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[entremet]

Best Gif ever. Never gets old.

 

[Nirolak]

I don't get it, what did you want them to try and compete with instead?

 

[sixteen-bit]

Hilarious quote.

 

[Slamtastic]

I don't get it, what did you want them to try and compete with instead?

Most of the detractors would compare DmC more to GoW, as in character action titles where combat depth is (in the opinion of a lot of people I've seen in these threads) secondary to presentation and story.

Which was easy to assume, and might have even let you cut NT some slack, until this comment.

 

[Slightly Live]

Nothing wrong with aiming high.

I want the game to be great even though I'm not expecting it. Wouldn't mind being surprised.

 

[Trojan X]

Ninja Gaiden 2 has pages and pages of combos listed in the menus, and even has an achievement for getting a combo of more than 100 hits, and you're going to tell us it isn't a combo game? And the point of dodge offset is allowing you to continue a combo after dodging, which you cannot do with dodge in Ninja Gaiden.

Agreed. Seriously, people really don't know games at all if they are saying that Ninja Gaiden is not a combo game. Come on now, that's like saying Battlefield is not a true FPS because you can go into vehicles that got its own control mechanic. Get real, people.

 

[Teknoman]

Ninja Gaiden 2 has pages and pages of combos listed in the menus, and even has an achievement for getting a combo of more than 100 hits, and you're going to tell us it isn't a combo game? And the point of dodge offset is allowing you to continue a combo after dodging, which you cannot do with dodge in Ninja Gaiden.

I think by "isnt a combo game", he means the enemies usually dont require that many hits to kill. At least thats how I look at it.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

You can laugh all you want, but I'll remind you that Bayonetta never patched the ridiculous kilgore glitch that ruined the leaderboards, and accessories like Pulley's Butterfly that heavily imbalanced medal earning.

I'm sure DmC will suck ass, but don't pretend Bayonetta is above reproach, either.

So basically Bayonetta's e-peen measurements are broken while DmC's entire gameplay system is going to be broken.

 

[Trojan X]

I think by "isnt a combo game", he means the enemies usually dont require that many hits to kill. At least thats how I look at it.

Sorry, dude. You got it wrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxCRxWVkD5g

This is exactly how I remember Ninja Gaiden. It's a combo game, true and through.

 

[Green Biker Dude]

it's okay, once the game sells the 5 million they expect it to, they won't have to worry about comparing it to anything

 

[Curufinwe]

Haha. I love the cheap 50-hit combo at the end.

 

[d0c_zaius]

Sorry, dude. You got it wrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxCRxWVkD5g

This is exactly how I remember Ninja Gaiden. It's a combo game, true and through.

no wai its a

puzzle based action game

whatever the F that means.

Parts of Bayonetta sucked (the cutscenes), but the gameplay is amazing. My guess it will be the opposite for DmC based on the videos.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

it's okay, once the game sells the 5 million they expect it to, they won't have to worry about comparing it to anything

I wonder what the chances are of Capcom going "oh god this is some sort of nightmare" and pulling most of the planned advertising for DmC like Bionic Commando. No matter what Capcom does, this is not going to sell anywhere near 5 million.

 

[Riposte]

Heavenly Sword had a decent combat system

No.

Just, no.

 

[Trojan X]

Yes. DMC is a much bigger franchise than Bayonetta (so it should be as it has a long binding history whilst Bayonetta is a new IP) so with respect to sales, it will definitely sell a lot more and it will be purchased by both the purist and the curious alike. Even the many people that is automatically dismissing the game (which is ignorant of them), they'll buy it anyway eventually because they are curious thanks to their own trumpet blowing, the westernised graphical aesthetics that is more western style than ever (which is what Capcom wanted because they know that the more "Japanese" the game look, the more likely that western people won't purchase it), and it's a franchise that they know so they won't be taking too much of a risk when buying the title.

That's the world of general western gamers - sad but true.

 

[Teknoman]

Sorry, dude. You got it wrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxCRxWVkD5g

This is exactly how I remember Ninja Gaiden. It's a combo game, true and through.

