It sure sounds like he works at NT.
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DmC: Devil May Cry demo out on November 20th/21st [Videos available now!]
- Thread starter ezekial45
- Start date
It sure sounds like he works at NT.
This is all one fault said in 4 different ways.
This game does not have more combat variety and is not more "dynamic" either. Traversal is still yet to be seen because all I have seen thus far are platforming segments involving the grapple... not much different from DMC4.
The combat dojo is nice but the "openness of the upgrade system" was in DMC4 too. You can refund moves at any given point with no extra cost. Style log is not really nurturing the hardcore base, it's nurturing the casual base. The hardcore fanbase didn't need to see which style move awarded more style, it was obvious when you actually played the game.
You are just treading over your hatred of DMC4 again which you have done numerous time before. Yes we get it you don't like it but a lot of hardcore DMC fans do some even more than DMC3. The whole character repeat thing is not an issue for people who have played the game past DMD, S ranked it and grind Bloody Palace. You are going to be playing DmC about 6-7 times as well, it's going to feel repetitive anyway. The reason why fans are compelled to play a DMC game over and over has always been to push the combat as much as they can. We have yet to see how far we can push the DmC combat before it starts to feel stale. People were finding new tech with DMC4 years after the release.
Nero's limited move and weapon set has more class and depth than anything seen in this game so far. The Exceed system alone looks more fun and demanding than anything here, let's not talk about how incredible and innovative the devil bringer was. Do you people even play action games?
If you think DMC4 is ass than you play these games for the wrong reasons.
Canis lupus
Member
I'll download the demo to try it out, I expect to like it, the gameplay looks good. Its the design and new Dante I have problem with.
Reviews don't and shouldn't lower or raise my opinion of a game because they're written most of the time by people who are unqualified, have lost sense of their readership, and are in a time crunch anyway.
The reason why people like seeing good reviews for good games is because of the unfortunate metacritic-focus of the gaming industry... and it definitely sways those who are unable or unwilling to make their own determination, so it affects potential sales. You want good games to be successful.
Speaking personally I have not given a shit about reviews ever since the original DMC3 (and partially DMC3SE when I completely wrote them off). And the only reason why I was wary about DMC3 reviews was because of DMC2. I don't even know what the Metacritic/Gameranking score of DMC4 is/was and I haven't even read a full review of DMC4 (just saw a bunch of 8s and 9s). That will not change with DmC either... game can get 10s across the board and if I don't like it I am going to shit on it. Likewise if the game gets 7s and I feel it deserves in the 8s I will speak up on that too.
Que game journalism doritos pic.
Que game journalism doritos pic.
Reviews are worthless, look at Sine Mora, 9's everywhere and the game is complete junk. But it has that Grasshopper cred and it looks fairly nice, on a surface level it has all the pieces but if you're a shooter fan than the game is just pretty terrible on every level.
Highest rated shmup in ages. Get out of here!
Highest rated shmup in ages. Get out of here!
Did I miss an announcement that DmC is an open world game? Home truths didn't look any better than the castle where you fought the frog boss in DMC4 in terms of layout or traversal. It still seems to be a corridor game (no different from the previous DMC, Uncharted, or Enslaved) in the trailers.
In regards to the NT and the press, HS was definitely not an ~80 game. It was a mediocre action game that suffered from not only shallow combat and poor level design, but also crippling performance issues and unresponsive controls. But sure that is a 80 game. NT's focus on being cinematic has garnered a lot of favor to the point that everyone is willing to overlook the actual game play.
Even then, I wasn't really willing to place a lot of stock in DMC3's reviews. It was only when a friend of mine bought his modded PS2 copy on campus, and we put the import version of DMC3 through its paces, that I was truly convinced it was something special.
Man, those were fun times...
BeautifulMemory
Member
It should be pointed out that ironically that's one of the common argument against criticisms, that the critics haven't played the game. Yet that does not apply to optimism for the game.
The previews have been saying the level design is worse than DMC3 in terms of areas you can go to.. which is basically what I have been saying only when I brought it up previously I was gunned down by a certain user saying that since I haven't played the entire game I can't make statements like that. There is nothing exciting about DmC's level design aside from the visuals. Mechanically it's about as shallow as an Uncharted game.
Which isn't too bad as it IS a DMC game but there is nothing to talk about in terms of traversal and exploration in the game. It's the very opposite of what an open world game is. This is why I said earlier that comparing it to Darksiders 2 is moot... apples to oranges.
