Dictator93
Member
I havent bought the game, but I am curious about the POM. Where and how it is used... anyone got anymore pics of it? For example, whether it is self shadowing? Kinda hard to tell in the screen in the DF review.
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Digital Foundry: Dying Light full face off (PC/PS4/Xbox One)
- Thread starter Denton
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Backfoggen
Banned
Yeah, it's hard to tell indeed but the shadows are generated by your light.
The thing is, it only seem to be applied in very limited circumstances. The texture in that screen was taken from one of the indoor missions where you leave the open world map. That same texture in the regular world doesn't use POM, however, and appears completely flat in comparison.
Of course PC version wins, but stillt nice to see the devs appropriately leveraging each respective hardware.
There really is an AF issue on PS4. Not one that means that it's not possible on PS4, but clearly one which is inhibiting developers from applying it as easily as they are doing it on XBO. There's a list of games out there with PS4 games that have no AF vs. XBO games that have it, and it's a considerable sized list XBO wins hands down. It's a bit of a mystery still why that one graphical effect is missing so often.
CozMick said:
There really is an AF issue on PS4. Not one that means that it's not possible on PS4, but clearly one which is inhibiting developers from applying it as easily as they are doing it on XBO. There's a list of games out there with PS4 games that have no AF vs. XBO games that have it, and it's a considerable sized list XBO wins hands down. It's a bit of a mystery still why that one graphical effect is missing so often.
Inhibiting or "takes too much time and money so why bother"?
It clearly can be done so from my point of view its the cost/labour that's the reason.
That's strange. POM is likely one of my favourite graphical features and I'm delighted several games on current gen consoles use it. But in this case, is this issue just on consoles or does it affect PC as well? It would also be nice to see a better shot of POM in this game.
P.S. Great article, John. Most of the recent DF articles were really stale and full of shit but this one was full of tech information. Great job, man
There is no AF issue on ps4. The order 1886 is the most graphically impressive game there is and it manages it pretty damn well.
Why devs choose to not include it is anyone's guess.
The Order did not have AF in the past:
http://images.gamersyde.com/image_the_order_1886-25122-2752_0002.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1Hr5pfH.jpg
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Looks pretty solid across all 3 platforms. Good job dev team.
AngryNapkin
Banned
I would absolutely love for a developer to post on the AF issue with PS4. There has to be a reason why it's being dropped as opposed to the Xbone.
It just seems like one of the easiest things to add that has little impact and huge IQ improvements.
It just seems like one of the easiest things to add that has little impact and huge IQ improvements.
geordiemp
Member
Yeah weird omission
Looks pretty bad
Maybe its been patched but DF sill had there screen shots from the earlier analysis ?
cant see why DF would omit it
Its just a toggle in an engine, it doesnt need work time. The only reason it could be reduced or turned off is performance.
That's a pretty old screen. From the E3 build.
You're really missing the point here. If devs are taking the time and effort to put it in XB1 versions, its not a 'too much time and money' issue. There is likely a technical performance reason its use is being limited. Perhaps it costs more to do on PS4 somehow, so devs prioritize other things instead. I know you don't want to admit that the PS4 might have an issue with something, but it really seems to be the case.
The power of optimization! You do know it's a thing, right?
If that's the case, then why are so many equivalent Xbox One games having AF?
To me it says that Microsoft has somehow made the implementation of AF easier on their platform, and that it's one curious oversight that Sony has yet to rectify on theirs. You can still do it on PS4, but you have to put in extra work... in which case, as your point, why waste the time and money trying to implement it when so many people don't even know what "AF" means!
Problem with The Order is that most screens are so blurry that You cant see anything.
This one is somehow applicable, but because of blurriness and contrast i'm not sure about AF
http://images.gamersyde.com/image_the_order_1886-25924-2752_0004.jpg
travisbickle
Member
I'd take a guess that it's a simple optimisation trick, cutting off AF probably gives you back a couple of FPS across the whole game. like I'm sure there's parts in the game on XB1 that could be 1080p but cut it all down to 900p and you have enough headroom across the whole game.
