I'm liking everything from the weapons to ability's.
And this is coming from someone who was against these when I saw multiplayer, and my opinion on those may still hold true, but the campaign looks like they really took thing's to heart after Halo 4.
But it's hard to not see I feel 343 has bit more than it can chew and has made weird decisions in how they optimize the game for constant 60fps.

I'm no Direct X guru or wizard, but I wonder if they would have benefited development wise with having dx12, for development kit?
I wonder if once Windows 10 hits if there will be further optimization? From my little understanding games benefit according to spencer and the likes games only benefit if they are developed from the ground up with direct x 12?


If I am way off the mark then slap me or something. I just wonder if maybe Microsoft should have waited for their high profile game to benefit from a better development environment.
Because what they are doing to me is weird for optimization. It's probably just me, I'm just use to seeing resolution, AA, and some filtering getting changed to help stabilize frame rate.

Like kind fo what they did for Killzone:Shadowfall, they rendered it a way to have it close to 1080p, and changed some thing's (don't remember) to keep frame rate as close as they could to stable not 60 mind you.
Aesthetically and design wise it looks awesome. But the 30fps animation toggle, and weird texture loading/pop-in and variation in resolution is just baffling to me. When other studios just lock it at let's say an off resolution that would give them enough wiggle room to get 60 or depending on the game 30fps lock.

Very long post there...I'll keep it short here. I'd much rather have minor details lost and small resolution hits than to have frame drops, screen tearing and stuttering. Especially for a FPS.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Upgrading to 60fps was absolutely the right choice for Halo. Yes, it's a shame that MS skimped on the hardware and thus the graphics/resolution aren't better. It still looks nice enough though and from the bits I've watched, I haven't really noticed the resolution scaling.

High chance this is the best Halo game yet for me!

 

[Dictator93]

Aesthetically and design wise it looks awesome. But the 30fps animation toggle, and weird texture loading/pop-in and variation in resolution is just baffling to me. When other studios just lock it at let's say an off resolution that would give them enough wiggle room to get 60 or depending on the game 30fps lock.

The resolution and half rate animations are probably to separate things. Animiation updates are usually limited by the CPU. The game being 60fps means it is pushing everything pretty darn hard... I'd imagine the game has very high resource utilization. Otherwise you would not see the corners cut that are being cut.

 

[Cybit]

Gears of War 3 is the best looking game on 360 imo.

Which is weird, since its not even the latest one for that system.

Epic has insanely good coders and optimizers. There's a reason they went the "lets make engines" route. People forget how important the coders and optimizers are compared to the hardware. Because we're in the beginning of the X1/PS4 gen - the hardware differences are a much bigger factor now than they probably will be 4-6 years from now - especially if NX adopts similar architecture and more stuff starts becoming X1 / PS4 / PC / NX multiplatform.

 

[Troy]

Giant Bomb has never been about judging graphics in video games. They are surface level and any discussion beyond the random fps, resolution type stuff is very rare. Do you have any evidence to counter my point? I'm discounting their opinions in graphics because they themselves have admitted more than once they're not about judging them.

You don't have to be an expert in judging graphics to tell the difference between something that looks shit, something that looks merely OK and something that blows you away. So no, I won't discount their opinion, because doing so would be dumb. Because then I'd have to discount Goldglove, a pc gamer who does actually judge graphics, who was blown away by what he saw of the game yesterday as well. Again, I'll trust them over someone studying a still shot every single day of the week.

 

[etta]

You're always seeing something that's lit, unless you're talking about Skybox?

You could have some light source, but you wouldn't be able to see it. Because there isn't any object to reflect/refract the light into the camera.

Say you have a weak or faint light bulb, and you are in a room with four walls and ceiling/floor, so there's no other light source.
If you use that light bulb, it still lights up some of the open space in the room, the particles in the air, even though it's faint enough that it doesn't reach any of the floor/ceiling/walls to light up their textures.
This is the lighting I mean, not its product: shadows. The low-res shadows can have their resolution increased without changing the lighting, right? Since lighting/luminosity is measured by intensity, power, accuracy...etc, not resolution.

 

[Freiya]

It's absolutely a theme. There is very little wiggle room for "opinions" when it comes to technology. There is more in the case of Halo 5 because we are talking about a game that clearly had to make compromises to achieve a very lofty goal.

