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Did the Nintendo 64 have a single 2D Sprite based game?
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spazchicken
Member
I agree with you but the creation of the sprites is the only difference between the two. Did someone draw them or were they rendered in a computer. What the N64 does with those sprites and how it processes them is no different if they were pre-rendered, a series of pictures or hand drawn.
Didn't Nintendo and Sony pressured developers not to make 2D games as they were trying to push 3D?
Tavernacle12
Member
Sony definitely did, I remember hearing about it concerning the Mega Man X games and Symphony of the Night. Not sure about Nintendo.
In the US sure, specially early on. A few PS1 2D games weren't localized because Sony didn't want people to think of PS1 as a less capable console.
yes
there was a 2D softban all the way into ps2 and psp for Sony. According to the devs the only way Earthworm Jim could get on the PSP was to be converted into polygonal 2.5 D
MrCunningham
Member
The characters in Paper Mario are sprites textured onto flat polygons.
Sony's American branch did make a few exceptions for heavy hitters like Mortal Kombat 3 and Street Fighter Alpha, but they were mostly pushing developers to make games in 3D because they didn't want to associate their system with the 16bit generation. Nintendo's first parties were almost entirely 3D with the exception of a couple token games. Sega of Japan wanted to push 2D with the Saturn, but even Sega of America wasn't really invested in that idea as they wanted to stay competitive with Sony and Nintendo. This is why Sega of America was pushing for a 3D Sonic game with Sonic Extreme.
entremet
Member
Growing pains.
The magazines all pushed 3D. GameFan was the only voice in the 2d desert wilderness.
Thank God we are passed those dark times.
Diablohead
Member
Bangai-O for n64 was all 2D I think, though it was a slightly different game compared to the Dreamcast version.
Graphics Horse
Member
yeah it doesn't matter how they were created, sprites are essentially just 2D bitmap objects.
Traditionally these would use dedicated sprite hardware but N64 just has an optimised way of drawing textured quads instead. You could argue that these aren't true sprites but that would mean we can't use the word for anything these days.
For the DS, which has a traditional sprite hardware as well as polygon based sprites, Nintendo refer to them as Hardware Sprites and Software Sprites respectively.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Well in both cases they're still rendered on a computer
The different is one technique is using polygons and the other isn't. Also while it wasn't as big an issue w/ 5th gen systems using pre-rendered sprites on 16-bit systems while attempting to go for the timeless look of games like Yoshi's Island, Ristar, Sonic, Metroid etc. was impossible. Not just b/c 3D tech was infeasible on larger levels for consoles of that time, but b/c there weren't techniques around to provide a pipeline for it. It's why so many prerendered 3D-2D games of that era have aged badly visually.Also there are some who would still consider the difference between pixel-accurate 2D art and prerendered 3D models as 2D sprites significant at the time, and even today. The former generally has to work with a much smaller color palette, which is why it needs to be more pixel-accurate in the first place.
I'm not sure how true this is anymore. I mean, there was a backlash against 2D games in America, and probably in most parts of Europe as well, but there was never such a backlash in Japan, or has ever been, either.
TBH it seems it was mainly the media at the time that created that perception (and companies like Sony outright forbidding certain 2D games coming out on their platform, in the early years), and it somewhat seeped into consumer mentality, but to what degree is likely not as severe as many feel. After all, the Alpha games, Pokemon games, SOTN and a few other 2D games did pretty well in the West iirc.
Yep. I think there's a lot of us in this thread on the same page on this issue. W/ consumers, 2D wasn't really seen as all that bad, by and large, given what 2D games came out at the time mostly did pretty well (if not phenomenal). W/ the console holders (particularly their Western divisions) and Western media outlet OTOH, it was seen as taboo and they mostly all tried pushing that message.
Except, of course, GameFan. And a few others (Maximum seemed pretty chill on 2D games tho they didn't last for long).
DonMigs85
Member
Bust A Move 2: Arcade Edition and whatever other Puzzle Bobble games that came out on it. Doom and Hexen too I guess
MrCunningham
Member
I think people were getting bored with 2D games in most western territories and were looking for the next big thing. Which is understandable, given that there was like tree console generations full of 2D games. That's why the PS1/ N64 generation looked so exciting, even though most of the games that came out of that generation looked ugly as sin.
MegaSackman
Member
I think that Sony E3 2015 was more than fans reacting, it was people that never played the legacy games and probably won't play the future games that were shocked because they know what those games mean for people, several times those games were talked among the press and rumors of them finally making it were debunked lots of times. So it was shocking for everyone even if they're not interested.
With Nintendo is different because their games are always their games and only fans will react to them, people outside Nintendo knows that Metroid is always there and F-Zero or any of their franchises even when is not true. People know that those games are a possibility, it would be great but I don't think It'll break the internet. In fact I don't think anyone can repeat the same shock for a good while.
Unless Nintendo shows Zelda + Red Dead Redemption 2 + Half Life 3. Then you have a megaton conference.
With Nintendo is different because their games are always their games and only fans will react to them, people outside Nintendo knows that Metroid is always there and F-Zero or any of their franchises even when is not true. People know that those games are a possibility, it would be great but I don't think It'll break the internet. In fact I don't think anyone can repeat the same shock for a good while.