I've heard first party, killzone in particular, talk about variable AF which could mean they cut back on AF in areas where framerates struggle, a big task for a multi platform dev.
What exactly are you trying to prove? That The Order 1886 has no/poor AF? There are several screens we've seen that proves otherwise.
That AF is not a easy thing to do on those consoles? Read my posts and ones i quoted?
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We will see in the final game, it could be the same case as with Killzone:SF where some surfaces has 8x, but most have 2-4x or non at all.
Newest trailer is in very bad quality, but i think there are scenes where AF is pretty absymal, still cant be sure in such an atrocious bitrate quality.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was dependent on the surface but given how preoccupied the game is with IQ, poor AF would surprise me.
I know TLOU:R is a remaster of a last gen game (still looks amazing at times regardless) but it had a good level of AF. The Uncharted 4 PSX demo also had a decent level of AF. And Killzone Shadow Fall is a launch title, so let's wait for GG's next game to see if there is better AF. Regarding multiplatforms, Shadow of Mordor and Sniper Elite 3 (could be wrong about this one) had a decent level of AF.
cyen
Member
As already stated the ps4 does have AF but it seems that there are some limitations in using it since there are many games where the xbox one (inferior gpu) does AF better.
It seems really odd since on PC is pretty much "free", the 7850+ that´s inside PS4 should not have any problem doing at least 8x AF, i hope they manage to "fix" this in future games since for me it really ruins the IQ.
It seems really odd since on PC is pretty much "free", the 7850+ that´s inside PS4 should not have any problem doing at least 8x AF, i hope they manage to "fix" this in future games since for me it really ruins the IQ.
As I said in the other thread about this, it seems some people are trying to craft a narrative around some PS4 games not having AF. I don't understand why, because many games do. There are like 3 multiplats without AF and they're all from developers who aren't AAA tier proficient (thief, dying light, strider). Several other games have better AF on PS4 than Xbone.
We just don't have enough evidence to support this "narrative", in fact we have evidence against it but whatever.
Around 4x. I wouldnt call it amazing.
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Its really hard to judge from the screenshots. Like look at this one, it seems to have decent AF, but You can be sure, because of blurriness:
http://images.gamersyde.com/image_the_order_1886-27140-2752_0010.jpg
We have to wait for better captures from different levels. AF also could be level dependent.
Collateral22
Member
PS4 for me. PC can't run it and XB1 version is worse off.
Derpcrawler
Member
Portugeezer
Member
There is no AF issue on ps4. The order 1886 is the most graphically impressive game there is and it manages it pretty damn well.
Why devs choose to not include it is anyone's guess.
That looks insane.
So with which games is it better than on xbone? Saying games are not AAA doesn't explain the lack of af when it is on the other, inferior console
Yeah, it's pretty damn annoying. And now The Order 1886 looks like the next target. Really, I wonder who is behind all this narrative? /s
I hope you're not suggesting it won't improve before release. The game is still at least 10 months away. Let's judge it again when we get the next trailer.
While I do agree with you on this, you know what kind of reaction you'll get from this thread when you post the bolded.There is no AF issue on ps4. The order 1886 is the most graphically impressive game there is and it manages it pretty damn well.
Why devs choose to not include it is anyone's guess.
Yeah, since everything is moving there it's hard to be sure since the motion blur is on everything. We'll need to wait until people can take shots standing still.
He did say decent, which is a good way to describe 4x in a console setting.
Pretty sure its a lot more than that. No one is trying to write a narrative. Just making a pretty obvious observation at this point.
It seems like to some people "decent" is the same as "amazing" just to prove their point
Given the whole AF narrative what's the real situation game wise? How many games have AF on PS4 more or less in line with other platforms and how many have it confirmed missing?
Unless there's a confirmed notable percentage if its only a fraction of the games then for whatever reason those devs didn't implement it. Clearly the console can support it as there are for sure games with it and games with it at the same settings as XB1.
If there was a real SDK or similar issue with AF on PS4 I'm sure it would have been leaked or touched on by now. The impression I get is that a small number of devs haven't implemented it either by choice of accident and they don't seem to be talking as to why they aren't when others are.
