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Did the Xbox One create a gaming schism?

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Cyclops was wrong.
This thread is now about how Cyclops was right.

Seriously, it's not much of a schism. Most agree the Xbox One is shit. Others, who don't care about its issues think its fine.

While I'm not in the latter group cause fuck Microsoft, I don't know if I agree with the narrative of anyone who does decide to buy an Xbone being a corporate drone or whatever. Everything has a value to someone.
 
Age of Empires :(

DYYUH2f.jpg


:(

At least we got AoE2 HD.
 
so basically OP, MS knows what's best for us but we're too stupid to understand?

Basically MS gives you a digital copy of the game when you insert the disc in the Xbox (that's why you don't need the disc anymore after that). They're creating a system so you can resell your copy but of course you don't own it anymore afterwards. In their digital rights management, you can share your copy with people hundred miles away.

It's the next step, going forward from the physical model. It's only a bit of plastic that includes the data, there are no booklets in game boxes anymore so any game is like "new".
 
Making things more expensive and restrictive isnt usually something you do to attract customers. You would think Microsoft would understand that.
 
Yes.

I would be lying if I said I didn't think less of the people who support the Xbox One with no more consideration then it has games they like. Knowing that my rights as a consumer are in the hands of people who only care about their next gaming fix has always been one of my frustrations about this hobby.

Agreed. I see a lot of "well it doesn't affect me so I don't care" posts. Not a good frame of mind to be in, imo.
 
Do we know how that really works, though?
It originally sounded like 10 family members, which seemed to mean 10 people living in the same household (and therefore registered on the same console).

I highly doubt you will be able to share a game library between 10 people in 10 different households. That would just create a situation where devs/pubs would lose even more money than the "used game" bogey monster.

Specifically mentioned that they don't have to be family and can be friends, and that they don't have to live in the same house and live "3000 miles away".
 
Let's not pretend that digital = no used sales. Yes, that is the case right now for the biggest platforms, but there are early signs of change, especially in Europe with the Oracle precedent that was set last year.

This narrative of "if you're against used you're backwards" is very misleading.
 
It's already clear that the Xbox One has a lot of backing and a lot of great titles already in development for it. If the Xbox One did turn out to be like the Saturn that makes me want it even more. I think people are pissed about the DRM thing to the point where even if they would like an exclusive game they disregard everything Xbox related. Personally I love the look of the system and the controller and Killer Instinct and Crimson Dragon (this one would be like the Saturn) look fantastic to me. I have never really liked the feel of Sony controllers, I didn't get a 360 until 2 weeks ago and instantly I loved the 360 controller, felt way more solid and comfortable in my hands.

As invasive as the DRM stuff is, I have seen people hate on systems from the start just to buy them later on for the games. Like with Wii I heard lots of people early on saying "I don't want to buy a machine where I have to wave around a controller to play", yet when games like Super Smash Bros Brawl and New Super Mario Bros came out everyone bought it. People said with DS "I don't want to pay for a second screen and a touch screen, that's crap", yet cause of great games people bought it. Now this DRM is to consumers a worse value than paying for features on a system they don't want, but I think they will sell a lot of these if they have great games.

I love Diablo III yet it is invasive to the point of always being connected online. However I honestly don't care cause it is a great game. I brought this up in another Xbox One thread but if people say "I'm not supporting it for consumer rights" they are backwards because they care more about consumer rights than Chinese sweatshop labor, African wars for electronics materials, and Environmental Destruction. All this other stuff is way bigger of an issue in the industry than your right to sell a video game to Gamestop.
 
Let's not pretend that digital = no used sales. Yes, that is the case right now for the biggest platforms, but there are early signs of change, especially in Europe with the Oracle precedent that was set last year.

This narrative of "if you're against used you're backwards" is very misleading.

Everybody knows you're only backwards if you support backwards compatibility. :p
 
it's just stockholm syndrome. people can't fathom not buying a product (a shitty one at that) or turning their back on an irrational attachment to a corporation that owes them absolutely nothing.

