Md Ray
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[DF] Hitman 3 PS5 vs Xbox Series X|S Comparison
- Thread starter Tickle My Tendies
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- Analysis
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Silent Viper
Banned
One X doesn't have 60fps option while Pro does which is weird coz last 2 games had 60fps option on One XIT'S A CONSPIRACY
You seem to be getting your takes from Twitter and/or the Spec Thread, as these VR excuses are the hot spin going right now.
Your first two questions don't make sense. A.) Why would PS5 be tied to the Pro version (which doesn't even run at 1800p, does it?) and the XsX version isn't tied to the One X version? PS5 has the updated settings over the last gen version. B.) Would PS4 VR affect the PS5 version of a game? They are totally separate things.
Your third question: Yes, I will give you this. It could be a bug. We have seen this in Dirt 5, Valhalla, etc. NG native versions of games have been a little rocky to start this gen, for sure. Very possible.
Your last question: this is back to the "headroom" argument. Locked 60 at 1800p doesn't mean there is headroom for 4k, it means 1800p is the resolution it needs to run at locked 60. What you're saying is like saying "Well I can run this game at 1440p/60, so I should be able to run it at 1800p/60, and since it runs at 1800p/60, I should be able to run at 4k/60."
It isn't the whole Mendoza level. It is one part of it. Dips/drops happen in even the smoothest of games.
Quote from the article, in OP, says One X is 1440/60, which is what would be compared to the 4k/60 mode on XsX
How dare they!
I lol'd. I am stealing this
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
No conspiracy, my man. But I look at DF for more technical queries and understanding. They haven't been providing these insights that I've come to expect from them. This video was another example of that.IT'S A CONSPIRACY
You seem to be getting your takes from Twitter and/or the Spec Thread, as these VR excuses are the hot spin going right now.
Your first two questions don't make sense. A.) Why would PS5 be tied to the Pro version (which doesn't even run at 1800p, does it?) and the XsX version isn't tied to the One X version? PS5 has the updated settings over the last gen version. B.) Would PS4 VR affect the PS5 version of a game? They are totally separate things.
Your third question: Yes, I will give you this. It could be a bug. We have seen this in Dirt 5, Valhalla, etc. NG native versions of games have been a little rocky to start this gen, for sure. Very possible.
Your last question: this is back to the "headroom" argument. Locked 60 at 1800p doesn't mean there is headroom for 4k, it means 1800p is the resolution it needs to run at locked 60. What you're saying is like saying "Well I can run this game at 1440p/60, so I should be able to run it at 1800p/60, and since it runs at 1800p/60, I should be able to run at 4k/60."
It isn't the whole Mendoza level. It is one part of it. Dips/drops happen in even the smoothest of games.
1. And tbh, I haven't even checked Twitter yet (I don't have a Twitter account), so not sure what's going on there. But there was talk that PSVR couldn't handle PS5 games. So, again from an academic POV, I'd want DF to confirm that something like "we can rule out the PSVR impact, because it doesn't have any impact and here is why ... ", so we could cut it down from the list.
2. I don't know what res the PS4 Pro version runs at. But this is a point that again DF could anticipate and answer, e.g., "We investigated if the difference is because of any BC component, and the PS4 Pro runs at a lower resolution than 1800p, so we can rule that out as well."
3. You agree.
4. "headroom" -- I think it is a very valid question. XSX drops frames also when you snipe (alpha effects and all). It's a logical case study to see if the resolution could be increased on the PS5 versions because it does not drop even a single frame -- whatever the scenario is. Of course they couldn't test it, but they could reach out to the developers and asked about it, as they so often do.
I am not pointing fingers because there is a "hidden conspiracy". My argument is that they just accepted the results and the performance difference because XSX is "more powerful on paper". When PS5 outperformed XSX, they thought it wasn't possible and reached out to developers, talked about possible bugs, late tools, etc. Both consoles are very similar, so similar investigations and efforts should be made when XSX outperforms PS5 (which it will in plenty of games this gen I'm sure, as the PS5 will outperform XSX).
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
So we can't ask valid questions now?
When PS5 outperforms XSX, we go into full Batman mode -- reaching out to developers, late dev kits, immature GDK, investigating possible bugs, waiting for patches etc.
