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[funkygunther]

It burned my ass that they had an official keyboard accessory and you couldn't map numbers or f-keys to actions in PSO, especially since a magic character would have way more spells than you can assign with a controller.

ha that keyboard was there for one game and one game only

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

there were exactly three things wrong with the Dreamcast

1. the controller
2. the loudness of the disc drive
3. that there were never double layer GD-Roms or something similar.

other than that an amazing system with a great library of games. Sega released so much in such a short timeframe. Something never to be seen again.

 

[6502]

there were exactly three things wrong with the Dreamcast

1. the controller
2. the loudness of the disc drive
3. that there were never double layer GD-Roms or something similar.

other than that an amazing system with a great library of games. Sega released so much in such a short timeframe. Something never to be seen again.

The pad criples healthy hands but that sweet zzeerrrsssttt shhh zrrppp! Sound of the disc drive is more satisfying than clunking a nes cart in a toaster and loading first time. I heard some clicky clacky ones, but a DC in good condition is merely confirming it is doing serious business.

The only better sound in electronics is a top loading beta max, winding the tape back in and presenting you a cassette like a mechanical butler.

 

[DinosaurNerd89]

I think the Dreamcast was quite charming and underrated. Too bad Sega royally screwed the pooch in the years leading up to it.

 

[Happosai]

Maybe it's my nostalgia glasses talking again but I'm just thinking of that brief period from 1999 to 2001 or so.

I'm not saying the DC itself was the peak gaming console but it's library was kind of a microcosm of what gaming was like at the time.

We had 3D games coming into their own while 2D games were hitting their peak. Arcades were still alive and we still got a healthy dose of arcade style games. We even saw the beginnings of MMORPGs and MOBAs with games like PSO.

Resident Evil was finally moving into full 3D. Great talent was making unique games like Powerstone and Crazy Taxi and Rez which we might never see again. it was like the best of all worlds. Like a crossroads between "modern" and more classic gaming.

By the time PS2 came around we were fully in the modern era.

Anyway don't want to rant too much but I feel that was a special time when I look back.

It's not nostalgia glasses. You'll have to look at the what Dreamcast did differently that set the stage for many platforms to come:

- State of the art graphics
- Highly original titles (the majority of which were exclusively Sega)
- Adapting mini games into the memory
- Having Windows CE /DirectX and enabling users to browser the web and possibly game online (although I'm not sure how frequently this was used)
- The compact design for such a powerhouse (Gamecube seemed to be the following console to go in that direction)
- This one may or may not be correct but it seems that there was no region lock on Dreamcast and you could buy the JP games with those being readable on a U.S. DC

Sega really was something else in the 90's. They tried CD-ROM consoles previously but none had quite the touch DC did.

 

[PhaseJump]

Dreamcast was the least successful Sega console, and a monument to their failure.

 

[Havoc2049]

It's not nostalgia glasses. You'll have to look at the what Dreamcast did differently that set the stage for many platforms to come:

- State of the art graphics
- Highly original titles (the majority of which were exclusively Sega)
- Adapting mini games into the memory
- Having Windows CE /DirectX and enabling users to browser the web and possibly game online (although I'm not sure how frequently this was used)
- The compact design for such a powerhouse (Gamecube seemed to be the following console to go in that direction)
- This one may or may not be correct but it seems that there was no region lock on Dreamcast and you could buy the JP games with those being readable on a U.S. DC

Sega really was something else in the 90's. They tried CD-ROM consoles previously but none had quite the touch DC did.

Dreamcast had a total of 32 games with online multiplayer, with some heavy hitters like Phantasy Star Online, the 2K1 and 2K2 sports games, Bomberman Online, Capcom vs SNK 2, Daytona USA 2001, Quake III Arena, Unreal Tournament, San Francisco Rush 2049 and Starlancer.

A bunch of other games had online functionality, like Sega GT, Metropolis Street Racer, Shenmue and a few others.

The Dreamcast was region locked, but after a short time, it was as simple as burning a boot disc, put disc in Dreamcast, take out boot disc and put in the PAL or NTSC-J game of your choice and enjoy.

