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[GillianSeed79]

But I thought PS4 Pro was pointless for 4K TV owners like me because it doesn't have a 4K Blu-Ray disc drive? /kidding.

So I guess I'll use PS4 Pro for my games and the Xbox One for media, pretty much like I do now.

 

[Jonboy]

That article did a better job on selling the Pro than Sony did.

I never thought we would come out of the event with more questions than answers, but that's exactly how I feel right now. The benefits for non-4k folks (which is most people) were not clearly spelled out.

I also think it's incredibly important to know if games that struggled with performance on the standard PS4 will get a framerate bump on the Pro without a patch? It seems like a patch would be required as the game would just default to the "standard PS4 mode," but to me this seems ridiculous. It should be similar to the Xbox One S where even the old games can take advantage of the CPU boost and new GPU.

And as much as I applaud and welcome the dev decision to give us options, I'm already dreading the choice of deciding between 1080p/60, 1080p/30 with better graphics, or 4k/30 with standard graphics. That's honestly an incredibly difficult decision.

 

[hodayathink]

Still, its simply indicates that the PS4 with its upscale + anti-aliasing techniques involved is doing a better job than just the panel taking 1080p and upscaling it. I would say that's excepted. And I would even say that upscalers for 4K TVs are probably shitty all around. this valorise the 4K mode which is the false reason why they make you buy such products afterall.

I'll comeback someday when its worth it, when we mostly all have 60 inches panels, when I have bionic eyes (cause right now my glasses wouldn't cut it much) and when a large majority of content will be filmed and made right there native 4k.
Right now there are trying to sell us the futur right now when it clearly didn't happen yet.

You're completely ignoring the fact that it's rendering at greater than 1080p, which is what adds the detail. Most games aren't actually rendering at 4K, but this isn't just a pure upscale.

 

[Chamber]

So if I'm understanding correctly, a person with a 1080p tv can choose the 4K option in a game and get super sampling on their 1080p screen. Is that correct?

 

[RoboPlato]

So if I'm understanding correctly, a person with a 1080p tv can choose the 4K option in a game and get super sampling on their 1080p screen. Is that correct?

It should automatically detect what type of display you have hooked up.

 

[JustenP88]

Native 4K was never even a remote possibility with these games, right? Hell, I didn't even realize games like Horizon were going to have a 4k option at all. I just thought better IQ for the big titles in 1080p and maybe some 4k in smaller, less taxing games and streaming content.

I am insanely stoked about seeing Second Son in 4k with HDR. I loved the look of that game. Those colors are going to pop like a mother fucker.

 

[Inuhanyou]

So if I'm understanding correctly, a person with a 1080p tv can choose the 4K option in a game and get super sampling on their 1080p screen. Is that correct?

Yes. There will be a way to choose which option you want of course. Internal res is still internal res after all.

 

[Chamber]

It should automatically detect what type of display you have hooked up.

Right but something like Tomb Raider has 3 different modes you can select. Would it be beneficial to pick the 4K option on a 1080p screen if you value clean IQ?

Yes. There will be a way to choose which option you want of course. Internal res is still internal res after all.

Wonderful.

 

[The Praiseworthy]

So if I'm understanding correctly, a person with a 1080p tv can choose the 4K option in a game and get super sampling on their 1080p screen. Is that correct?

Pretty much this:

It should automatically detect what type of display you have hooked up.

 

[Stealthcobra]

So for the tv tech gurus... I have the samsung 50ju7100 its 4k, but not hdr... Do you think its sufficient for the ps4 pro... Or am i missing out by not having an 4k hdr tv?

 

[c0de]

You will be massively dissapointed if you think Scorpio can do 4k gaming on all games, its rumored GPU is just 30% over what we have in Neo.

Titan XP can barely run everything in 4k and its twice the power of Scorpio.

Well, if ps4p is close to 4k, the Scorpio will definitely be a lot closer.

 

[DangerMouse]

Maybe less than that depending on the breakdown of their spec. I expect there will be more native 4K there, but in a lot of cases it will also be shades of '4K-Kinda'.

Yup. I think so too.

I think the most impressive aspect is that its not done in software at all, these are fixed function units inside the GPU custom ordered by Sony to focus on this checkerboard rendering technique.

And supposedly, they have even more in the GPU they aren't talking about yet that isn't apart of polaris and made specifically for the Pro. You get all these features for free with no cost to the actual GPU or CPU resources

Yeah.

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

I was so confused when I was watching the con.

Im looking at this footage and I just didn't get it. This is such a hard sell because you really just have to own the proper gear. 4K Set with HDR support, PS4Pro, and the latest standard HDMI.

But Im really intrigued to see the Games are stepping up to drive 4K content. That is astonishing even due to trying to go for mass market levels.

HDR really is no joke and its funny to me because I forgot about it since its been a while since Ive seen it. You want to talk about no 4K content (Just not fucking true anymore)
Theres like nothing in HDR.. Great hits like the Life of Pi and Exodus...

I have no problem with Games filling that lane. Its only right they would benefit the most from it.