Nailed it.

The very thought that people are contriving some kind of narrative in their mind that all the anger and frustration about MS's policies comes down to people being "unable to cope" is moronic, and seemingly willfully ignorant. MS showed people a future they didn't want, a future that is not inevitable in the form MS presents it, and they continue to pursue the path despite protest. There's no need to "cope" with something if it's a choice. Choosing to "cope" with a shitty future isn't some kind of virtue.
 
why? it won't affect you if you don't buy it either.

It will affect me in the long term. We saw it recently how Sony introduced its own paywall. It resulted from the success Microsoft had with its online play subscription. People paid for it and Microsoft got away with it. Sony saw how people are willing to pay for online, so they followed.
And if the Xbox One is going to be even remotely successful with its bullshit policies, I can bet my account on it that Sony will follow on this too.
 
Really? Because this model looks pretty fucking awesome, especially in relation to PS4's:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=588871

It's not that much of a step up from Sony's current game sharing feature, which I can see where Sony can easily expand upon without doing the limitations that Microsoft is doing.

Basically MS gives you a digital copy of the game when you insert the disc in the Xbox (that's why you don't need the disc anymore after that). They're creating a system so you can resell your copy but of course you don't own it anymore afterwards. In their digital rights management, you can share your copy with people hundred miles away.

It's the next step, going forward from the physical model. It's only a bit of plastic that includes the data, there are no booklets in game boxes anymore so any game is like "new".

The next step is buying a digital copy of the game from the respective online stores instead of buying a physical disc which has been the case for music and movies, sharing digital content is a positive step up I agree, but physical discs shouldn't really be brute forced into the model this way if digital content is going to take over naturally anyway.
 
Specifically mentioned that they don't have to be family and can be friends, and that they don't have to live in the same house and live "3000 miles away".

Yeah but in the actual website info, it says:

Your friends and family, your guests and acquaintances get unlimited access to all of your games. Anyone can play your games on your console--regardless of whether you are logged in or their relationship to you.

With Xbox One you can game offline for up to 24 hours on your primary console, or one hour if you are logged on to a separate console accessing your library.

So you'd still have to register your friends on your main console, and they'd be logged in to that account on their system as if they were a "guest" in order to access your library of games (and have a 1 hour limit before it needs to verify the account).

Furthermore, if sharing one gaming library between friends is so easy, why this clause:

Give your games to friends: Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.

I'm sure there will be groups of people who game the system, but doing that will only ensure the Xbox One and its games fail in the market.
 
It will affect me in the long term. We saw it recently how Sony introduced its own paywall. It resulted from the success Microsoft had with its online play subscription. People paid for it and Microsoft got away with it. Sony saw how people are willing to pay for online, so they followed.
And if the Xbox One is going to be even remotely successful with its bullshit policies, I can bet my account on it that Sony will follow on this too.

MS Multiplayer > Sony Multiplayer.

Maybe sony will have a more robust multiplayer connection with a cost of under $5 a month.
Is that really such a bad thing?
 
As someone who primarily games on the 360 and has been playing Xbox since the original Splinter Cell, I pretty much avoided MS all weekend. Their booth had 3 playable Xbox One games: Ryse, Loco Cycle and Forza 5.

I walked right up and played Ryse. Combat was actually decent.
 
The policies and aims of the Xbox One have certainly caused intense feelings on both sides.

However, simplifying the outrage at it to being "unable to cope" with a digital world is misleading and outright ill-informed.

Tens of millions of people have been "coping" with gaming in a FULLY digital world on Steam, and several hundreds of millions have done so to similar effect on iOS and other mobile phone platforms. These digital distribution models have worked because they offer convenience to consumers, an open submission platform that lets great ideas reach the mass market without the interference of a publisher, and flexible store policies (and competition from other vendors and platforms on PC) that lead to flexible and fair prices.

Microsoft's approach on the Xbox One fails on every front here when compared to other digital game distribution approaches.

