What exactly is your argument? In ROTTR native 4K mode is basically a checklist box because the game look & run better in enhanced mode.
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Digital Foundry: Quantum Break Xbox One X vs Xbox One: First Look
- Thread starter dancrane212
- Start date
What exactly is your argument? In ROTTR native 4K mode is basically a checklist box because the game look & run better in enhanced mode.
What exactly is your argument? In ROTTR native 4K mode is basically a checklist box because the game look & run better in enhanced mode.
That enhanced mode "looking and running better" in Rise of the Tomb Raider (even ignoring potential differing opinions as to what looks better.. DF metrics are objective, not their opinions), doesn't mean "native 4K" itself is a mere checklist box feature. Just because a game is now giving the option, doesn't mean the choice of native 4K in another game wasn't selected precisely because the resolution benefits outweight the performance benefits of checkboarding. A checkboarded Forza Motorsport 7 would still be capped to 60fps, and in contrast to the existing PC version, it presumably wouldn't result in a better looking or running game.
That enhanced mode "looking and running better" in Rise of the Tomb Raider (even ignoring potential differing opinions as to what looks better.. DF metrics are objective, not their opinions), doesn't mean "native 4K" itself is a mere checklist box feature. Just because a game is now giving the option, doesn't mean the choice of native 4K in another game wasn't selected precisely because the resolution benefits outweight the performance benefits of checkboarding. A checkboarded Forza Motorsport 7 would still be capped to 60fps, and in contrast to the existing PC version, it presumably wouldn't result in a better looking or running game.
So you're just arguing to be arguing? I said
In the latest Digital Foundry video Richard comes right out & say that enhanced mode on ROTTR for Xbox One X is better than native 4K mode.
Native 4K is basically a check list box & if it was the only goal just about every game on PS4 Pro & Xbox One could be native 4K but it really isn't the best choice for every game so why chase behind that check box?
So you're just arguing to be arguing? I said
Clearly with the first words of my very first response to you on the subject being "Well, you said it yourself", I had taken the bolded into account...
My point was that it not being that native 4K not being the best choice for every game also works in reverse, with checkerboarded 4K not being the best choice for every game either. So using DF's opinion on RoTR to substantiate a claim that native 4K is merely a checklist box feature, is silly. Any resolution, framerate or upscaling/reconstuction technique would be a checklist box feature if all it took were a single example of another choice being better to relegate it to being one.
The answer to "why chase native 4K?" would simply be because in some cases that would be the best graphical result.
Clearly with the first words of my very first response to you on the subject being "Well, you said it yourself", I had taken the bolded into account...
My point was that it not being that native 4K not being the best choice for every game also works in reverse, with checkerboarded 4K not being the best choice for every game either. So using DF's opinion on RoTR to substantiate a claim that native 4K is merely a checklist box feature, is silly. Any resolution, framerate or upscaling/reconstuction technique would be a checklist box feature if all it took were a single example of another choice being better to relegate it to being one.
The answer to "why chase native 4K?" would simply be because in some cases that would be the best graphical result.
lol if I say why chase native 4K as a checklist box when it's not the best choice for every game it should go without saying that I'm not talking about the cases when it is the best choice.
You really are just arguing to be arguing.
So you're just arguing to be arguing? I said
You're point in this discussion falls apart when Rich said enriched mode is the mode he would play it in, not that CBR (or TI) is better across the board. Typically if a studio can reach their performance and graphical goals in native 4K, they'll use native 4K. If they need to use another method such as reconstruction rendering, dynamic resolution, lower base resolution, or a combination of the above, they will use that instead.
Still, trying to apply how one person would play one game to everyone as it proves a point is silly. There could be people who prefer native 4K or others that prefer the high frame rate mode. Doesn't make that mode the definitive mode to play all games for all people.
You're point in this discussion falls apart when Rich said enriched mode is the mode he would play it in, not that CBR (or TI) is better across the board. Typically if a studio can reach their performance and graphical goals in native 4K, they'll use native 4K. If they need to use another method such as reconstruction rendering, dynamic resolution, lower base resolution, or a combination of the above, they will use that instead.
Still trying to apply how one person would play one game to everyone as it proves a point is silly. There could be people who prefer native 4K or others that prefer the high frame rate mode. Doesn't make that mode the definitive mode to play all games for all people.
Where did I say that CBR or TI was better across the board?
and what point did I say this proves?
I swear it seem like some of you be arguing with my ghost or something because y'all be seeing things that I didn't type then be trying to prove it wrong.
lol if I say why chase native 4K as a checklist box when it's not the best choice for every game it should go without saying that I'm not talking about the cases when it is the best choice.