If XSX outperforms PS5, can we at least ask a simple question: If PS5 is locked 60 FPS when XSX drops frames in certain situations, could the PS5 be native 4K and drop frames in those similar circumstances? Or could the shadow settings be higher on PS5 without affecting performance?
These aren't mental gymnastics, but valid questions.
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Silent Viper
Banned
PS5 having less gpu bandwidth cant probably push 4k Ultra textures and shadows at same time. So that's why 1800p at medium shadows.
Mendoza level had even more effects going, so it was even taxing on SX which pushing way more resolution and higher shadows
Mendoza level had even more effects going, so it was even taxing on SX which pushing way more resolution and higher shadows
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Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
Get help. Please
Silent Viper
Banned
You have PC? Try Mendoza level. On Ryzen 3080 pc, i see minor drops in Mendoza at 4k60 ultra
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
When I think of power I think of performance.
Silent Viper
Banned
And Another usual dumb post from you.XSX
PS5
1800p vs 2160 = 20%
60fps (actually more than 60fps to have solid 60fps all the time) vs 41fps = 46.%
46.3 - 20 = more than 26.3% advantage for PS5
Another usual win for PS5.
So you playing the game, right?
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Nah it's a tie.XSX
PS5
1800p vs 2160 = 20%
60fps (actually more than 60fps to have solid 60fps all the time) vs 41fps = 46.%
46.3 - 20 = more than 26.3% advantage for PS5
Another usual win for PS5.
Sadly the Xbox bias don't see it this way.
Md Ray
Member
From 41 to 60 is already a 46% difference, and in favour of PS5. Ofc, it'd actually more than that internally (over 60+fps if you disable V-sync/fps cap), so PS5 could be delivering over 50% more frame-rates at any given time.
Silent Viper
Banned
That blue flower area is tiny section, not a big deal. You don't stay there for even 60secs lol
Utherellus
Member
Not so fastXSX
PS5
1800p vs 2160 = 20%
60fps (actually more than 60fps to have solid 60fps all the time) vs 41fps = 46.%
46.3 - 20 = more than 26.3% advantage for PS5
Another usual win for PS5.
Silent Viper
Banned
SX higher quality shadows is culprit over 4k resolution for drops in Mendoza level. On PC if u reduce shadows to medium then no frame rate drops there in blue flower area.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
We know you aren't.
Hypocrite much?
Silent Viper
Banned
Pics too blurry? What's the frame rate?Not so fast
Silent Viper
Banned
Im playing the game. Are u?
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Not so fast
So DF didn't notice that with their extensive breakdown? Could easily be XSX gameplay rebranded.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Yes, I think an update will follow up for both as (favor resolution, favor performance) with one having solid 60fps or native 4K. Just like 1080@60fps mode for Yakuza on XSX to have no drops like in 1440p mode.
So far it's 44% resolution advantage for XSX, and more than 46% performance advantage for PS5.
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Silent Viper
Banned
Lol Give this guy a hug. He about to cry over this losslol. There's R2 button prompt in screenshot lol
Hitman levels are massive, so its not possible for DF to analyse frame rate from every part of level. But you wouldn't know as u dont have the game lol
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freefornow
Gold Member
XSX
PS5
1800p vs 2160 = 20%
60fps (actually more than 60fps to have solid 60fps all the time) vs 41fps = 46.%
46.3 - 20 = more than 26.3% advantage for PS5
Another usual win for PS5.
Touches 45fps
Utherellus
Member
"Rebranded" lmao. Let's just ignore PS buttons in the gameplay.
Yes, DF sometimes miss stuff. Or They got lucky and drops don't appear on every machine.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
It's one of the 6 stages.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Exactly this. That's the question I wanted DF to answer. They didn't. And when I mentioned it on this forum, people started getting angry at me lol.
I wouldn't say that "PS5 would outperform XSX", but it's a question that must be answered: how far will the PS5 go in resolution until it starts suffering from the same frame rate drop issues that XSX is having.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
I have it. But haven't touched it lol
Snake29
Banned
Utherellus
Member
Loving your math skills so far.
it's 30% not 20
And PS5 also drops to forties. But with lower resolution and worse shadows. It's a wrap.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Loving your math skills so far.
it's 30% not 20
And also PS5 drops to forties. But with lower resolution and worse shadows. It's a wrap.