There is nothing convenient about requiring a connection to the internet and having a bulky camera connected to the console in order for anything to work. There is nothing convenient about having media apps and F2P games locked behind a $60/year paywall when those things are free everywhere else. There is nothing convenient about having to reference an arcane set of policy guidelines to figure out how digital libraries work or how to sell a physical item you purchased. On Steam and iOS, I can use purchased apps and games while offline and with no timed killswitch on such content. There is no inherent need for anything digitally purchased to be required to be connected to the internet in order to function.

iOS is hugely innovative because nearly anyone with a neat idea for an app can get that onto the App Store. This not only creates new innovations routinely, it intensifies competition among existing apps of any kind. And while Steam (and other PC distribution services) are more curated and are tougher to get onto, most of them still let people sell games without having to sign with an established publisher, which frees the developer from the whims of their funders and gets more money from each sale back to the developer. Microsoft still only allows a certain number of titles to be released each week from established publishers, and Microsoft is free to accept or deny any title if MS feels that there are too many of that kind of game or that it doesn't strictly adhere to the restrictive rules of their store, which has happened plenty of times on the 360.

With pricing on iOS and Steam, individuals can change prices and add content at any time for no charge to meet market conditions, which has led to extremely affordable apps for all. On PC, there is not only competition between many digital games services such as Steam, Origin, and GOG, there are multiple vendors selling keys for games on each of those services. This leads to quick market reactions to demand and intense price competition among publishers as well as among distributors. Microsoft's approach gives them no direct competition to lower prices on their store, and big publishers currently have little control over pricing of their goods. Microsoft currently dictates the prices of all XBLA games and charges exorbitant fees for any publisher to patch their game. And Microsoft says they will stick with this policy for the Xbox One as well.

The true distinction here isn't about physical versus digital. It's about how the digital market is approached and set up. And when just comparing digital markets, Microsoft seems to be actively ignoring the lessons to be learned from successful digital sales approaches.

..But even with how bone-headed their approach is to a digital future, the bigger issue is how they are imposing all of the disadvantages of the digital model on physical goods without providing any of the advantages that physical goods traditionally have had.

Even with the option to buy full games digitally on 360, PS3, and Wii U, most people prefer to buy physical copies for many reasons. You don't have to download a full game to a HDD, you (usually) don't have to install the game, you can easily bring it with you to a friend's house to play or lend, and the customer can derive extra value from a physical copy by trading or selling it once they are done. And the prices are equal at best and usually cheaper for physical copies than digital a while after launch. Also, physical media is the only option for the 100 million Americans and the billions around the world without broadband.

Consumers give up more than they gain by purchasing digital, which is why the only digital services that have seen widespread success have done so by having lower prices to compensate for the lost value in a digital purchase.

Current Xbox One physical games policies remove most of the advantages of a physical copy of a game while not having any reduction in price to compensate for the value lost. This plan sees the issue entirely backwards. Also, by lowering the utility of the disc with their imposed restrictions without altering the price, an equivalently priced PS4 version of a multiplatform game (without any massive exclusive content arrangements for Xbox) will always be more valuable and contain more utility for the purchaser because they can freely lend or trade their copy away and use it without an internet connection.

The entirety of the Xbox One's policies may be forward-looking, but they definitely are backwards-thinking.
 
The policies and aims of the Xbox One have certainly caused intense feelings on both sides.

However, simplifying the outrage at it to being "unable to cope" with a digital world is misleading and outright ill-informed.

Tens of millions of people have been "coping" with gaming in a FULLY digital world on Steam, and several hundreds of millions have done so to similar effect on iOS and other mobile phone platforms. These digital distribution models have worked because they offer convenience to consumers, an open submission platform that lets great ideas reach the mass market without the interference of a publisher, and flexible store policies (and competition from other vendors and platforms on PC) that lead to flexible and fair prices.

Microsoft's approach on the Xbox One fails on every front here when compared to other digital game distribution approaches.

