Support NeoGAF

[adamsapple]

​

Capcom's Pragmata is brilliant! We've already talked about the PC version, we've got detailed PS5/Pro/Xbox Series X|S reviews in the pipeline, but today we're going to be discussing the Switch 2 port. Similar to Resident Evil Requiem, there's a good degree of scalability here - albeit with necessary compromises. So, how does it stack up against Series S and PS5? Here's where you'll find out.

00:00 Overview
00:30 Sponsored by Ludeo
01:48 Switch 2 vs. PS5
07:09 Switch 2 vs. Series S
09:14 Portable mode and closing thoughts

 

[adamsapple]

Switch vs PS5:

- Switch 2 takes lighting downgrades and AO is almost entirely absent compared to PS5
- Shadow maps get a cut back, lots of objects are excluded, GI quality is also pared back
- PC version's low GI settings and without RT seems closest to Switch
- SSR quality is worse than PS5 in its Performance mode
- Textures are simplified and low-res comparatively
- Strand based hair are removed in favor of card based hair on Switch
- IQ compares more favorably than we'd think.

- PS5 uses a low quality TAA
- Frame rate mode seems to be DRS between 1080p~1440p in DF testing
- Switch targets 1080p with tiny DLSS running base of 540p.
- Softer IQ but competitive thanks to DLSS

- Performance is unlocked on Switch 2, rarely close to 60 with denser areas in the 40's and sparser interiors reaching high 50's and occasional 60's
- DF would have preferred a 30 or 40 fps lock option
- PS5 in frame rate mode seems to be locked 60 in DF testing
- PS5 has a Resolution mode which also targets 60 but can dip in the 40's in combat and stress areas, it also adds RT reflections to the game

Switch vs Series S;

- Reasonably close visual match between the two
- Series S inherits many of the visual downgrades Switch 2 has
- The shadow penumbra is more noisier compared to Switch 2 even
- IQ on Series S is lacking, running 720p with TAA

- Series S runs a locked 60fps where Switch 2 struggles in the 40's, however

Switch 2 Handheld:
- 360p internal with tiny DLSS upscale, muddier and more aliased compared to docked
- Dithering and SSR are also effected by resolution drop
- Other than the above, visual settings seem to be a close match
- Performance is worse than docked, going in the 30's unlocked
- VRR doesn't seem to work properly as the frame rate goes below too often

- Tiny DLSS gives Switch 2 an edge in docked play over Series S
- Though DF think the game should target a 30 or 40fps cap

 

[Physiognomonics]

They are always trying to sell Switch 2 ports by comparing it to the blurry XSS. It's really becoming a pattern.

Why would anyone compare Switch 2 to XSS except to put that version in the best light possible? when it's in fact easily the worse version and the least playable because of instable framerate and DLSS lite artefacts in motion?

I remember during PS4 vs XB1 comparisons, they were always praising the 3-5fps advantage in some XB1 games in long paragraphs and were completely dismissing 720p vs 1080p (and later 900p vs 1080p). They just just flip the script when they need to. No consistency at all.

 

[Nvzman]

They are always trying to sell Switch 2 ports by comparing it to the blurry XSS. It's really becoming a pattern.

Why would anyone compare Switch 2 to XSS except to put that version in the best light possible? when it's in fact easily the worse version and the least playable because of framerate and DLSS lite artefacts in motion?

Because it's both impressive that a handheld is capable of providing a very close experience to a current generation console, while simultaneously making the Series S look bad that a tablet is almost on par with it (id argue RE engine TAA is dreadful at 720p so the IQ on S2 is arguably superior).

"Least playable" (I beat RE9 on S2, it's more than playable, there's maybe one section where the framerate is genuinely poor) is meaningless because, unlike the PS5 or Series X/S, I can take my Switch 2 wherever I want. Only the Steam Deck is really capable of mirroring that, but you're getting a worse experience docking that vs S2, and the starting price of that is now like $650 minimum.