So it's more than 16% advantage overall for PS5.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
It's ok Bo. You dont need to come into every console warrior thread defending. Even many of the other Sony fans didn't bother posting in this thread.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
There's definitely some people who will never give Microsoft or Xbox a W, I think they get it from bad influence PS-centric Youtubers, personally
I don't think the hallway scene means anything tho, because turns out it was a fake. And...I really don't know why someone would feel the need to fake that xD. So I think DF's analysis will more or less hold up: just that one part in the field and with some sniper scope camera changes where Series X framerate takes a dip (the latter reminds me of the panorama bit in 2K21 on Series X that caused a similar issue); Valhalla had a similar issue on Series X with the infamous torch and one spot inside a building that was fixed up, but it came with lowering the resolution. Will be interesting to see if a fix here on Series X for those small bits will retain 4K resolution or briefly use DRS.
And to that effect, PS5 seemingly holding locked 60 but at 44% lower resolution; I know there's an argument that it could maybe hold higher resolution but maybe that would've required DRS and I'm sure IO Interactive tried this, not liking the results (lower bound resolution in DRS could've had gameplay-affecting results), and therefore scrapped that approach. Maybe if they try squeezing a bit more optimization in a future update they can bump the resolution up a bit more while keeping the framerate locked at 60.
It's a 44% resolution advantage for Series X. 3200 * 1800 = 5,760,000. 3840 * 2160 = 8,294,400. 8,294,400/5,760,000 = 1.44 or 44%.
Also it's actually a much lower cumulative perf. advantage for PS5 because you have to take the entire game into account, not just one section of one area. Outside of that one spot in that particular area it is 60 for both versions, and that area (for the time you are there in the game) is likely less than 1% of total game time.
Due to that perf. advantage would be virtually identical for both versions.
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Silent Viper
Banned
Blue flower is tiny area in the level. Frame rate is 60 most of the time in that level once you not hiding in flowers
And PS5 drops frame rate too in Dubai level
3:26 mark.
Levels are massive, so u can't analyse every area
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Utherellus
Member
dude wtf. PS5 drops to 45fps with 1800p and worse shadows. About which advantage on earth are we talking about.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
That's because Bo is purposely trying to miscalculate 1800p --> 2160p = 360p = 20%. But when it comes to pixel count (with both horizontal and vertical) it's always a totally different kind of calculation when total pixels are used.Loving your math skills so far.
it's 30% not 20
And PS5 also drops to forties. But with lower resolution and worse shadows. It's a wrap.
He knows what he's doing. Due for another banning as he's trying to FUD the thread with bogus math, even though he's someone who seems to chime in with specs analysis in the next gen thread.
I'll take a 69% resolution advantage and crystal clear shadows 100% of the time with a frame rate drop for 0.1% of the game over 1800p and last gen shadows every frame. And that doesn't even factor in footage of the PS5 game having frame rate hits too, since no game site analyzing footage does it for 100% of the game. They just choose certain sections.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
dude wtf. PS5 drops to 45fps with 1800p and worse shadows. About which advantage on earth are we talking about.
No let's not use this vid as a source; appears it might've been faked :/.
EDIT: I'm not 100% sure it was faked, but the post I originally quoted with the video this specific footage is from, he edited his post saying the video may've been faked. Hopefully someone keeps a lookout to see if it was indeed faked or is legit.
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longdi
Banned
no need for conspiracy theories
maybe DF close the case because of the convincing results, results that matched their expectations of what they hear behind the scenes.
Tickle My Tendies
Member
XSX
PS5
1800p vs 2160 = 20%
60fps (actually more than 60fps to have solid 60fps all the time) vs 41fps = 46.%
46.3 - 20 = more than 26.3% advantage for PS5
Another usual win for PS5.
Bo...why are you doing this? A.) The math is off, and B.) you're wrong. Why are the Sony Gang spreading straight up misinformation?
