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[ToD_]

This thread gets me thinking - Why can't there be more "off-hand" analog devices for PC? Moving with a thumbstick while aiming with a mouse works beautifully for a variety of games.

Dual mouse setup!

 

[Zaptruder]

I get what you're saying, but a lack of precision and control (the difference between actively going someplace and ordering someone to go and having the meantime to consider new orders) does not "feel better" to me.

Except there's no stop command - cancelling the order requires you to issue new commands - which depending on the nature of the command can take a few hundred ms - which may well be a third to half a screen of travel time.

Moreover, moving the character a little in one direction and then attacking in another direction requires two seperate mouse seeks - each takes about a 500ms to 1 second for a seasoned mouse user - this is something that can be done much quicker on a gamepad - the two actions can be performed in parallel and hence much quicker.

Finally, the nature of the game is that you're controlling a single character with quick responsive actions - cursor based gameplay creates a more detached feeling that is more suited to controlling multiple characters, a slower less action based game, or any sort of strategy game.

 

[SmokyDave]

I'm praying this pad support makes it into the PC version. Whenever I play a Diablo style game I yearn for direct control of the character.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

This thread gets me thinking - Why can't there be more "off-hand" analog devices for PC? Moving with a thumbstick while aiming with a mouse works beautifully for a variety of games.

Lack of keys/buttons, I would imagine.

 

[Skilletor]

keyboard/mouse usually refers to FPS controls, with WASD controlling movement and mouse for camera/aiming. It's simultaneous and does require practice and an adjustment period.

Diablo isn't an FPS. It's mouse-controlled with hotkey commands. If you can't even get "used to" that then you may have coordination issues. It's like saying you don't want to use a mouse and keyboard to browse the Internet.

It's not like that at all.

I prefer controller.

 

[epmode]

I'm 99% sure we've already had a thread on this exact interview. And is anyone NOT expecting this to show up on consoles?

The only thing I could think of would be the spellcasting in FF: Crystal Chronicles where you can hold down a button and move a cursor with the right stick to determine your casting area. It still wouldn't be as immediate as a point/click though and it'd make multiple consecutive teleports very difficult.

I hear that there is a ~6 second cooldown between teleports in Diablo 3. Hmmmm.....

 

[StuBurns]

This thread gets me thinking - Why can't there be more "off-hand" analog devices for PC? Moving with a thumbstick while aiming with a mouse works beautifully for a variety of games.

I actually tried Mirror's Edge like that the other day. It's not without it's charm.

 

[Orayn]

Dual mouse setup!

Give the "mouse" some resistance and a centering mechanism and you're onto something.

 

[Yoshichan]

Hopefully I can filter the gamepad users off in the arenas... I mean, slaughtering them would require next to no effort whatsoever. And that would be an understatement ._.

Move with left stick, move a cursor with right?

Not that hard

Wow... not that hard, but probably the most uncomfortable thing I've heard in many months. I kinda cringe upon the thought.

proves my point that I hope to filter out the gamepad players (if the game will even support gamepad, that is). Because I really can't imagine someone playing efficiently with gamepad in the arena against someone with M/K. It just wouldn't be fair.

Stay free, console scrubs.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

This thread gets me thinking - Why can't there be more "off-hand" analog devices for PC? Moving with a thumbstick while aiming with a mouse works beautifully for a variety of games.

Surprised Razer or whoever has never stuck an analog stick onto the left side of a PC keyboard. And yeah I know there was a mutant Gamecube/keyboard pad.

 

[Zaptruder]

I'm praying this pad support makes it into the PC version. Whenever I play a Diablo style game I yearn for direct control of the character.

If the OP quotes are to be trusted - then it's saying that gamepad support won't be there day 1 - but they're interested, and if there's ever a version with gamepad support (i.e. it comes out on console), then it'll be on the PC too (which may get the gamepad support even before the console version launches - if only because you can resolve the design, code and patch it before the entire recoding/certification process for consoles).

 

[Alexios]

Eh, I like direct control over my character movement myself, instead of the point & click interface, which coupled with skills tied to the face buttons would make it work like some kind of scrolling beat em up with loot, so fun fun fun, but if they really wanted to they could do the same style of control with mouse and keyboard, giving us speedy WASD style movement and still allowing the mouse to more accurately aim the character's direction and various skills. There's nothing about a console controller in particular that enables this kind of gameplay, it's their choice to avoid it on PC and only think of doing it for the console versions, which is weird...

 

[KKRT00]

I get what you're saying, but a lack of precision and control (the difference between actively going someplace and ordering someone to go and having the meantime to consider new orders) does not "feel better" to me.

You didnt think through this argument, did You?


BTW i still think/dream that the best controls for this kind of game would be WSAD movement + Skills [with mouse and keyboard] + Mouse pointer and movement + Mouse gestures, mixed with drawing spells with mouse, active block, lock-on, auto-attack function for last target [so attack speed has better usage than increasing cast speed of physical skills] and position based attacks [higher damage from behind etc] with isometric view of course.

