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[kamorra]

I'm ok with it. It never bothered me in movies either.

 

[SerTapTap]

I'd played a few dozen vertical shmups on widescreen TVs, black bars are fine, people are friggin' weird with what they complain about.

But, honestly, RaD has amassed a following so fierce that it's hard to try and say ANYTHING grounded about the game.

They directly stated they could do 1080p with less AA, the black bars are totally intentional. If you know anything about AA you should know the extra pixels are almost certainly less intensive than MSAAx4

But hey, why talk facts when you can attack imaginary fanboys. Oh, and here's a dev quote

 

[Jawbreaker]

Is 2xMSAA far from 4xMSAA in terms of quality?

It's noticeable, but they're not simply running 4x MSAA since they have a post-process solution running along with it, so ultimately, it looks much better than a simple 2x.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

NON-NATIVE resolution

It is in a native resolution. The aspect ratio has nothing to do with resolution.

 

[i-Lo]

Is 2xMSAA far from 4xMSAA in terms of quality?

I honestly could tell you. However, given the difference in resolution (2073600 pixels as opposed to 1536000 pixels rendered per 1/30th of a second on average) I would estimate that fair amount of computational power requirement going from 2x to 4x. In addition, RoboPlato also mentioned another layer of AA on top of MSAA. It means that the added resolution would have eaten away at not only the base but also the additional layer of AA.

Also, it should be worth remembering that the engine they are using is in-house and thus was designed with specific goals in mind and may not be as scalable with regards to performance gain or loss going from one AA solution to another as another engine.

 

[DoubleTake]

The fanboyism and defensiveness behind this game is astounding. OF COURSE the devs are not going to come out and say they decided on this "vision" to save performance. Their PR department would have a fucking hernia just hearing someone think of doing that.

But, people easily eat up the bullshit "THIS IS OUR ARTISTIC VISION" from RaD like it's the word of god. When it comes down to it, the major benefit of rendering this game at a NON-NATIVE resolution on LITERALLY EVERY DEVICE it will be played on is nil. I don't care how much they talk about their "artistic vision", having black bars in a VIDEO GAME is just not optimal. Video games aren't movies. I want to play them on my entire screen.

But, honestly, RaD has amassed a following so fierce that it's hard to try and say ANYTHING grounded about the game.

Your definition of grounded is making statements that sound as if you were there when this game entered its planning stages and calling other posters fanboys? Laughable.

 

[c0de]

To me it depends a lot on how good your tv is at displaying black levels. Not everyone has a Kyro so many tv's will display the “black“ bars at grey/dark grey. That is why I think it's not a good decision. My tv is fine, meaning I can live with my black on tv but sometimes it bothers me when watching movies.

 

[Putty]

Okey, then you made a wise decision by entering this thread and leaving a comment.

Promblem sunshine?

 

[RoboPlato]

The fanboyism and defensiveness behind this game is astounding. OF COURSE the devs are not going to come out and say they decided on this "vision" to save performance. Their PR department would have a fucking hernia just hearing someone think of doing that.

But, people easily eat up the bullshit "THIS IS OUR ARTISTIC VISION" from RaD like it's the word of god. When it comes down to it, the major benefit of rendering this game at a NON-NATIVE resolution on LITERALLY EVERY DEVICE it will be played on is nil. I don't care how much they talk about their "artistic vision", having black bars in a VIDEO GAME is just not optimal. Video games aren't movies. I want to play them on my entire screen.

But, honestly, RaD has amassed a following so fierce that it's hard to try and say ANYTHING grounded about the game.

Your non native res point is flawed. The game will still appear native because there is no upscaling.

They showed the game in 21:9 before they were even on final dev kits. Concept art was in 21:9. Like I said, performance was a clear benefit but they decided so early in development to go for the wider field of view that I think that was their primary goal.

 

[Freeman]

The fanboyism and defensiveness behind this game is astounding. OF COURSE the devs are not going to come out and say they decided on this "vision" to save performance. Their PR department would have a fucking hernia just hearing someone think of doing that.