Switch 2 version is very impressive and commendable for being a day and date multiplatform launch. This seems exactly like RE9, which despite all the bitching on Gaf about the DF performance analysis, was very enjoyable to me from start to finish. And this is coming from someone who pre-ordered Pragmata on my 4080/13700k DDR5 PC. Everyone is in for a good time and that's great.

 

[kevboard]

another Switch 2 game where VRR doesn't work correctly...

I am really confused what's going on there.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Because it's both impressive that a handheld is capable of providing a very close experience to a current generation console, while simultaneously making the Series S look bad that a tablet is almost on par with it (id argue RE engine TAA is dreadful at 720p so the IQ on S2 is arguably superior).

"Least playable" (I beat RE9 on S2, it's more than playable, there's maybe one section where the framerate is genuinely poor) is meaningless because, unlike the PS5 or Series X/S, I can take my Switch 2 wherever I want. Only the Steam Deck is really capable of mirroring that, but you're getting a worse experience docking that vs S2, and the starting price of that is now like $650 minimum.

Switch 2 version is very impressive and commendable for being a day and date multiplatform launch. This seems exactly like RE9, which despite all the bitching on Gaf about the DF performance analysis, was very enjoyable to me from start to finish. And this is coming from someone who pre-ordered Pragmata on my 4080/13700k DDR5 PC. Everyone is in for a good time and that's great.

It's not impressive. It's runs at 540p and 360p at ~30fps and ~40fps and stutters without VRR. it looks just OK on screenshots but in motion it's not great. I'll take XSS stable 60fps over this.

 

[adamsapple]

another Switch 2 game where VRR doesn't work correctly...

I am really confused what's going on there.

The VRR range is 40hz to 120hz iirc.

This is dropping below 40 far too frequently for it to be viable.

 

[bbw_lover87]

Because it's both impressive that a handheld is capable of providing a very close experience to a current generation console, while simultaneously making the Series S look bad that a tablet is almost on par with it (id argue RE engine TAA is dreadful at 720p so the IQ on S2 is arguably superior).

"Least playable" (I beat RE9 on S2, it's more than playable, there's maybe one section where the framerate is genuinely poor) is meaningless because, unlike the PS5 or Series X/S, I can take my Switch 2 wherever I want. Only the Steam Deck is really capable of mirroring that, but you're getting a worse experience docking that vs S2, and the starting price of that is now like $650 minimum.

Switch 2 version is very impressive and commendable for being a day and date multiplatform launch. This seems exactly like RE9, which despite all the bitching on Gaf about the DF performance analysis, was very enjoyable to me from start to finish. And this is coming from someone who pre-ordered Pragmata on my 4080/13700k DDR5 PC. Everyone is in for a good time and that's great.

I have xsx ,i had ps5 pro, and bought re9 on switch 2 and 4 real it played good switch 2 is really impressive

 

[RodriGames40]

The VRR range is 40hz to 120hz iirc.

This is dropping below 40 far too frequently for it to be viable.

To be fair, Switch 2 is supposed to have LFC through hardware like Xbox. No idea why it's so hard for devs to make it work when it is literally just a GSync display...

 

[Nvzman]

It's not impressive. It's runs at 540p and 360p at ~30fps and ~40fps and stutters without VRR. it looks just OK on screenshots but in motion it's not great. I'll take XSS stable 60fps over this.

It's 540p with DLSS, and you're only pointing out the lows, not the average. I played the Demo on S2 and PC, and the S2 version held up surprisingly well, I couldn't get it running on my 258v laptop with better performance than S2 without dropping the internal res to ACTUAL 540p, which looked way way worse than S2.

To me, it seems very clear you just want them to compare it to PS5/XSX (which are essentially in a completely different tier of hardware, which makes it kind of a stupid comparison. You don't compare a Civic Si to a Camaro SS.) to make the S2 version look more unfavorable. That's literally all it would accomplish.

For a machine that is using something like 10-20w (9w with a battery), which is over 200w less than what those consoles are using, yes that is incredibly impressive. But we get it, you just want to complain for your own bias.

