SolidSnakex
Member
snatches said:
Missing the point.
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DFC Report: Could Sony Go From First to Worst?
- Thread starter sonycowboy
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Missing the point.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
snatches said:
And the DC was cheaper and out a year earlier, and the Cube was cheaper and more powerful.
Price was not everything.
soundwave05
Member
Anything could happen, but for this scenario to take place, MS has to get their shit together in the next 4-5 months. If they don't have considerable momenteum going into 2007, I think they've probably wasted their window.
My personal feeling is if Nintendo had more of a next-gen chipset ... something say equivalent to a Sega Lindbergh arcade board (w/o that much RAM) for $200-$250 or so, they'd take this generation outright.
My personal feeling is if Nintendo had more of a next-gen chipset ... something say equivalent to a Sega Lindbergh arcade board (w/o that much RAM) for $200-$250 or so, they'd take this generation outright.
SolidSnakex
Member
Razoric said:
It's easy to say that now when you look back on it. But there were several reports back then that said the PSone was more of a fluke and Nintendo would get their act together with the Cube and go right back their old position.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Razoric said:
All crystal clear in hindsight. My post was meant to highlight that the PS2 had quite a lot of bad press as well, and that fortune tellers were wrong. I am not saying anything about the PS3's success or not, just that the bad press is not a very good predictor.
SolidSnakex said:
Yeah, but those people were STUPID. There is a big difference this time around. Nintendo hadn't addressed its two biggest problems at the time. 1) Proprietary format. 2) Third party relations.
The concerns over the PS3's success are realistic and hard to contest.
SolidSnakex
Member
snatches said:
The point was that there was alot of negativity around the PS2, and even at that price people didn't think it could repeat what Sony did with the PSone. On top of that the PS2 was very expensive in European territories which was another sopurce of negativity.
SolidSnakex said:
Yet you choose to ignore the positive Sony hype then too. Emotion Engine? DVD? $300? China using them as super computers? Coming off the fantastic PSOne hype? How can anyone deny on this board the massive amount of Sony hype going into PS2?
And yeah it's easy to say that now... Dreamcast was not going to succeed period. People were sick of Sega after the Sega CD, 32X and Saturn. They had no money, burned many bridges, etc. And Nintendo was embracing their kiddy image as seen with purple systems and childish launch games.
Xbox 360 and Nintendo Wii will provide the PS3 with a shitload more competition. Take off your goggles.
i fully expect Sony to become a rusting giant in third place next-gen. They just made just one of the absolute biggest mistakes i've ever seen for a huge competitor like this - truly second to cartridges only i think - so we'll have to see if it pans out. They still have big gigantic exclusives like Gran Turismo and Final Fantasy, so it's obviously not gonna sell 0... but i do think it'll be third place. Maybe not a 'distant' third though.
Revised totals:
55mil (360)
48mil (PS3)
10,000,000,000,000 (Wii)
Revised totals:
55mil (360)
48mil (PS3)
10,000,000,000,000 (Wii)
snatches said:
Haha, I'm sorry, but at the time GC was being touted as "anti-N64" in both of these regards. Third party relations seemed in particular to be on the up-and-up.
And pricing was often raised at the time also. We just weren't at the dizzy heights of the current price points being adopted.
SolidSnakex
Member
Razoric said:
And where did I say that they wouldn't provide the PS3 with competition?
gofreak said:
How about putting superstition aside and dealing with the facts. Logically speaking, the negative press PS2 received before it launched did not contribute to its success. PS2 succeeded on its own merits.
PS3 getting bad press doesn't guarantee it will succeed or everything will be just fine after launch. you're really pretty much running on faith alone. That's pretty clear and its fine. But it's not a counterargument to the points being made.
SolidSnakex said:
That's because we were heading into new and uncertain territory. At that price, I think most avid gamers were anticipating a success with PS2, myself included.
My point in all these threads is that Sony's brand dominance is eroding. They will be selling their GTA and Madden box to the mass market for $200 more than MS. 90% of consumers will not get the ****ing differences.