Hmm...I guess you could say that. Still the obliteration combos are a little to automatic for my tastes. They look cool, but honestly I wish you could do all that with button inputs.

 

[highrider]

this is like mass effect 3 for me. i can't help but be excited for the game, although there are some warning signs. still, i like that moxy i guess.

 

[Trojan X]

Hmm...I guess you could say that. Still the obliteration combos are a little to automatic for my tastes. They look cool, but honestly I wish you could do all that with button inputs.

Hmm. I'm not sure if I understood what you said... If you are saying for Bayonetta then I'm afraid, in my opinion, that's not true. Bayonatta, other than the hundred kick and sword stabbing (that you have to perform by rapidly pressing the button anyway), everything you do in Bayonetta you have to do it yourself. There is no real "automatic" about it, especially when compared to other games such as the one you and I have mentioned, Ninja Gaiden.

It's a pity you feel this way though...

 

[To Far Away Times]

The feel of 60 fps

The feel of Bayonetta

The feel of a good game

 

[SapientWolf]

Nothing wrong with aiming high.

There's a big difference between aiming high and being high.

 

[Teknoman]

Hmm. I'm not sure if I understood what you said... If you are implying that for Bayonetta then that's not true. Bayonatta, other than the hundred kick and sword stabbing, everything you do in Bayonetta you have to do it yourself. There is no real "automatic" about it, especially when compared to other games such as the one you and I have mentioned, Ninja Gaiden.

I'm talking about Ninja Gaiden, where you hold an attack button to absorb enemy essence, and let loose with a really damaging combo attack.

 

[Trojan X]

I'm talking about Ninja Gaiden, where you hold an attack button to absorb enemy essence, and let loose with a really damaging combo attack.

Bummer, you responded before my editing but it's ok.

Ah, understood. That's how I feel about Ninja Gaiden too. Honestly, I don't like the game that much as I found it quite boring.

 

[black_vegeta]

 

[Phonomezer]

You don't compete with Bayonetta because you can't compete with Bayonetta

 

[madmaxx350]

I came in to post this lol.

anyway good Luck NT.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Competing with Bayonetta? Ummmmmmmm

 

[Triple Da G.O.D!]

I can respect that NT wants to aim for the top "bitch" in this case but don't set yourself up for the fail like that.

FREE WEE BAY!!!

 

[MuddyDonut]

Ninja Gaiden isn't a combo game... and it has dodge offset. It's called fucking dodge. It's for avoiding things.

C'mon man if you are going to act like you understand the systems at least know what dodge offset is.

 

[Tain]

So I can assume there will be dodge offset and air dodging?

I really like DMC and Bayonetta, but I just can't care about the whole FAT COMBOS thing. Or specific mechanical bulletpoints, for that matter. It should be very obvious that you can make a better game than DMC, DMC3, or Bayonetta without these things.

 

[AgentChris]

Set up to fail.

 

[MuddyDonut]

I really like DMC and Bayonetta, but I just can't care about the whole FAT COMBOS thing. Or specific mechanical bulletpoints, for that matter. It should be very obvious that you can make a better game than DMC, DMC3, or Bayonetta without these things.

So you want to take out the recent innovations and offer less then? Improve upon it so it does not get stale, don't just ignore it. Just because you are not a fan of the whole Fat Combos thing doesn't mean people who crave these things in Devil May Cry games should be without it. And the whole series is about the gameplay, why make it worse than before? I don't understand.

 

[Black_Stride]

I really like DMC and Bayonetta, but I just can't care about the whole FAT COMBOS thing. Or specific mechanical bulletpoints, for that matter. It should be very obvious that you can make a better game than DMC, DMC3, or Bayonetta without these things.

Yeah, if its not competing in the same genre/fight sure.
If it is in the same arena, then leaving out what should now be staple is begging for failure.

 

[Azure J]

This game's lead up to release is going to be fucking good times now.

