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[thetrin]

For me, RPGs ruined anime. They both have the same problem -- no creativity. All JRPGs have adolescents who have to save the world from a single bad guy. All modern anime is about adolescents who have ordinary high school lives. They're too predictable and I'm dying for something fresh.

- Most WRPGs are about heroes that save a Tolkien-esque world from destruction at the hands of a dark evil.

- Most shooters are about dudes with guns shooting lots of other people in the face and nuts.

- Most sports games are about people running around on grass with a ball in their hands.

Reductionism just makes you look ignorant, so just stop.

I don't need anime to ruin my RPGs. Lately my RPGs have no problem ruining themselves.

You're playing the wrong ones!

 

[Cloudy]

It seems that a lot of people in this thread don't understand what the OP is complaining about.

The OP isn't getting angry at the anime tropes but more so that most JRPG's have anime like stories to grab your interest but because it is a game it take 40 hours to tell a story that would take like a season of anime.

In short anime and JRPG's have very similar stories and aesthetics, and since JRPG's take so long to complete and (like most genres) tend to have pacing issues, then what's the point?

That's what I was trying to say. Playing jrpgs has been tiresome for me lately and I don't have the patience to stick with it since I can get my cliched, teen angst-ridden plots elsewhere now :lol

 

[Hitokage]

That's what I was trying to say. Playing jrpgs has been tiresome for me lately and I don't have the patience to stick with it since I can get my cliched, teen angst-ridden plots elsewhere now :lol

Choosing, buying, and playing RPGs primarily for plot is your mistake. A decade of questionable taste has finally caught up with you.

 

[Geneijin]

That's what I was trying to say. Playing jrpgs has been tiresome for me lately and I don't have the patience to stick with it since I can get my cliched, teen angst-ridden plots elsewhere now :lol

Then lower your standards for story and look for gameplay instead. I did already.

 

[Cloudy]

Am I the only person who played these games mostly for the gameplay? Sure, I loved them for the stories...when I was 14, but by the time the ps2 rpg boom got kicking I was about one thing only: gameplay.

I have never played rpgs for the gameplay. I mean, I guess some battle-systems are fun (FF7/FFX) but what is the point of the endless, repetitive battles if you're not interested in seeing what happens next?

 

[Hitokage]

I have never played rpgs for the gameplay. I mean, I guess some battle-systems are fun (FF7/FFX) but what is the point of the endless, repetitive battles if you're not interested in seeing what happens next?

Newsflash: Not all RPGs have endless, repetitive battles.

 

[Lafiel]

Am I the only person who played these games mostly for the gameplay? Sure, I loved them for the stories...when I was 14, but by the time the ps2 rpg boom got kicking I was about one thing only: gameplay.

I do expect the storyline and characters in a j-rpg to be at least on a decent / tolerable level. It's hard playing through something like star ocean 4 for example, when the storyline / characters are so damn cringe-worthy.:lol

I have never played rpgs for the gameplay. I mean, I guess some battle-systems are fun (FF7/FFX) but what is the point of the endless, repetitive battles if you're not interested in seeing what happens next?

Play better j-rpgs!

 

[Cloudy]

Newsflash: Not all RPGs have endless, repetitive battles.

Gimme an example. And it's not that I don't like battles and leveling up at all but everytime I get to some huge dungeon these days, I just groan.

 

[Lafiel]

There's more to rpgs than just battles. There's exploration, there's adventure, there's questing, there's dungeon design. Battles are a small amalgam of my enjoyment of rpgs. Story can enhance these things, but I fail to see how it's ever the main bullet point.

The last j-rpg he played was FF13...

 

[Grzi]

Gimme an example.

Breath Of Fire V?

 

[Jex]

Game mechanics should really be your major concern when playing a videogame. If you're only interested in story, you can get it elsewhere.

If the games you're playing aren't good, play better ones.

The last j-rpg he played was FF13...

:lol

 

[Cloudy]

There's more to rpgs than just battles. There's exploration, there's adventure, there's questing, there's dungeon design. Battles are a small amalgam of my enjoyment of rpgs. Story can enhance these things, but I fail to see how it's ever the main bullet point.

