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[JoeBoy101]

You would be surprised what you will admit to after 10 straight hours of questioning. Eventually your brain just wants the questioning to stop.

Not certain about this, but I think some states have laws in place that limit how long an interrogation can go on before any information gained from it, or any confession, is considered inadmissible. Essentially puts a time limit on the interrogation. I think its around 8 hours.

But to quote from my bad memory Frank Pembleton from the loved, yet dead, TV show 'Homicide: Life on the Streets':

"Did you miss the sign that said 'Homicide Division' when you walked in here? Why would you open your mouth to say anything? There are people out there trained in the law whose sole job is to protect your rights, and if you can't afford one, one will be provided at no cost."

If cops want to talk to me about some murder than happened, they get a few informal informational questions. If it goes past that or we go down to the station, 1-800-Rentasuit.

EDIT: Supreme Court Ruling on federal crimes:

http://criminal.lawyers.com/Speaking-Up-for-the-Right-to-Remain-Silent.html

The Court held that a person charged with a federal crime can't be held and questioned more than six hours without being brought before a federal Magistrate Judge.

Limited to 6 hours, but that's not to say state courts won't follow. And this ruling was in April 2009, so its quite recent.

 

[Puddles]

No, no we don't. I'd definitely be for some sort of compensation though. Say, 50-60 grand per year falsely imprisoned. That'd be a nice way to at least get back on your feet, and it's a hell of a lot better than nothing.

WTF is wrong with you?

No, they should at LEAST get minimum wage as if they were working 40 hours a week every week they were in prison.

And WTF is wrong with you? I've seen you make some intelligent posts before. The idiocy in the above quote I can deal with, but this kind of moronic statement from a guy who is usually pretty smart?

You can't put a price on freedom. You can't put a price on not having to deal with prison gangs, ass-rapings and guards who treat you like an animal. And even if you could, that price would be a HELL of a lot more than $50-60 thousand a year, let alone minimum wage.


This guy lost every year of his life between ages 27 and 46. Those are the majority of your prime years. You will never get those back. He is now thoroughly middle-aged, with virtually nothing to show for his life, and it's the state's fault. Who knows what he could have done in those 19 years if justice had been served?

The LEAST the state can do is make him a fucking multi-millionaire over this.

 

[Gaborn]

WTF is wrong with you?



And WTF is wrong with you? I've seen you make some intelligent posts before. The idiocy in the above quote I can deal with, but this kind of moronic statement from a guy who is usually pretty smart?

You can't put a price on freedom. You can't put a price on not having to deal with prison gangs, ass-rapings and guards who treat you like an animal. And even if you could, that price would be a HELL of a lot more than $50-60 thousand a year, let alone minimum wage.

You can't put a price on freedom, but you also can't cut off your nose to spite your face. I know it seems like sometimes the government has UNLIMITED funding but it really doesn't. Millions a year for EVERYONE who was exonerated after the fact would quite simply bankrupt us, or provide a HUGE disincentive to exonerate anyone. Oh, and just using the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour we'd still be talking $63,510 per year, which is more than enough to make a decent start in re-integrating your self into public life.

Over the course of say 20 years that would come to $1,270,200

 

[MCX]

It would make states think twice about denying people DNA tests, that's for sure. Especially if DNA requests were forced to be considered in a timely manner (meaning not 5, 10, 20 YEARS LATER.) I agree with Puddles.

 

[Puddles]

Millions a year for EVERYONE who was exonerated after the fact would quite simply bankrupt us,

:lol

How many people are falsely imprisoned and later exonerated? It can't possibly be that many. If it is, the system is beyond broken.


ANYWAY, the actual number isn't a big deal. But it should definitely be more than $50k a year, and WAY more than minimum wage.

 

[levious]

Oh, and just using the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour we'd still be talking $63,510 per year, which is more than enough to make a decent start in re-integrating your self into public life.

no it's not, it'd be somewhere around the poverty level.

15k per year, ~300K for 20 years... not at all reasonable in my mind.

 

[Gaborn]

:lol

How many people are falsely imprisoned and later exonerated? It can't possibly be that many. If it is, the system is beyond broken.

I don't know the TOTAL number, but we recently hit the 250th person exonerated FROM DEATH ROW. I would assume the number of people exonerated outside of death row is 5-6 times that, minimum.

Levious - What on earth are you talking about? The Federal Minimum Wage is $7.25 per hour. I suggested that you pay an inmate as if they worked a 40 hour week at minimum wage for every week they were in prison. There are 52~ weeks in a year. In this scenario you don't have to pay rent, you don't have to pay room and board or any of that stuff. You're just given the minimum salary you could have earned from the federal government. So yes, my math was right.

 

[MCX]

If it is, the system is beyond broken.

That goes without saying.

If a state wrongfully imprisoned you for ~20 years, you'd be singing a different tune, Gaborn.