But, people easily eat up the bullshit "THIS IS OUR ARTISTIC VISION" from RaD like it's the word of god. When it comes down to it, the major benefit of rendering this game at a NON-NATIVE resolution on LITERALLY EVERY DEVICE it will be played on is nil. I don't care how much they talk about their "artistic vision", having black bars in a VIDEO GAME is just not optimal. Video games aren't movies. I want to play them on my entire screen.

But, honestly, RaD has amassed a following so fierce that it's hard to try and say ANYTHING grounded about the game.

That's like your opinion bro, no need to call other people fanboys. Plenty of people either don't care or actually like the different aspect ratio.

Its so ironic to point to RaD as having a following since most evidence shows that the following they have is of people who never played their games trying to bash a game that is unreleased.

 

[swazzyswess]

The fanboyism and defensiveness behind this game is astounding. OF COURSE the devs are not going to come out and say they decided on this "vision" to save performance. Their PR department would have a fucking hernia just hearing someone think of doing that.

But, people easily eat up the bullshit "THIS IS OUR ARTISTIC VISION" from RaD like it's the word of god. When it comes down to it, the major benefit of rendering this game at a NON-NATIVE resolution on LITERALLY EVERY DEVICE it will be played on is nil. I don't care how much they talk about their "artistic vision", having black bars in a VIDEO GAME is just not optimal. Video games aren't movies. I want to play them on my entire screen.

But, honestly, RaD has amassed a following so fierce that it's hard to try and say ANYTHING grounded about the game.

agreed. who cares about their supposed intent anyway? decreased viewing space is annoying no matter the reason for it.

 

[Foshy]

The Order is designed since the concept art phase to use this aspect ratio to give a wider FOV.

But you can't deny that adding that black bars improves performance.

Why can't we just simply agree that they did it for both reasons?

All this discussion and the faux outrage is fucking embarassing.

It's a design decision. The devs are obviously fully aware of the fact that rendering less pixels enhances performance. With it also comes the benefit of a wider FoV, at the cost of some screen space.

 

[ANDS]

The fanboyism and defensiveness behind this game is astounding. OF COURSE the devs are not going to come out and say they decided on this "vision" to save performance. Their PR department would have a fucking hernia just hearing someone think of doing that.

But, people easily eat up the bullshit "THIS IS OUR ARTISTIC VISION" from RaD like it's the word of god. When it comes down to it, the major benefit of rendering this game at a NON-NATIVE resolution on LITERALLY EVERY DEVICE it will be played on is nil. I don't care how much they talk about their "artistic vision", having black bars in a VIDEO GAME is just not optimal. Video games aren't movies. I want to play them on my entire screen.

But, honestly, RaD has amassed a following so fierce that it's hard to try and say ANYTHING grounded about the game.

It's fanboy behavior to take at their wrote a developer who hasn't bullshotted their product since announcement? It is however perfectly legit to assume a developer is lying out their ass about the artistic vision they have had for their game because obviously you're a pro-consumer and are on to the ways of the industry.

God damn folks sometimes.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I'm perfectly fine with it since they are actually using it to give a much wider field of view, instead of something like The Evil Within, which was just a bunch of bullshit.

 

[GooWop]

I haven't played a game with black bars in a minute but it never bothered me. Never bothered me in movies either although i notice it.

Only bars that ever bother me are the vertical ones....for reasons

Spoiler

Free Big Guwop!

 

[SerTapTap]

I'm perfectly fine with it since they are actually using it to give a much wider field of view, instead of something like The Evil Within, which was just a bunch of bullshit.

Yeah narrow FOV with black bars is...puzzling. They seem to be fixing the "too much space is just the character's backside" issue with their angle + FOV + screen ratio in this case. Judging by the gifs on the first page though, I kind of assume it's more for looks and these and the MSAAx4 are all (significant) fringe benefits

 

[-Cwalat-]

Different developer, different vision, different direction, different ideas, different aspect ratio.

True. But i personally would've thought it be better to have it 16:9.

It does give this game it's own identity though, that's for sure.

 

[NekoFever]

Not a fan. I'm all for various aspect ratios for movies because they're filmed with certain shot composition in mind, but a game, where the player controls the camera? Nah. It's just imitating movies.