BTW, I'm with the one poster who said '95-'05 was the best time to be a gamer. For me anyways, I had so many good times gaming on my PC, Saturn, NGPC, Dreamcast, GBA and Xbox. The online communities for MMORPGs, simulations, strategy/real-time war games and FPSs were amazing. Games had awesome quality of life improvements, yet weren't dumbed down yet for the lowest common denominator. Awesome online games without all the MTX bullshit. PC, consoles, the arcades and handhelds were all on fire back then.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Like, no, but also maybe yes?

Like in terms of the density of releases that excited me personally, Dreamcast was the peak. It doesn't mean that there weren't more great games for GC or PS2 in the long run, but the DC only lasted two years and they were damn good years. They also felt like a sort of transitional sweet spot where gaming still had a lot of that 16-bit charm and emphasis on pick-up-and-play fun, and the experimentation of the early 3D era. 3D gaming matured a lot after that, but often tended to feel a little more... serious.

I know some of it is just that I'm older and harder to impress now. The amount of games coming out now is more than I can keep up with and there's a lot of great stuff.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Dreamcast was the least successful Sega console, and a monument to their failure.

Except it wasn't, it was actually Sega's fastest selling console, matching what the Saturn did lifetime in only about two years. They just didn't have the resources to keep going. The failures of the Saturn and 32X had just depleted their war chest by then.

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

Except it wasn't, it was actually Sega's fastest selling console, matching what the Saturn did lifetime in only about two years. They just didn't have the resources to keep going. The failures of the Saturn and 32X had just depleted their war chest by then.

the writing was already on the wall even before the Dreamcast was released. See Segagaga. Sega knew that they would most likely fail. I mean the Dreamcast did decently, but in order for Sega to survive in the hardware business it needed to do much better.

 

[NickFire]

I had a great time with Dreamcast, but if I'm being honest it was one of gaming's lower points. It was quite literally the 4th consecutive peripheral or console that Sega burned people on in a very short period of time IMO. Sega CD, 32X, Saturn, and then Dreamcast. Not a single one had good and long lasting support.

The only lasting legacy was NBA 2k. I'll give it that.

 

[PhaseJump]

Except it wasn't, it was actually Sega's fastest selling console, matching what the Saturn did lifetime in only about two years. They just didn't have the resources to keep going. The failures of the Saturn and 32X had just depleted their war chest by then.

Race to the bottom and lose all the money. Sega's least successful console.

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

Not a single one had good and long lasting support.

I call bullshit on this one. Not a single time were so many great and creative games released in such a short time period. Sega was on fire with the Dreamcast.

The Saturn also had many good games, it just didn't have the "right ones" (like no Sonic, focused on 2D when 3D was mainstream etc.) and had a poor reputation (can't do 3D).

 

[01011001]

GTA V is an infinitely better open world game than GTA III

the fuck it is... GTA V is a linear, scripted game with an open world hub word between missions.

GTA 3 at least tried to have more free flowing open ended missions with different strategies to beat them

modern Rockstar Games style is so fucking limiting that Call of Duty called because it wants its game design back!

GTA 3 might have not had the detail but it at least tried to be an open world game and use the open world for more than just fucking around in-between missions

 

[NickFire]

I call bullshit on this one. Not a single time were so many great and creative games released in such a short time period. Sega was on fire with the Dreamcast.

The Saturn also had many good games, it just didn't have the "right ones" (like no Sonic, focused on 2D when 3D was mainstream etc.) and had a poor reputation (can't do 3D).

Call bullshit all you want - it don't change history. I owned all 4 items that I listed, paid for them all with money I could save as a kid (and into early adult years), and got burned all 4 times in the end. So did Sega!

 

[MidGenRefresh]

the fuck it is... GTA V is a linear, scripted game with an open world hub word between missions.

GTA 3 at least tried to have more free flowing open ended missions with different strategies to beat them

modern Rockstar Games style is so fucking limiting that Call of Duty called because it wants its game design back!

