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Discrimination and prejudice against attractive women
- Thread starter Oblivion
- Start date
- Status
Everyone's got problems, life isn't fair, it's a sin when success complains, etc.
It's hard to be attractive. It's hard to be ugly. It's hard to be a woman. It's hard to be a man. It's hard to be black. It's hard to be white. It's hard to be rich. It's hard to be poor.
People need to stop saying that it's so hard to be x, when it's really just hard to be people, to be human. You have problems that are both less and more severe than other people's. It's stupid to argue over who has it worse when we really should just be working to make it better for everyone.
Also
I admit, I'd be staring too.
It's hard to be attractive. It's hard to be ugly. It's hard to be a woman. It's hard to be a man. It's hard to be black. It's hard to be white. It's hard to be rich. It's hard to be poor.
People need to stop saying that it's so hard to be x, when it's really just hard to be people, to be human. You have problems that are both less and more severe than other people's. It's stupid to argue over who has it worse when we really should just be working to make it better for everyone.
Also
I admit, I'd be staring too.
Captain Sparrow
Banned
I REALLY dislike the notion that men are CEOs/higher ups more often because of an old stigma. I'm sure it happens, but not to the level that people think.
My mere 9 years in the workplace may not speak for everything, but I've still learned a lot. I don't believe I have truly seen a woman passed up for a job because she was a woman, let alone this huge nationwide common practice. Generally, the best person for the job (or highest on the political chain) gets it, woman or man. I have seen far less women compete for such jobs. If anyone gets placed in a higher position for anything other than performance, for what I have noticed, it has generally been a woman for AA quotas or her good looks. I also feel like a man and woman are challenged differently. Woman get very emotional when placed under certain stress, and I feel the bosses go lighter on them than their male counterparts.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Males like having their pictures taken with beautiful women...the HORROR!!
Vermillion
Banned
That ain't the problem. People think that they're booth babes or advertising things just because they're attractive women at E3.
I think most women just don't have the same aspirations for those positions of power that men have. That whole "gender income gap" is not because women and men are being paid differently to do the exact same job, it's because that higher positions of power, which also pay the most, are not as pursued by women as they are by men, and technical positions like Engineering are also not as pursued by women which are above average in salary.
ThisWreckage
Banned
The industry is dominated by males. It's an honest mistake and probability tells us that a lot of women working at E3 are indeed "booth babes".
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Eh, in my experience its all about the personality. I know women who are very Type A and are treated as such. I also know men who were way more whiny than I could ever tolerate and their bosses tended to baby them.
Typically a boss is hardest on the people he trusts. Regardless of gender. People have shit to get done. Very few people have the luxury of giving a shit what gender their subordinates are.
Vermillion
Banned
Hence the problem.
Were you cosplaying or just in normal cloth? Because if it's the latter than that would be really weird of those guys.
Edit: oh wait you were posing with a mascot for your own photographs. Hm well I guess I can sort of understand them then, still a little weird though :/
Mammoth Jones
Member
But is that truly horrible discrimination? Truly? I mean, I know that must be one tough cross to bear....having strangers approach you at a convention about gaming and asked to have a pic taken for their facebook page or blog...
The burden of beauty, I guess.....
ThisWreckage
Banned
It's not a problem. It's the reality of the situation. At the very most it was an unfortunate mistake, but anyone that knows anything about demographic information within the gaming community can tell you that it is male dominated.
No the problem women have in advancing in higher levels of employment is that they lack appropriate male advocates so to speak.
In any work place the best way to advance after the first year or two of the start up phase is to be taken under the wing of someone higher up. Through your talents and skills they can use you to further their own agenda and as a consequence you'll be given access to new opportunities unless the promotion cycle is very stagnant.
Since men have dominated the upper echelons of established companies by default you more often than not need a male advocate. Over time this should change in a couple of generations where genders balance out.
I say should because there have been strange developments at a certain point where men flea from professions that have too many women and you thus need a female advocate to get ahead in your work environment.