Can you contest these points at all?
snatches said:
And this is the other part that gets the lions share of fanboy denial here at GAF when thinking there is only a $600 PS3 option. Have you worked retail? Worked retail at a games store? You are not the core Playstation market either. If I was still managing a game store I wouldn't be trying to damage control a sale to the average gamer or parent looking for the system. Right down to the $500 console I would go. I don't have to sell them anything extra for it like a HDD or Memory card and it still comes with all the basic and some advanced features that matter to the gamer looking at the PS3 as in BC, standard Blu-ray drive w/ movie playback, a HDD, plays the games, can still get online and a wireless controller. If they are looking at the equivalent 360 then they are only having to justify a $100 dollar difference. At that point brand loyality and brand name starts playing a part. The question remains of how many $499 PS3's will be available though.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
snatches said:
True. But that wasn't the point of my post.
If you fanboy warriors would put away your dickswords for a sec, and just respond to what I wrote in context, you could relax a little. I'm not making a case that the PS3 will be a success. I'm pointing out that the bad hype doesn't mean it can't be.
SolidSnakex
Member
snatches said:
What would you like contested other than the PS3 isn't a Madden/GTA box just like the PS2 wasn't one. If it was they'd be screwed. And they really would be off from their previous consoles which has never been labeled a [insert series] box because the lineup is too diverse to give credit to any single series.
Deku said:
Err...who said this? I've made no predictions at all about PS3's performance, it's fruitless. I learned that last time around.
I'm merely pointing out that it's very easy to dismiss the negativity surrounding a system in hindsight if it has been successful, or to point out x, y or z as being "obvious". At the time such things didn't seem so obvious, or certain, at all.
quetz67 said:
Or maybe gamers are saying "**** this overpriced bullshit I'm not wasting money on $400+ game systems and $60+ games". We are seriously taking it up the rear with these next-gen systems and I can see a lot of casual gamers jumping ship for the next 3-4 years. (unless Wii does something in the U.S.)
Well the fact that the PS2 came in at $299.99 was a *huge* factor. The DC also was not competition. Let us be realistic here, EA completely shunned the system. Sony had a hell of a package at the right time for a great price. The PS3 starts at $499.99 and is 6 to 12 months late, big difference.
The Xbox 360 is much stronger than the DC ever was. It'll have many of the same games as the PS3. They'll look similar and play the same and the 360 will be a cheaper pricepoint. The portable enviroment may have actually helped MS. MS didn't realize Sony and Nintendo would be releasing new portable systems in late 2004/early 2005, as they thought both Sony and Nintendo would have their new consoles out in 2005. So in essence with Sony and Nintendo focusing on the portable market, it helped MS gain a year head start. The PS3 launch is also going to help the 360. Because we'll start seeing real next gen heavy hitting products from 3rd party developers being able to release the game on PS3 and 360. So it is possible that the PS3 being released will help give the Xbox 360 a sales boost, when consumers see the same game on a competing system at a lower pricepoint.
The Xbox 360 is much stronger than the DC ever was. It'll have many of the same games as the PS3. They'll look similar and play the same and the 360 will be a cheaper pricepoint. The portable enviroment may have actually helped MS. MS didn't realize Sony and Nintendo would be releasing new portable systems in late 2004/early 2005, as they thought both Sony and Nintendo would have their new consoles out in 2005. So in essence with Sony and Nintendo focusing on the portable market, it helped MS gain a year head start. The PS3 launch is also going to help the 360. Because we'll start seeing real next gen heavy hitting products from 3rd party developers being able to release the game on PS3 and 360. So it is possible that the PS3 being released will help give the Xbox 360 a sales boost, when consumers see the same game on a competing system at a lower pricepoint.
soundwave05
Member
Fatghost28 said:
Not really. If the system takes off in Japan, expect much stronger Japanese 3rd party support.
soundwave05 said:
It is unfortunate the 360 tanked in Japan, because it doesn't give consumers a middle option. They have a low powered inexpensive Gamecube turbo charged wacky peripheral add on system or a high powered sony corporate mandated expensive as hell is it a movie player, game player, or pc system as choices. The 360 really is almost a true middle ground between the Wii and PS3, but it isn't a choice at all for Japan gamers.
The 360 is going for like 330 bucks in Japan, premium system too! Too bad.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Ignatz: the sheer volume of bad press is absolutely horrifying with the PS3. We aren't seeing any of the hype we saw for PS2. With PS2, many people were HOPING it would fail and latched onto any bad news they could find. However, there was just as much (actually much much more) GOOD hype forming for the PS2...