There is nothing convenient about requiring a connection to the internet and having a bulky camera connected to the console in order for anything to work. There is nothing convenient about having media apps and F2P games locked behind a $60/year paywall when those things are free everywhere else. There is nothing convenient about having to reference an arcane set of policy guidelines to figure out how digital libraries work or how to sell a physical item you purchased. On Steam and iOS, I can use purchased apps and games while offline and with no timed killswitch on such content. There is no inherent need for anything digitally purchased to be required to be connected to the internet in order to function.

iOS is hugely innovative because nearly anyone with a neat idea for an app can get that onto the App Store. This not only creates new innovations routinely, it intensifies competition among existing apps of any kind. And while Steam (and other PC distribution services) are more curated and are tougher to get onto, most of them still let people sell games without having to sign with an established publisher, which frees the developer from the whims of their funders and gets more money from each sale back to the developer. Microsoft still only allows a certain number of titles to be released each week from established publishers, and Microsoft is free to accept or deny any title if MS feels that there are too many of that kind of game or that it doesn't strictly adhere to the restrictive rules of their store, which has happened plenty of times on the 360.

With pricing on iOS and Steam, individuals can change prices and add content at any time for no charge to meet market conditions, which has led to extremely affordable apps for all. On PC, there is not only competition between many digital games services such as Steam, Origin, and GOG, there are multiple vendors selling keys for games on each of those services. This leads to quick market reactions to demand and intense price competition among publishers as well as among distributors. Microsoft's approach gives them no direct competition to lower prices on their store, and big publishers currently have little control over pricing of their goods. Microsoft currently dictates the prices of all XBLA games and charges exorbitant fees for any publisher to patch their game. And Microsoft says they will stick with this policy for the Xbox One as well.

The true distinction here isn't about physical versus digital. It's about how the digital market is approached and set up. And when just comparing digital markets, Microsoft seems to be actively ignoring the lessons to be learned from successful digital sales approaches.

..But even with how bone-headed their approach is to a digital future, the bigger issue is how they are imposing all of the disadvantages of the digital model on physical goods without providing any of the advantages that physical goods traditionally have had.

Even with the option to buy full games digitally on 360, PS3, and Wii U, most people prefer to buy physical copies for many reasons. You don't have to download a full game to a HDD, you (usually) don't have to install the game, you can easily bring it with you to a friend's house to play or lend, and the customer can derive extra value from a physical copy by trading or selling it once they are done. And the prices are equal at best and usually cheaper for physical copies than digital a while after launch. Also, physical media is the only option for the 100 million Americans and the billions around the world without broadband.

Consumers give up more than they gain by purchasing digital, which is why the only digital services that have seen widespread success have done so by having lower prices to compensate for the lost value in a digital purchase.

Current Xbox One physical games policies remove most of the advantages of a physical copy of a game while not having any reduction in price to compensate for the value lost. This plan sees the issue entirely backwards. Also, by lowering the utility of the disc with their imposed restrictions without altering the price, an equivalently priced PS4 version of a multiplatform game (without any massive exclusive content arrangements for Xbox) will always be more valuable and contain more utility for the purchaser because they can freely lend or trade their copy away and use it without an internet connection.

The entirety of the Xbox One's policies may be forward-looking, but they definitely are backwards-thinking.

Bravo. Seriously, very well said.
 
Lots of text

Lots of good points. However, a few rebuttals:
- Why do the PS4, WiiU, PC, etc not count as viable competitors the XBO ecosystem? I feel they are equivalent to GOG, etc, to steam.
- Price arguments are to be seen. We've seen some great deals on 360 digital games, if a near all-digital console platform takes off I think it remains to be seen if large discounts/sales can be achieved. No real precedent yet.

Good point on ps4 games being inherently cheaper than xbo games by virtue of resale (assuming they both retail for the same $). However MS has stated that you will be able to resell games, though the system is admittedly convoluted.
 
There is no "schism". Whether your loyalty is PC or Sony or Nintendo or agnostic, all the gamers except the shills are united like the Allied Nations vs. The Third Reich.
 