Unless Nintendo shows Zelda + Red Dead Redemption 2 + Half Life 3. Then you have a megaton conference.
Leafhopper
Banned
A bunch. Only a few by Nintendo themselves though.
I am Christina Aguilera
Member
Mario Kart 64
Yes, I know what you meant
Yes, the racers were sprites
Mario Kart 64 used sprites to fake everything that wasn't the ground.
entremet
Member
I remember seeing this in Nintendo Power and being so excited about it. Never came over, though
Seems like it got a fan translation based on this pic and video link. Nice.
Deadpool_X
Banned
Weren't the characters in Mario Kart 64 2d sprites moving in a 3d world? The same with Doom 64, Hexen 64, and Duke Nukem 64, right?
- Clay Fighter 63 1/2
- Killer Instinct Gold (maybe?)
- Mischief Makers
- Yoshi's Story
No absolutely not. I believe only SNES and GBA had sprite based characters.
edit: actually I can't remember how the N64 one looked. maybe it used sprite karts. I forget.
Just SCEA , Sony Japan had no problem with 2D games on PS1 and they ended up getting a lot more.
Pretty sure those are indeed sprites. Sprites doesn't implicity mean 'handdrawn', if that's what you're driving at; Donkey Kong Country used sprites made from prerendered 3D models as well.
(That said, there's certainly some polygonal work going on for some of the terrain, but not all of it; I'd say no more than would be found in, say, Yoshi's Island), certain setpieces aside)
MrCunningham
Member
On a similar note, Mario 64 uses an awful lot of sprites is some very sneaky ways, in particular as a fast way of rendering balls.
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
Mischief Makers was a pure treasure.
Graphics Horse
Member
Yep. And on PS1 Crash Team Racing draws all the wheels as sprites, to great effect.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Ogre Battle 64
Though the overworld and some spells were 3d.
Though the overworld and some spells were 3d.
entremet
Member
The huge rolling balls in the first painting were sprites. Lots of little tricks.
The Spoony Hou
Member
What is the OPs criteria? Fully 2D games, or games with sprites?
Yeah! I was going to post a pic if no one did.
Yeah! I was going to post a pic if no one did.
I remember being pissed off because we were suffering though launch droughts and FF7 betrayaltons, but nobody translated this launch window game from Enix because it was "ugly".
N64 deserved to fail.
2D Sprite based kind of rules out 3D games that happen to have sprites, like Mario Kart, but can include 2D games that happen to have some 3D effects. Castlevania: SotN's save spaces come to mind, but I suppose due to the PS1's lack of proper 2D support, the whole game's technically just textured polygons.
Gunstar Ikari
Unconfirmed Member
Super Robot Wars 64 is mostly 2D sprites, with 3D backgrounds during battle cutscenes.
But yeah, most of the pure 2D games were puzzle games. Tetris, Puyo, Pokemon Puzzle League, Taisen Puzzle-Dama, Bust-a-Move, etc.
Baku Bomberman -> Bomberman 64
Baku Bomberman 2 -> Bomberman 64: The Second Attack
Bomberman Hero -> Bomberman Hero
Bomberman 64 -> Never released
But yeah, most of the pure 2D games were puzzle games. Tetris, Puyo, Pokemon Puzzle League, Taisen Puzzle-Dama, Bust-a-Move, etc.
Baku Bomberman -> Bomberman 64
Baku Bomberman 2 -> Bomberman 64: The Second Attack
Bomberman Hero -> Bomberman Hero
Bomberman 64 -> Never released
It seems you've never come across a PS+ thread if you're implying it's not like this anymore...
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
I want that
The Spoony Hou
Member
Oh, you don't have to tell me. I was just asking what the OP wants. Maybe Yoshi's Story would fit his criteria, and I think that one is rendered in 3D, like SotN.
A sprite is simply a bitmap (animated or not) rendered onto a scene. The method of rendering is not part of that definition, so whether rendering was done via bit block transfers or polygon rasterization is irrelevant. Furthermore, modern 2D games (pixel perfect or not) have to be rendered using triangles in order to take advantage of hardware acceleration, yet we have no problem calling them sprite-based.Well in both cases they're still rendered on a computer
Kind of amazing that they went to that level of detail for characters in such an early 3D game. Plenty of games these days don't even render balls at all.
Graphics Horse
Member
OuterLimits
Gold Member
This reminds me that I bought Ogre Battle 64 on the Wii store and haven't played it yet.
Jon Carter
Member
Big publishers have mostly not gone back to 2D. There's Rayman Origins and Legends, but other than that isn't it only indie devs? Plus Legends was a commercial disappointment.
Maybe if it had come out when and on the platform it was supposed to...
Entered the thread to say this. And Mischief Makers. WPJ2 has some great spritework.
Isn't that technically how ALL 2D sprite games on PSX and N64 worked? The Saturn was the only one of the 32/64 bit consoles that was actually capable of handling 2D sprites in the traditional way. The PSX and N64 had to store them as flat textured polygons.
What game is this?
Puyo Puyo SUN, the third game of the Puyo Puyo series. They're versus puzzle games; the first game had come over here in altered forms as Dr Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine or as Kirby's Avalanche depending on the system. They're spinoffs of an obscure RPG series of all things.