GTA 3 might have not had the detail but it at least tried to be an open world game and use the open world for more than just fucking around in-between missions

GTA III had like 5 missions where you can express your creativity. Everything else was scripted in typical Rockstar fashion. They are famous for making the most believable, complex open worlds with the most scripted linear bullshit missions where you fail if you breathe at the controller the wrong way.

Nobody in their right mind would want to play GTA III over GTA V in 2022.

 

[Fafalada]

Plus with DC we never saw too many more big AAA-budgeted games for it outside of Shenmue II and Sonic Adventure 2

'AAA' budgets practically didn't exist when DC launched - it was almost entirely an invention of that generation.
Even PS2 is in the low-double digits, and that's being generous.

By the time PS2 came around we were fully in the modern era.

I mean if we're talking about the 'peak' point where game mechanics haven't meaningfully changed since - it was hit sometime in 360/PS3 era.
Though it's debatable that we lost a lot of interesting concepts from the 90ies in transition, and some have only started to come back in second half of last decade.

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

Call bullshit all you want - it don't change history. I owned all 4 items that I listed, paid for them all with money I could save as a kid (and into early adult years), and got burned all 4 times in the end. So did Sega!

The Dreamcast's failure was a result of 32X and Saturn failing and the almost notorious fight between SOA and SOJ. A lack of games was never the issue with the Dreamcast. And in someway that also includes the Saturn, which had a good library, although they failed to provide sequels to most genesis classics, most importantly Sonic.

Bad to hear that you got burned out and wasted money, but I don't see how the games were the issue here, especially for the Dreamcast you had a great selection to choose from. It's a shame the system only lasted for 2 years, but at least it were 2 years full of great games.

 

[yurinka]

If now is the peak of gaming, why are the exclusive ps2 games from 2001 alone better than the entire ps5 library?

Because PS5 was released recently and we had a global pandemic that delayed many important games. In any case, PS5 runs PS4 games too (and PS4 is still alive) and PS4 has better games than these ones for these genres.

 

[NickFire]

The Dreamcast's failure was a result of 32X and Saturn failing and the almost notorious fight between SOA and SOJ. A lack of games was never the issue with the Dreamcast. And in someway that also includes the Saturn, which had a good library, although they failed to provide sequels to most genesis classics, most importantly Sonic.

Bad to hear that you got burned out and wasted money, but I don't see how the games were the issue here, especially for the Dreamcast you had a great selection to choose from. It's a shame the system only lasted for 2 years, but at least it were 2 years full of great games.

If you're only talking about the games it had, then I can understand your point of view (still disagree, but I appreciate it). At the time it had the best sports games, and I had fun with more than just the sports games. On the topic of sports games specifically, the NFL 2k was so good EA went and money hatted the entire NFL license because Madden wasn't anywhere near as good and they didn't want to compete.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

'AAA' budgets practically didn't exist when DC launched - it was almost entirely an invention of that generation.
Even PS2 is in the low-double digits, and that's being generous.

I meant by the standards of that time; every gen from NES onward has had its AAA-type/level of game IMO. You know, the big-budgeted games that usually had top-of-the-line production values for their era.

SMB3, Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger etc. You can easily tell more money, budget, etc. went into those compared to, say, a Boogerman or low-rent JRPG of that era. I mean, Final Fantasy VII was a big game for its day and definitely AAA-level for that time. Sonic Adventure was arguably Dreamcast's first AAA-level game due to production values and the brand name of the IP, PS2 had some at launch too such as Tekken Tag Tournament.

Those games wouldn't be considered AAA by today's definition but for their generation they were AAA IMO.

I mean if we're talking about the 'peak' point where game mechanics haven't meaningfully changed since - it was hit sometime in 360/PS3 era.
Though it's debatable that we lost a lot of interesting concepts from the 90ies in transition, and some have only started to come back in second half of last decade.

Oh yeah, definitely agreed with the second part there; playing some of those games these days it's easy to see the breadth in creativity of various game mechanics and designs, particularly from more obscure/niche titles, that did fade away or kept scaling down from AAA to mid-tier before fading from that bracket of the industry altogether.

