Very true. Valve once said, to paraphrase, that porting to the X360 from the PC "is like pressing a button". Obviously that's an oversimplification, but the intended point is clear.
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DF Rumor: PlayStation 4 is "essentially a PC" in terms of its technological make-up
- Thread starter gofreak
- Start date
Very true. Valve once said, to paraphrase, that porting to the X360 from the PC "is like pressing a button". Obviously that's an oversimplification, but the intended point is clear.
The fact is that many of today's game developers simply cannot survive without multiplatform development, due to the cost of making a modern game. A familiar, PC like architecture to help multiplatform development is almost definitely the right thing for sony to do, moving forward.
Next gen will probably be a battle of services, rather than hardware.
Next gen will probably be a battle of services, rather than hardware.
dragonelite
Member
Dont know i would imaging that microsoft compiler are able to write for both cases so hence pushing a button will net you 2 versions. But if they are optimized is one thing
TheDrowningMan
Member
Enough power to give a slight visual boost (PC medium to highest kind of thing) plus the ability to run such software at native 1080p without trouble would be plenty.
Developers are fond of the Vita, are they not?
specialguy
Banned
Starting to wonder if Fusion (something like it) is for PS4 while Microsoft goes IBM CPU AMD GPU?
The reason for MS is they are big on BC, for BC they'll need an IBM CPU again.
Other than that I wouldn't put that much into this. Just a rumor.
In fact I have pretty heavy doubts about an X86 CPU in any console, therefore if there is an X86 CPU in any console, I suspect it's in an AMD SOC where they dont have any choice.
Also, this flood of PS4 news makes me think Sony's mindset is something like "we're not going to let MS launch a year early again", or at most a year not any more. Just my speculation.
The reason for MS is they are big on BC, for BC they'll need an IBM CPU again.
Other than that I wouldn't put that much into this. Just a rumor.
In fact I have pretty heavy doubts about an X86 CPU in any console, therefore if there is an X86 CPU in any console, I suspect it's in an AMD SOC where they dont have any choice.
Also, this flood of PS4 news makes me think Sony's mindset is something like "we're not going to let MS launch a year early again", or at most a year not any more. Just my speculation.
Monty Mole
Member
x86 architecture meant that the original Xbox had silky smooth and great-looking games from launch. But I thought the architecture was generally avoided outside of personal computers due to economic and efficiency reasons - hence why we've seen more of Power PC architectures without out-of-order execution.
Anasui Kishibe
Banned
i wonder the price of this thing
$5.99.
Edit: On a serious note, I don't see any of the Big 3 launching any higher than $399.
brain_stew
Member
Who says its going to be Llano level?
The 2 teraflop ballpark should be where you're looking and there will be plenty of bandwidth to feed it.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
Following your very own reasoning, people can also buy PCs that are already more powerful than PS4/720/Wii U will be. What will differentiate console generations primarily from here on out will be the console's features and, as always, the simple fact that you have to buy a new system if you want to play new games. Hardware power is secondary. I would argue that it already is and this is evident from this generation's success with the Wii as well as it's irregularly long cycle and the fact that even many "core" gamers look at Samaritan and don't consider it to be a significant improvement from what's available.
Anyway, I've been on Neogaf long enough to know that a thread like this is going to become immensely stupid, so I apologize in advance for not returning to it later to respond further.
Pffft. I'd expect a pack in game for that price.
Agreed. With the economy the way it is I just don't see any manufacturer risking a 'sticker shock' price point.
specialguy
Banned
If that was true, people in the Wii U thread wouldn't go apeshit if you try to suggest it might not be much more powerful than an X360.
The end.
brain_stew
Member
Intel aren't even a consideration because the contract terms would be too restrictive. AMD will license Sony IP that they can manufacture anywhere and integrate and shrink as often as necessary. Intel won't be that flexible.I do know that, I call them x86 for short.
Still, beside getting a deal on the GPU side and maybe better CPU+GPU integration (which AMD is indeed working on, trying to unify both chips address spaces), I think Intel is still the choice for x86/86-64 processors. Single Threaded performance for the win(plus multiple cores).
Grinchy
Banned
True, but Sony included Japan's sales numbers in their worldwide report, so it's a failure.
Make it a dongle, sell it as an addon.
iceatcs
Junior Member
Yeah but it won't stop exclusive game.
I can see small pc dev willing port to other system if it is bit like pc. 1st party rarely to develop on other company system, and also PC don't have 1st party devs.
dragonelite
Member
Is there even a port that can provide enough bandwidth.
BECAUSE I'LL BUY PS4 TO PLAY PS3 GAMES!!
Wasn´t there talk just a couple days ago about Sony patenting a bus doing just that?
AgentOtaku
Member
I think so too honestly
MS sent a clear message to Sony with the 360 as a development platform
Still love you though, Ken <3
painful fart
Member
Hold your horses good people.
