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[SteeloDMZ]

I'm actually very curious about that. Dark Souls is an incredible game and experience. I'm actually quite proud of the fact that I finished my first playthrough without ever reading a FAQ or anything. It's quite funny because, by doing so, I handicapped myself big time since the ambiguity and obscurity of the game's mechanics didn't help me learning some really basic things. For example, I never summoned Solaire or any other NPC to help me with boss fights since I had no clue you had to be human to do so (and because of that, my first time against Ornstein and Smough was a bitch). I also didn't know until far into the game that you could get more Estus Flask by kindling the bonfire, and that you could even reinforce the thing.

Since Dark Souls is hot again thanks to the great Artorias of the Abyss DLC and PC version, I've been visiting the respective DS threads and I see that lots of people want specific directions on what they should do and stuff like that. Honestly, I personally don't think that's the way the game should be played (at least the first time), but if they are still getting the enjoyment they want from doing it, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

So, who finished the game without resorting to faqs, guides or explicit instructions from other players?

 

[Canis lupus]

Yeah, you figure out how to slay your enemy after so many deaths, (most of the time).

 

[Manmademan]

its a great social game, in that discovering things and talking to other players about what they figured out and what they discovered was almost as entertaining as the actual game.

I bought it day 1 and had a ton of fun with other gaffers in the official threads. wouldn't change that experience for anything.

 

[dragonlife]

I'm on my way to do so.

 

[Yoshichan]

The guide is already included in the game (with blood stains and messages).

 

[Guevara]

Ha no. I was too afraid of missing things.

 

[Croc]

IMO they take the whole "hardcore" thing way too far. No game should be nearly impossible to figure out without a guide. I had to research the multiplayer for a good hour before I understood how to use it.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Demon's Souls I did not look at guides. Dark Souls I looked online to figure out how to fight the boss in the Abyss (you needed the ring). I would recommend looking at guides as little as possible for first play through in these games.

 

[Roubjon]

Yeah, I never used a guide for this the first time I played it. I still barely use a guide for it even after playing it for around 100 hours. I just love doing my own thing in this game, even though I know for a fact that I've missed so much stuff and probably won't ever see it.

I still don't understand how Pyromancy works.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

The only thing I remember really needing a guide for was Ornstein and Smaug, and reading up on the covenants/what they actually do, the weird egg-head thing in particular. The rest was good ol' fashioned gumption/controller throwing.

 

[endresults]

I didn't look at a guide per se, but I DID use that one helm glitch that allowed you to gain souls for as long as you kept the button held down.

I regret nothing.

 

[Victrix]

Sure, both it and Demon's Souls, and it was a great experience.

The best games can be enjoyed with no outside help, and enhanced with outside help. The latter is more true if you're either playing a static game at the same time as everyone else (Dark Souls around launch) or a variable game at any time (fighting games, roguelikes, mp fps, etc).

 

[LordCanti]

With the exception of one fight (Biggie and Smalls), I didn't have any trouble with Dark Souls that wasn't related to the framerate on the 360 version. The Capra Demon in particular was an immense source of frustration, because the framerate hit the basement upon entry into his area, and he smacked me dead before I could get to the stairs.

Edit: wait, no, I had to come to GAF to ask how I was supposed to get past the two archers from hell. So yeah, two real points of frustration that required help.

Spoiler

Someone is going to dig through the original thread and find out that I'm full of shit, and that I asked for help over and over. I honestly don't remember it happening that way though. Most of my frustration was the completely fucked up online system, which never delivered me any summon signs, yet let me get invaded constantly.

 

[Kyoufu]

So you're saying that getting help from others in the community is not how one should play the game yet it encourages you to help each other through co-op and hints via messages on the ground?

 

[Prophet Steve]

I try to, and still not done with the game. But a lot of talk in threads about the game spoiled a lot of stuff.

 

[Hawkian]

Guide? Hell no. Help? Um, never would have made it without asking questions in the thread or summoning others for co-op on certain bosses.

edit: I did buy the (gorgeous) guide, but I literally didn't read a page until after the final bossfight.

