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Did Nirvana really impact the alternative rock scene?

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Subprime said:
But really, queen was influental and good, but sabbath basically started metal. People are still catching up to the first sabbath album. 40 years later, iron maiden still isn't nearly as heavy as the first three notes of black sabbath - black sabbath - black sabbath.
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Sabbath is definitely one of the most influential bands ever. They simultaneously formed the basis for heavy metal and hardcore punk with their first few albums.

The metal influence is obvious, but listen to paranoid and children of the grave and try and tell me those aren't punk songs before punk was even a thing.

I truly believe that Tony Iommi's missing fingertips are responsible for changing the music world completely.
 
I look at music like an ever-growing tree with various branches that cross over all the time, some blooming brighter than others at any given moment.

The thing about Nirvana is that their branch coincided with the death of glam, the last gasps of New Wave, and a clear and decipherable separation of Alternative from 'Rock'. I know the under 30 set will laugh at this, but when Nirvana came out it made all that nonsense from bands like Van Halen and Twisted Sister and songs like "She's My Cherry Pie" and...everything...look like utter nonsense. And of course it looked like nonsense -- it was.

They certainly weren't responsible for everything that came afterward, or their fortuitous launching point coinciding with Metallica and GnR or west coast rap all kinda going mainstream at the same time. But as part of the MTV-before-the-Real-World (remember Pedro and Puck?) generation, you would've had to been there to understand. ...Teen Spirit was like nothing else out there.

Part of the big separation that Nirvana created from the rest of the pack, beyond that hypnotizing bass line from Come as you are, is that Kurt Cobain was a symbolic opposite of Axl Rose, Michael Stipe, Michael Hutchence, etc. He was raw and vulnerable and exactly what teenagers will always want to hear: life sucks right now, leave me alone, I hate everything, lets do drugs.

BTW, don't forget that Nevermind was actually their second album.
 
brianjones said:
ill take nirvana you can have the rest
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This passage from the Nirvana wiki page should clear up any questions:

Initially, DGC Records was hoping to sell 250,000 copies of Nevermind, which was the same level they had achieved with Sonic Youth's Goo.[37] However, the album's first single "Smells Like Teen Spirit" quickly gained momentum, thanks in part to significant airplay of the song's music video on MTV. As it toured Europe during late 1991, the band found that its shows were dangerously oversold, that television crews were becoming a constant presence onstage, and that "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was almost omnipresent on radio and music television.[38]

By Christmas 1991, Nevermind was selling 400,000 copies a week in the US.[39] In January 1992, the album displaced Michael Jackson's Dangerous at number one on the Billboard album charts, and also topped the charts in numerous other countries.[40] The month Nevermind reached number one, Billboard proclaimed, "Nirvana is that rare band that has everything: critical acclaim, industry respect, pop radio appeal, and a rock-solid college/alternative base."[41] The album would eventually sell over seven million copies in the United States.[42]
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PantherLotus said:
The thing about Nirvana is that their branch coincided with the death of glam, the last gasps of New Wave, and a clear and decipherable separation of Alternative from 'Rock'. I know the under 30 set will laugh at this, but when Nirvana came out it made all that nonsense from bands like Van Halen and Twisted Sister and songs like "She's My Cherry Pie" and...everything...look like utter nonsense. And of course it looked like nonsense -- it was.

They certainly weren't responsible for everything that came afterward, or their fortuitous launching point coinciding with Metallica and GnR or west coast rap all kinda going mainstream at the same time. But as part of the MTV-before-the-Real-World (remember Pedro and Puck?) generation, you would've had to been there to understand. ...Teen Spirit was like nothing else out there.

Part of the big separation that Nirvana created from the rest of the pack, beyond that hypnotizing bass line from Come as you are, is that Kurt Cobain was a symbolic opposite of Axl Rose, Michael Stipe, Michael Hutchence, etc. He was raw and vulnerable and exactly what teenagers will always want to hear: life sucks right now, leave me alone, I hate everything, lets do drugs.

BTW, don't forget that Nevermind was actually their second album.
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great post now.
 
Salmonax said:
Around half that. Research is not Dishwalla's strength, as we found in the other thread.
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And that diminishes their influence, how? It's different genres, yes, but really Blink-182 was every bit as influential as Nirvana(in fact their influence is still being heard directly approx ten years after their initial emergence, unlike the vague influence of Nirvana had ten years after they came out), so much so the whole record labels wouldn't have existed if it weren't for them(as pointed out by that MTV article).
 