This shift doesn't happen often but it is undesirable effect that should be avoided if you want to promote gender equality in the workplace.
The second half of this portion of your post I'm quoting has nothing to do with the first half even though both are generally true. The first half actually relates to my earlier point about getting ahead.
Women don't compete because of one of the following reasons depending on their temperament.
1) Too many women strangely enough lack self-promotional skills in the work place. Finding a an advocate isn't just about someone higher up using you but also you putting yourself out there so you can be used which is something certain women are uncomfortable with doing.
2) You may be perceived inappropriately. This is a problem for women who do put in the effort to promote themselves and their message comes across as subvert come ons or being hyper aggressive (aka you are acting to manly). I think most women in this fall into the hyper aggressive stereotype trap but I'm not sure.
3) They go after the wrong advocates. The only reason I'm even remotely aware of these issues was from reading up on some anecdotal advice from women to women about getting ahead. Many feel that while a lot of corporation have made strong attempts to encourage gender equality at the higher C and Presidential levels for the most part it fails because of one stupid social trap. A lot of women receive counseling from other women in these corporate programs but these advisers don't hold or aren't closely related to high level positions. As a result there is a perpetuating cycle where women who may even consider wanting to getting ahead are trying to do so with other people (usually women) who aren't in the position to pull or push them up.
Vermillion
Banned
I imagine it blocks more women from going to such conventions.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I don't think E3 should be used as a barometer for any type of accuracy when it comes to gauging the presence of women in the workplace or their treatment. I don't go around asking my attractive female coworkers to take pictures with me.
Generally speaking, being attractive only helps one in the workplace. I don't see women going out getting surgery to be uglier to gain all those advantages. I don't see women quitting the gym and trying to put on as much weight as they can to enjoy all those office perks that the big boys and girls get.
Vermillion
Banned
I was talking about it being a problem within E3 alone.
Devolution
Member
It's not truly discrimination but it comes down to how being a woman can suck (attractive or not) in certain situations.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Sexism is a HUGE problem within the gaming industry, period. I won't deny that for a moment.
Mammoth Jones
Member
If being asked to take pictures at E3 is the worst example for how being attractive can suck then I'd say being attractive isn't the terrible burden it's made out to be.
Finaika
Member
Of course they wanted to take a picture of you at E3 because of your Ash cosplay.
Devolution
Member
It's not the worst but it feeds back into how attractive women are perceived to be ornaments rather than serious professionals.
Pretty much. All I guy has to do is dress up like a Space Marine (without looking like pure cheeze) and he'll be swarmed just as hard as women in cosplay.
It's the carnival effect and that is partly the problem with E3 (if one can call it a problem at all)
It's tradeshow that conducts business like it is mardi gras with only the cool kids getting invitations to private parties (e.g. closed room interviews).
Nintendoll
Member
Yup, posing for my own personal pics dressed pretty nondescriptly. It's half the reason I don't go to comic con anymore (the other half is me being too old to want to deal with how much of a shitshow it is now), kind of a burn, but not the worst thing that's ever happened to a person
The thing about it that makes it uncomfortable, is that I wasn't being asked, these were dudes sneaking up behind me, essentially.
Would you say LeBron has a tough life because people make fun of him?
Also, its commonly known in Australia that "fuckability" is a key criteria for becoming a female news anchor.
Devolution
Member
I'm not exactly sure where the disconnect is here if you and some others in this thread cannot understand the value placed on women's looks and the dismissal that can happen due to being too attractive or not attractive enough. Being attractive while it might have its advantages over being ugly, is still quite shitsville for women when compared to their male counterparts. Are attractive men at E3 assumed to be something other than developers like the women are? Are attractive men taken less seriously in general? Do men feel compelled to dye their hair darker? Hide their breasts?
Don't worry, I think evilore would be more likely to close the finals thread than your one
Finaika
Member
This is probably because of the lack of women in the videogames industry.