 

[Masaki_]

I got stuck in several parts and I wanted to finish the game fast (still ended up being 20+ hours), so I used a guide a few times. Wish I hadn't because the first time is always the sweetest, but oh well.

 

[SteeloDMZ]

IMO they take the whole "hardcore" thing way too far. No game should be nearly impossible to figure out without a guide. I had to research the multiplayer for a good hour before I understood how to use it.

I'm completely honest when I say that, after 78 hours with the game, I still have not a single fucking clue on how the mp even works.

 

[joe2187]

IMO they take the whole "hardcore" thing way too far. No game should be nearly impossible to figure out without a guide. I had to research the multiplayer for a good hour before I understood how to use it.

Fuck that, This game is more about discovery than anything else, you find what method of combat best suits you and then you take on the world...

Besides if you read the descriptions of items, and listen to the NPCs you will understand pretty much everything

 

[Booshka]

I did it with a little bit of help from Souls GAF, but mostly just info about some of the game mechanics and how systems work since I'd never played Demon's Souls and was clueless on how to play a Souls game. I watched one of EpicNameBro's early vids with the Japanese release (Crash Course for noobs) and it saved my life and made me enjoy the game much more.

I didn't ask for help with areas or walkthrough questions until after I had at least beaten an area boss. I did summon help with some of the bosses though, but I don't think my experience was worst because of it. I did the DLC totally blind and alone, loved it, then after I beat the last DLC boss I started looking for info on areas and secrets.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

I've been semi blind as I really don't know what the various covenants offer and how I benefit or suffer from joining/disbanding other than vague tidbits I've read here and there. And don't even get me started on weapons. I'm still using a +5 Knight sword or whatever it's called. And my pyromancy isn't anything to write home about.

I love going in blind but my pvp and general knowledge suffers.

 

[SteeloDMZ]

So you're saying that getting help from others in the community is not how one should play the game yet it encourages you to help each other through co-op and hints via messages on the ground?

Who said that?

 

[Kyoufu]

Who said that?

"I personally don't think that's the way the game should be played (at least the first time)"

You may need to elaborate on that.

 

[shadyspace]

Speaking of Dark Souls and guides, I picked up the future hardcover when DS came out on consoles, I'm a PC gamer and I finally just got the game with the Amazon sale. Is that guide still relevant or are there stat changes or whatever that renders it useless

 

[NeoUltima]

Didn't use a guide, but I often summoned in people. Multiplayer is fun.
Don't think I would have beat the Four Kings alone. (tried in NG+ and it went horrible)

 

[Yopis]

Game is great both ways. Beat demon completely solo. Dark still working on but have only invaded/been invaded. Working on solo run also. NG+ will help others if anybody is still playing lol. Never looked at guides but popped into gaf threads randomly.

 

[SteeloDMZ]

"I personally don't think that's the way the game should be played (at least the first time)"

You may need to elaborate on that.

I said that getting help from the community, like forums (where people can tell you in great detail how to solve things), is not the way I'd recommend someone experiencing the game the first time. The cryptic in-game messages are totally valid since they are a game mechanic.

 

[Cheddahz]

No, getting help from people here on GAF was actually very nice and has made the experience much more enjoyable. It was literally like we were schoolkids at lunch discussing about the same game and helping each other out with our own tactics

 

[wastedyears]

I was able to do it, but I'm not especially good at the game. It took me alot longer than it would have with a guide, but I was able to do it. But I also put hundreds of hours into Demon's Souls, so the combat wasn't as difficult as it would be to someone new to King's Field/De Souls. To me, guides are for 2nd a play through, so I can find all the things I missed the first time around.

 

[Haunted]

Fuck no.

 

[Anth0ny]

Asked for help on GAF a few times.

Still the game of the gen.