However, what someone thinks looks good almost never has anything to do with an evaluation of the tech powering it. This kind of thing goes back for friggin ever. There are always games that are technically impressive that someone doesn't like the look of. But it simply has no bearing on the discussion.

There are very few games pulling off what 343 are pulling off. Every dev that shoots for 60FPS has to make sacrifices and if we look closely at this, we can see that different devs are willing to sacrifice in different areas.

If someone is comparing this game to standards set by games running at half the frame rate and they don't see the issue there, then they are probably ignorant. If someone is comparing this game to a game like Battlefront which runs at 720p and still doesn't meet the performance target they set for themselves and thinks that it is an accurate parallel, then they are pretty much being irrational.

Halo 5 is technically impressive taken as whole, period. But there are certainly aspects that are not and discussing those things is fine, but it's not productive to a technical discussion unless a person some idea of why sacrifices like that are made in the first place, instead of just pointing these things out with some unsaid implication of the incompetence of a developer.

I feel like you are making it a lot more complicated then it really is and trying to make sure halo is kept in it's own little bubble that nothing else can penetrate. At the end of the day I personally don't care if the campaign is 60 fps nor do I care to set that as some criteria for being able to compare Halo to other games. I definitely can understand where you are coming from though. I just don't feel obligated to give devs any slack. I want my games to look amazing and run well. Halo 5 doesn't look amazing to me but it runs well. Graphics as a whole are a part of tech discussion and there is nothing wrong with comparing graphics from one game to the next. It doesn't matter what limits devs set on themselves. Almost no comparison is ever truly apple vs apple.

 

[Yurikerr]

I know people already said this, but watching the DF video again i can't stand how claustrophobic the helmet HUD is.

Maybe you'll just get used to it (like black bars) but it seems so unnecessary.

Say you have a weak or faint light bulb, and you are in a room with four walls and ceiling/floor, so there's no other light source.
If you use that light bulb, it still lights up some of the open space in the room, the particles in the air, even though it's faint enough that it doesn't reach any of the floor/ceiling/walls to light up their textures.
This is the lighting I mean, not it's product: shadows. The low-res shadows can have their resolution increased without changing the lighting, right? Since lighting/luminosity is measured by intensity, power, accuracy...etc, not resolution.

Now i think i understood your question.

Yes, the lightmaps resolution are not dependent of the light sources proprieties. Normally their size is reduced to save performance/memory.

 

[Lettuce]

FPS will always be king!!!

 

[gtj1092]

Of course you care. It's why you responded childishly and attempted to discount the opinions of everyone at a gaming website because of...."reasons".

You said you would listen to giantbomb because they have the game. But digital foundery has the game too and they are actually experts in graphics and the person who created the video in the OP (dark1x) seems to agree that the flaws people are pointing out are legit. So yes you are just picking the outlet that is telling you what you want to hear.

 

[Stinkles]

Stinkles will never escape this

Bonus points for this cameo Frank!

You can't escape your destiny.

 

[jett]

343i made the right choice. 60fps is ALWAYS the right choice. If only all developers shared that mindset, the gaming sphere would be a better world.

I see people making a big deal about half-rate animations. It's not that uncommon. As of E3, you know what other game does that? Have fun not noticing dem 15fps animations in the background.

 

[dark10x]

I know people already said this, but watching the DF video again i can't stand how claustrophobic the helmet HUD is.

Maybe you'll just get used to it (like black bars) but it seems so unnecessary.

You do not get used to it. I absoulety hate it. Really hope they offer an option to toggle it in the future. I did the same with Metroid Prime back in the day and they at least used the visor for visual effects (like steam and water droplets).

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

I never noticed, it looks like that girl in the back is pretty interested in your stick, Stinkles.

 

[Sesuadra]

I know people already said this, but watching the DF video again i can't stand how claustrophobic the helmet HUD is.

Maybe you'll just get used to it (like black bars) but it seems so unnecessary.

especially if you think about the fact that it is not in the MP and the framerate stays @ 60 even in third person mode.

You do not get used to it. I absoulety hate it. Really hope they offer an option to toggle it in the future. I did the same with Metroid Prime back in the day and they at least used the visor for visual effects (like steam and water droplets).

shit I was afraid that would be the case.

Stinkles, would you mind asking if they could do that ^^"? a "simple" on/off helmet HUD button ._." just make it transparent or something like that.

 

[AlphaDump]

I think they are making smart design choices to mitigate the bells and whistles 30 fps would provide. Everything has a stark contrast, blues almost look fluorescentfor example. It really makes everything pop out nicely.