What's more, movies are designed for theatrical projection, where 2.35:1 is wider than 16:9; the fact that it's smaller on a TV is a side effect of showing it on a format it's not designed for. Games, though, are only going to be played on TV/monitor where it's always going to be a reduced screen size compared to the native ratio.

It's not a deal breaker since I'll play a game in a wide ratio if it's good, but I really hope it's not a widespread trend.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I really fucking hate black bars. This is not the native aspect ration for 100% of TVs this will be played on. Why introduce black bars? Movies that do this also piss me off.

I am not saying there might not be legitimate, artistic reasons for presenting the game in this aspect ration, and I am confident from footage that it'll look great and I'll probably buy it (pending first impressions and reviews), but FUCK I hate those goddamn black bars.

Also, I think part of why they did it is to claim the "Best looking game" title with lower effective rendering area and the PS4's hardware.

Movies do this because cinemas are 2.39:1, buddy. It is the only way to display a modified 16:9 picture without black bars. It also allows more information to be on screen at once and is the uncontested preference of filmgoers and filmmakers alike. Usually (1.85:1) 4:3 is only used for budget reasons.

Order is doing this to mimic that feel.

 

[Ricky_R]

They went this route to save performance while keeping higher graphical fidelity. Let's not act like there are other reasons.

Wouldn't they have ignored taking advantage of the aspect rario if they were only interested in saving performance?

 

[viveks86]

Your non native res point is flawed. The game will still appear native because there is no upscaling.

They showed the game in 21:9 before they were even on final dev kits. Concept art was in 21:9. Like I said, performance was a clear benefit but they decided so early in development to go for the wider field of view that I think that was their primary goal.

STOP making sense and DISAGREEING with me. Because if you disagree you are a FANBOY. I'm right because i used entire words in CAPITAL letters

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

It doesn't bother me as long as the game is good.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Yeah narrow FOV with black bars is...puzzling. They seem to be fixing the "too much space is just the character's backside" issue with their angle + FOV + screen ratio in this case. Judging by the gifs on the first page though, I kind of assume it's more for looks and these and the MSAAx4 are all (significant) fringe benefits

Playing The Evil Within with its default FOV was an exercise in frustration, even with the black bars removed. I had to use that FlawlessWideScreen PC tool in order to widen the FOV and make it playable.

Wouldn't they have ignored taking advantage of the aspect rario if they were only interested in saving performance?

Probably, which is why I don't buy it only for performance reasons. Surely they gain some performance, but I think they're reasoning is genuine. Unfortunately, The Evil Within came out before this and (rightfully) soured everyone's opinion on framing the image with black bars.

 

[barit]

The hyperbole about black bars is ridiculous and I think many people who use this as critic have nothing else so far. When the game launches and there are maybe other problems the hater will forget this very quick and jump on these instead. Since when have ever black bars ruined a movie or any other game in the past? Maybe there are two or three games which doing it wrong (TEW for example) but for the majority you can't even remember if they had black bars ffs. Game looks beautiful and your goddamn 40"-65" HDTV will be fine with the aspect ratio so stop crying about nothing.

 

[Jawbreaker]

As for the topic at hand, it usually doesn't bother me especially if done right. Ultimately, I forget that the bars are even there. Happened with Resident Evil 4, happens with movies. It no longer registers in my brain once I get into something. Of course, if horribly implemented like in The Evil Within, I will notice it.

 

[-Cwalat-]

It's noticeable, but they're not simply running 4x MSAA since they have a post-process solution running along with it, so ultimately, it looks much better than a simple 2x.

Would a 1920x1080p 2xMSAA in Order: 1886 with post-process solution be a possibility and would it look better than just 2xMSAA?

 

[RoboPlato]

Made a quick comparison of the field of view in The Order versus The Evil Within

Quoting an old post I made to illustrate the differences between the bars/FoV in this and Evil Within.

 

[pastrami]

After playing Evil Within and constantly thinking " i can't see anything", i'm not sure i like the idea of third person action games with narrow field of views.

I hope you realize that field of view and aspect ratio are not linked. I mean, you do, right? Please tell me that you do.

I really fucking hate black bars. This is not the native aspect ration for 100% of TVs this will be played on. Why introduce black bars? Movies that do this also piss me off.