 

[Conciliator]

No guide, but I did use GAF. Not necessarily in search of particular tips, but I just read about it because it's an exciting game, had an exciting release, etc., and obviously if you're reading through pages of the Dark Souls threads you're going to learn a lot of stuff about it that you would not have otherwise known.

On one hand, I probably killed some of the surprises and joy of self-sufficiency, but on the other hand I don't think I would have ever finished it without the gentle guidance of GAF.

 

[The Xtortionist]

I beat the vast majority of the game without help though I did study the mechanics pages on the wiki before playing. And guess what, the game wasn't that hard.

I bet new players would have a much easier time if there were a few "FUCKING USE BACKSTAB" messages placed by From.

 

[Persona7]

I always thought the game was meant to be played without any tips whatsoever outside of the small tips in-game, they even disabled voice chat.

The wikipedia guide community built around the games confuses me.

 

[vidcons]

there is no reason someone would need help for bosses

aside from the four kings.

but using a guide to figure out how summons and stats/weapon upgrading works is a damn near requirement

 

[SteeloDMZ]

I was able to do it, but I'm not especially good at the game. It took me alot longer than it would have with a guide, but I was able to do it. But I also put hundreds of hours into Demon's Souls, so the combat wasn't as difficult as it would be to someone new to King's Field/De Souls. To me, guides are for 2nd a play through, so I can find all the things I missed the first time around.

Yep, that's kinda what I'm doing now.

I played 75% of my new game+, again, without using a guide and found a lot of things I missed the first time. But since I required some help to discover the obscure secret boss Gwyndolin, I feel more comfortable reading the DS wikis to find more new cool stuff.

Up until recently, I still didn't know how to create weapons from the bosses' souls.

 

[Acageron]

I didn't due to missables and being scared to get my butt kicked.

But if I could do it again, I wouldn't use the guide. The experience would have meant a lot more.

 

[jon bones]

no, i can't even beat the first real boss (two gargoyles)

shit is tough b

 

[emb]

I never checked a guide or summoned help, but I did call a friend of mine a few times and ask for tips or solutions. Always more fun to have the game as an excuse to socialize, rather than just depressing yourself and looking at a walkthrough. Reminds of playing LoZ way back, and my dad would be watching, going "I think you can burn that one", "I think there's a dungeon over there" etc.

I also much prefer using an actual guide book compared to looking up help online. There's something about the limitless resource of the Internet that makes it so much less fun.

 

[TWILT]

I summoned for help and asked a friend of mine who beat the game already for tips/advice on a couple bosses, but otherwise, I only used a guide to find certain items and such. Still loved the game though.

 

[TerryWogan]

No guides for me. I played it at the same time as a few other friends on a small forum I frequent, and we talked each other through it. I was ahead for about the first half of the game though, so I was blazing a trail!

The best thing about Dark Souls is how it makes you want to talk to others and share tips/experiences. I had as much fun talking about it as I did playing it. Made me feel like I was in the school yard again talking to my friends itching to get back home to play whatever game I was playing at the time.

If you sat in a room on your own and didn't speak to anyone about it whilst you were playing it, you missed out.

 

[Haunted]

I'm completely honest when I say that, after 78 hours with the game, I still have not a single fucking clue on how the mp even works.

And if you don't ask, you never will. The game doesn't tell you how it works, so there's no way you could.

 

[Mileena]

I needed to look at a guide to navigate because I forget where everything is. I also co-op and PvP with a friend a lot because it's super fun. PvP is one of my favorite things about the game, lagstabs aside.

 

[Manmademan]

Speaking of Dark Souls and guides, I picked up the future hardcover when DS came out on consoles, I'm a PC gamer and I finally just got the game with the Amazon sale. Is that guide still relevant or are there stat changes or whatever that renders it useless

It's not useless- it has some pretty detailed maps, including hidden areas, and boss/enemy strategies have not changed.

There have been adjustments to stats of certain items, but you can easily pick up on the changes by looking at the patch notes on any of the Dark Souls wikis. There haven't really been that many- just a few hilariously broken items got nerfed (crystal ring shield, that dress that Dusk of Oolacile wears) but the majority of the items still do what the guide says they do, more or less.