Dishwalla said:
And that diminishes their influence, how? It's different genres, yes, but really Blink-182 was every bit as influential as Nirvana(in fact their influence is still being heard directly approx ten years after their initial emergence, unlike the vague influence of Nirvana had ten years after they came out), so much so the whole record labels wouldn't have existed if it weren't for them(as pointed out by that MTV article).
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Holy shit man you just said Blink was as influential as Nirvana. That's ridiculous no matter what your definition of influential is.


That's like saying Master P was more influential than Dr. Dre because P's progeny lasted longer. Blink is cool and all, but jesus christ this ain't even up for debate. Blink didn't change a thing. Nirvana changed everything.
 
Dishwalla said:
And that diminishes their influence, how? It's different genres, yes, but really Blink-182 was every bit as influential as Nirvana(in fact their influence is still being heard directly approx ten years after their initial emergence, unlike the vague influence of Nirvana had ten years after they came out), so much so the whole record labels wouldn't have existed if it weren't for them(as pointed out by that MTV article).
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Everyone, just walk the fuck away at this point. Just walk away.
 
Combichristoffersen said:
Maiden aren't even as heavy as Dickinson's last three solo albums. I remember reading a review of Chemical Wedding back in the late 90s where Maiden was described as sounding like sewing machines compared to the massive, heavy crunch of Adrian Smith's guitarwork in Dickinson's solo band.



The difference is that AC/DC and Motörhead had great riffs and solos to rehash. Slayer had neither.
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None of those three bands are my style of music, but slayer is pretty undeniable. They do their thing, and they do it a lot better than most thrash bands (they beat the shit out of metallica). They come across as mad as hell metal, rather than metallica who tends to come across as "eh I guess were supposed to sorta sound mad or somethin?"

iamblades said:
Sabbath is definitely one of the most influential bands ever. They simultaneously formed the basis for heavy metal and hardcore punk with their first few albums.

The metal influence is obvious, but listen to paranoid and children of the grave and try and tell me those aren't punk songs before punk was even a thing.

I truly believe that Tony Iommi's missing fingertips are responsible for changing the music world completely.
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It loops back in black sabbath with the my war B side.
 
Dishwalla said:
And that diminishes their influence, how? It's different genres, yes, but really Blink-182 was every bit as influential as Nirvana(in fact their influence is still being heard directly approx ten years after their initial emergence, unlike the vague influence of Nirvana had ten years after they came out), so much so the whole record labels wouldn't have existed if it weren't for them(as pointed out by that MTV article).
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I really don't have time to do this but you're just flat-out wrong. You can hear Nirvana influence throughout current music. Silversun Pickups, even the newest indie darlings Cloud Nothings obviously draw influence from them. And it's more than just the music, it was a movement that they fronted.
 
Kurt's lyrics really glowed at times. He could write little tales that spanned only a few minutes, but they kind of stuck with you. Like a good book or poem I suppose.
 
PantherLotus said:
Your username is one my secret favorite Metallica songs, post black. Don't tell anyone, though.
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Haha. I liked Load well enough. I mean, it doesn't touch their first five CD's and is so mellow it's pretty weird. But, I like it. Reload is where the whole hammering any idea into a full song becomes painfully apparent. It's interesting on Some Kind of Monster to hear James openly admit that they forced those CD's too much and how he doesn't want to do that ever again. End result being St. Anger besides the point.

Dishwalla said:
Except, outside of the four or five years they were super popular, they didn't. Get over it.
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Seriously, dude. I FUCKING HATE Nirvana. Their massive influence is un-fucking-deniable. You are so wrong it's painful. You are wrong. Wrong. Just fucking wrong.
 
ridley182 said:
I understand loving a band so much that it distorts reality but.... no.
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Who said I even liked Blink-182? I didn't. It's an observation, after witnessing the Sum 41's and the Good Charlottes and the Fall Out Boys and the All Time Lows and the Paramores that spawned in their wake(a whole decade of influence, for those not paying attention).

And lol at Silversun Pickups being the supposed product of Nirvana's influence. More like Sonic Youth or even Smashing Pumpkins.
 
Silversun Pickups chose that name because they wanted something S and P due to their love of the Pumpkins, pretty sure they said that
 
Hey remember when i said musicGAF would tear you a new one Dishwalla? Looks like musicGAF did not disappoint!

Dishwalla said:
Why does it really even matter? You're argument that one had to be there to really judge the impact of Nirvana is total bunk. It's like saying you had to be there in the 60s to truly know the impact of The Beatles or you simply had to live through the 70s to know the impact of Led Zeppelin, or The Ramones/Sex Pistols/The Clash. It's bullshit.