 

[kevboard]

The VRR range is 40hz to 120hz iirc.

This is dropping below 40 far too frequently for it to be viable.

he says in the video that even above the 40fps mark it isn't working correctly.

but the next issue is of course that devs don't run their game at 120hz with LFC. especially a game like Pragmata that is constantly dropping frames would need that

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

When the next people want to talk about how xyz will hold the generation back, look at this, and keep in mind that the PS6HH is like 2-3x more powerful than the Switch 2.

It's not impressive. It's runs at 540p and 360p at ~30fps and ~40fps and stutters without VRR. it looks just OK on screenshots but in motion it's not great. I'll take XSS stable 60fps over this.

It's actually impressive, its capcoms fault that they didn't just lock the framerate to 30fps and call it a day.

 

[RoboFu]

ugh its Oliver.

getting the switch 2 version for sure.

 

[crazyriddler]

They are always trying to sell Switch 2 ports by comparing it to the blurry XSS. It's really becoming a pattern.

Why would anyone compare Switch 2 to XSS except to put that version in the best light possible? when it's in fact easily the worse version and the least playable because of instable framerate and DLSS lite artefacts in motion?

I remember during PS4 vs XB1 comparisons, they were always praising the 3-5fps advantage in some XB1 games in long paragraphs and were completely dismissing 720p vs 1080p (and later 900p vs 1080p). They just just flip the script when they need to. No consistency at all.

It's compared to the XSS because it's the most basic model among home consoles, and because the Switch 2 is a battery-powered portable console, so it doesn't make sense to compare it to, say, the PS5 Pro, which draws about 300 watts, whereas the Switch 2 draws just about 30 watts. And yes, it's impressive that it achieves those results while consuming 10 times less power.

 

[andreacusi]

Sounds decent.

Hopefully it'll be patched regularly like RE9 to optimize performance.

 

[Tomorrow]

ignoring PC version lol. does it make ps5 look bad?

 

[kevboard]

They are always trying to sell Switch 2 ports by comparing it to the blurry XSS. It's really becoming a pattern.

they are comparing it to the closest other system the game is releasing on...
and it also has an image quality advantage over it. so why not show that?

yes it's only about half as powerful, but the Series S is also only 1/3 as powerful as the big consoles, yet constantly gets compared to them as well.

 

[Baemono]

Are people really taking raw data such as resolution and making weird assumptions ? Is this 2016 all over again ?

 

[Fbh]

Seems pretty decent on all platforms, RE Engine is usually solid as long as the game isn't open world.

The Switch 2 is what it is, I don't get why some people have this idea that every Switch 2 video should be all about shitting on it for not being as strong as other consoles that are exponentially bigger and more power hungry.
If it's the only console you have or portability is important to you, it still seems like a decent version of the game.

ignoring PC version lol. does it make ps5 look bad?

Or, you know, they'll milk a big release by making multiple videos about it instead of putting everything in one. Like they do almost every time.

 

[Darsxx82]

Pointing that Capcom's ports for XSS always leave something to be desired... the summary would be that SW2 has DLLS and therefore better IQ (360p-540p and framerate fluctuating between 30s-60fps) and XSS has greater power and therefore clearly better performance (720p 60fps locked).

 

[Signalis]

 

[gundalf]

It seems to be a great port for SW2 although some of the blurry textures makes me wish Nintendo would unlock 1GB more RAM, I think by now it's clear that GameChat didn't turn out to be that popular.

 

[kevboard]

Pointing that Capcom's ports for XSS always leave something to be desired... the summary would be that SW2 has DLLS and therefore better IQ (360p-540p and framerate fluctuating between 30s-60fps) and XSS has greater power and therefore clearly better performance (720p 60fps locked).

them not using FSR3 on the Series S is the main issue here.

adding FSR3 to reconstruct to 1440p would probably improve image quality in an insane way

 

[rodrigolfp]

they are comparing it to the closest other system the game is releasing on...

They should include the Steam Deck as it is much closer.