This does not necessary mean an x86 cpu is used and don't forget that the guy may just have access to the specs of some early target hardware. I think the early PS3 dev units used PCs with standard SLI GT7800 cards.
This does not necessary mean an x86 cpu is used and don't forget that the guy may just have access to the specs of some early target hardware. I think the early PS3 dev units used PCs with standard SLI GT7800 cards.
Exotic console hardware is cool but using *nearly* off-the-shelf parts obviously makes business sense for Sony right now. They simply cannot afford to bleed money on new hardware again.
I think they will have some sort of solution for BC, the patents we have seen from them in this area show they have clearly been exploring potential solutions.
I think they will have some sort of solution for BC, the patents we have seen from them in this area show they have clearly been exploring potential solutions.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Yeah, that's true too, but Sony could let Intel fab it and try to stipulate die shrinks in advance. Intel has some of the best fabs around.
McHuj
Member
If you go back to Tsuruta's interview from CES, he talks about a potential 28nm SOC for the next playstation. Next year's AMD follow up to the Trinity APU, Kaveri, will have around 1 TF raw performance GPU on 28nm.
It possible that Sony would get a derivative of that for their console. We do know that AMD's APU's are relatively cheap and power efficient.
It possible that Sony would get a derivative of that for their console. We do know that AMD's APU's are relatively cheap and power efficient.
Didn't Sony try to sell both PS2 and PS3 under the 'PC' product category? That way they wouldn't have to pay as much import taxes as they do with videogame consoles. Could this be what they're aiming for?
PS/PS2 emulation could be done, and PS3 will be around for a long time, so no real need for BC yet IMO. PS3 couldn't playback PS2 either (excluding early models).
PS/PS2 emulation could be done, and PS3 will be around for a long time, so no real need for BC yet IMO. PS3 couldn't playback PS2 either (excluding early models).
painful fart
Member
If Sony wants to release a console withun two years from now betting on a cpu that may be released next year by Amd sounds like a pretty risky bet given Amds history of delays.
Those small PC devs don't stay exclusive because the architecture is so different, they're exclusive because of the rising killer financial investments console development requires, and the bureaucratic limitations brought on by the 'walled garden' environment. I'd love to see Sony tackle those ones, but something tells me they won't.
The difference is that Vita is "essentially a smartphone/tablet" that is faster than any smartphone/tablet around at its release. But it looks like the consoles will be significantly slower than contemporary PCs.
DonMigs85
Member
iPad 3 and new phones coming out later this year will probably have equal or better specs to Vita. Hopefully they really go with some cutting-edge hardware when PS4 comes out so it can hold its own against the PC for the next few years.
Yes, but this means that Vita will have been at least half a year ahead of high-end portable devices. Everything points to the consoles being at least a year (most likely more) behind high end PCs.
ScreenSplitter
Member
Yeah but by the time it releases, won't the factors that qualify for being "essentially" a PC substantially have changed?
iceatcs
Junior Member
Yeah that small like indev, I agreed that. They can't afford for licensing.
I hope any company will find for them like easy to self-published, reduce fee etc. Cos they are deserve to have bigger based than just small pc market.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Specs are not the only thing to look at... how efficiently does the OS give you access to the HW?
iOS tries to avoid developers from making silly graphics mistakes dealing with MSAA for example and thus trades peak performance and memory pressure for ease of programming. I do not think the PS Vita software stacks forces you to stay at such high level of programming and should definitely have less "baby-proofing" thus enabling quite a lot more effective performance even with the same specs as another platform.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
this would be a reason for me to jump ship from xbox land into ps territory.
I wouldn't call the PC market small, indie devs generally sell best on PC services like Steam. The fact that it's developer friendly is just icing, which ties into my other post. In Amnesia's case, the cost/reward ratio for a console port didn't seem worth the endeavor, that'll just get worse unless console development takes a nose-dive in cost.
Because the PS4 will feel like a PC as much as a PS3 does today. This is all behind the scenes development stuff, when the game gets to you it'll be a console game.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
I do know that, I call them x86 for short.
Still, beside getting a deal on the GPU side and maybe better CPU+GPU integration (which AMD is indeed working on, trying to unify both chips address spaces), I think Intel is still the choice for x86/86-64 processors. Single Threaded performance for the win
Pretty funny how you state 'beside getting a better deal on CPU + GPU integration' then say 'but Intel is better.' CPU + GPU integration (especially if its SoC) is what AMD is industry-leading on. Their APU's are incredible and cutting edge. You'd have to be a fool to want a somewhat decent increase in CPU performance (Intel) over what AMD's APU's offer for a game console. Not to mention Intel is more expensive. Sony could save a lot of money in key areas while stilo making something very powerful and EASY TO DEV FOR by having AMD do both GPU and CPU.