 

[Nocturnowl]

I guess I should mention there are a few spoilers in this post but I imagine due to the thread criteria it's nothing much.

For the most part I went without assistance but every now and then i'd comb through the thread here on Gaf for some boss advice if I was taking too much of a beating and probably ended up learning other tips along the way, one thing i'm sure of is that I wouldn't have gone all the way back to Blight Town from Anor Londo to get the Eagle Shield as assistance for dealing with Smough and Ornstein without learning elsewhere that it would be a damn useful item to have.
And some stuff to do with New Londo Ruins I imagine, like the whole ring business.
Also I was conversing with my friends who got the game as well so we shared information, I share the sentiments of others here who say how it was a great social experience.

Those things aside I pretty much went alone outside of the message system of course, no boss assistance either, a victory earned alone feels ultimately more satisfying.
Discovering the Great Hollow as soon as I got to the swamp area of Blight Town due to a hidden message felt as if i'd stumbled upon a great secret, that whole ordeal wouldn't be anywhere near as memorable if I knew all about it and what awaited me, if I did for one thing I would've not bothered venturing down so early for numerous reasons.
In fact I first entered Blight Town through the "back door" by accident anyway, gotta love that master key, exploration is more fun when you don't know what awaits you.

It's the little discoveries as well that made the whole experience richer like getting into the upper area of Darkroot Garden through the back (once again, thank you message system), no overpriced crest for me yet I never knew about that cave behind the hydra until reading up on the DLC info which brings me to another point, the great thing is now going through a second file and using a guide i'm finding various things I completely missed the first time so there's still a lot of freshness here.

Basically you should avoid guides when you first go through, but ask for help when needed and then when you're finally done you can read up on the many other things hidden within.

 

[K' Dash]

GAF was my guide, Yoshi was very helpful in that thread, I woulnt have finished the game without some of the advice people was giving.

 

[ShadowgeistX]

So, who finished the game without resorting to faqs, guides or explicit instructions from other players?

I did, it was something I set out to do for this game. I refused to summon anyone for any help my first time around as well. Died countless times against the gargoyles, O&S, Kings...pretty much every boss save for a few.

It makes every stage feel so much longer, the tension is so much higher too. I was always looking around, checking for traps and/or random shenanigans like enemies dropping from behind. Now I run through the stages 2-handing my weapon. It really is different.

 

[The One Who Knocks]

*Dark Souls spoilers throughout this post relating to the entire game so if you've not played the game I wouldn't advise reading this*

I did but I had a slight knowledge of the game's features going in to begin with because I played Demon's Souls very extensively and as a result I had a basic idea as to how the weapon upgrade system would probably work, how the online system would work, how to use spells and miracles (as in, that you need a catalyst for spells and a talisman for miracles), what each stat did (with the exception of Resistance because that was new and I didn't know if there was some obscure purpose to it so I completely ignored it on my first playthrough) and that item descriptions would play a significant part in an understanding of the game.

I picked a Pyromancer (because it started at Level 1 as the Royal did) and the Pendant (because it's use seemed unclear and I thought it may be important later on). I initially, foolishly, spent about an hour going into the Catacombs. Making little progress I returned to Firelink Shrine to level up slightly and look for an alternative way to go when I ended up entering New Londo Ruins, another thirty minutes of little progress and I finally found the correct way to proceed for an initial playthrough, the Undead Burg.