 

[Tain]

Yeah, if its not competing in the same genre/fight sure.
If it is in the same arena, then leaving out what should now be staple is begging for failure.

As far as dodge offset is concerned, I don't see the need to take away that particular limitation on the player in every future game in the genre.

So you want to take out the recent innovations and offer less then? Improve upon it so it does not get stale, don't just ignore it. Just because you are not a fan of the whole Fat Combos thing doesn't mean people who crave these things in Devil May Cry games should be without it. And the whole series is about the gameplay, why make it worse than before? I don't understand.

You're talking like a new Kamiya game, were it to not have dodge offset, would somehow not have significant advancements in other areas.

I don't know where you got anything about "making the gameplay worse" or whatever, either. I think that demanding extremely specific mechanics (ones that can lessen the challenge, even!) in future games in the genre is shortsighted. It's possible for a developer (probably not Ninja Theory, lololol) to come up with other awesome mechanics and not go down the THPS route of keeping everything and anything without any regard to balance or challenge, basically.

 

[LeleSocho]

Perfect.

 

[MuddyDonut]

As far as dodge offset is concerned, I don't see the need to take away that particular limitation on the player in every future game in the genre.



You're talking like a new Kamiya game, were it to not have dodge offset, would somehow not have significant advancements in other areas.

I don't know where you got anything about "making the gameplay worse" or whatever, either. I think that demanding extremely specific mechanics (ones that can lessen the challenge, even!) in future games in the genre is shortsighted.

What is to be added then? Bayonetta has set the standard for these type of games so expecting something new from a competing title should not be that far fetched. And for combo heavy games such as this, what else would you improve? Not adding combos or injecting something different into the formula would make it stale. If this game is truly competing with Bayonetta than I expect it to actually compete with it. The areas that need advancing are gameplay and I hope dodge offset makes it in because its a great feature, but if not that, than give me something new mechanically.

 

[Raonak]

Hmmm..... interesting.

I liked bayo, but perfered the combat of DMC3 and to a lesser extent DMC4 (the combat was awesome, everything else sucked) It felt tighter. and there was less crazy shit going all over the screen.


we'll see what happens. I highly dout they can reach bayonetta; It'll probably end up on the level of GOW and friends. i like gow, for the overall package, so thats not totally a bad thing; but I play GOW for gow. I play DMC for the batshit insane combat.

 

[Anteater]

I also didn't like dodge offset because it means you have to know all these goddamn strings. I don't want to memorize anything like that in a game where you aren't playing a real person.

I think dodge offset is to encourage you to hold your combos and try different strings, because now you don't get punished for stopping mid way through a combo and starting all over, knowing the combo strings kind of comes naturally. There are combos that doesn't require memorization to trigger wicked weaves anyway.

 

[Mistouze]

I liked that they're aiming high and stuff but it's going to be hard to shut the fanboys up if the combat system is anything but flawless.

They are just setting themselves up for a fucking lynching if the combat system and enemy design is anything but god-like. It's not like they have a lot of good will among gamers right now so I kind of appreciate the attitude.

 

[Tain]

What is to be added then? Bayonetta has set the standard for these type of games so expecting something new from a competing title should not be that far fetched. And for combo heavy games such as this, what else would you improve? Not adding combos or injecting something different into the formula would make it stale. If this game is truly competing with Bayonetta than I expect it to actually compete with it. The areas that need advancing are gameplay and I hope dodge offset makes it in because its a great feature, but if not that, than give me something new mechanically.

that's... kinda what i was arguing. Obviously, releasing something that wholesale ganks Bayonetta's systems and leaves out dodge offset would be very stupid. But if we were looking at, like, a real DMC5 or God Hand 2 or something, why would easier combos via dodge offset be a requirement? Why can't they do other new things instead?

 

[TheExplodingHead]

I honestly see the story and characterization being the best DmC has ever seen (maybe in any Capcom game), NT has a bullet proof history of that. On the gameplay front I doubt they've got the chops to compete with Bayo, maybe if Capcom solely did the combat and gameplay...but I doubt it. I'd love to see Capcom get back into the game with a real HnS competitor, but they should be aiming at surpassing DmC3, not Bayonetta.