The PS5 has a performance advantage during ONE PORTION of ONE LEVEL.
The XsX has a resolution and graphical preset advantage Everywhere.
What are we doing? Did you expect to win every single time? It's OKAY. The PS5 is just as great today as it was yesterday.
Over a dozen pages in and people still using cherry picked screenshots despite the context being CLEARLY EXPLAINED numerous times throughout the thread, including in the OP itself.
So PS4 VR is bugging the PS5 version, or the Pro version is bugging the PS5 version, or DF are MS shills and sabotaged the PS5 version, or all we care about is one part of one level where the FPS dips. Seeing guys like you and
DeepEnigma
being so straight up disingenuous (because I know you both are smart people and understand the facts of this head to head analysis).I admit again, it is possible the shadows thing is a bug on the PS5. Sure. It is also possible that PS5 gets improved in the future. Also very possible that a 4k/30/RT update gets added down the road when PC gets RT. But don't piss on my face and tell me it's raining.
If these findings were reversed you would all have PS5 King Memes, with Hitman 3 added to them, parading around multiple threads. It would have been considered a "clear win" for PS5. I don't care which console wins, I just care about fairness. Don't be hypocrites.
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Riky
$MSFT
XSX
PS5
1800p vs 2160 = 20%
60fps (actually more than 60fps to have solid 60fps all the time) vs 41fps = 46.%
46.3 - 20 = more than 26.3% advantage for PS5
Another usual win for PS5.
Total maths fail, add up the pixels and try again, it's also constant not a few seconds framerate dip.
Also spamming the same screenshots is a bannable offence I've been told.
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
Hey now that's not fair, they haven't turned off the PS5, let it cool, make a cup of tea and then reloaded it.
Null Persp
Member
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
no need for conspiracy theories
maybe DF close the case because of the convincing results, results that matched their expectations of what they hear behind the scenes.
Thank you. I rest my case.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
You have to keep in mind that part of the reason for this is because Sony have generally been ahead in their API tools and devkits, and multiple 3P devs have alluded to their PS5 SDK essentially being a PS4 SDK supercharged with PS5 feature support added on top. It's not a complete retooling of devkit profiles and such the way Microsoft is doing things.
Thing is we don't know if they are asking IO behind the scenes; they very well could be. I think things like if PS5 could run native 4K if they tolerated frame drops can be answered by the community. Answer is obviously yes, but a caveat is that the drops likely would've been worst than Series X. Why? Because it's already running at 44% lower resolution to maintain locked 60.
Yes there is that one area where Series X drops into the 50s and a dip into the 40s when switching to sniper view (in that very specific flower field section), but that area represents less than a fraction of 1% of the game time experience. People can't suddenly use it as a means of implying that is a general drop Series X experiences for any significant amount of play time, since the actual time it happens is easily within a margin of error (MoE is usually something about 3% either which way).
OTOH, it's likely IO did try going with the game at native 4K on PS5 during dev and noticed the framerate dipped below 60 too often throughout the whole of the game to justify it. Maybe they also tried DRS but noticed the lower bound was too low for their own preference (I would guess maybe something to an effect of 1792p * 1008p, keeping the 44% amount factored in) and occurred too often, therefore going with a fixed resolution as a result.
That's just my own speculation; it would be nice to see spots like DF ponder more openly on that front to try rationalizing the results, and like I said maybe they are reaching out to IO on this behind the scenes. Maybe we will get a patch soon that bumps up the resolution for PS5. Maybe we will get one that addresses the small framerate dips in the Series X version. But some people take this stuff WAY too personally; the game is perfectly playable on both systems. Even the Series S version is perfectly fine for what it is.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Little Chicken
Banned
I'm not reading 14 pages, but I'm guessing PS fanboys are fuming.
captainraincoat
Banned
FranXico
Member
Resolution differences are more noticeable at lower resolutions. 4k to 1800p is less noticeable than 1080p to 900p, just like that is less noticeable than 640p to 720p.
Not saying that you can't see a difference, mind you.
This thread ain't about seeing the difference. Its about feelin' it.
Clintizzle
Lord of Edge.
I actually found the Mathematical Gymnastics (lol?) hilarious. It's great entertainment.
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