 

[GJS]

Why not let us play with WASD as well if they are going to support pads.

 

[okenny]

Is that a vapor trail under his arm?! Tony's become more feisty in his old age.

 

[StuBurns]

Eh, I like direct control over my character movement myself, instead of the point & click interface, which coupled with skills tied to the face buttons would make it work like some kind of scrolling beat em up with loot, so fun fun fun, but if they really wanted to they could do the same style of control with mouse and keyboard, giving us speedy WASD movement and still allowing the mouse to more accurately aim the character's direction and various skills. There's nothing about a console controller in particular that enables this kind of gameplay, it's their choice to avoid it on PC and only think of doing it for the console versions, which is weird...

Reminds me of Alien Swarm, I never liked that.

 

[Apoc87]

Dat feel of kbm

 

[OneMoreQuestion]

Just get the Playstation Nav controller to work on PC along with a mouse and I'll be good to go

 

[1-D_FTW]

I actually tried Mirror's Edge like that the other day. It's not without it's charm.

Especially if they're both wireless.

I've occasionally championed this bizzare set-up for that very reason. If you're gaming on the HDTV, a left handed controller is a lot more convenient than a keyboard.

Would have actually purchased the Move Navigator for 15 bucks at the Gamestop sale if I could have gotten confirmation it worked on PC.

 

[SmokyDave]

If the OP quotes are to be trusted - then it's saying that gamepad support won't be there day 1 - but they're interested, and if there's ever a version with gamepad support (i.e. it comes out on console), then it'll be on the PC too (which may get the gamepad support even before the console version launches - if only because you can resolve the design, code and patch it before the entire recoding/certification process for consoles).

Yeah, that's how I'm reading it too. No support at launch but patch around the time that the console versions hit. I'm in whether they patch it in or not but I'd definitely prefer it if they did.

 

[Momo]

Is that a vapor trail under his arm?! Tony's become more feisty in his old age.

Heh, thats not a vapor trail, this is.

 

[Alexios]

Reminds me of Alien Swarm, I never liked that.

Too bad, great game (at least the more complete UT2004 version). But yes, similar to that as far as movement is concerned. A twin stick shooter on consoles, a wasd + mouse shooter on PC. Except not shooter only if we're talking Diablo-like. If they like it they can do it with and without a controller. But the game has to be tuned for it, having both in the same version seems like it would make one or the other gimped. Like, iirc you can't actually run in one direction and fire your spells or whatever in another at the same time with the classic Diablo interface... Unless in III they allow you to click somewhere for your character to start moving to that direction and then start firing spells and stuff without the character stopping or changing direction, still heading to that spot you clicked on first. But that's a bit fiddly compared to direct movement and 360 degree aiming.

 

[okenny]

I hope the master race doesn't throw a master-tantrum over this. I don't want to see another Windows 8-like reaction where it's not good enough that improvements have been made to the traditionally controlled environment but the rather the addition of a new control layer is perceived to detract or "dishonor" their eliteness.

 

[Orayn]

Lack of keys/buttons, I would imagine.

That's why you give it a buttload of programmable keys. 3-4 rows, each 4-6 keys wide. Maybe give them fancy replacable keycaps and some nice Cherry MX key switches. Heck, go nuts and add a clickable scroll wheel that can be used with your index finger. I would buy such a monstrosity.

 

[Nemo]

I hope the master race doesn't throw a master-tantrum over this. I don't want to see another Windows 8-like reaction where it's not good enough that improvements have been made to the traditionally controlled environment but the rather the addition of a new control layer is perceived to detract or "dishonor" their eliteness.

There's always a tantrum, but guessing from pretty much all the previous notable instances that've been most of the people always accept it pretty soon after and just move on.

 

[Goldmund]

Except there's no stop command - cancelling the order requires you to issue new commands - which depending on the nature of the command can take a few hundred ms - which may well be a third to half a screen of travel time.

Moreover, moving the character a little in one direction and then attacking in another direction requires two seperate mouse seeks - each takes about a 500ms to 1 second for a seasoned mouse user - this is something that can be done much quicker on a gamepad - the two actions can be performed in parallel and hence much quicker.

Finally, the nature of the game is that you're controlling a single character with quick responsive actions - cursor based gameplay creates a more detached feeling that is more suited to controlling multiple characters, a slower less action based game, or any sort of strategy game.

The "detached feeling" is what I prefer. You issue a command and till the required action has been performed, you have time to (a) laboriously cancel it and lose milliseconds of time you could have spent playing the game and (b) think of your next command. If you're always "in control", this passive time of deliberation is gone.

It's not about speed. In the thick of a battle this delay, a delay whose length you're in control of, can be infinitely short, but it's still big enough to be appreciable.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

By no means will I argue that this will play better on a 360 controller, but if this means a 360 version I am happy since I do not have a gaming PC. Im curious how well it would work on a controller though.. In all honesty I could see something like this working on the Wii-Us pad though, implementing the touch screen with buttons.

 

[forrest]

This thread gets me thinking - Why can't there be more "off-hand" analog devices for PC? Moving with a thumbstick while aiming with a mouse works beautifully for a variety of games.