Would also say that as game budgets kept increasing game design & mechanics in the AAA space just kept homogenizing, kept getting safer. That's probably why games like Demon's Souls felt so refreshing (tho that style of game didn't really take off until Dark Souls).

Because PS5 was released recently and we had a global pandemic that delayed many important games. In any case, PS5 runs PS4 games too (and PS4 is still alive) and PS4 has better games than these ones for these genres.

Some of those are very subjective though to be fair. For example I doubt anyone is going to claim GT3 is still better than GT6 or the upcoming GT7. But there's only one Ico, and Silent Hill 2 is still held as the gold standard for psychological survival-horror even to this day by a lot of people.

While arguably surpassed, I think there's a decent group of people who'd say MGS2 is similarly the best in its series, from a story POV anyway.

The Dreamcast's failure was a result of 32X and Saturn failing and the almost notorious fight between SOA and SOJ. A lack of games was never the issue with the Dreamcast. And in someway that also includes the Saturn, which had a good library, although they failed to provide sequels to most genesis classics, most importantly Sonic.

I do agree that Dreamcast's issues were mainly tied to 32X/Saturn failures in the West plus SOA/SOJ trying to tear each other's throats out. But it was also due to lack of funds; they couldn't justify supporting the hardware any longer with what remaining funds they had, I think things like the failed Sega/Bandai merger also impacted this.

You're also right that in the case of the Saturn they failed to deliver a lot of obvious sequels. No Eternal Champions sequel. No Streets of Rage sequel. No Pulseman sequel (maybe not a huge deal, but I'd of loved one personally), etc. That said I do think both systems needed more in specific key genres to have done better in the market. But maybe even more than that, I think for the 1P arcade ports they really needed to prioritize having more content in the home versions than they typically ended up doing.

Namco were great at this, I think Sega should've followed their lead on it. They did very occasionally, but not consistently.

Bad to hear that you got burned out and wasted money, but I don't see how the games were the issue here, especially for the Dreamcast you had a great selection to choose from. It's a shame the system only lasted for 2 years, but at least it were 2 years full of great games.

 

[Bragr]

Dreamcast the console was great, but there were like 3 good games on it. It's the most over-hyped piece of product in the video game industry's history.

 

[Sosokrates]

 

[Fafalada]

I meant by the standards of that time; every gen from NES onward has had its AAA-type/level of game IMO. You know, the big-budgeted games that usually had top-of-the-line production values for their era.

Budget differentiation was much more subdued in that era - we weren't talking things like going from 10 devs to 100 (not until 00s came about), or marketing budgets that would compete in scale with cinematic releases.
There were a few choice exceptions to above (the likes of FFVIII or WCIII) - that also usually carried a substantial financial risk to the publisher and developer alike. That's where I'd trace back the 'dawn of AAA' - though the term actually wasn't used for games until PS2 was on the market.

SMB3, Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger etc. You can easily tell more money, budget, etc. went into those compared to, say, a Boogerman or low-rent JRPG of that era.

I'd argue average (not bargain-bin) platformers and RPGs of the era didn't look that different (saying nothing about how they played - that's a different story), but I'm including the entire market here, not just console(s). Barrier of entry was still low enough for fairly small budgets to make big things possible (eg. Doom was developed on a pretty shoestring budget and timeline compared to some more mainstream releases of the era).

I mean, Final Fantasy VII was a big game for its day and definitely AAA-level for that time. Sonic Adventure was arguably Dreamcast's first AAA-level game due to production values and the brand name of the IP, PS2 had some at launch too such as Tekken Tag Tournament.

FF sure. SA/TTT were relatively small scoped in comparison - but true, a lot of what they did was also defining certain 'AAA' production value standards for decades to come, so it's fair enough to count them. I wanted to argue MGS2 was the first true AAA on PS2 but then FFX released before it
Still - because I'm stirring controversy - I'd argue for instance GTA wasn't actually AAA until San Andreas (3 was actually relatively low-budget affair and Vice City occupied this weird middle ground when T2 was still not sure if they just had a fluke with III or they can go all in(they did with SA).

 

[Dream-Knife]

Yeah we were all impressed with the dreamcast when it came out. Unfortunately few of us bought it because the library didn't appeal to us. I really liked the VMU concept.