I hate quests that have little to do with the main plot and I hate dungeon crawling

 

[Xelinis]

Gimme an example. And it's not that I don't like battles and leveling up at all but everytime I get to some huge dungeon these days, I just groan.

The Suikoden series. With the exception of IV, dungeons are short with a great encounter rate and very fast battles.

 

[Cloudy]

Breath Of Fire V?

How's the story? It's the main reason I play rpgs (followed by characters, art, music).

 

[Xelinis]

How's the story? It's the main reason I play rpgs (followed by characters, art, music).

BoFV has an excellent story. It's a great game all around, but do some research first. It deviates greatly from the RPG norm.

 

[Cloudy]

FF13 doesn't fulfill any of those things. While FF13's battle system basics are neat, you're fighting one repetitive battles after the next. It is the prime definition of the game he doesn't want to play.

It's not that I don't want to play it. It's just like a chore

But then there's games like Persona 4, he couldn't get into those either.

To be fair, I have P4 but I haven't finished P3. i liked it quite a bit tho

Or FF12, which fulfills those requirements ten fold.

If FF13 is too restricted and linear, FF12 has the exact opposite problem. Just too open-ended and it ruined the story pacing IMO

I don't think jrpgs are for Cloudy period

But I was REALLY into them before I discovered anime :lol


It seems I'm a fan of jrpg/anime stories and characters but not the actual "gameplay" -_-

 

[Geneijin]

Gimme an example. And it's not that I don't like battles and leveling up at all but everytime I get to some huge dungeon these days, I just groan.

Played a Tales of game before?

Tales of the Abyss
Tales of Vesperia

 

[Hitokage]

Gimme an example. And it's not that I don't like battles and leveling up at all but everytime I get to some huge dungeon these days, I just groan.

Nowadays I like games that employ APRG or SRPG mechanics more, like Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter, Valkyrie Profile(2 especially), and Resonance of Fate(still playing, but so far it's good).

How's the story? It's the main reason I play rpgs (followed by characters, art, music).

Why did you make this thread again?

 

[Cloudy]

Played a Tales of game before?

Tales of the Abyss
Tales of Vesperia

I'll have to check those out sometime. Not because of those clips though. I like the character art

 

[Xelinis]

I'll have to check those out sometime. Not because of those clips though. I like the character art

Play those and you'll be revisiting this thread, I guarantee you.

 

[Geneijin]

I'll have to check those out sometime. Not because of those clips though. I like the character art

Honestly, if there was a game I got solely for the gameplay, it was the Tales of Destiny remake. Imported it as well.

Who cares about story. It was extremely fun.

Also, I'm surprised you never heard of Abyss. There was an anime for it too. Or you probably didn't mention it.

 

[Mael]

Thats basically how I feel about the FF series from 7 onward. The old Nes and Snes FF's had an entirely different feel to them. More westernized etc.

you mean they were more westernized after or before?
Doesn't make sense any way...

 

[ChoklitReign]

- Most WRPGs are about heroes that save a Tolkien-esque world from destruction at the hands of a dark evil.

- Most shooters are about dudes with guns shooting lots of other people in the face and nuts.

- Most sports games are about people running around on grass with a ball in their hands.

Reductionism just makes you look ignorant, so just stop.

I'm a reductionist because they're predictable? Of fucking course there are anime that don't have to do with high school, but it's the most popular genre now. When was the last time you heard someone praising about Gundam or Baccano in the press? Anime has gone underground because there are fewer fresh ideas, not to mention the decline in traditional animation in the west. JRPGs have the same problem. Most of them basically play the same and basically have the same story. Of fucking course some JRPGs have heterodox gameplay, like TWEWY and Earthbound, but they're in the minory. Tell me why I should play Arc Rise Fantasia over Tales of Vesperia. If you can't, it's because they're the same game. I like new stuff and I'd love to play a JRPG that doesn't involve menus to do everything and grinding and unbalanced boss fights. But I haven't seen one this generation (Fragile had potential but just read the reviews -- everything but the story sucks).

Can you call all of that reductionism?

 

[Grzi]

How's the story? It's the main reason I play rpgs (followed by characters, art, music).