I am not saying there might not be legitimate, artistic reasons for presenting the game in this aspect ration, and I am confident from footage that it'll look great and I'll probably buy it (pending first impressions and reviews), but FUCK I hate those goddamn black bars.

Cinematography is a real thing.

I'm amazed at how ignorant some people are.

 

[hesido]

I don't think I will mind, but it'd be nicer if the awesome visuals filled the whole screen.

 

[cakely]

My personal opinion: I'd rather have black bars with native resolution (1920x800) then non-native resolution (1600x900) without black bars.

The less scaling, the better.

 

[ClearData]

I thought the bars would bother me in The Evil Within but I got used to it. So I don't mind its use in The Order 1886.

 

[Freeman]

A point that needs to be made is that we don't know what aspect ratio TVs are going to have some years from now, it they prefer something other than 16:9 they might as well go for it. Manufacture seem to be pushing for wider Tvs.

I hope that if there is another game in the series they keep the aspect ratio or else it would be weird.

 

[DoubleTake]

My personal opinion: I'd rather have black bars with native resolution (1920x800) then non-native resolution (1600x900) without black bars.

The less scaling, the better.

The game isnt scaling the image its native res.

 

[xxracerxx]

Black bar haters are so weird to me.

 

[cakely]

The game isnt scaling the image its native res.

Correct, and that's the option I prefer.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Would a 1920x1080p 2xMSAA in Order: 1886 with post-process solution be a possibility and would it look better than just 2xMSAA?

Since you're still getting the benefits of native resolution, it would absolutely look better than 2x provided they're using the same post-process AA that's evident in the game. You would still get less coverage than the 4x solution though, so overall, the IQ wouldn't be as good as we're seeing now. I'm not sure how much headroom they would have to apply the same post-process AA they're using now if they went with a different aspect ratio, however.

 

[DoubleTake]

Correct, and that's the option I prefer.

Sorry wasnt sure if you were aware or not. Its getting harder and harder to tell theae days.

Edit: im an idiot completely misread your original post lol.

 

[Ryaaan14]

I won't be thrilled if other developers incorporate black bars into the early planning stages of their game to add a cinematic feel after they see how ok everyone is with it.

I'll just say that.

 

[DevilFox]

As for the topic at hand, it usually doesn't bother me especially if done right. Ultimately, I forget that the bars are even there. Happened with Resident Evil 4, happens with movies. It no longer registers in my brain once I get into something. Of course, if horribly implemented like in The Evil Within, I will notice it.

Quoting an old post I made to illustrate the differences between the bars/FoV in this and Evil Within.

This 100%, just what I was saying in the other topic. I will always respect developer's vision as long as everything else supports this vision. The Order has shown a correct use of this aspect ratio, TEW did not.
I also think that it was a smart decision because 4xMSAA is a key factor for the outstanding graphics and great visuals are a key factor for this game. It's a win-win outcome.

 

[DirgeExtinction]

I'd love a technical breakdown of this game straight from the developers. Like, showing how the game would've looked being 1920x1080 with 2xMSAA(and maybe with the added AA) vs what they have now. Pros and cons of both versions and so on.

 

[-Cwalat-]

I hope you realize that field of view and aspect ratio are not linked. I mean, you do, right? Please tell me that you do.



Cinematography is a real thing.

I'm amazed at how ignorant some people are.

Well, movies are primarily made for large movie theaters where black bars wouldn't bother anyone. Have you never had any issues watching a movie in that aspect ratio on a 32-42" TV? Watching Avatar on Blu-ray, arguably the most cinematic movie out there, has great immersion in 16:9.

 

[NoMoChokeSJ]

All depends on the camera and FOV. I don't really see the point of it, but I also haven't played the game yet, so maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Phear]

I hate the bars. Couldnt stand them in Evil Within. Still giving The Order 1866 a shot.

 

[Kayant]

The fanboyism and defensiveness behind this game is astounding. OF COURSE the devs are not going to come out and say they decided on this "vision" to save performance. Their PR department would have a fucking hernia just hearing someone think of doing that.