4K TVs are accessible, idk what HDR prices are like right now but at least you can get 60hz 4Ks for decent money.

What saves the PS4Pro is this checkerboard rendering. I was confused on how the system scaling would be any better than the 4K TV doing it. But it really is a different process than traditional upscaling.

Can someone help me visualize what extrapolating 2x2 to 4x4 looks like? How is it different from a normal upscale algorithm?

 

[OccamsLightsaber]

No downsampling for us filthy 1080peasants?

 

[icespide]

No downsampling for us filthy 1080peasants?

you can

 

[Wishmaster92]

According to the Tomb Raider interview, the 1080p 30fps mode has "every rendering technique thrown at it: Multi-pass rendering, much better shading, pbr lighting" He makes it sound like it will have substantial visual improvements even to the pc version maxed?

 

[Aceofspades]

Well, if ps4p is close to 4k, the Scorpio will definitely be a lot closer.

Of course it will be closer, it has more powerful GPU. No one said otherwise.

 

[MastaKilla]

So what I'm still getting from this is that the Ps4 Pro won't be worthwhile if you don't have a 4K TV set?

 

[ZoyosJD]

DF should no better than to call this upscaling

LOL. So salty and still out of your depth like you're in the Mariana trench.

Temporal or Volumetric Frame Assimilation, checkerboard rendering, and upscaling are the names of the actual techniques being applied here to produce a 4k image from a relatively low powered GPU that would be impossible with the "uprendering" technique.

Get used to it.

 

[MarineMountie]

So what I'm still getting from this is that the Ps4 Pro won't be worthwhile if you don't have a 4K TV set?

Wrong. You still get super-sampling 1080p, choices on how you want to use the power in games like Tomb Raider which offers 3 different settings, better frame rates, slightly faster CPU which will help with menus and whatnot..I mean the GPU is 2 times stronger. Of course you will get benefit. I don't have a 4K TV yet and I already pre ordered a PS4P.

 

[Hoje0308]

TV shopping for this is going to be a nightmare. HDR seems to add a lot of lag, even with game modes enabled. I should get to bed though.

 

[ViciousDS]

So what I'm still getting from this is that the Ps4 Pro won't be worthwhile if you don't have a 4K TV set?

No it will, you will be able to downscale games or choose a 1080p uber graphics mode basically.

The problem is Sony mentioned HDR and 4K 5 million times to make it seem that way. There is a clear advantage even for a 1080p user going in to buy a Pro.


Edit: beaten

 

[Inuhanyou]

So what I'm still getting from this is that the Ps4 Pro won't be worthwhile if you don't have a 4K TV set?

Not true. It depends on what the developers want to do. In the case of Tomb Raider, Nixxes went above and beyond(as they could cause its fucking nixxes). 1080p mode at 45 to 60fps similar to definitive edition, 1080p mode at 30fps with every graphical setting on PC they could throw at it, plus more, and a 4k checkerboard rendering mode with reduced graphics, closer to original PS4.

 

[icespide]

TV shopping for this is going to be a nightmare. HDR seems to add a lot of lag, even with game modes enabled. I should get to bed though.

yeah i lurked in the Xbox One S HDR settings thread a bit and it seemed like a nightmare right now. different tvs call it different things, not intuitive to enable, HDR only available on one input, etc

 

[Hesemonni]

TV shopping for this is going to be a nightmare. HDR seems to add a lot of lag, even with game modes enabled. I should get to bed though.

And on top of that there are differences in HDR execution.

 

[JustenP88]

So what I'm still getting from this is that the Ps4 Pro won't be worthwhile if you don't have a 4K TV set?

That's up to each user to decide. There are benefits for 1080people.

According to the Tomb Raider interview, the 1080p 30fps mode has "every rendering technique thrown at it: Multi-pass rendering, much better shading, pbr lighting" He makes it sound like it will have substantial visual improvements even to the pc version maxed?

 

[MastaKilla]

Wrong. You still get super-sampling 1080p, choices on how you want to use the power in games like Tomb Raider which offers 3 different settings, better frame rates, slightly faster CPU which will help with menus and whatnot..I mean the GPU is 2 times stronger. Of course you will get benefit. I don't have a 4K TV yet and I already pre ordered a PS4P.

No it will, you will be able to downscale games or choose a 1080p uber graphics mode basically.

The problem is Sony mentioned HDR and 4K 5 million times to make it seem that way. There is a clear advantage even for a 1080p user going in to buy a Pro.


Edit: beaten

Not true. It depends on what the developers want to do. In the case of Tomb Raider, Nixxes went above and beyond(as they could cause its fucking nixxes). 1080p mode at 45 to 60fps similar to definitive edition, 1080p mode at 30fps with every graphical setting on PC they could throw at it, plus more, and a 4kcheckerboard rendering mode with reduced graphics, closer to original PS4.

Thank you guys, appreciate the explanation. Ive been utterly confused about this. That puts me back on the fence though, I don't have a 4K TV but I might get a Pro if there's a decent trade in deal then.