Which isn't too bad as it IS a DMC game but there is nothing to talk about in terms of traversal and exploration in the game. It's the very opposite of what an open world game is. This is why I said earlier that comparing it to Darksiders 2 is moot... apples to oranges.
I don't think it's ass at all. It's fine game as it is, I wouldn't call it terrible. But it's a poor sequel. I just think you guys give it way too many free passes for any of its problems on the basis of its combat and fluidity. I find that wrong.
Dahbomb, you're killing me.
I felt the repetition setting in before my first playthrough is up for DMC4. Of course playing the game multiple times is a part of the DMC experience, I understand that, and I like that. But I felt like I was just retreading ground (in the bad way) when going through DMC4, and I finished all the way to the final difficulty setting. Honestly, they milked the game's settings for all it's worth, and you they had fight the same bosses multiple times. Do you not find that wrong? It was lazy.
Also, I was speaking more to the overall variety to the pace of the game. I highly doubt you guys will give this game points for variety in combat even if it did. Plus, the style log can be an asset to you guys. So I disagree about it not being helpful and useful. In the previous games, the style points were crunched in the background, if I recall correctly, and now NT seems to have some bigger plans for the Style points in this game. So I'm on board for the transparency.
In any case, you can turn it off if you don't like it.
Sorry, Sine Mora is amazing. It is alright to have a different opinion, that does not make the reviewers automatically trash. Luckily, the hardcore crew can figure their reality out easily by playing the demo, or failing for a few hours in the cave section, instead of memorizing it once
And here is where it will come back to DmC: when reviewers talk about how great the story is (if it will be), Da Hardcore Man could easily discount that part of the review or the opinion, because he will look for different things for his enjoyment.
BeautifulMemory
Member
Ezikeal, I get the sense from your post that you played DMC4 for more than just the depth of combat. This makes sense to me given how the repetitiveness of the levels bothers you
It seems to me you look at the DMC franchise as an action adventure game...while some people really emphasize it as stylish action
I'm not saying the level design was good, it's just I hardly hear you talk about experimenting with combat. This would also help explain why you are so excited at the NT's new focus on a more dynamic design
It seems to me you look at the DMC franchise as an action adventure game...while some people really emphasize it as stylish action
I'm not saying the level design was good, it's just I hardly hear you talk about experimenting with combat. This would also help explain why you are so excited at the NT's new focus on a more dynamic design
Style points were displayed in DMC4 as well. You basically just attacked and you can tell how much style points you were gaining. Not hard at all to figure out.
Like I said it's a good addition but it's an addition for the casual audience more so than the hardcore audience. If someone actually wanted to know how much style points a move gave in DMC4 they would've figured it out by themselves easily.. but most people didn't really bother. If someone was actually curious they would make a FAQ about it and post it which was something I actually considered doing for both DMC3 and DMC4 but guess what... the demand just wasn't there.
No one is defending DMC4's level design... it's garbage. That said DMC always had backtracking and retreading. The highly revered DMC1 was a 6 hour game with 2 of those hours being entirely backtracking. DMC3 had some too near the end. DMC2 was basically DMC4 level bad of playing the campaign twice but with different characters. Story and level design aside the game was excellent in the important areas. The graphics were solid, sound design was solid, the game play was godlike, the enemy designs were good (somewhere between DMC1 and DMC3), Bloody Palace was the best in the series.
Like I said it's a good addition but it's an addition for the casual audience more so than the hardcore audience. If someone actually wanted to know how much style points a move gave in DMC4 they would've figured it out by themselves easily.. but most people didn't really bother. If someone was actually curious they would make a FAQ about it and post it which was something I actually considered doing for both DMC3 and DMC4 but guess what... the demand just wasn't there.
No one is defending DMC4's level design... it's garbage. That said DMC always had backtracking and retreading. The highly revered DMC1 was a 6 hour game with 2 of those hours being entirely backtracking. DMC3 had some too near the end. DMC2 was basically DMC4 level bad of playing the campaign twice but with different characters. Story and level design aside the game was excellent in the important areas. The graphics were solid, sound design was solid, the game play was godlike, the enemy designs were good (somewhere between DMC1 and DMC3), Bloody Palace was the best in the series.