Gamers cope, by and large, just fine with the digital world. We've been letting DRM become a part of our experience, we've more or less embraced DLC for what it is -- a way for developers and publishers to give us "content" that has no resale value whatsoever. I think we've done it with a smile. I think we've been more progressive on that front than anyone, anywhere, who consumes any kind of media have been.

But there's a line, and MS crossed it.

We're now deciding policy. We do it implicitly when we buy hardware. If we consume the product, it's an opt-in to the policies of the hardware. If there's a schism, it's that people have different policies about what it means to be a consumer. Those of us who are rigidly against MS new console know full well that buying the thing means compliance with a policy -- one that, if we opt-in, we cannot ever opt out of.

That some people don't care, or have an unreasonable affiliation or personal obsession with MS, is just stockholm syndrome. We've been abused so much by the "digital age" that we're basically limp noodles. The PS4 vs. Xbox One age, this is one gigantic testing of the waters by publishers and manufacturers to see if we're "ready" to move into a new paradigm.

We aren't. We're willing to swallow a lot, but not the whole cum shot. And if people like Cliff B. are going to state that the industry cannot survive with a 2nd hand market and "AAA" games that cost ~60-80 million dollars, something needs to change, but it's not us. We've changed more than enough to accommodate the greed of publishers to keep engaging in our hobby. That we have a chance now to do the right thing, and make the purchase of the PS4 a stance instead of some kind of fanboy alliance -- I think it's something we owe ourselves -- to keep the industry in line. That some people can't see it happening is either relative immaturity with respect to the medium's history, or pure, blind, self-indulgence at the expense of some of the last bastions of consumer rights we have. I hate Gamestop, personally, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I'm glad that this thread was made so this post could be written.

Just completely and totally on the mark in every conceivable way, incredible. I wish you'd be tagged with a link to this post, so everyone gets the opportunity to inform themselves on the importance of this generational shift. Well done.

Really? Because this model looks pretty fucking awesome, especially in relation to PS4's:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=588871

This doesn't make sense. The PS4's "model" is anyone can share any game they want with as many people they want to. As it has been and should be. Limiting it to 10 people is nothing but a step back.
 
I'm glad that this thread was made so this post could be written.

Thanks man. For me, this has never been so much about the devaluation of games, but the devaluation of us. That's what gets me going, and it's what made my purchasing decision so easy this time around.
 
Really? Because this model looks pretty fucking awesome, especially in relation to PS4's:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=588871
You're most likely going to be able to do something like that on PS4, just as you're able to do it on PS3. It's going to have to be possible to some degree since they don't mandate periodical online check-in.

TBH, I thought this system is already kind of a hassle on PS3, even though it is far less restrictive than what it sounds to be on Xbox.
 
Will you be buying an Xbone? I ask because in your tag you explicitly say you never buy Sony stuff. You are aware the Bone has Blu-ray in it right? So will you be a man of principle and not buy the Bone?

I came out as a hypocrit a long time ago. I already have a Blu Ray player (Samsung).
 
Sorry, I've been attempting to furiously masturbate to the Xbox One for the past week and all of these haters are killing my hard on.

Truthfact.


just think of all the old vhs porn you'll be able to rediscover by watching vhs through your xbox one
 
To me I made the decision on my own. I watched the Microsoft Press, then I watched the Sony's press conference. I knew I was going to buy one system, just didnt know which one. Mainly for Battlefield 4. I was watching like a hawk and came to the conclusion that PS4 was the way to go. To many pros for PS4 and too many cons for Xbox One. I would love to get both but price + price for online is a no go for me.

If the Xbox ONE was exactly like the PS4 in terms of online, no DRM, 399, I would still have went with PS4 for the main reason that I love their exclusives more (I love killzone games over Dead rising games ) and I cannot trust Microsoft after the red rings of death. That experince was horrible. I can only imagine with the XBOX ONE being that huge that anything can go wrong in there.
 