Ninja Theory will no doubt kill it with story, dialogue and characters. So the real question is, can they make this new Dante as appealing and memorable as Bayonetta. I think not!

 

[Mistouze]

I think dodge offset is to encourage you to hold your combos and try different strings, because now you don't get punished for stopping mid way through a combo and starting all over, knowing the combo strings kind of comes naturally. There are combos that doesn't require memorization to trigger wicked weaves anyway.

It's also very usefull in order to be able to hit some of the harder ennemies with your wicked weaves attack. If I remember clearly you have quick combos that give you an instant WW but for maximum damage on say, Gracious and Glorious, you do want to get rid fast of those mofos with combos that let you string 3 WW for example.

I'm a little bitch so I used the sweep on them to bring them to the ground and then try for a combo that had a good length/WW hits ratio to me.

Or the "keep these fucker off screen so they don't attack me" trick.

 

[Haunted]

I didn't like Bayonetta, so even if they achieve this, I lose.

 

[GuardianE]

I honestly see the story and characterization being the best DmC has ever seen (maybe in any Capcom game), NT has a bullet proof history of that. On the gameplay front I doubt they've got the chops to compete with Bayo, maybe if Capcom solely did the combat and gameplay...but I doubt it. I'd love to see Capcom get back into the game with a real HnS competitor, but they should be aiming at surpassing DmC3, not Bayonetta.

Ninja Theory will no doubt kill it with story, dialogue and characters. So the real question is, can they make this new Dante as appealing and memorable as Bayonetta. I think not!

Please stop using the "DmC" abbreviation for past titles. The whole lowercase "m" is Ninja Theory trying to be edgy or something.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Please stop using the "DmC" abbreviation for past titles. The whole lowercase "m" is Ninja Theory trying to be edgy or something.

I'm glad you said that because it was totally over my head, I guess I'd just seen it abbreviated so much like that recently I jumped on board. Noted.

 

[Mistouze]

Please stop using the "DmC" abbreviation for past titles. The whole lowercase "m" is Ninja Theory trying to be edgy or something.

WipEout.

 

[MuddyDonut]

that's... kinda what i was arguing. Obviously, releasing something that wholesale ganks Bayonetta's systems and leaves out dodge offset would be very stupid. But if we were looking at, like, a real DMC5 or God Hand 2 or something, why would easier combos via dodge offset be a requirement? Why can't they do other new things instead?

The dodge offset thing was really a joke, but it was something big when it was first announced and added ways the game game can be played. All I want is innovation in the combat, and with Ninja Theory at the helm I would not expect that...so maybe an aping of dodge offset would give them a better chance at having a competent system that can go toe to toe with Bayonetta. But a dodge offset makes sense for DMC, since y'know Bayonetta was somewhat of an evolution of the series. It just seems like the next step that should be taken since it allows longer combo strings, which these games are about. Now if a competent dev were behind DMC5, i would have enough faith in them to expect something new, like maybe an evolution of jump cancelling combos or anything else for that matter. Difficulty could also be balanced to incorporate the system (Dodge Offset), such as a shorter window to produce the move, or a lower amount of frames for dodging.

 

[corrosivefrost]

Cocaine is a helluva drug.

 

[LightofRohan]

Ya guys are blowing this way out of poportion.

And can't the haters move on? I was upset with Platinum Games crapping up Metal Gear Rising, but I've moved on and will just wait for the true MGS5. Can't DMC fans do the same?

 

[RyougaSaotome]

Ya guys are blowing this way out of poportion.

And can't the haters move on? I was upset with Platinum Games crapping up Metal Gear Rising, but I've moved on and will just wait for the true MGS5. Can't DMC fans do the same?

It's going to draw comparisons because it's still the same style/genre of game. DmC is still trying to be Devil May Cry. Especially with the recent "We're aiming for Bayonetta" bit.

MGS is a stealth series while MGR is an action title.