I don't understand why we can't feel bad for people when shitty things happen to them? Is it because worse things happened to someone else? I don't understand.
If This shit happened to a gaffer, I doubt the responses would be this way, but when it's a vague "pretty woman" we're all ready to say she should fuck off?
No one in this thread cried for sweeping change or anything right? Why not just say, "that sucks" and roll out?
Also, why did these threads become so prevalent when I started noticing Devo, and they seemingly vanished when she was banned? People just like fighting?
Highly attractive women play life on the absolute lowest difficulty setting.
I know cracked.com or some site had some article about how straight white male is the lowest difficulty setting there is. Bullshit. I'm a straight white male. Do I get all my drinks paid for at the bar? Do I get invited to pool parties in the Hollywood Hills where everyone is sipping Cristal, just for existing?
Hell no.
Supermodel-caliber female = by far the easiest setting in the game of life.
I know cracked.com or some site had some article about how straight white male is the lowest difficulty setting there is. Bullshit. I'm a straight white male. Do I get all my drinks paid for at the bar? Do I get invited to pool parties in the Hollywood Hills where everyone is sipping Cristal, just for existing?
Hell no.
Supermodel-caliber female = by far the easiest setting in the game of life.
Yes, white is an advantage, no question.
But being white AND a 10/10 female? You basically have god mode turned on.
Are you sure? Even if your other points are salient, I'm pretty sure most income inequality studies control for exactly those variables - and find there to be inequality largely as a result of gender, and not other reasons that create an even bigger income inequality between the gender groups as a whole.
But then you get old.
Seriously... not having to worry about getting laid and having your pick of partners is the craziest bullshit perk available to people.
I get that *some people* with those perks might not want those perks... but you know what? Too fuckin' bad. It's like complaining about been super fit, long life, super strong, smart... I'm sure you can find some sort of disadvantage to all that, but that's because you're an asshole of a human being that looks to always find problems in things rather than enjoy the very considerable advantages that you do have. (Not you puddles - just the existential concept of you).
DanteFox
Member
and you're married to a handsome and or rich man with a nice family and don't really have to worry about much.
manipulate
Member
Privilege is invisible to those who possess it, but will often be resented (justifiably or unjustifiably) by others.
ohgodwhatamidoingpostinginasexorgenderthread
ohgodwhatamidoingpostinginasexorgenderthread
if only
I'm pretty sure if 10/10 white woman is a difficulty level then 10/10 wealthy male is even easier BETTER LOOKING as you age! Women with little to no work, upkeep or paranoia. Even Halle Berry got cheated on.
DanteFox
Member
Word.
And if all you gorgeous gals think being hot's a burden, well guess what, they have acids that can take good care of that.
The Anti-Monitor
Banned
I don't think literature on a very medieval setting should be our basis for real life. You know, since the line makes reference towards how she won't get married.
That said, I don't think anyone says they'd prefer to be ugly. Being attractive has its perks. But it seems like since it has its upsides anything, anything is fair game. And no.
There are a lot of unfair assumptions regarding your intelligence, how you got to where you are, and some really fucking creepy attitude towards one that I feel like some people here are downplaying greatly.
There's a lot of discrimination problems that are far, far more important (the ones all female face, or minorities, or people of different beliefs), but please don't say that people have no right to criticise how they get treated for their looks just because, in completely different ways and in very different places, they get treated well.
Of course on an individual level, if you are getting mistreated by someone, you have the right to stick up for yourself. However as a general thing - will someone please think of the beautiful people! - I don't think so.
At least you'll find very few people with sympathetic ears for it and really it would just come off as Samantha Brick (that's cockney rhyming for narcissistic ) or just plain bragging.
cutmeamango
Banned
You deserve a quote.
I'll just add that people have to demonstrate their hardships as a confirmation.
It is 'hurtful' to minimize others problems because it devalues their efforts on living.
José Mourinho
cocknose
Who's life doesn't suck in certain situations?
I'm morbidly obese and haven't left my house in 4 days but life's still good.
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