 

[kevboard]

They should include the Steam Deck as it is much closer.

steam deck seem to be slightly better than Switch 2 handheld mode, but of course far worse than docked mode.

the issue with comparing Switch 2 to Steam Deck is that they currently have no way to get direct feed footage from handheld mode, and that handheld mode comparison would be the main interest of such a comparison.

 

[Mayar]

Another Ambitious Capcom Port

Since when 540p in docked mode and 360p in handheld mode, with FPS fluctuating between 30-40 FPS and issues with stutters without VRR, become considered normal? If this is now the norm and gold standart for quality? Then I'm scared to imagine what will happen next. Maybe we shouldn't lower the bar that low.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Since when 540p in docked mode and 360p in handheld mode, with FPS fluctuating between 30-40 FPS and issues with stutters without VRR, become considered normal? If this is now the norm and gold standart for quality? Then I'm scared to imagine what will happen next. Maybe we shouldn't lower the bar that low.

Since it is on a 10W handheld console.

 

[Gaiff]

It's not impressive. It's runs at 540p and 360p at ~30fps and ~40fps and stutters without VRR. it looks just OK on screenshots but in motion it's not great. I'll take XSS stable 60fps over this.

The only problem is the dumbasses who decided to leave the frame rate unlocked. Should have been a 30 and 40fps mode and it would have been a decent way to play the game.

 

[Mayar]

Since it is on a 10W handheld console.

So? I have this console and I'm not happy.
The GameCard issue is a real pain in my ass (I absolutely hate it), but I'm honestly not happy with the performance and quality of the ports (Sometimes I even wonder if it was worth porting these games... Although, of course, everyone wants the extra money).

 

[Baemono]

So?

The expectations are in line with what's the game is running on.

It would be like shitting on any game that doesn't do 4K@120fps with RT on PS5.

 

[Mayar]

The expectations are in line with what's the game is running on.

It would be like shitting on any game that doesn't do 4K@120fps with RT on PS5.

I have a PS5 and don't demand this from it. Maybe I just have a special love for Nintendo consoles and their quality. And frankly, both the Switch and the Switch 2 are somewhat disappointing in terms of technical quality for me.

 

[J Required]

Switch 2 is doing 540p docked?

 

[J Required]

It's not impressive. It's runs at 540p and 360p at ~30fps and ~40fps and stutters without VRR. it looks just OK on screenshots but in motion it's not great. I'll take XSS stable 60fps over this.

PS4Pro!!! Remember that!!!

This thing is basically PS4 with DLSS and SSD.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

They are always trying to sell Switch 2 ports by comparing it to the blurry XSS. It's really becoming a pattern.

Why would anyone compare Switch 2 to XSS except to put that version in the best light possible? when it's in fact easily the worse version and the least playable because of instable framerate and DLSS lite artefacts in motion?

I remember during PS4 vs XB1 comparisons, they were always praising the 3-5fps advantage in some XB1 games in long paragraphs and were completely dismissing 720p vs 1080p (and later 900p vs 1080p). They just just flip the script when they need to. No consistency at all.

Are you upset that a tablet is outperforming the "little best" series s console? Seems like it. The iq is way better on the switch 2 vs the s. Most people would take that any day. The series s continues to be an embarrassment and I feel sorry for anyone who has one.

 

[Baemono]

I have a PS5 and don't demand this from it.

That's what I am saying

Maybe I just have a special love for Nintendo consoles and their quality. And frankly, both the Switch and the Switch 2 are somewhat disappointing in terms of technical quality for me.

The Switch 2 can run PS4 games with a bit of RT and high framerates. It still manages to run games that the PS5 struggles with, which is 8-10x more powerful than the PS4.

And don't act like it looks like a GameCube game at 540p

 

[Shin-Ra]

Probably should've set a 40fps/120Hz target and optimised the game around that on Switch 2. Maybe offer an uncapped mode for future Switch hardware upgrades.