 

[Puddles]

So what you're saying is that 1250-1500 people over the course of a few decades getting paid a few million each would break the budget?

 

[levious]

Levious - What on earth are you talking about? The Federal Minimum Wage is $7.25 per hour. I suggested that you pay an inmate as if they worked a 40 hour week at minimum wage for every week they were in prison. There are 52~ weeks in a year. In this scenario you don't have to pay rent, you don't have to pay room and board or any of that stuff. You're just given the minimum salary you could have earned from the federal government. So yes, my math was right.

so you're saying 7.25 per hour for a 40 hour work week equals 63,510 a year? Please show you're work... unless I'm really misunderstanding something in your scenario.

 

[Gaborn]

So what you're saying is that 1250-1500 people over the course of a few decades getting paid a few million each would break the budget?

Yes, because I'm guessing the number is thousands of times higher that would be entitled to money for being imprisoned for say 10 years, or 5 years, or even 1 year. You can't just look at the extreme cases, you have to figure how you'd compensate the most marginal cases and where you draw the line. Should a person that was "only" wrongfully imprisoned for 1 year not get any money? What about 6 months? What about someone that served a sentence and was later determined innocent?

Levious - actually - you're right. I don't know what I was thinking. I think I accidentally calculated it as if someone worked 24 hours a day - which I actually think is fairer anyway. charge the state minimum wage for every hour someone spends behind bars. So, $7.25*24*365*20 = 1,270,200

 

[CharlieDigital]

Needs to be higher than minimum wage to discourage the city and state prosecutors from bringing charges without sufficient confidence in their case. It makes them think twice about a trial of convenience.

 

[DarknessTear]

 

[levious]

Levious - actually - you're right. I don't know what I was thinking. I think I accidentally calculated it as if someone worked 24 hours a day - which I actually think is fairer anyway. charge the state minimum wage for every hour someone spends behind bars. So, $7.25*24*365*20 = 1,270,200

yeah I could go for that, perhaps even calculating with 80 hour work weeks with a slightly above minimum wage.

 

[Gaborn]

yeah I could go for that, perhaps even calculating with 80 hour work weeks with a slightly above minimum wage.

You could also do it with "federal minimum wage or your home state, whichever is higher" since many states have significantly higher minimum wages than federal law.

 

[Wanace]

You have the right to remain silent for a reason. Spending 22 years in prison after confessing because you're being interrogated and won't exercise that right is your own damn fault.

Still, the justice system failed hardcore.

 

[levious]

You have the right to remain silent for a reason. Spending 22 years in prison after confessing because you're being interrogated and won't exercise that right is your own damn fault.

Still, the justice system failed hardcore.

you and the others placing any blame on this guy, I'd love to see you hold up under 10 hours of 1988 NYC police interrogation, good lord...

 

[Puddles]

Yes, because I'm guessing the number is thousands of times higher that would be entitled to money for being imprisoned for say 10 years, or 5 years, or even 1 year. You can't just look at the extreme cases, you have to figure how you'd compensate the most marginal cases and where you draw the line. Should a person that was "only" wrongfully imprisoned for 1 year not get any money? What about 6 months? What about someone that served a sentence and was later determined innocent?

Levious - actually - you're right. I don't know what I was thinking. I think I accidentally calculated it as if someone worked 24 hours a day - which I actually think is fairer anyway. charge the state minimum wage for every hour someone spends behind bars. So, $7.25*24*365*20 = 1,270,200

Honestly, the only answer to this is "Too fucking bad." If the government had to pay an astronomical sum every time a falsely convicted person was exonerated, it would make cops and prosecutors think twice about some of the tactics they use.

Aren't you a libertarian? I thought libertarians were immune from having to consider the real-world applications of their ideas.

 

[MCX]

You have the right to remain silent for a reason. Spending 22 years in prison after confessing because you're being interrogated and won't exercise that right is your own damn fault.

Still, the justice system failed hardcore.

Sure, but you have no idea what measures the police used to extract a confession. I find it hard to believe that he willingly confessed to something he didn't do knowing damn well the consequences.

 

[Gaborn]

Honestly, the only answer to this is "Too fucking bad." If the government had to pay an astronomical sum every time a falsely convicted person was exonerated, it would make cops and prosecutors think twice about some of the tactics they use.

Aren't you a libertarian? I thought libertarians were immune from having to consider the real-world applications of their ideas.

I am a libertarian and no, we aren't immune from real world applications of suggested policies. Honestly I HATE that there are so many bad convictions in the US. I think we need massive reform of the justice system, including especially better and early access by neutral parties to DNA evidence. We need to phase out and start eliminating or only accepting as supplemental evidence things like forensic odontology which is really little more than junk science and utterly subjective.