It would be interesting to see if there is any correlation with other settings - for example is it missing on 1080p titles where XB1 is sub full 1080p where perhaps the lower resolution on XB1 allows it to be squeeze in but the full 1080p on PS4 has caused devs to omit it?
It feels like we're talking like 1% of games or less but if it's a lot more I presume there's a list or record of number of titles with it vs those without to give some idea of the true percentage of occurrence.
Unless there's a confirmed notable percentage if its only a fraction of the games then for whatever reason those devs didn't implement it. Clearly the console can support it as there are for sure games with it and games with it at the same settings as XB1.
If there was a real SDK or similar issue with AF on PS4 I'm sure it would have been leaked or touched on by now. The impression I get is that a small number of devs haven't implemented it either by choice of accident and they don't seem to be talking as to why they aren't when others are.
It would be interesting to see if there is any correlation with other settings - for example is it missing on 1080p titles where XB1 is sub full 1080p where perhaps the lower resolution on XB1 allows it to be squeeze in but the full 1080p on PS4 has caused devs to omit it?
It feels like we're talking like 1% of games or less but if it's a lot more I presume there's a list or record of number of titles with it vs those without to give some idea of the true percentage of occurrence.
Developer cut different corners on different systems with different hardware specs and different APIs. If this is a real issue, at most it is due to the Sony API not having super optimized AF. With optimization over the past decade or so AF has become cheap, but originally it was a very taxing effect. Maybe the Sony API isn't that well optimized for AF, but when his was mentioned before to Sony iirc someone said there is no AF problem and it's up to developers.
Even though the PS4 is obviously stronger than the Xbone, the system is still limited. To achieve 1080p on PS4 they might be making some sacrifices, and the reason Xbone has AF on some games might be due to the fact that while they can't get 1080p due to ESRAM buffer size limitations, they can still add a few extra bells and whistles, as AFAIK AF is not a framebuffer effect (frame buffer is stored in the ESRAM and is tied to resolution) so while the ESRAM is maxed out that doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the system is.
That's all speculation though as I have no clue as how the APIs work on either system.
There are actually very few games which have better AF on X1 than PS4 and most of those games were developed on Unreal Engine 3 which does have some issues with AF on PS4 due to the console's architecture (I can't explain this but it's what I read anyway). Dying Light is the first game (someone correct me if wrong) which is not developed on UE3 to show this problem. Could be a bug or a problem on the engine itself.
Is it? When the opposite has also happened. Better AF on PS4. i.e Tomb Raider DE. There isn't a clear trend or pattern expect from poor AF on both consoles. It would seem it depends on the engine? and dev more than anything.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
There is no AF issue on ps4. The order 1886 is the most graphically impressive game there is and it manages it pretty damn well.
Why devs choose to not include it is anyone's guess.
We don't know if that is a GCI render or the real game. It has not been positively identified.
There are a total of 3 games where AF is lower and this silly idea that it struggles with it is being pushed.
There were the same handful of games with better AF on the PS3 (GTA5 for example).
Would you say the 360 had a problem with AF?
Backfoggen
Banned
Would be pretty bad CGI with the shader aliasing.
That Stone Dude
Neo Member
I think I finally realized why I have such a disconnect with parts of gaf. I've been playing the PS4 version for a couple hours and I think the game looks great and runs just fine. But other folks are seeing the same game as having 'mediocre graphics' and 'running like shit'?
Dictator93
Member
Hrmm... I guess they have it in sections specifically where they have less GPU usage. That sounds like a console style optimization applied to all platforms though. No reason to not allow PC users to toggle that on.
Hyperbole is pretty common on video game boards. Don't let that get to you.
There is no AF issue on ps4. The order 1886 is the most graphically impressive game there is and it manages it pretty damn well.
Why devs choose to not include it is anyone's guess.
THAT'S WHAT I CALL "CINEMATIC" BORDERS!
No seriously, the game is not out and we can't take their showed material as proof or facts.
I assure you that most of these people are either running the game on max and trying to show their dominance or are 60FPS elitists
Norwegian_Imposter
Member
Yeah weird omission
Looks pretty bad
I must be blind because I can't see the difference