 

[cireza]

but there were like 3 good games on it

Jet Set Radio
Phantasy Star Online
Soul Calibur
Ikaruga

I stopped at 4.

 

[sinnergy]

I liked Red Dog, it was a Rocksteady game

 

[EruditeHobo]

Maybe it's my nostalgia glasses talking again but I'm just thinking of that brief period from 1999 to 2001 or so.

It is.

I'd argue we're in much more of a peak now: PC, retro gaming, mobile gaming, VR gaming, consoles, online/multiplayer gaming, the cloud, subscriptions... these are at an all time high, in terms of variety & access.

I loved my DC, I'm glad I was there for the end of PSX and transition to DC/PS2, it was a very good time. But we have it good now, too.

 

[UnNamed]

Dreamcast was Sega at it's best, from 1997 (Model3/Scud Race) to 2002 (Shenmue2/F355), probably the best Sega ever.
Also, Dreamcast have shown a console can live without any major japanese developer. Now it's a common thing, but back in the day a console without a japanese support was dead-on-arrival.
Was also the real first console with online games. PS2 had probably less online games than the Dreamcast.

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

Dreamcast the console was great, but there were like 3 good games on it. It's the most over-hyped piece of product in the video game industry's history.

what? at launch you had already had Soul Calibur, Sonic Adventure and House of the Dead 2, along side Power Stone, the ultimate home port of Hydro Thunder and 2K Sports. What?

 

[SF Kosmo]

Race to the bottom and lose all the money. Sega's least successful console.

What I mean by fastest selling is that, at the time Sega canned it, it had sold more than any other Sega console in that time frame.

Consoles don't make money in their first two years, that's not how the business works. Sega just couldn't really afford to stay in. The Saturn was the system that killed Sega, not the Dreamcast.

 

[synchronicity]

The industry as a whole was less cynical and $-grabby. Games were still experimental and risk-taking among the bigger publishers/devs. It was certainly a *different* time. But there are way more games now, and indies still push the envelope in new ways. I dunno, all things change - some for the better some for the worse. C'est la vie.

 

[01011001]

But there are way more games now, and indies still push the envelope in new ways.

if these new ways involve randomized levels and rogue-lite elements you would be right.

sadly IMO even the Indy scene is becoming less and less imaginative. you either get really bad low budget titles, the occasional really surprisingly good one... or the 10,000th rogue-lite with procedurally generated levels

and the good ones are usually take very clear "inspiration" from retro games. so innovation is also not really a thing anymore usually

 

[01011001]

What I mean by fastest selling is that, at the time Sega canned it, it had sold more than any other Sega console in that time frame.

Consoles don't make money in their first two years, that's not how the business works. Sega just couldn't really afford to stay in. The Saturn was the system that killed Sega, not the Dreamcast.

this is what killed Sega

 

[Mr Hyde]

Dreamcast the console was great, but there were like 3 good games on it. It's the most over-hyped piece of product in the video game industry's history.

Posts like these should automatically earn a 2-year ban.

 

[Chiggs]

'95-'05 was like a dream. You could definitely say this was a peak. The creativity and awesome releases were nonstop.

 

[synchronicity]

if these new ways involve randomized levels and rogue-lite elements you would be right.

sadly IMO even the Indy scene is becoming less and less imaginative. you either get really bad low budget titles, the occasional really surprisingly good one... or the 10,000th rogue-lite with procedurally generated levels

and the good ones are usually take very clear "inspiration" from retro games. so innovation is also not really a thing anymore usually

I can understand that point of view. I suppose when any art-form reaches a certain level of saturation, the "formulas" and methods for success become sort of ingrained. I mean we see it in film, music and literature. Not everyone is capable of shattering the molds that have been set, and many who do find themselves without an audience, quality of the work be damned. There are still playful and creative spirits in the gaming space though, imho. They're just, naturally, less commonplace and/or visible. And many who do venture outside the boundaries of convention are often received by any who find their work with a, "What the hell is this crap!" sort of tone.