This is what I use. It works amazing for WoW and Diablo 3. The newer version by razor even features a removable joystick that attaches to the dpad. I'll probably pick the newer one up at some point, but this older one is a serious tank. It just wont quit!

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Most importantly, will awesome things happen when you push the A-button?

 

[Orayn]

This is what I use. It works amazing for WoW and Diablo 3. The newer version by razor even features a removable joystick that attaches to the dpad. I'll probably pick the newer one up at some point, but this older one is a serious tank. It just wont quit!

I would very much like a successor to that, but with an analog stick (or disc?) instead of a d-pad.

 

[kyubajin]

If they do release a console version, why not implement keyboard and mouse support for it? You can do it on PS3 and it will help us with low end computers.

 

[Finaika]

Heh, thats not a vapor trail, this is.

Ippo is PC GAF, Sendoh is console.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

For me on these types of games, Gamepad control feels like BEING my character, whereas M/KB feels like issuing orders to a character, if that makes any sense. I prefer the experience of the former, but there are certainly pros and cons.

 

[MustacheBandit_]

they already know every PC gamer is gonna buy it, they are just trying to hype console only gamers to buy it.

 

[TUSR]

id double dip for sure if it came out on PS360.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

This thread gets me thinking - Why can't there be more "off-hand" analog devices for PC? Moving with a thumbstick while aiming with a mouse works beautifully for a variety of games.

Yes! Since it reminds me of Wii, I've taken to calling this playstyle Computer Nunchuk.

 

[StuBurns]

If they do release a console version, why not implement keyboard and mouse support for it? You can do it on PS3 and it will help us with low end computers.

Because practically no one will use it, and they can't do it on 360.

 

[Orayn]

Yes! Since it reminds me of Wii, I've taken to calling this playstyle Computer Nunchuk.

The relative lack of buttons kills me, though. I'm tempted to get some help from an electrical engineer friend to help me gut a 360 controller to create the device I described a few posts ealier.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

I would love to play Diablo 3 on my PC with a pad...and alone....while offline.

ding ding ding. we have a winner.

 

[Kuran]

I honestly play a lot of my PC games with it. Very relaxing.

 

[kingslunk]

Arcade stick with monk here I come LOL.

 

[Data West]

I should be able to play co-op with a buddy and be locked to the same screen if I use m+k and he uses a plugged in 360 pad.

too bad Blizzard will never do that.

 

[Eight Diagram Bat Fighter]

Dying a lot because you're using a 360 pad to play Diablo 3 feels fantastic.

 

[SmokyDave]

Dying a lot because you're using a 360 pad to play Diablo 3 feels fantastic.

You've played it?

Not really sure why I phrased that as a question, your statement makes it abundantly clear that you have played it. How were the buttons mapped?

 

[SneakyStephan]

It is referring to movement.

I see, that make sense.

So just allow wasd movement then? It's the same friggin thing.

I'm not a fan of click to move either, not even in diablo 2 (especially not in league of legends), but the aiming sure feels a lot better.

Waiting for renegade ops pc just for that reason (well I already bought 4 copies on steam), aiming with the stick is just akward, it doesn't feel right, I'm just pointing the stick but it's at a very 'off' axis compared to what i'm seeing onscreen in that game, it works okay in superstardust though.

 

[Zaptruder]

The "detached feeling" is what I prefer. You issue a command and till the required action has been performed, you have time to (a) laboriously cancel it and lose milliseconds of time you could have spent playing the game and (b) think of your next command. If you're always "in control", this passive time of deliberation is gone.

It's not about speed. In the thick of a battle this delay, a delay whose length you're in control of, can be infinitely short, but it's still big enough to be appreciable.

I'm not sure if you can appreciate it; but the logic that you've got worked out in your brain; broken.

 

[Orayn]

I see, that make sense.

So just allow wasd movement then? It's the same friggin thing.

Yes and no. An analog stick offers more than eight movement directions and lets you fine-tune your movement speed. Not a huge deal for Diablo, but it would FEEL nice from a control standpoint.

 

[Grinchy]

This thread gets me thinking - Why can't there be more "off-hand" analog devices for PC? Moving with a thumbstick while aiming with a mouse works beautifully for a variety of games.

After playing FPS with Move on PS3, I think this could totally work. I can just imagine using the Nav in my left hand for movement, and the mouse in my right hand for aiming/camera in Fallout New Vegas. Holy shit I want that now. Playing Fallout with a controller is just so nice, but I always miss the mouse

 

[Goldmund]

I'm not sure if you can appreciate it; but the logic that you've got worked out in your brain; broken.

Not unlike your syntax after the semicolons invaded.

 

[Orayn]

After playing FPS with Move on PS3, I think this could totally work. I can just imagine using the Nav in my left hand for movement, and the mouse in my right hand for aiming/camera in Fallout New Vegas. Holy shit I want that now. Playing Fallout with a controller is just so nice, but I always miss the mouse

MotionInJoy supports the Move navigation controller now, doesn't it?