Lots of good points. However, a few rebuttals:
- Why do the PS4, WiiU, PC, etc not count as viable competitors the XBO ecosystem? I feel they are equivalent to GOG, etc, to steam.
- Price arguments are to be seen. We've seen some great deals on 360 digital games, if a near all-digital console platform takes off I think it remains to be seen if large discounts/sales can be achieved. No real precedent yet.

Good point on ps4 games being inherently cheaper than xbo games by virtue of resale (assuming they both retail for the same $). However MS has stated that you will be able to resell games, though the system is admittedly convoluted.

On the first point... to access the PS4 or Wii U digital library, one must pay $300 to $400 for the console itself, which limits the ability to switch from one console's digital library to another. This is as opposed to me switching from Steam to say Origin which requires me to sign up for a website and download an application for the price of $0. As far as PC goes, you need top-of-the-line hardware to play AAA retail games which is more expensive than a console.

On the second point, the price drops for digital games we have been seeing in console stores have been relatively recent and we cannot be sure they will continue. Even so, both PS4 and Xbox One will each have their own digital deals, but given both price and rights issues, the PS4 is the better choice. I don't have to be online to play a digital game on that platform, and if there was a game that forced it, I wouldn't buy it even at the cheapest price. I even only play free-to-play MMOs over having a subscription for one.

The Xbox One, admittingly, would be a great digital console if not for the daily need to check in online. What works in digital is Steam and iOS, which while both require online to access their stores, don't require online to play games outside of online modes in games. This is the digital model that the PS4 uses, and the digital model the PS3 and 360 used. The problem with Xbox One is not that their digital games have DRM... Having some DRM is expected for digital games. The problem is that the DRM their digital games have is the worst kind, a required online connection, and the fact they are forcing said DRM on physical discs as well.
 
I said it quite some times, if digital only era means to exclude the retailer and give that advantage to the customer, I am all for it. $30 AAA games, I am ready.

Besides that I don't see why I would buy a $499 console, when there is a more powerful $399 one available. One that has ongoing support from quite some well respected 1st/2nd developers instead of some moneyhatted exclusives for the launch window.

Let's be real here for a second. If you think that you will get $30 AAA games when everything goes digital you are extremely wrong.

Look at Steam as an example. There are so many digital AAA games that come out at a $50-70 price point, and they are literally paying less %-wise to Valve/Steam and they aren't selling a boxed copy that has to be shipped around and put on display in a store across the world.
 
On the first point... to access the PS4 or Wii U digital library, one must pay $300 to $400 for the console itself, which limits the ability to switch from one console's digital library to another. This is as opposed to me switching from Steam to say Origin which requires me to sign up for a website and download an application for the price of $0. As far as PC goes, you need top-of-the-line hardware to play AAA retail games which is more expensive than a console.

On the second point, the price drops for digital games we have been seeing in console stores have been relatively recent and we cannot be sure they will continue. Even so, both PS4 and Xbox One will each have their own digital deals, but given both price and rights issues, the PS4 is the better choice. I don't have to be online to play a digital game on that platform, and if there was a game that forced it, I wouldn't buy it even at the cheapest price. I even only play free-to-play MMOs.

The Xbox One, admittingly, would be a great digital console if not for the daily need to check in online. What works in digital is Steam and iOS, which while both require online to access their stores, don't require online to play games outside of online modes in games. This is the digital model that the PS4 uses, and the digital model the PS3 and 360 used. The problem with Xbox One is not that their digital games have DRM... Having some DRM is expected for digital games. The problem is that the DRM their digital games have is the worst kind, a required online connection, and the fact they are forcing said DRM on physical discs as well.

Fair points. However I would argue that the consumer is still given the option of multiple ways to access the content, albiet with an initial fee. Granted they might have to do some research, but the options do exist (with their limitations and strengths on display prior to purchase).

Not sure I 100% agree with your pricing point. The trends started more recently because I believe digital sales have picked up dramatically recently, allowing for the discounts. I don't see a reason to believe this won't continue (on either platform).
 