 

[LavosBit]

That year it had before the PS2 arrived certainly was magical. Soul Calibur was one of those “holy crap” titles that you only get to experience a few times in your gaming life.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

I remember playing a lot of Marvel vs Capcom 2, to me the true killer app for the system. The system has a great library, specially considering how quickly it was discontinued.
With that said, I think people have the tendency to exaggerate when talk about it.

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

this is what killed Sega

played a role, but wasn't the cause.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

I wanna be an old fuck day, and make a post how PS Vita was the pinnacle of gaming.

 

[ReBurn]

The sixth generation was the last generation where developers actually took risks.

The 5th generation was full of crazy new ideas because 3d polygons opened the door to new ideas. 6th gen saw bigger worlds and bolder takes where genres came into their own. Development became more expensive in the PS360 so games became more formulaic and less risky. Not much has really changed since. It's not that games are bad now. There are lots of great, fun games. It's just that so many of them share the same bones. The stories and visuals are different, but the same mechanics are running underneath.

 

[Insane Metal]

Dreamcast the console was great, but there were like 3 good games on it. It's the most over-hyped piece of product in the video game industry's history.

In my 17 years here this is surely one of the wrongest opinions I've read.

 

[lachesis]

I think of DC as a perfect dessert and a wonderful appetizer of era that was to follow... so yes.

1998.
Not only it had wonderful games like Ocarina of Time and other masterpieces like Resident Evil 2, Metal Gear Solid, Star Craft, Half Life etc...
and it topped with DC launch in Japan in November (I was there at the launch!)

I don't think I was ever more excited about video games in my life like 1998.
It indeed was very special time.

 

[Craig of War]

No my peak is the WII PS360 days

 

[Happosai]

Dreamcast had a total of 32 games with online multiplayer, with some heavy hitters like Phantasy Star Online, the 2K1 and 2K2 sports games, Bomberman Online, Capcom vs SNK 2, Daytona USA 2001, Quake III Arena, Unreal Tournament, San Francisco Rush 2049 and Starlancer.

A bunch of other games had online functionality, like Sega GT, Metropolis Street Racer, Shenmue and a few others.

The Dreamcast was region locked, but after a short time, it was as simple as burning a boot disc, put disc in Dreamcast, take out boot disc and put in the PAL or NTSC-J game of your choice and enjoy.

BTW, I'm with the one poster who said '95-'05 was the best time to be a gamer. For me anyways, I had so many good times gaming on my PC, Saturn, NGPC, Dreamcast, GBA and Xbox. The online communities for MMORPGs, simulations, strategy/real-time war games and FPSs were amazing. Games had awesome quality of life improvements, yet weren't dumbed down yet for the lowest common denominator. Awesome online games without all the MTX bullshit. PC, consoles, the arcades and handhelds were all on fire back then.

That's right! I guess my memory of it being a revolutionary in online gaming was because I never ran my LAN to it. You're sure it was default region locked in North America? I know Saturn was and that's why I had my Action Replay plus cart. My grey model died awhile back and I bought the Sports edition to have it in black.

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

Namco were great at this, I think Sega should've followed their lead on it. They did very occasionally, but not consistently.

yeah, Sega often gave you the barebones arcade experience. Some of their games had more like Crazy Taxi had Crazy X, I think that was new, but standards were a little different back then. Like no way would there be a full priced racing game with only 3 tracks like with Sega Rally and Ridge Racer. I think gameplay wise Sega Rally holds up better.

 

[SecretAgentHam]

No my peak is the WII PS360 days

you missed a golden opportunity to type "PSWii60"

 

[Havoc2049]

That's right! I guess my memory of it being a revolutionary in online gaming was because I never ran my LAN to it. You're sure it was default region locked in North America? I know Saturn was and that's why I had my Action Replay plus cart. My grey model died awhile back and I bought the Sports edition to have it in black.

I'm from North America. Unless you had a modded DC, you needed something like a Utopia boot disk to play commercial games outside of the region.

 

[Pagusas]

gosh now i’m feeling really nostalgic for the late 90’s/early 00’s. Best gaming period easily, a true golden age.