You really are just arguing to be arguing.
The whole point is designating a native 4K resolution as being "a checklist box". It's not something that's there just for the sake of saying its there... Why would you even make that comment otherwise?
The whole point is designating a native 4K resolution as being "a checklist box". It's not something that's there just for the sake of saying its there... Why would you even make that comment otherwise?
I was talking about in ROTTR on Xbox One X it's basically a checklist feature because they have a 4K mode that also have other graphical enhancements & run smoother than the 4K native mode & also that most games on PS4 Pro & Xbox One X could be 4K native if that was the only goal but why chase after native 4K (as a checklist box) when it's not the best choice for every game.
HawksWinStanley
Member
That's really impressive. I'm not in the market for a new console any time soon but it does give me a semi thinking about next gen.
The whole point is designating a native 4K resolution as being "a checklist box". It's not something that's there just for the sake of saying its there... Why would you even make that comment otherwise?
This exactly.
I was talking about in ROTTR on Xbox One X it's basically a checklist feature because they have a 4K mode that also have other graphical enhancements & run smoother than the 4K native mode & also that most games on PS4 Pro & Xbox One X could be 4K native if that was the only goal but why chase after native 4K (as a checklist box) when it's not the best choice for every game.
We don't know yet if most games could be 4K on the 1X and especially the Pro. Your posts make no sense when every game isn't chasing after native 4K. 4K is not a checklist, most studios aren't going to spend time optimizing for native 4K to check some box. The original game already runs at 1080p, so it probably wasn't too hard to reach 4K at the same graphical settings, so why not do it? There could be some that prefer the native 4K mode over the enriched mode.
You're making assumptions over someone's prefer play method on one game.
I was talking about in ROTTR on Xbox One X it's basically a checklist feature because they have a 4K mode that also have other graphical enhancements & run smoother than the 4K native mode & also that most games on PS4 Pro & Xbox One X could be 4K native if that was the only goal but why chase after native 4K (as a checklist box) when it's not the best choice for every game.
Well yea, it's clearly not the only goal even for games that do hit that mark. 1080p60 isn't Forza Motorsport's only goal either.
Fair enough, if you were intending to limit that comment to Rise of the Tomb Raider specifically, but by separating the two comments into individual paragraphs you basically broke that context to the reader. Even in terms of RoTR though, I would not pass it off as a mere checkbox feature either however. As stated before, DF provides objective measurements, not objective opinions. In the article I assume you're referring to he doesn't even outright say the enriched mode looks "better"... rather that it has a higher visual feature set (which it still had even at 1080p on PS4 Pro), whilst running better. He referred to this as probably being the "best balance", which isn't the same statement. Considering he states that he feels additional development on the Ntaive 4K mode should be focused on increasing performance, rather than the visual featureset implies that the performance is the main basis for his preference. He freely offers that other people may well prefer the native 4K image... so its inclusion isn't really any less valid than the 3 equivalent modes it shipped with on PS4 Pro (where you could argue for the image quality of the 4kcb mode vs the visual featureset of the 1080p enriched mode).
Well yea, it's clearly not the only goal even for games that do hit that mark. 1080p60 isn't Forza Motorsport's only goal either.
Fair enough, if you were intending to limit that comment to Rise of the Tomb Raider specifically, but by separating the two comments into individual paragraphs you basically broke that context to the reader. Even in terms of RoTR though, I would not pass it off as a mere checkbox feature either however. As stated before, DF provides objective measurements, not objective opinions. In the article I assume you're referring to he doesn't even outright say the enriched mode looks "better"... rather that it has a higher visual feature set (which it still had even at 1080p on PS4 Pro), whilst running better. He referred to this as probably being the "best balance", which isn't the same statement. Considering he states that he feels additional development on the Ntaive 4K mode should be focused on increasing performance, rather than the visual featureset implies that the performance is the main basis for his preference. He freely offers that other people may well prefer the native 4K image... so its inclusion isn't really any less valid than the 3 equivalent modes it shipped with on PS4 Pro (where you could argue for the image quality of the 4kcb mode vs the visual featureset of the 1080p enriched mode).
I think he's referring to the video comparison, where he says the enriched mode is the one he'd choose to play it in - which is a far cry from declaring it the 'best' mode. People value effects/framerate/aliasing at different amounts, so his personal preference might not be for everyone.
This exactly.
We don't know yet if most games could be 4K on the 1X and especially the Pro. Your posts make no sense when every game isn't chasing after native 4K. 4K is not a checklist, most studios aren't going to spend time optimizing for native 4K to check some box. The original game already runs at 1080p, so it probably wasn't too hard to reach 4K at the same graphical settings, so why not do it? There could be some that prefer the native 4K mode over the enriched mode.