If being completely turned off by one console's messaging, and being enamoured with another is "losing our heads", then yes we lost our heads :P

Sounds more to me like the OP can't fathom that a product reveal landed with a thud. It happens all the time. Sometimes it's not "all the products are more or less equal"... Sometimes a product reveal can completely miss the mark across a large swath of the market.
 
Nothing awesome about that. I can take my disc based PS4 games and share them with anybody and not be restricted to only 10 people.

Think of it this way, though; Your disk won't get fucked in the process of constantly swapping with all of those people, and you'll still be able to play it on a whim with no disk required.

We're talking digital downloads right now.

If being completely turned off by one console's messaging, and being enamoured with another is "losing our heads", then yes we lost our heads :P

Sounds more to me like the OP can't fathom that a product reveal landed with a thud. It happens all the time. Sometimes it's not "all the products are more or less equal"... Sometimes a product reveal can completely miss the mark across a large swath of the market.
More like the OP cannot understand the mass posts of uneducated hatred towards a console, and judgmental bullshit towards those choosing to purchase.
 
The notion that publishers will pass on the savings to the customers is hilarious. Digital copies are just as expensive as the physical copy. All those punched holes in the game cases aren't passed on to the consumers even though it only saved them a few cents. Their CEOs get paid big time for putting the company in the red with their stupid decisions.

These publishers give a rats ass about the customers. It's always about the profits.
 
Think of it this way, though; Your disk won't get fucked in the process of constantly swapping with all of those people, and you'll still be able to play it on a whim with no disk required.

We're talking digital downloads right now.

More like the OP cannot understand the mass posts of uneducated hatred towards a console, and judgmental bullshit towards those choosing to purchase.

Blu Ray discs have a hard coating.

How dare you call it "uneducated hatred"! The people that hate it know a lot about the system, that is why they hate it!
Get over it!
 
Nothing awesome about that. I can take my disc based PS4 games and share them with anybody and not be restricted to only 10 people.
It's not even about that IMO. It's that MS decides these rules through their ridiculously complex DRM system, and they can change those rules at a drop of a hat. While people are struggling to decipher the exact meaning of their wording, all that is just the present state, which they can change literally anytime. That is what really sucks about DRM systems. When there's no DRM present, rules can't be invented after the fact. When you own a disc you know what you have and that it will work no matter what circumstances. At the same time, downloadable versions of games from Sony's service can have the same or similar sharing allowances, if they chose to, just like there's on PS3. But there's no need or advantage of binding a physical product into these schemes.
 
More like the OP cannot understand the mass posts of uneducated hatred towards a console, and judgmental bullshit towards those choosing to purchase.
The idea that hatred on GAF is "uneducated" is highly laughable. I'm sure most of the people commenting on the DRM issue know what it all means. Sony's policy is more consumer friendly, and that is an easily graspable fact.

But I do agree that being judgmental towards would-be purchasers is irrational... And same goes for the "you're obviously a viral marketer!" witch hunt.
 
After being a loyal dog to Microsoft since the first Xbox (and by Xbox I really mean Halo), I ditched their asses in a heartbeat after Sony's E3 press conference. Halfway there with my PS4 pre-order money. I don't need to put much down now.

While I do appreciate The One's push to the digital future, I'm in no way a fan of it's restrictions and horrible policies. There's no way I can do that to myself, as someone who is always sharing games and selling used games all the time.
 
Think of it this way, though; Your disk won't get fucked in the process of constantly swapping with all of those people, and you'll still be able to play it on a whim with no disk required.

The Sega Saturn games I bought brand new have no scratches on them. My Street Fighter Alpha 2 disc which was played about 4 to 5 hours a day for over two years have no scratches on it, so that argument is irrelevant.

Actually 99% of my game collection which are CD/DVD/Bluray have no scratches whatsoever and I own about 500 disc based games across multiple platforms.

We're talking digital downloads right now.

So what's the point of having me buy a disc then? If a game is available on both format, I always go for the disc version. I don't own many digital download games for my PS3/360/Wii.