Would like to see more of that in games.

 

[Dragon]

You don't have to be an expert in judging graphics to tell the difference between something that looks shit, something that looks merely OK and something that blows you away. So no, I won't discount their opinion, because doing so would be dumb. Because then I'd have to discount Goldglove, a pc gamer who does actually judge graphics, who was blown away by what he saw of the game yesterday as well. Again, I'll trust them over someone studying a still shot every single day of the week.

You're creating things again. My response was directly about the relationship between video game graphics and Giant Bomb.

I'm not sure what Goldglove has to do with Giant Bomb either.

Anyway, enjoy the ignore list, I gave you more than a handful of opportunities to have a reasonable discussion and you failed every one.

 

[Garrett 2U]

That frame rate is sooo good!
One more week

I see people making a big deal about half-rate animations. It's not that uncommon. As of E3, you know what other game does that? Have fun not noticing dem 15fps animations in the background.

I can't wait for the Shin-Ra tech analysis!

 

[Troy]

You said you would listen to giantbomb because they have the game. But digital foundery has the game too and they are actually experts in graphics and the person who created the video in the OP (dark1x) seems to agree that the flaws people are pointing out are legit. So yes you are just picking the outlet that is telling you what you want to hear.

I trust them as well. Framerate is a huge part of how a game looks. DF praised it for looking great. I also trust them when they say the FOV combined with a claustrophobic helmet hurts gameplay. A terrible FOV is definitely not something you get used. See: Destiny. You just learn to live with it.

 

[etta]

I see people making a big deal about half-rate animations. It's not that uncommon. As of E3, you know what other game does that? Have fun not noticing dem 15fps animations in the background.

I can't wait for the Shin-Ra tech analysis!

lol

 

[Stinkles]

I know people already said this, but watching the DF video again i can't stand how claustrophobic the helmet HUD is.

Maybe you'll just get used to it (like black bars) but it seems so unnecessary.

Several reasons (none technical) but the number 1 is obviously immersion (subjective, I know but in Campaign you genuinely feel like you're that guy, in a mission, in the thick of it)

Secondly - each character has his/her own HUD and different shaped borders - and you start to "feel" like you're in that character on subsequent playthroughs in co-op.

And of course it's "off" in MP and when flying/driving.

 

[Sesuadra]

I trust them as well. Framerate is a huge part of how a game looks. DF praised it for looking great. I also trust them when they say the FOV combined with a claustrophobic helmet hurts gameplay. A terrible FOV is definitely not something you get used. See: Destiny. You just learn to live with it.

but in this case they could help us with a switch !

Spoiler

will probably never happen

And of course it's "off" in MP and when flying/driving.

the MP example was just used so people don't say it is a performance decision , would just be nice to have a choice you know.

 

[HTupolev]

Say you have a weak or faint light bulb, and you are in a room with four walls and ceiling/floor, so there's no other light source.
If you use that light bulb, it still lights up some of the open space in the room, the particles in the air, even though it's faint enough that it doesn't reach any of the floor/ceiling/walls to light up their textures.
This is the lighting I mean, not its product: shadow. The low-res shadows can have their resolution increased without changing the lighting, right? Since lighting/luminosity is measured by intensity, power, accuracy...etc, not resolution.

Intensity, color, direction are properties that incident lighting can have.

In a lightmapped approach, these properties are stored into a texture. When calculating lighting for some object in space, it's not "I'm being lit by this light that's at this location", but "the lightmap at my location says there's this much light coming from this direction." Properties like intensity, color, and direction don't have spatial resolution, but the texture that they're stored into does.

There are other approaches that allow shadow resolution to be separated from lighting information, although they have their own caveats and compromises.

 

[Yurikerr]

You do not get used to it. I absoulety hate it. Really hope they offer an option to toggle it in the future. I did the same with Metroid Prime back in the day and they at least used the visor for visual effects (like steam and water droplets).

especially if you think about the fact that it is not in the MP and the framerate stays @ 60 even in third person mode.



shit I was afraid that would be the case.

Stinkles, would you mind asking if they could do that ^^"? a "simple" on/off helmet HUD button ._." just make it transparent or something like that.

Ow, that's really sad. As someone who likes the hud to be cleanest as possible, even turning everything off when there's a option this is disappointing.