From here, everything was pretty straight forward. The path I progressed through was: Undead Burg, Undead Parish, Bell Gargoyles (at the Bell Gargoyles I ended up cutting off the tail so I returned to kill the dragon and see if I could cut off his tail, rewarding me with the Drake Sword), Undead Asylum (I fell off the lift as it was going down but didn't fall enough to die from it. I used the 20,000 souls to buy the Crest of Artorias), Darkroot Garden (I used the hostile NPCs here as a way to obtain souls regularly, at least until I arrived in Anor Londo, and used it to regain all of the souls that were required to open the door), Sif (I spent a significant amount of time at the tail before realising it couldn't be cut off), Moonlight Butterfly, Lower Undead Burg, Capra Demon, The Depths (I actually got invaded here by Kirk because I got humanity from the rats and used them to kindle the bonfire which led to me becoming human when I had the opportunity in case such events occured which also ended up allowing me to see Solaire's sign), Gaping Dragon, Blighttown, Quelaag, Ceaseless Discharge, Demon's Ruins (but the fog gate was blocked so I returned to Firelink Shrine, only to find the firekeeper murdered by and the treacherous Lautrec missing) and from there, the path to the end of the game was more or less clear (I died twice falling into the Abyss however, an area that I tackled immediately after returning to Firelink Shrine which resulted in me finding the Darkwraiths). Fortunately I never got cursed because I never would have figured out how to remove that.

In the first playthrough, with regards to covenants, I mised the Dragon Covenant and the Sunlight Covenant. I found the Darkmoon Blade by checking the trophies and seeing that I still had a boss left. Finding the covenant was an unintentional side effect of finding the boss.

I missed the entire Great Hollow/Ash Lake area. I found the actual entrance (the first illusory wall) but despite there being messages all my attacks missed the illusory part so I went away thinking it was simply a chest.

The only NPC I missed was Dusk of Oolacile. I killed the Hydra but I never returned to that area.

The questlines I did not complete were:
Siegmeyer of Catarina. I found his daughter and found him in Blighttown but I never discovered him in Lost Izalith.
Solaire. Well, I finished his questline in that I murdered him when he became hollowed but I did not manage to keep him alive until Gwyn.
Dusk of Oolacile's (since I never returned to the area, I never saw the golem and thus never freed her).
Big Hat Logan. I managed to free him in Duke's Archive but in an almost comedic manner, despite investigating the entire area, including where he was actually located and walking past him multiple times in that tiny room, I never found where he moved to (which, as stated, is embarassing because I am certain I investigated that room multiple times so obviously walked right past him).
Kirk of Throns. I missed his invade in the Demon's Ruins.

I stole humanity from and killed every remaining NPC as I finished the game getting a significant amount of humanity (which I used to reinforce a significant amount of bonfires three times) while also gathering any unique gear that they posessed (I had already betrayed the Forest Covenant however by killing the invisible ninja and Shiva in Blighttown, hoping to get the invisibility ring [assuming it was the Thief's Ring from Demon's Souls] from the ninja) .

Just to add, I never managed to get any co-op summons with other players on my first playthrough either. I found one summon sign in the Catacombs but I got "Summon Failed" so ended up progressing through the entire game (because the Catacombs and Tomb of the Giants were the final areas I went through). Likewise, I never managed to invade anybody, I always got an error message so my first playthrough was spent mostly solo (the exceptions being that I summoned Solaire for the Gaping Dragon Fight and Maneater Mildred for Quelaag).

I explored pretty much every area a significant amount, ending my first playthrough at, I believe, 54 hours doing almost everything that could be done within the game. As a previous user stated, the guide is already in the game in the form of the message system and with that and an extreme amount of exploration I really don't think it is as difficult to complete the game without a guide as most people suggest.

 

[Mike M]

The online system and covenants were pretty goddamned obtuse, but I can see how that might be worked out on one's own.

I think the only part I would have never figured out on a million years is how to traverse the abyss and fight the 4 Kings. I think it requires having read the description of the Covenant of Artorias and some other ramdom item description mentioning that the 4 Kings were imprisoned in the Abyss.

 

[Hypron]

I looked at a few things on the dark souls wiki before and during my new playthrough. I was kinda stuck in 2 places where I did not really know where I was supposed to go next, so I just looked at the name of the next zone and played from there. I never looked at boss strategies until I defeated them (although after defeating one, I'd look at the wiki to check whether I had missed anything that I should get on my next playthrough).