I've always said, if consoles go fully digital, I would stop gaming.
 
After being a loyal dog to Microsoft since the first Xbox (and by Xbox I really mean Halo), I ditched their asses in a heartbeat after Sony's E3 press conference. Halfway there with my PS4 pre-order money. I don't need to put much down now.

While I do appreciate The One's push to the digital future, I'm in no way a fan of it's restrictions and horrible policies. There's no way I can do that to myself, as someone who is always sharing games and selling used games all the time.
IMO (and I think you'll agree) DRM on physical games is not "the digital future" at all. It's an anti-consumer shackle on the physical present.

If MS wants to go download-only, by all means! If you want to be the nanny over the physical products that I purchase, pardon my French, but you can F off.
 
Nothing awesome about that. I can take my disc based PS4 games and share them with anybody and not be restricted to only 10 people.

I live in Chichester, England. How easy is it to share my games with friends in London, Oxford or even those in other countries like Scotland? The convenience is the key factor here. Yes you can post your games across country and countries, but on XB1 it's instant access.

Sure, if all the people you would share with are in the same town then you won't get much from this mechanism. But for a lot of people, and a lot of use-cases, it's going to be incredibly advantageous.
 
It's like people lost their head on GAF with the planned transition from one model to another, like they can't cope with the pace of the digital world around them.

I won't say it's the carnival of stupid here since the Xbox One has been announced but there's seriously a lot of comments and threads we would reasonably question in other times.

"The Xbox One is the new Saturn" and everyone in that thread agrees with the OP? "Good bye AAA"?

I cant speak to everyone for me, but the transition has been hard on me. I've always been an xbox guy, even on the OG system. However, I cant help but to question Microsoft's policies. Like I look at the games, and they look awesome. But those policies and those restrictions are always in the back of my mind.

In behavioral thepry its whats known as the extinction process. Bascially you get use to something because you find it rewarding. Then you keep doing it and doing it and it becomes a part of your routine, who you are, or what you do. The extinction process happens when someone takes away that rewarding behavior. Its accompined by anger, frustration, possibly even sadness. A concrete example of this is when your sigficant other breaks up with you. You depended on that person, you trusted that person, they were a rewarding part of your life. Then they break up with you and suddnely your crying into a piant of Ben and Jerry's and watching Scrubs for the 10th time.

Its not just psychological either. A lot of these feelings are rooted in sociology, espically on Gaf. For example, when there are large groups of people who beleive in certian things partciualr effects take place. Im specfically talking about Deindividuation which is this tendency for a person within a group to let go of self awareness and do just do whatever the group is doing. Agian, I've always been an Xbox guy. I've never really though about consumer rights. Yet here I am, singing praise for Sony. I feel like it is due to deindivatution.

Theres also something known as risky shift. It states that a group is more willing to take risks because the bad consequences seem like they are more spread out or not likely to happen. Now, you may read that and I say "Wouldnt that mean people are more likely to buy the XB1 because its considered to be risker?" I would say that choice is still based on the indivudai. To me, buying a Playstation is the risker move.

Finally, theres group-polarization and group-think. Group-poliraztion is this tendecny for a group to enlarge one issue and discuess it in a very big indeth way. Group-think is where a group thinks like each other so there can be harmony and social norms. This fits Gaf to a T right now. We have discussed DRM , always online, used games in a very big way. Most people on this board is expereincing group-think, we want to be accptted and to do so we have these norms we follow. Myself included.
 
Personally I see a schism into three:

  • people who've drank the koolaid - thank's for being an illustrative example OP
  • sensible people who see the clear flaws in the console and its services (here I am)
  • the usual hyperreaction folks and tinfoil stuff (normally the most amusing to read IMHO)

So yup I agree with the schism but everything else you posted about "future" and "digital" and "unable to cope" is horseshit. Most media content is going to go digital, but in fact the processes/regulation around it are embryonic, mostly a shambles with no clear long term future and the XBone is an example of making the situation worse not better.
 
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