 

[Harmondale]

God damnit If I dident have a wife I would go out NOW and buy a 4K OLED Sony HDR 60"+

 

[Foxyone]

It'd be cool if AMD or Nvidia could make use of that checkerboard technique on PC because it sounds pretty appealing as an alternative to brute forcing 4k native.

 

[vatstep]

TV shopping for this is going to be a nightmare. HDR seems to add a lot of lag, even with game modes enabled. I should get to bed though.

Hopefully Sony will provide some recommendations for compatible TVs before launch. I'm sure they'll all be Sony sets, but still.

 

[MarineMountie]

God damnit If I dident have a wife I would go out NOW and buy a 4K OLED Sony HDR 60"+

Funny...after my divorce that is what I did, only it was a car.

 

[DangerMouse]

Native 4K was never even a remote possibility with these games, right? Hell, I didn't even realize games like Horizon were going to have a 4k option at all. I just thought better IQ for the big titles in 1080p and maybe some 4k in smaller, less taxing games and streaming content.

I am insanely stoked about seeing Second Son in 4k with HDR. I loved the look of that game. Those colors are going to pop like a mother fucker.

Yeah. And can't wait to try First Light (though that power is in SS too) and see it directly on my TV rather than stream, that power is practically made for HDR.

 

[Ushay]

Sounds like Sony has a very viable method to utilise 2x pixels for much higher displays. Good stuff. Question is how will it compare to Scorpio, which will undoubtedly use it's own rendering trickery with much more raw compute.

I can't wait to see how these games look on 4K displays personally.

 

[ViciousDS]

And on top of that there are differences in HDR execution.

Yup that nice looking on sale $400 Samsung TV I was looking at has UHD and HDR however the HDR according to reviews doesn't offer a huge color gamut and is rather lacking.

God this is such a fucking pain

 

[ethomaz]

Wait...

TLOU 4K native mode?
TLOU 60fos mode?

I will love to play it in both modes.

Looks really impressive.

 

[HTupolev]

Can someone help me visualize what extrapolating 2x2 to 4x4 looks like?

Render the red pixels.
Calculate everything else.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Sounds like Sony has a very viable method to utilise 2x pixels for much higher displays. Good stuff. Question is how will it compare to Scorpio, which will undoubtedly use it's own rendering trickery with much more raw compute.

I can't wait to see how these games look on 4K displays personally.

Wouldn't surprise me if it's the same or well just Native....they are promising it so we will see.

 

[vpance]

Hopefully Sony will provide some recommendations for compatible TVs before launch. I'm sure they'll all be Sony sets, but still.

Z9D if you're a baller. 940C otherwise.

 

[Inuhanyou]

It'd be cool if AMD or Nvidia could make use of that checkerboard technique on PC because it sounds pretty appealing as an alternative to brute forcing 4k native.

the thing is, that it would be up to devs to take advantage of it, because nvidia nor AMD have fixed function units built into their GPU pipelines at the hardware level to deal with that kind of thing.

It would be a gamechanger though, and absolutely reduce the need to kill these high end GPUs with native 4K until it becomes more viable

 

[ethomaz]

Enticingly, we were also told that there was more to the GPU enhancements mentioned than just the checkerboard upscaler, so the details there should be fascinating.

Interesting...

Sony did put some new hardware features into Polaris... I really want to know these custom modifications.

 

[Sickbean]

If the PS4 CPU is good enough to run Doom and F1 2016 at 60fps, why is it unrealistic to expect boosts for current 30fps games?

 

[Inuhanyou]

If the PS4 CPU is good enough to run Doom and F1 2016 at 60fps, why is it unrealistic to expect boosts for current 30fps games?

DOOM was built for 60fps at the game design level to account for the jaguars of the original PS4 and XB1. That doesn't apply for most games not coded for 60fps at the start.

You can make a 60fps game just fine if you develop your game with 60fps in mind from the start, that's always been true. But if you develop the systems to render the game at 30fps, jumping that up to 60fps is a huge hurdle

 

[c0de]

Of course it will be closer, it has more powerful GPU. No one said otherwise.

But what does that mean to how close the PS4P is to 4k if Scorpio will also be close but not achieve native 4k?

 

[JustenP88]

Omg Gravity Rush 2. They didn't mention that game at all at the meeting, did they?

 

[icespide]

Omg Gravity Rush 2. They didn't mention that game at all at the meeting, did they?

TGS

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Still disappointed that they chose to use this power for upscaling, instead of better effects. This could have really pushed 3D graphics to another level.

 

[vin-buc]

Every PS4 Pro thread has Scorpio in it. No one even knows what this console is yet make comparisons like it exists. Just stop lol.

Back on topic - read through the whole article and I'm very happy with the results. When I see RL gushing - makes me eager to get my Pro on the 10th.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Hype restored. Gonna preorder this thing.

 

[gatti-man]

So for the tv tech gurus... I have the samsung 50ju7100 its 4k, but not hdr... Do you think its sufficient for the ps4 pro... Or am i missing out by not having an 4k hdr tv?

HDR is nice but it's not everything. I'd say it's 20% of the 4K effect. Still worth the upgrade id think.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

So, not native 4k. 4kinda ?

Faux-K