But, people easily eat up the bullshit "THIS IS OUR ARTISTIC VISION" from RaD like it's the word of god. When it comes down to it, the major benefit of rendering this game at a NON-NATIVE resolution on LITERALLY EVERY DEVICE it will be played on is nil. I don't care how much they talk about their "artistic vision", having black bars in a VIDEO GAME is just not optimal. Video games aren't movies. I want to play them on my entire screen.

But, honestly, RaD has amassed a following so fierce that it's hard to try and say ANYTHING grounded about the game.

Yh of course which is why no games support 21:9 aspect ratios or manufactures that provide 21:9 monitors... oh wait.

You like what u like but you're are completely wrong and one of the reasons people are ok with it is because they have not only shown concept art with the aspect ratio, they are taken advantage of it and of admitted it's performance benefits.

Wouldn't they have ignored taking advantage of the aspect rario if they were only interested in saving performance?

Exactly but but everyone defending the game is a fanboy...

OT - It is something they annoys me with movies but after a while a forget it's there so the loss in IQ isn't worth the trade-off.

 

[kpaadet]

The fanboyism and defensiveness behind this game is astounding. OF COURSE the devs are not going to come out and say they decided on this "vision" to save performance. Their PR department would have a fucking hernia just hearing someone think of doing that.

But, people easily eat up the bullshit "THIS IS OUR ARTISTIC VISION" from RaD like it's the word of god. When it comes down to it, the major benefit of rendering this game at a NON-NATIVE resolution on LITERALLY EVERY DEVICE it will be played on is nil. I don't care how much they talk about their "artistic vision", having black bars in a VIDEO GAME is just not optimal. Video games aren't movies. I want to play them on my entire screen.

But, honestly, RaD has amassed a following so fierce that it's hard to try and say ANYTHING grounded about the game.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

 

[DirgeExtinction]

Well, movies are primarily made for large movie theaters where black bars wouldn't bother anyone. Have you never had any issues watching a movie in that aspect ratio on a 32-42" TV? Watching Avatar on Blu-ray, arguably the most cinematic movie out there, has great immersion in 16:9.

I have a 46" TV and just barely realized that The Dark Knight goes back and forth between fullscreen and widescreen. I've watched it so many time and just noticed it a few days ago. Then, after a few minutes, I forgot it happened altogether.

 

[artsi]

When you watch a movie with black bars, do you get upset that there are unused pixels on your screen?

I don't get upset because you can't magically add the pixels to a movie shot in a cinema screen's aspect ratio. I'd take a 16:9 aspect ratio yes, but it's too much to ask.

But you CAN add them to a video game with a full 3D world. It's such a waste to limit the player's view when the option is not to.

thing is though, in a game like this where the camera is over the shoulder, with the wider aspect/FOV you actually do see more of the world, because the player character isn't blocking so much of the view.

FOV is independent of the aspect ratio. You can have just as wide FOV without any black bars, and see even more (vertically):

 

[Shin-Ra]

Black bar haters are so weird to me.

It's mostly ignorance. The same shit happens on movie/film forums.

From what I've seen The Order has a nice wide FoV, especially when not aiming. The high image quality more than makes up for the loss of pixel density per vertical degree of view.

 

[TheMasterGoblin]

At anything less then say 4k, I would much rather have AA than full screen.

Plus, with the art style, era, and type of game, the cinematic ratio looks to be quite nice.

Black bars are just that, black bars. After a few minutes of playing the game you won't even notice they are there (unless you have a terrible LCD screen with horrible black levels).

 

[-Cwalat-]

Since you're still getting the benefits of native resolution, it would absolutely look better than 2x provided they're using the same post-process AA that's evident in the game. You would still get less coverage than the 4x solution though, so overall, the IQ wouldn't be as good as we're seeing now. I'm not sure how much headroom they would have to apply the same post-process AA they're using now if they went with a different aspect ratio, however.

Would the difference be that large, to make the visuals suffer a relevant amount of quality in your opinion?

I'm just speculating that if some of the reasoning behind the aspect ratio being anti aliasing purposes, that if it would've been still a great visual quality with 2xMSAA with post-process solution.

Thanks for your feedback btw.