It has a great story, but considering everything you wrote, I'm with Hitokage on this one - you should give JRPGs with emphasis on interesting (maybe even intelligent, wait what?) gameplay a shot. Breath Of Fire is one of them, also (as Hitokage already mentioned) Valkyrie Profile 2 (maybe even the original, if you don't mind PS1 graphics).

If you want an excellent story, play Chrono Cross
Give the SMT series a try too, Nocturne, P4 and DDS.

Also, Tales games are fun, but to me, the series reached it's peak with Eternia. All the other games have something going for it, that's true, but Eternia did everything right. The battle system, the world, even the story (not great, but great by Tales' standards). Never really understood the love Symphonia gets, it's pretty good, but Eternia is far better to me.

 

[Hitokage]

Another option is playing actual SRPGs like Disgaea or Valkyria Chronicles.

 

[Jex]

drrrp

Can you call all of that reductionism?

Yup.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Reminds me that I need to play Valkyria Chronicles. I bought it but still haven't played it. Also, Western RPGs are becoming hybrids like Fallout and Mass Effect,which to be is a lot more interesting than most JRPGs.

 

[Aaron]

I think the real problem is most jRPGs are too battle heavy, and that just wears down people who aren't driven to play them. Western ones tend to be a little better in this respect, save for Mass Effect 2, which is mostly combat.

 

[thetrin]

I'm a reductionist because they're predictable? Of fucking course there are anime that don't have to do with high school, but it's the most popular genre now. When was the last time you heard someone praising about Gundam or Baccano in the press? Anime has gone underground because there are fewer fresh ideas, not to mention the decline in traditional animation in the west. JRPGs have the same problem. Most of them basically play the same and basically have the same story. Of fucking course some JRPGs have heterodox gameplay, like TWEWY and Earthbound, but they're in the minory. Tell me why I should play Arc Rise Fantasia over Tales of Vesperia. If you can't, it's because they're the same game.
Can you call all of that reductionism?

You can apply that to every genre of gaming. Shooters are just as stagnant, but for some reason, no one seems to either 1) notice that or 2) have a problem with it.

I like new stuff and I'd love to play a JRPG that doesn't involve menus to do everything and grinding and unbalanced boss fights. But I haven't seen one this generation (Fragile had potential but just read the reviews -- everything but the story sucks).

Xenoblade. Xenoblade is the answer to everything you seek. I don't really care if you can't read japanese. The game exists. You just haven't played it yet.

 

[HK-47]

I think it's unfair to put DQ in the same category as FF. DQ games have fantastic and whimsical stories, and solid (but yes, archaic) gameplay. DQ is really not boring or cliche.

Regardless, my solution is: EVERYONE SHOULD LEARN JAPANESE AND THEN GO PLAY XENOBLADE! Solution!

Please the last two DQs had boring ass, rote as hell stories. They arent even trying anymore.

 

[ChackanKun]

The last j-rpg he played was FF13...

I think FF13 might be the last one I play lol

I can relate to the OP, Jrpgs are getting too similar to Animes, the acting and moral lessons, etc.

I can't stand one more "as long as we are together, as long as we have friends, as long as we fight for the right thing" or "we have to save the world...because of love, we have to save her...because of love, we have to save love...because of love". It's just too cheesy for me.

Last gen (PS2 and etc) I didn't have as much problems because games were finally having (console games, mind you) voice acting (the 32 bit gen didn't have that much), and I was in the peak of my anime love. Seeing the trend of animes that are coming out these days, and jrpgs following the same path...just doesn't push me.

 

[thetrin]

Please the last two DQs had boring ass, rote as hell stories. They arent even trying anymore.

The last two being 8 and 9? 9's story is awesome....

I think FF13 might be the last one I play lol

I can relate to the OP, Jrpgs are getting too similar to Animes, the acting and moral lessons, etc.

I can't stand one more "as long as we are together, as long as we have friends, as long as we fight for the right thing" or "we have to save the world...because of love, we have to save her...because of love, we have to save love...because of love". It's just too cheesy for me.