But, just for you, I was just old enough to remember grunge at it's peak in about 92-93, old enough to see the news reports of Kurt Cobain's death, and old enough to notice the Green Day's and the Offspring's start taking over Nirvana's airspace on MTV and the radio.
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I knew it. This makes a lot of sense. Those of us who were alive and old enough to care about music in the years before, during, and after Nirvana know different and recognize the influence Nirvana had on alternative/college/indie/rock music bands afterwards.
 
Dishwalla said:
And that diminishes their influence, how? It's different genres, yes, but really Blink-182 was every bit as influential as Nirvana(in fact their influence is still being heard directly approx ten years after their initial emergence, unlike the vague influence of Nirvana had ten years after they came out), so much so the whole record labels wouldn't have existed if it weren't for them(as pointed out by that MTV article).
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Lol ..... Blink 182 and Nirvana in the same sentence.

Dude ...... Nirvana will be forever considered as influential and Kurt Cobain an icon (even though he never wanted to be).


.... Blink 182 , lol.
 
Dishwalla said:
Clearly. Spending several minutes typing up a pretty in depth counterargument sure is lazy. Especially compared to your post.
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Your post is well-reasoned but I disagree with most of it and some is just inaccurate.

Nirvana was a sea-change from everything that was going on at the moment which was "big rock n' roll".
Queen. Guns N' Roses. Michael Jackson, etc. it was all "big".

Kurt was anti-corporate, anti-egotist "rockstar", and spearheaded the "alternative moment".
Their sound was raw, in-your-face, unpolished and his person reflected that.

Guns N Roses killed glam and 80s pop, not Nirvana. They changed the sound.
Nirvana killed the 80s "me-generation" attitude. They changed the ideology.

But I think that's selling them short, Bleach is a doom/acid metal record, Nevermind is pop punk record, In Utero is a industrio-punk record.
So Nirvana had is body of work that was reflective of the culture: diverse, older ideas mixed with fresh blood, etc.

Also Dave started Foo Fighters because Kurt, him, and Kris were all fighting over Nirvana and Kurt was falling apart due to his heroin use.
Kurt recorded "You Know You're Right" separately from the rest of the band just like Axl did with GNR before they split, if memory serves.

I do agree with the "Seattle sound" marketing thing. There's no one type of "grunge" just like there is no one type of rock or punk or whatever.
 
Dishwalla said:
Still waiting for the inevitable example. So far we've had a misfire with Silversun Pickups.
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I'm trying to decide if I should take my own advice and walk away from your craziness or continue on this path.

Seether has a pretty hardcore Nirvana influence they wear loud and proud, Cold, Puddle of Mudd, Flyleaf, fucking Miley Cyrus even made headlines by pissing people off by covering Nirvana. Those are bands that take direct musical influence from them. Then there are those that may not have taken influence, but owe their careers to Nirvana getting huge at the time they were around, like Pearl Jam.

I don't know how you can even diminish the legacy of a band the flat out changed and defined music in the 90's. Think about that. One band changed all rock in the 90's. And you're trying to say they aren't a huge influence.
 
Dishwalla said:
Still waiting for the inevitable example. So far we've had a misfire with Silversun Pickups.
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To be fair your example of Blink's boy-band influence was Good Charlotte and Fall Out Boy and Paramore. Those are your examples?

Kurt Cobain created the first Elvis-is-dead moment for many in our generation. Blink created a few good songs like What's my age again that had something to do with prank calling your mom or something. Good, but...come on.
 
Enron said:
Hey remember when i said musicGAF would tear you a new one Dishwalla? Looks like musicGAF did not disappoint!
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They're clearly not doing a good job when they still can't provide an example of Nirvana's "everlasting impact".

Other than, you know, Shinedown or Puddle Of Mudd or Seether. Oh, thank you Kurt for your continued influence! Where would we be without these mediocre post-grunge acts?

And just as Nirvana influenced the mediocrity of these bands, Blink influenced the mediocrity of Paramore, Fall Out Boy, and Good Charlotte. Like I said, it's a different genre, but the influence is still there.
 
OH! He was 6 when Cobain died. His musical moment was 98, when Blink was slightly different than Green Day. Got it. Moving on.
 
Dishwalla said:
They're clearly not doing a good job when they still can't provide an example of Nirvana's "everlasting impact".

Other than, you know, Shinedown or Puddle Of Mudd or Seether. Oh, thank you Kurt for your continued influence! Where would we be without these mediocre post-grunge acts?
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Well you never said their influence had to be positive...

The point is, it is impossible to turn on rock radio and not hear Nirvana's influence to this very day..

Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is left as an exercise for the reader, and is so subjective that it's basically unanswerable.
 
Dishwalla said:
They're clearly not doing a good job when they still can't provide an example of Nirvana's "everlasting impact".

Other than, you know, Shinedown or Puddle Of Mudd or Seether. Oh, thank you Kurt for your continued influence! Where would we be without these mediocre post-grunge acts?
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So because you don't like them they don't count. I see. Seether has sold millions of CD's and are very clearly heavily influenced by Nirvana (they cover multiple of their songs all the fucking time). But, you don't like them, so they don't count. You're good at debating.

iamblades said:
The point is, it is impossible to turn on rock radio and not hear Nirvana's influence to this very day.
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Exactly.
 
Wait, I know I said I'm moving on, but why exactly are we talking about influence by attempting to describe bands that sound like them? That's remarkably dumb.
 
Dishwalla said:
And that diminishes their influence, how? It's different genres, yes, but really Blink-182 was every bit as influential as Nirvana(in fact their influence is still being heard directly approx ten years after their initial emergence, unlike the vague influence of Nirvana had ten years after they came out), so much so the whole record labels wouldn't have existed if it weren't for them(as pointed out by that MTV article).
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My brain is melting out of my ears ohgod someone help me please
 
Crunched said:
My brain is melting out of my ears ohgod someone help me please
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What will really blow your mind is the realization that Blind Melon was more influential than Alice in Chains because more bands tried to sound like them after they were gone, nevermind the whole millions-of-albums thing.
 
Why are copycat bands the barometer of influence?

So silly.

Whatever. Have your squabbles.

I'm sorry that you're favorite bands don't get enough credit. Sour grapes.
 
PantherLotus said:
Wait, I know I said I'm moving on, but why exactly are we talking about influence by attempting to describe bands that sound like them? That's remarkably dumb.
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I was just thinking this same thing. "Influence" meaning "we sound just like them".

Nearly every single alternative or indie rock act of any consequence of the last 20 years cites Nirvana as an influence. But yet, Dishwalla knows better!
 
PantherLotus said:
Wait, I know I said I'm moving on, but why exactly are we talking about influence by attempting to describe bands that sound like them? That's remarkably dumb.
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At least in Blink-182's case, I'm talking about bands that have specifically named them as an influence. All of the bands I have named have pointed to them as a huge influence on their work.
 
A good example of a lack of influence is not changing the fucking genre forever so that anybody that tried would look ridiculously foolish. See: Collective Soul. A fine band by any measure, ridiculously boring after hearing Cobain wail on Lake of Fire.

Blink 182 is a punk band born of post-Green Day/Dookie influences with a playful/skater vibe. There's 100 better skater punk bands that sound just like them! Btw, check out Zebrahead for an idea of what nu metal sounded like right in the middle of blink and GD and limp bizcut and korn. Good, fun, and meaningless.
 
Buckethead said:
Why are copycat bands the barometer of influence?
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It's the most tangible way of seeing it. It's harder to argue the way they changed the scene. Far easier to point out the fact that as someone else said, to this day you can't turn on rock radio without hearing bands that rip off Nirvana.
 
PantherLotus said:
Wait, I know I said I'm moving on, but why exactly are we talking about influence by attempting to describe bands that sound like them? That's remarkably dumb.
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Exactly.

It was the bands that aped Nirvana and Pearl Jam's sounds that hastened the public's turning away from that kind of music.

Music evolves. Do you think a theoretical fifth Nirvana album would sound like their earlier work?

The original question was if Nirvana had an impact on the alternative rock scene. Of course they did. I don't see how that can be argued. To call Nirvana a "fad" shows one's lack of perspective.
 
kylej said:
Nirvana is as influential and formative as Elvis or The Beatles in the history of music.
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Was going to post this hours ago now I had to because of someone wanting to equate shit 182 with Nirvana...lol..

Nirvana had a music taste shift effect on the country and they well may have been the last to do so in recent music history. Its going to be difficult to it again seeing as physical mediums are going extinct and the influence of the internet. They were an evolvement in the old era of how the music industry still was, any future shifts are not going to feel the same because things move so fast now we don't know what that looks like yet.
 
Enron said:
Nearly every single alternative or indie rock act of any consequence of the last 20 years cites Nirvana as an influence.
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Any thing to back that up? How about Green Day, a band that saw success immediately after Nirvana? I've never heard Billie Joe Armstrong say that Nirvana influenced him in any way. Yet they've been one of the biggest and most consistent names in rock these last two decades(along with the Foo Fighters, but I think the Nirvana influence is more than obvious there).
 
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