 

[Mayar]

And don't act like it looks like a GameCube game at 540p

I didn't write that, I simply said I was dissatisfied with the quality. And I love my GameCube and play it occasionally.

 

[crazyriddler]

I have a PS5 and don't demand this from it. Maybe I just have a special love for Nintendo consoles and their quality. And frankly, both the Switch and the Switch 2 are somewhat disappointing in terms of technical quality for me.

And what exactly did you expect from a handheld? The same quality as the PS5? Which, by the way, not even handheld PCs that cost four figures can match.

 

[Baemono]

I didn't write that, I simply said I was dissatisfied with the quality. And I love my GameCube and play it occasionally.

Fair enough

 

[Mayar]

And what exactly did you expect from a handheld? The same quality as the PS5? Which, by the way, not even handheld PCs that cost four figures can match.

Just stable, smooth performance at 30 FPS, with a smooth image, nothing more. I actually have fairly low image quality requirements, as I'm a retro enthusiast and collector.

 

[Shin-Ra]

 

[Ryseer]

It's compared to the XSS because it's the most basic model among home consoles, and because the Switch 2 is a battery-powered portable console, so it doesn't make sense to compare it to, say, the PS5 Pro, which draws about 300 watts, whereas the Switch 2 draws just about 30 watts. And yes, it's impressive that it achieves those results while consuming 10 times less power.

The pro can use less power than a launch model PS5. I've seen it go up to 220w,so that 300watt claim is bs.

 

[vkbest]

To be fair, Switch 2 is supposed to have LFC through hardware like Xbox. No idea why it's so hard for devs to make it work when it is literally just a GSync display...

LFC is a software thing mate

 

[pulicat]

It's not impressive. It's runs at 540p and 360p at ~30fps and ~40fps and stutters without VRR. it looks just OK on screenshots but in motion it's not great. I'll take XSS stable 60fps over this.

540p DLSS to 1080p is different than native 540p; it is also at ~45fps and ~55fps not ~30fps and ~40fps.

 

[Darkness_Arises]

It's compared to the XSS because it's the most basic model among home consoles, and because the Switch 2 is a battery-powered portable console, so it doesn't make sense to compare it to, say, the PS5 Pro, which draws about 300 watts, whereas the Switch 2 draws just about 30 watts. And yes, it's impressive that it achieves those results while consuming 10 times less power.

Just like the PS5 OG and slim models, the PS5 pro power draw does not exceed 200-215W in most games, where are you pulling the 300W number from?

 

[Shin-Ra]

As well as screen-space reflections revealing the lower input res (540p/360p) on Switch 2, effects like depth of field (reduced or missing on S2) and even faster motion can reveal a more aliased image with 'tiny' DLSS.

 

[bender]

Switch 2 is a beast!

 

[kevboard]

As well as screen-space reflections revealing the lower input res (540p/360p) on Switch 2, effects like depth of field (reduced or missing on S2) and even faster motion can reveal a more aliased image with 'tiny' DLSS.

yeah it's clearly the reduced DLSS, it also has the same weird patterns on some surfaces that FF7 already had. that's something I instantly noticed in the demo in handheld mode

 

[Buggy Loop]

It's not impressive. It's runs at 540p and 360p at ~30fps and ~40fps and stutters without VRR. it looks just OK on screenshots but in motion it's not great. I'll take XSS stable 60fps over this.

Peoples act like internal resolution is really telling of performance compared to consoles that had no AI upscaling? What's going on here? There's a cost to have DLSS over TAA. Almost always beneficial as can be seen against Series S.

 

[Felessan]

It's compared to the XSS because it's the most basic model among home consoles, and because the Switch 2 is a battery-powered portable console, so it doesn't make sense to compare it to, say, the PS5 Pro, which draws about 300 watts, whereas the Switch 2 draws just about 30 watts. And yes, it's impressive that it achieves those results while consuming 10 times less power.

It does
People doesn't care about whether console 30w or 200w - it's console problem. People care about IQ/framerate of what they see on the screen
And comparing dock mode with irrelevant weakling is not honest comparison