Last gen (PS2 and etc) I didn't have as much problems because games were finally having (console games, mind you) voice acting (the 32 bit gen didn't have that much), and I was in the peak of my anime love. Seeing the trend of animes that are coming out these days, and jrpgs following the same path...just doesn't push me.

Your problem isn't JRPGs. Your problem is playing the wrong JRPGs.

 

[Servizio]

you mean they were more westernized after or before?
Doesn't make sense any way...

I may be mistaken here, but I think it's actually pretty well established that Dragon Quest and then the FF series both drew a lot of the inspiration from western computer RPGs when they were first made.

I want to say Ultima specifically, but I don't think that's right. Something like Wizards and Warriors? Swords and Sorcery? Might and Magic?

 

[way more]

you'll eventually grown out of anime. I know I did, it's extremely boring and cliche nowadays.

Shut up, this is a lifestyle that I've chosen. It will be a part of me forever and it shapes my experience just as much as my sexual orientation (pillows btw.)

 

[sankt-Antonio]

... i press "start - select" whenever a cut scene shows up in FF XIII and i hear the words "Fal'Cie" or "bukakke i Cie" or "sanktum i Cie" (witch is nearly every cut scene)
because, damn the shit makes no sence and its a constant repetition of the same shit...
so i only watch the fmv sequences... and whenever hope is opening his mouth
=> "start - select" ...

im 10 hours in and i just want to have my whole party back and get out of the endless dungeons

edit: and dont get me started on snow... "hero" here "hero" there..." ill save you, ill save this"... GOD DAMN IT!

for now FF XII >----------------- FFXIII

 

[ToxicAdam]

The modern JRPG model should've looked more like Dragon Quarter. SRPG-lite battles fused with traditional JRPG overworlds/scenarios. Too bad the game wasn't a huge smash like FF7 was back in the 90's.

I want to say Ultima specifically, but I don't think that's right. Something like Wizards and Warriors? Swords and Sorcery? Might and Magic?

Wizardry was huge in Japan in the 80's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizardry

 

[BattleMonkey]

Boring ass over inflated game play is what killed jrpgs, not animu

 

[demosthenes]

it was because of anime I brought FF XIII, but played only till the end of the first disk before giving because of the confusing story.

Wat.

Though I will say they didn't do a great job of telling it, they basically said "go read all the journal updates" but I didn't think it was confusing at all :|

 

[djtiesto]

Didn't ruin 'em for me. Then again, I don't watch much anime and I realize there are other RPGs out there than the highly mediocre FF12 and 13.

 

[LosDaddie]

I have become very apathetic to everything coming out of Japan.

Same here, for the most part at least.

There were a few years where I watched a ton of anime and played JRPGs and Japanese style games all the time, but that was a long time ago. Now if I do play games from Japan, it's mainly Capcom (SSFIV, RE5, DR) and Nintendo games. Western games take up the rest.

 

[Boonoo]

I kind of feel this way in general about games and stories. Why suffer through subpar gameplay for a story when I can just watch a well produced TV show or movie--with anime covering things like metal gear and jrpgs.
That's not to say I don't enjoy when a game with good gameplay has a decent story to go along with it.

 

[MjFrancis]

Once I overcame my teen angst, I lost my profound interest in narratives that relied on that angst. Go figure.

Most JRPG's follow similar narratives, but as it's been pointed out, so do most first-person shooters. So why the difference in dissatisfaction? I suspect it's the reliance on cutscenes for the narrative in JRPG's, coupled with less-than challenging game mechanics. Can you imagine someone being bad at JRPG's? Does such a gamer even exist? If so, they would be better off watching anime, pressing play on their DVD player rather than pressing "X" for fifty hours. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, likely quite a few, but the majority of JRPG's can be completed by anyone with enough time and patience. On the other hand, I could play Quake Live (which has no cutscenes) for a thousand hours and never hope to master the game or best the top players. The difference in skill between the best and worst players is immense, unlike the "best" and "worst" players in most JRPG's. Games are more fun when there's a prospect of losing, and it requires more skill than patience to beat a FPS.

Cutscenes are the raison d'être of JRPG's, and the complexity of the game mechanics are usually secondary. If the cutscenes are unsatisfactory, there's not much game left to be enjoyed.