But i imagine that implementing the option to turn it on/off is a simple task.

Several reasons (none technical) but the number 1 is obviously immersion (subjective, I know but in Campaign you genuinely feel like you're that guy, in a mission, in the thick of it)

Secondly - each character has his/her own HUD and different shaped borders - and you start to "feel" like you're in that character on subsequent playthroughs in co-op.

And of course it's "off" in MP and when flying/driving.

So it's basically a stylish decision to help with immersion and characterization.

I understand the motives, but i really think that a toggle would be welcome.


I don't know why, but i'm having some deja vu. I feel like we (GAF) already discussed other "controversial" developer option like this before. Maybe The Order: 1886 camera position?

 

[Troy]

but in this case they could help us with a switch !

Spoiler

will probably never happen

the MP example was just used so people don't say it is a performance decision , would just be nice to have a choice you know.

I just started watching some Warzone footage and noticed there wasn't a visor blocking the view anymore so my assumption that it was tied to performance was wayyyyy off. And I think Chief's visor doesn't block that much either.

On another note, is Warzone inspired by Titanfall? It looks incredibly fun and far more involved than Titanfall.

 

[QuantumSquid]

Those visuals are shit! Goddamn!

should have went the gears ue route

I'm tired of living in a world where if a game doesn't look eye-meltingly gorgeous, people say it looks like shit.

Is it the most amazing looking game ever created? No, but it has perfect 60 and still looks pretty good despite the sacrifices they had to make for the higher framerate.

Thank god they didn't go the Gears UE route, that game runs at 30 fps (assuming we're talking campaign here) and still has framerate issues in certain parts of the game, especially in co-op.

Major props to 343 for prioritizing framerate. Looks like they did a great job given the Xbox One's hardware. Can't wait to play the game for myself in a mere 5 and a half days.

 

[Caayn]

Ow, that's really sad. As someone who likes the hud to be cleanest as possible, even turning everything off when there's a option this is disappointing.

But i imagine that implementing the option to turn it on/off is a simple task.

Play with the Blind skull enabled. The blind skulls disables the HUD

 

[digoutyoursoul]

I'm tired of living in a world where if a game doesn't look eye-meltingly gorgeous, people say it looks like shit.

Is it the most amazing looking game ever created? No, but it has perfect 60 and still looks pretty good despite the sacrifices they had to make for the higher framerate.

Thank god they didn't go the Gears UE route, that game runs at 30 fps (assuming we're talking campaign here) and still has framerate issues in certain parts of the game, especially in co-op.

Major props to 343 for prioritizing framerate. Looks like they did a great job given the Xbox One's hardware. Can't wait to play the game for myself in a mere 5 and a half days.

People need to make their minds up really, the desire for 60fps games was strong going into this gen and this is a 60fps game

 

[neogaffer1]

visor never bothered me. in fact i quite liked its inclusion, reminded me of republic commando. (shrug)

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Locked 60 over everything.

343 are wizards of optimisation

 

[Twilight Gap]

People need to make their minds up really, the desire for 60fps games was strong going into this gen and this is a 60fps game

and then people realized how hard 60fps was. Maybe this will jog their memories.

 

[L4nnist3r]

Several reasons (none technical) but the number 1 is obviously immersion (subjective, I know but in Campaign you genuinely feel like you're that guy, in a mission, in the thick of it)

Secondly - each character has his/her own HUD and different shaped borders - and you start to "feel" like you're in that character on subsequent playthroughs in co-op.

And of course it's "off" in MP and when flying/driving.

I really like the HUD design decisions from 343, like Stinkles mentioned it really help with the immersion as you really feel like you are the character. I agree that multiplayer should have a less prominent HUD though.

Locked 60 over everything.

343 are wizards of optimisation

definitely agree with this. Just give me buttery smooth gameplay. Low textures and pop in aside the game as a whole look great.

 

[Yurikerr]

Play with the Blind skull enabled. The blind skulls disables the HUD

What is this Blind Skull option? A game modifier? (Halo noob here)

 

[Troy]

and then people realized how hard 60fps was. Maybe this will jog their memories.

Hopefully it will inspire more devs to follow suit.

What is this Blind Skull option? A game modifier? (Halo noob here)

Yes, skulls are game modifiers. Usually to the detriment of the player to make it harder. Some are just fun. Like the birthday party skull that sprays confetti on head shots.

 

[Gnasher]

Looks amazing. 60 fps definitely the right choice, looks great too!