BeautifulMemory
Member
That's one hell of picture you chose Dahbomb
Yes, you are correct. I valued the game much more than just the combat. I'm not talking about just level design, but the pacing of the game and the overall progression. They progressively made it more and more about the stylish combat. DMC1's combat was pretty simple, believe it or not. It was about stylish action, but it also was about the experience of it all exploring this super surreal setting while playing as this super badass character. To me, DmC feels much more like a call back to the original game, while keeping the progressive habits of the combat focused sequels. DMC3 and 4 were designed more for high level play. It didn't bother me for DMC3 because they kept it interesting throughout. but it did for DMC4 considering how shallow it was. You had this really refined gameplay system held together by shallow design techniques and padding. In a way, it was like seeing the man behind the curtain. If that makes sense.
I liked the combat in DMC4. It was a great and had a lot of depth to it. But that's pretty much it. I'm glad people could get this high level gameplay out of it, but it didn't really interest me to play bloody palace mode a thousand times to perfect my technique. Maybe to try out a few things I saw in videos, but nothing extensive.
Style points were displayed in DMC4 as well. You basically just attacked and you can tell how much style points you were gaining. Not hard at all to figure out.
Like I said it's a good addition but it's an addition for the casual audience more so than the hardcore audience. If someone actually wanted to know how much style points a move gave in DMC4 they would've figured it out by themselves easily.. but most people didn't really bother. If someone was actually curious they would make a FAQ about it and post it which was something I actually considered doing for both DMC3 and DMC4 but guess what... the demand just wasn't there.
No one is defending DMC4's level design... it's garbage. That said DMC always had backtracking and retreading. The highly revered DMC1 was a 6 hour game with 2 of those hours being entirely backtracking. DMC3 had some too near the end. DMC2 was basically DMC4 level bad of playing the campaign twice but with different characters. Story and level design aside the game was excellent in the important areas. The graphics were solid, sound design was solid, the game play was godlike, the enemy designs were good (somewhere between DMC1 and DMC3), Bloody Palace was the best in the series.
I stand corrected about style points in DMC4. Though i still think the transparency is a good idea. That's all I can say.
What's different about DMC4's backtracking is that you're literally retracing the steps of the previous character. Sure it had backtracking of the previous games (finding key and searching area for door, etc), but it was fairly limited and not in the way of just making the game longer. It was more in the vein of Resident Evil backtracking. DMC4 took it to another level, in the worst way. It was ridiculous.
My biggest issue with DMC4 is Nero, that's the main reason why I can understand so many people saying it's a bad game.
But when you're playing Dante it's soooooo good, I actually like DMC4 better than 3 just because of on the fly style switch. DMC5 with that plus more styles like DMC3 had (with you selecting your 5 styles loadout) would be so godlike. Plus they could either improve Nero or get rid of him and give us someone else (maybe find an excuse to bring Vergil back).
You see, I'm not particulary fond of the characters as characters, as I already stated, so I'd be completely ok if they kept this game's universe, all I want is a new game by Itsuno + Neo_G, they could make DmC 2 for all I care, with the new Dante and new Vergil, but with DAT COMBAT.
But when you're playing Dante it's soooooo good, I actually like DMC4 better than 3 just because of on the fly style switch. DMC5 with that plus more styles like DMC3 had (with you selecting your 5 styles loadout) would be so godlike. Plus they could either improve Nero or get rid of him and give us someone else (maybe find an excuse to bring Vergil back).
You see, I'm not particulary fond of the characters as characters, as I already stated, so I'd be completely ok if they kept this game's universe, all I want is a new game by Itsuno + Neo_G, they could make DmC 2 for all I care, with the new Dante and new Vergil, but with DAT COMBAT.
Ezekial, I too value a lot of the non-combative aspects of DMC. I get that the series is more to you than just the combat because it is for me too. The difference between you and I, however, is that I see NONE of those "non-combative" touches/detail in DmC while you think it's all there in spades. I've mentioned in previous posts that the enemy introductions and weapon acquisition scenes are a joke compared to its predecessors. You on the other hand said they look "fine". That's INSANE! For me, it puts your love of the series/games in question. Also, I don't want to hear that we haven't seen the full game yet because what they've shown is absolutely indicative of what we're getting. Yuji Shimomura is not going to all of a sudden show up 50-70% of the way into the game and start busting out amazingly directed cinema. And that's just talking about the cinematic flair/style. From what I've seen this game is missing the point big time in all areas.