 

[djtiesto]

Once I overcame my teen angst, I lost my profound interest in narratives that relied on that angst. Go figure.

Most JRPG's follow similar narratives, but as it's been pointed out, so do most first-person shooters. So why the difference in dissatisfaction? I suspect it's the reliance on cutscenes for the narrative in JRPG's, coupled with less-than challenging game mechanics. Can you imagine someone being bad at JRPG's? Does such a gamer even exist?

They totally do. Like all the people who insist you need to constantly grind to beat most of em.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

I'd say it ruined characterization in japanese products wholesale.

 

[Hitokage]

djtiesto: That's one of the reasons I adored Valkyrie Profile 2. The game became more engaging and rewarding when I wasn't grinding my way to victory, and even in situations where I would be horribly outmatched, if I was clever and persistent enough there was usually still a path to victory. It was very easy to not grind too when you became good at the platforming part of the game.

 

[djtiesto]

djtiesto: That's one of the reasons I adored Valkyrie Profile 2. The game became more engaging and rewarding when I wasn't grinding my way to victory, and even in situations where I would be horribly outmatched, if I was clever and persistent enough there was usually still a path to victory. It was very easy to not grind too when you became good at the platforming part of the game.

Yup, I consider balance to be a very important part of an RPG - using buffs/debuffs, exploiting elemental weaknesses, trying other offbeat strategies, and you should not have to grind at all (apart from optional super-bosses). Definitely hear you with VP2, as I'm a big fan of tri-Ace's games, and I'm glad to see you're enjoying Resonance of Fate... you'll find that grinding isn't necessarily the answer and it's all about positioning, managing items and status effects, and cleverness (and occasionally, luck).

(This is the part where I admit I grinded Karen and Arngrim in VP2 to level 40 get their special weapons. )

 

[Hitokage]

(This is the part where I admit I grinded Karen and Arngrim in VP2 to level 40 get their special weapons. )

For shame, sir. For shame.

Chapter 4 just isn't the same without it being three hard as nails battles in a row. Not long ago I loaded up my Ch. 4 save just before the third fight and I found I had no idea how I managed to win the first time. :lol

 

[Plywood]

I totally suck at VP2 (&1), I just can't seem to wrap my head around the combat system. Probably because I see videos like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2CIKMGlpws

Then I think I'm doing something wrong, cause I'm not that awesome. :lol
Either that or my team will kick ass in one battle, then get their ass handed in the next.

Still love tri-Ace games and will buy totally end up buying VP3.

 

[Zozz]

I only play western rpg's now, I can't stand jrpg for what they have become.

 

[Hitokage]

I totally suck at VP2 (&1), I just can't seem to wrap my head around the combat system. Probably because I see videos like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2CIKMGlpws

Then I think I'm doing something wrong, cause I'm not that awesome. :lol
Either that or my team will kick ass in one battle, then get their ass handed in the next.

Still love tri-Ace games and will buy totally end up buying VP3.

You don't need super long combos like those to do well, you really just need to be good at filling your combo meter. Don't mash buttons. Every hit will add meter and then delay its decline, but the speed of various attacks vary wildly. Some have a pretty long startup while others come out quickly. It's generally good to start your slow attacks first and then follow up with progressively quicker attacks so they all end up landing around the same time. Magic is even better. Enemies that normally have strong defense against physical attacks will be vulnerable while recoiling from magic damage. Of course, also be aware that certain attacks can move the enemy around in ways that make certain followup attacks whiff.

Once you do get full meter, only characters that contributed to it can perform their PWS/Soul Crush. Some specials build more meter than others while you're left with successively less meter to continue with after each one, so experiment to see what order allows you to do as many as you can if not all four.

In Valkyrie Profile 1, you frequently have to choose between weapons that have a higher attack power with one hit, which leads to a more damaging special, or a weapon with lower attack power and multiple hits, which leads to an easier time getting a special in the first place. Also, later in the game you frequently have to use various tactics to even get a combo going, but once that first hit goes in everything else can follow.

In Valkyrie Profile 2, if you press a character's attack button again before their current attack is finished, they will CANCEL their current attack and proceed to the next one. You can waste a ton of AP if you aren't mindful of this.