 

[Sesuadra]

Play with the Blind skull enabled. The blind skulls disables the HUD

but it disables the whole HUD..it's just about the helmet border

Spoiler

yes I know you made a joke. but this is no time for jokes. XD

I really like the HUD design decisions from 343, like Stinkles mentioned it really help with the immersion as you really feel like you are the character. I agree that multiplayer should have a less prominent HUD though.

and I don't understand what the problem would be with a choice. You could play with it, Stinkles could play with it and I could play without it >>

 

[etta]

Intensity, color, direction are properties that incident lighting can have.

In a lightmapped approach, these properties are stored into a texture. When calculating lighting for some object in space, it's not "I'm being lit by this light that's at this location", but "the lightmap at my location says there's this much light coming from this direction." Properties like intensity, color, and direction don't have spatial resolution, but the texture that they're stored into does.

There are other approaches that allow shadow resolution to be separated from lighting information, although they have their own caveats and compromises.

I mostly understand now; however, the warmth/colour/intensity of lighting changes from level to level, meaning that there is some of this spatial lighting that is independent of the textures on the objects.

EDIT:

Here's what I mean. Do you see how the spatial lighting is different across the 3 different lighting models? If you look at the gun, and how the gun is lit, the lighting looks to have different properties.

 

[Tagyhag]

Based 343, it's refreshing to see a console dev not buy into the bullshit.

 

[Papacheeks]

Very long post there...I'll keep it short here. I'd much rather have minor details lost and small resolution hits than to have frame drops, screen tearing and stuttering. Especially for a FPS.

Halo 4 was 30fps? I think locking it at 30 for the campaign, and having better image quality, and unified animations would have benefited them,

These sacrifices could have been made for multiplayer.

 

[L4nnist3r]

but it disables the whole HUD..it's just about the helmet border

Spoiler

yes I know you made a joke. but this is no time for jokes. XD

and I don't understand what the problem would be with a choice. You could play with it, Stinkles could play with it and I could play without it >>

Life doesn't always go your way, its just the way it is. Choice would have been good though.

 

[Cybit]

343i made the right choice. 60fps is ALWAYS the right choice. If only all developers shared that mindset, the gaming sphere would be a better world.

I see people making a big deal about half-rate animations. It's not that uncommon. As of E3, you know what other game does that? Have fun not noticing dem 15fps animations in the background.

Shhh...that kinda talk isn't allowed here.

That frame rate is sooo good!
One more week

I can't wait for the Shin-Ra tech analysis!

<popcornsogood.gif>

and then people realized how hard 60fps was. Maybe this will jog their memories.

Yeeeep.

 

[Yurikerr]

Yes, skulls are game modifiers. Usually to the detriment of the player to make it harder. Some are just fun. Like the birthday party skull that sprays confetti on head shots.

Hahahaha, nice.

Game modifiers are awesome. I really like Doughnut Drake in Uncharted.

I miss the old Big Head days.

 

[DrowsyJungle]

I'm impressed how 343 has been able to make the jump to 60fps. Not many people realize how much work is involved basically completely redoing an entire engine, on top of that switching to a new platform. I'm sure it was a decision that was made early on in development. But as always... Gameplay >>>> Graphics ....slow clap

 

[DrowsyJungle]

Halo 4 was 30fps? I think locking it at 30 for the campaign, and having better image quality, and unified animations would have benefited them,

These sacrifices could have been made for multiplayer.

Eh, moving from 30fps to 60fps is pretty jarring to me. I don't think the gameplay would have worked out. Plus you have to think of the time it takes to basically have 2 different render targets...when you're working on just 1, it makes a huge difference on development time.

 

[Troy]

Hahahaha, nice.

Game modifiers are awesome. I really like Doughnut Drake in Uncharted.

I miss the old Big Head days.

The problem I had with skulls in past games is that they hide them to well. I just watched a guy on Twitch trying to find one in Halo 5 and he kept failing to make the jump to where he thought it was. So he ended up driving a warthog up a flight of stairs to gain something to jump off of to get him closer to the ledge. He made it and there was no skull. It was funny.

 

[Obliterator]

Congrats to Stinkles and 343. That rock solid 60fps gameplay is damned impressive. Great job on that engine guys and gals. Getting that thing that smooth had to take some huge effort.

Fingers crossed the final game is awesome, my hype is really starting to spike up for this bad boy.