Saint Gregory
Member
While the backtracking and that dice game were pretty criminal in DMC4 the greatest crime to me is that they repeated most of the major boss fights but you only fought Credo once.
Capcom is known for boss recycling in many of ther games but DMC4's bosses were so much fun that I never found it to be a negative. I would have fought Credo ten times happily if they made the game that way.
Capcom is known for boss recycling in many of ther games but DMC4's bosses were so much fun that I never found it to be a negative. I would have fought Credo ten times happily if they made the game that way.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
The worst thing in DMC4 were those fucking giant gyro things you had to smack with the Devil Bringer back and forth through the hallways.
I rather like a lot of the non-combat stuff in DMC3. It's the most completely satisfying entry in the series, in my mind.
I rather like a lot of the non-combat stuff in DMC3. It's the most completely satisfying entry in the series, in my mind.
Nero was more fun to play with than Dante. If it wasn't for Nero, I wouldn't have bothered with the game. Dante just felt boring and lame.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Could you elaborate on what the issues with the combat and fluidity are?
Sorry, Sine Mora is amazing. It is alright to have a different opinion, that does not make the reviewers automatically trash. Luckily, the hardcore crew can figure their reality out easily by playing the demo, or failing for a few hours in the cave section, instead of memorizing it once
And here is where it will come back to DmC: when reviewers talk about how great the story is (if it will be), Da Hardcore Man could easily discount that part of the review or the opinion, because he will look for different things for his enjoyment.
Sine Mora is slow, has terrible bullet patterns and hit detection, bad color blending of bullets and MANY more issues. But worst of all it's just not exciting or fun in any way.
Play Gradius 5 and then go back to Sine Mora. It's junk, sorry.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
This is basically my only memory of the non-combat portions of DMC4. And it is a bad one.
How can someone call DMC4 a meaty and well rounded game? How deluded can some of you be?
While the core combat mechanics were mostly good, a game is more than that. And the package DMC4 came in was indeed kinda rubbish with shit level design that repeats itself in its entirety after the halfway point(including boss encounters, which btw don't really gain new patterns or anything), and two frankly underdeveloped characters instead of one that is fully-developed. Dante is a poor man's version of his DMC3 self and Nero doesn't get any additional weapons from the ones he starts with. Really, the "campaign" if you want to call it that wasn't very good.
And I agree that Dante fucking sucks in DMC4. Using Devil Bringer and I-Rev is way more fun.
Not sure if I'd quality DMC4 overall as a rubbish game but it was definitely disappointing.
While the core combat mechanics were mostly good, a game is more than that. And the package DMC4 came in was indeed kinda rubbish with shit level design that repeats itself in its entirety after the halfway point(including boss encounters, which btw don't really gain new patterns or anything), and two frankly underdeveloped characters instead of one that is fully-developed. Dante is a poor man's version of his DMC3 self and Nero doesn't get any additional weapons from the ones he starts with. Really, the "campaign" if you want to call it that wasn't very good.
And I agree that Dante fucking sucks in DMC4. Using Devil Bringer and I-Rev is way more fun.
Not sure if I'd quality DMC4 overall as a rubbish game but it was definitely disappointing.
There is also outrunning Echnida which is conceptually the same as the collapsing sequences in DmC.
The dice puzzle that Nero puts up with, that Dante doesn't.
The "maze" in the forest.
Some devil bringer on moving/disappearing platforms.
Pretty much the same stuff as DmC trailers where you outrun x and bionic grapple to the next spot.
BeautifulMemory
Member
I want to add in terms of combat that for me it's not only about controls or frames, but also the number of enemies present in a fight, their AI, individual or team attack patterns, their weaknesses, etc. this for me is why DMC's combat flourishes and goes beyond just a game having good mechanics.
Would having a more immersive environment help? Absolutely. But looking at the boss fights from the different games, and looking at the variety of approaches you can stylishly approach a combat situation, that's what propels DMC into a league of its own. Sp even though the environment design is often nope than a corridor or an empty room, the magic comes in how you utilize your different tools in a fight. This to me is more appealing than a collapsing background
And this is why I think some players, including myself, find Bloody Palace more fascinating than the regular game. Same goes for Ninja Gaiden and it's mission modes
Would having a more immersive environment help? Absolutely. But looking at the boss fights from the different games, and looking at the variety of approaches you can stylishly approach a combat situation, that's what propels DMC into a league of its own. Sp even though the environment design is often nope than a corridor or an empty room, the magic comes in how you utilize your different tools in a fight. This to me is more appealing than a collapsing background
And this is why I think some players, including myself, find Bloody Palace more fascinating than the regular game. Same goes for Ninja Gaiden and it's mission modes
DMC4 Dante a poor man version of DMC3 Dante?