Excerpt:

Last year, two men that Hayne and West helped convict of murder in the early 1990s, Levon Brooks and Kennedy Brewer, were exonerated and freed from prison through DNA testing after serving more than 30 years combined behind bars. Both men had been accused of raping and murdering the daughters of their respective girlfriends. In what has come to be a pattern with the two doctors, in each case Hayne claimed to have found in an initial autopsy what other examiners missed: bite marks on the victim's body. He then called in West, a forensic odontologist (dental examiner), who definitively matched bite marks to the defendants. Partly because of the testimony from Hayne and West, Brooks was sentenced to life in prison, and Brewer to death (he spent 14 years on death row). DNA testing in 2008 determined that the semen found on both girls belonged to a third man, 51-year-old Albert Johnson. As Brooks and Brewer were freed, Johnson confessed to both crimes.

The Brooks and Brewer cases form their own forensics riddle: How could West and Hayne have definitively linked previously undetected bite marks on the victims to two men who didn't commit the murders?

Reason recently obtained shocking video from another Hayne and West collaboration that may shed light on the question. In 1993, the two conducted an examination on a 23-month-old girl named Haley Oliveaux of West Monroe, Louisiana, who had drowned in her bathtub. The video shows bite marks mysteriously appearing on the toddler's face during the time she was in the custody of Hayne and West. It then shows West repeatedly and methodically pressing and scraping a dental mold of a man's teeth on the dead girl's skin. Forensic scientists who have viewed the footage say the video reveals not only medical malpractice, but criminal evidence tampering.

Just so you know, at the link on page 2 is video of part of an autopsy of a toddler. There is also a picture of the dead girl's face. It's still worth reading/watching.

With that said, as much as I hate the way a lot of the justice system works I don't think we need to bring down or totally destroy the whole thing.

 

[Wanace]

you and the others placing any blame on this guy, I'd love to see you hold up under 10 hours of 1988 NYC police interrogation, good lord...

I wouldn't say a damn thing without a lawyer present. I wouldn't answer any questions about anything. If they want to ask me the same damn thing over and over while I say "I refuse to talk without my lawyer present" then they are welcome to do so.

If they want to continue to violate my right to silence and a lawyer after that, it'll become their problem.

 

[EvilMario]

Sure, but you have no idea what measures the police used to extract a confession. I find it hard to believe that he willingly confessed to something he didn't do knowing damn well the consequences.

Internet tough guys, dude. Don't fuck with them.

 

[WickedAngel]

I wouldn't say a damn thing without a lawyer present. I wouldn't answer any questions about anything. If they want to ask me the same damn thing over and over while I say "I refuse to talk without my lawyer present" then they are welcome to do so.

If they want to continue to violate my right to silence and a lawyer after that, it'll become their problem.

It's easy to make this statement form the comfort of your home in a non-threatening situation. The ability to reason is often severely strained by fatigue, stress, and manipulation.

Interrogators are professionals. They quite literally interrogate people for thousands of hours. They are skilled manipulators and have pretty much practiced every trick in the book (And that isn't even taking into account those that go over the line and get physical).

 

[levious]

I wouldn't say a damn thing without a lawyer present. I wouldn't answer any questions about anything. If they want to ask me the same damn thing over and over while I say "I refuse to talk without my lawyer present" then they are welcome to do so.

If they want to continue to violate my right to silence and a lawyer after that, it'll become their problem.

how about if they continue to violate your right to not feel physical pain... we're talking about a black man in 1988! This isn't some CSI or Law and Order "heated" interrogation...


I wonder if some of you have actual conscious memories of the 80's. Certainly it was not the 60's, but it sure as shit wasn't today...

 

[jay]

You don't have to answer those questions if you don't want to.

In the legal system, people have the right to silence when accused of a crime.

Are you naive or a cop?

 

[Puddles]

All interrogations should be videotaped. Full stop, end of story. If there are any gaps in the footage, the case gets thrown out.

There's no point in trying to argue against this.

 

[gofreak]

The Federal Minimum Wage is $7.25 per hour. I suggested that you pay an inmate as if they worked a 40 hour week at minimum wage for every week they were in prison. There are 52~ weeks in a year. In this scenario you don't have to pay rent, you don't have to pay room and board or any of that stuff. You're just given the minimum salary you could have earned from the federal government. So yes, my math was right.

You potentially could have lost earnings of much much more if wrongfully convicted.

There should be a minimum, and then it should be topped up per a reasonable projection of your earning power in the time you were kept in prison. With interest, preferably.

If I was a earning 6 figures, put in prison for 20 years, I'd expect a fuck-tonne more than 15k a year in compensation. I think anyone wrongfully kept in prison ought to have a very good case for suing for lost earnings. People are compensated for lost earnings all the time in other contexts.

As for the cost of keeping you in prison....again you didn't ask for that, nor want to be kept. Reimbursing you for lost earnings is one part of the equation. If you hadn't been in prison you'd have made that money anyway. So consider the cost of keeping you in prison as the 'extra' on top of your reimbursed earnings, for the other non-financial damage done.