You're making assumptions over someone's prefer play method on one game.
Again what are you even talking about?
I think he's referring to the video comparison, where he says the enriched mode is the one he'd choose to play it in - which is a far cry from declaring it the 'best' mode. People value effects/framerate/aliasing at different amounts, so his personal preference might not be for everyone.
Yup, that's exactly what I'm referring to. Rich says based on the demo code, he'd opt for the Enriched Mode. onQ123 has internally parsed that as "looks and runs better" (factually), and then declares the native 4K mode a "checkbox" feature due to it not being Rich's preference. Interestingly, this doesn't apparently apply to the high framerate mode, that also wasn't Rich's preferred choice...
EDIT: I should have been clearer, in that I was referring to the video linked within the article, along with the text itself.
Again what are you even talking about?
I don't think I'm explaining myself as well as the other people here you're now ignoring. I'll break your post down to hopefully better make my point.
I was talking about in ROTTR on Xbox One X it's basically a checklist feature because they have a 4K mode that also have other graphical enhancements & run smoother than the 4K native mode
The original game already runs at 1080p, so it probably wasn't too hard to reach 4K at the same graphical settings, so why not do it? There could be some that prefer the native 4K mode over the enriched mode.
& also that most games on PS4 Pro & Xbox One X could be 4K native if that was the only goal
We don't know yet if most games could be 4K on the 1X and especially the Pro.
but why chase after native 4K (as a checklist box) when it's not the best choice for every game.
Your posts make no sense when every game isn't chasing after native 4K. 4K is not a checklist, most studios aren't going to spend time optimizing for native 4K to check some box.
There are a lot of large 'invisible' things outputting pixels. E.g. shadow rendering commonly defaults to 4 1k*1k targets. Sure, rop/bandwidth limited rather than shading but xbx doesn't have the fillrate to scale it 4x at same speed anyway.onanie said:Mathematically for a 4K image, you would have to have a significant amount of effects at less than 3.5 times 1080p resolution, in order for your total processing to average 3.5 times a 1080p image.
It's not uncommon to not scale it with resolution at all.
My comment was so simple yet y'all made it seem as if it was so hard to understand.
There is games on PS4 Pro / Xbox One X that are not 4K native but they could have been 4K native if that was the main goal but it's not & the reason is because native 4K wasn't the best choice for those games on the console they are on so why would the dev chase behind native 4K just to check that box?
There is no hidden message here about CBR being better than native 4K or anything.
There is games on PS4 Pro / Xbox One X that are not 4K native but they could have been 4K native if that was the main goal but it's not & the reason is because native 4K wasn't the best choice for those games on the console they are on so why would the dev chase behind native 4K just to check that box?
There is no hidden message here about CBR being better than native 4K or anything.
Dictator93
Member
Well in this case bumping up the game to a traditionally rendered 3840X2160 from its original xb1 (1920X1080 for gameplay) platform release apparently does not require visual reduction, it is more or less linear upgrade because of the GPU performance difference from xb1 to xb1x. On PS4 to PS4pro, the differential is not so large, so natively rendered 3840X2160 without rendering quality downgrades is 'off the cards' so to speak.
I do not think it is a vanity check list really, just an option for those that prefer the clarity in motion provided by non-checkboarded pixels.
I do not think it is a vanity check list really, just an option for those that prefer the clarity in motion provided by non-checkboarded pixels.
My comment was so simple yet y'all made it seem as if it was so hard to understand.
There is games on PS4 Pro / Xbox One X that are not 4K native but they could have been 4K native if that was the main goal but it's not & the reason is because native 4K wasn't the best choice for those games on the console they are on so why would the dev chase behind native 4K just to check that box?
There is no hidden message here about CBR being better than native 4K or anything.
This may just be that you're not very good with words. Calling something "a checklist box" is going to be read as a statement of the feature's worth... that it's being "chased" simply to say they have it. That's what doing something "to check a box" implies... it's how language works. When you combine such a statement with an inaccurate attribution of one option being claimed definitively as "better" than another, then there aren't many other ways to read your statement without questioning why you'd even be making one.
Because some may prefer playing the game at native resolution on their 4K tv.My comment was so simple yet y'all made it seem as if it was so hard to understand.
There is games on PS4 Pro / Xbox One X that are not 4K native but they could have been 4K native if that was the main goal but it's not & the reason is because native 4K wasn't the best choice for those games on the console they are on so why would the dev chase behind native 4K just to check that box?
There is no hidden message here about CBR being better than native 4K or anything.