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Dragona Akehi said:
That's true-- I think a more fair statement up front is that the PS3 is not getting much positive hype. I don't think the bad news/anti-hype means much at all, one way or the other. There will always be negative speculation and FUD, and I really do think there's no correlation with the system's eventual level of success.*
The lack of positive hype is the real difference.
* Edit: When I started to reply to your post, I hadn't quite remembered how bad the PS2 FUD had gotten, but as I started typing it flooded back. Mucho doom-and-gloom for the PS2, along with all the hype.
snatches said:
IF there is a lacking of $499 PS3's I would say that will hurt Sony more then people like to think. If you are talking to your average customer you make it simple, blu-ray, wi-fi, big HDD. HDMI is just not going to be a selling point to the average gamer or customer, thats why I said the $499 price point is really important to Sony. They might be able to get away with it at launch, but after that the $499 system should be the higher ratio.
Hopefully the average brainian EB employee will keep it simple like I said. From my observation the EB employee that tries to over explain things and/or inject their own theories into their speeches are the worst.
Imagine, people damage controlling the impending release of an mp3 player for $400 that would only be compatible with Macs for its first year, those same people predicting that it would take over the Walkman crown and saying it would sell tens of millions a year...sheesh.snatches said:
Personally, I'm of the opinion that Sony's pricing of the PS3 will translate into a significant decline in lifetime unit sales, relative to the PS2, but I'm not so full of my armchair analysis of the market that I'd completely rule out a misread of what people are willing to pay.
SolidSnakex
Member
Razoric said:
Except extra system power gives developers more than just the ability to create prettier graphics.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Ignatz, you said what I was trying to say. The lack of positive hype it probably the most alarming thing. Let's see what happens at TGS etc.
gofreak said:
They have no correlation to the previous incident however, you mention the negative press was fruitless. I don't think it was. The negative criticism wasn't as intense for starters and the PS2 was a good package. It had a dry launch with almost no games and people were just watching DVDs instead, but PS2 had several natural advantages.
It launched early vis a vis Nintendo and Microsoft, it played DVDs which was a mature media format just as the mass market was getting into DVDs and it wasn't $600.
Mentioning the bad press surrounding the PS2 and implicitly drawing parallels to this situation is illogical. You may not say it directly, but that was your point when you brought it up. I'm pointing out it has no bearing on this situation.
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Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Does anyone think console sales next gen, and the console market overall could actually shrink next gen compared to the PS2/Xbox/GC gen?
- PS3 a lot more expensive than PS2, could sell less no doubt about it. Price cuts will come but when, and how much it will matter several years down the line?
- Xbox 360 so far selling quite a bit worse than even the old Xbox, in every single market, including the US.
- Wii, who the hell knows what will happen with Wii, but I'm not sure it will have some very huge sales in US and EU, two biggest markets. Nintendo hasn't really been doing that great with console business in Japan either.
Could the console market just shrink and shrink a lot? What will that mean for this industry? What will it mean for big publishers and budgets for big games? Will the industru slowly start being ruled by the handhelds, the shift that we've seen from Arcade -> Home consoles could happen with Consoles -> Handhelds? Hell I know I've been playing PSP way more than anything else since I've got it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, and I know a lot of people feel the same way about DS. The convenience factor of handhelds is just very big.
- PS3 a lot more expensive than PS2, could sell less no doubt about it. Price cuts will come but when, and how much it will matter several years down the line?
- Xbox 360 so far selling quite a bit worse than even the old Xbox, in every single market, including the US.
- Wii, who the hell knows what will happen with Wii, but I'm not sure it will have some very huge sales in US and EU, two biggest markets. Nintendo hasn't really been doing that great with console business in Japan either.
Could the console market just shrink and shrink a lot? What will that mean for this industry? What will it mean for big publishers and budgets for big games? Will the industru slowly start being ruled by the handhelds, the shift that we've seen from Arcade -> Home consoles could happen with Consoles -> Handhelds? Hell I know I've been playing PSP way more than anything else since I've got it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, and I know a lot of people feel the same way about DS. The convenience factor of handhelds is just very big.
Razoric said:Because everything on Wii looks like shit?
Preeeetty much. But that's a topic for another time, the fact is if 360 and PS3 both do poorly for a long time graphics would take a significant and worrying impact downward next-gen, and that is a horrific thought for any true lover of games.
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