Then WTF does that make DmC Dante? The dead man's Dante?
Nero's limited combat still trumps most other action games out there. Its not about quantity but quality. It was a solid framework for a combat that could've blown away the current DMC Dante combat. We may never see it now though.
Then WTF does that make DmC Dante? The dead man's Dante?
Nero's limited combat still trumps most other action games out there. Its not about quantity but quality. It was a solid framework for a combat that could've blown away the current DMC Dante combat. We may never see it now though.
BeautifulMemory
Member
DMC4 Dante was so awesome that Capcom gimped his weapon and style move sets. DMC4 Dante is like a tease of his true potential
Yes, poor man's, sorry. Shitcakes for guns, and gimped styles and move sets. No thanks. Personally it's no fun to me at ALL to play as Dante in DMC4.
They didn't gimp it, they balanced it. DMC3 Dante was designed around singular styles that's why Royal Guard and Trickster had to be powerful because they had to pull their weight alone. In DMC4 you have access to everything so they had to balance style as a part of your arsenal not as a major component.
Also Capcom opted for a system where you had the max number of tools available at one time where a human being can actually comprehend. Its not possible to add any more weapons/styles at one time because its already cluttered up as it is.
Also Capcom opted for a system where you had the max number of tools available at one time where a human being can actually comprehend. Its not possible to add any more weapons/styles at one time because its already cluttered up as it is.
BeautifulMemory
Member
I really thought they could at least give back Dante's ground tri-dash without having it being overpowered, as well as the Dark Slayer style and Gilgamesh could use even a couple of more moves. Just a couple
Mentaiko_Allergy
Member
DMC4 Dante was too beast. Distorted real impacts did stupid damage. Having access to all styles created new tech like star rave, sky running etc. bosses pissed themselves at the sight of DMC4 Dante. I did like Nero's just exceed swag. I got so used it i was subconsciously trying to exceed when it came time to play Dante lol.
Exactly. DMC4 could not contain Dante he didn't belong in it. It was Nero's game... Dante was trolling in it.
Unspeakable Evil
Member
What is this? Do you mean buying moves?
It means that you are free to try out moves and if you don't like them you can refund for full price and try a different move. Same as from DMC4 but the currency for buying moves is slightly different.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
I still think DMC4 was a good game despite the annoying backtracking. I'll try out the new DMC demo, but I have a feeling that it will not be as good as DMC4. Not even sure if it will be as good as DMC2.
Mentaiko_Allergy
Member
After the DLC reveal I kinda view DmC as a way worse DMC3. And I get this distinct feeling that it won't even feel like DMC. besides the 30 fps, that's the thing I might hate the most. Too bad ill be in Fukuoka jpn next week. I'll be reading the impressions.
Man. You know what would have been sweet? Vergil in DMC4's engine.
Man. You know what would have been sweet? Vergil in DMC4's engine.
Infinite Justice
Member
So not only in the story but the game also? LOL
*still haven't played DMC4 yet*
*runs*
LightofRohan
Member
Sure hasn't stopped the non stop insane negativity towards it and the people saying it's the worst DMC game ever.
But people have played Ninja Theory's previous titles, and they are complete shit. So it's not exactly a stretch to think that DmC is going to be complete shit. This is a dev team that has never delivered a decent game... not one single time. People are judging DmC based on the developer's track record, and it's absolutely a fair judgment, because developers almost never turn great after years of being horrendous.
Unspeakable Evil
Member
Oh figures
AlphaDragoon
Member
Man, I'm gonna miss playing as Nero. Dude was so much fun, especially the Exceed attacks. And I loved his Stand-esque DT.
LightofRohan
Member
Wut. I liked both their games and they were pretty good. Way to pass your own feeling as fact because you are sad they are touching DMC. Pathetic
You guys really need to get over it or move the fuck on.
I like how people are telling people to get over the changes to DMC but nobody says that when it comes to something like the survival horror genre. So when is it okay to take something away from fans and when is it not okay?